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How long before we can start celebrating Kerry without the pissing and

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MurikanDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 12:31 AM
Original message
How long before we can start celebrating Kerry without the pissing and
Edited on Wed Feb-25-04 12:55 AM by MurikanDemocrat
moaning?

Maybe after next Tuesday when the 10 states that have already been polling with Kerry well ahead for the past couple weeks show him the winner by actual registration of votes it will cease being a pretense for some people. The argument that only a few states have had their primaries will be gone. (Even though public polls were always available)

And the thing is, if Edwards were on this winning streak right now, he would be getting skewered by every bullshit hit piece people could dig up for the last 10 years, and the same people would be saying ABE instead of ABK. A Drudge piece on Edwards would be latched onto as Holy Scripture, and one on Kerry would be decried as Drudge lies. You know damn well it's true.

I know all Dean supporters do not deserve this, and I wish to state clearly that I think the majority are reasonable, mature and rational. But there are a vocal minority who make it a federal crime to be a Kerry supporter and that's so childish. And don't tell me I had it coming because I just got here less than a month ago and had nothing to do with the past flame fest and have had it shoved up MY ass ad nauseum.

I understand the rules may change around here once the nominee is "apparent", so I suggest you get it out of your system, "just in case". Believe it or not, I'd really rather see people pull their heads out rather than blow a gasket and get banned, no matter how they choose to register their votes come November.

I'm just saying ....

By the same token, I have NO intention of feeling guilty that Kerry has done so well, and I have every intention of focusing my attention on November, and replacing that lying neocon sonovabitch that stole the White House, and not on reliving petty pissing contests for the next 9 months with people who can't spit the sour grapes out of their mouths.

The target is Bush. Ready, aim. fire!

That will be all. As you were.

edit: And even though he wasn't my first choice, I would have stood behind Dean 100% if he had won the nomination, and there'd be NO QUESTION in my mind about voting for him in November.

There's work to do in the Party, yes. But ya gotta get SOMEBODY in the White House FIRST.
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. Never, I suspect
some people will always hate him for beating Howard Dean.
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EXE619K Donating Member (717 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Well, I certainly don't "Hate" Kerry because he beat Dean.
Although, I cannot speak for other Dean people here....

The only reason I supported Dean was that, In my opinion, he was the best of all the candidates the Dems had this year.

Of course, there are many that will dispute me on this but, that's expected during any of the primaries/election that I've been involved in.

I don't believe in the "revenge" voting scenario.

One should vote with their hearts and minds.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
24. And some people will always generalize
rather than using their brains.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. Let's also be realistic here...
A lot of Kerry voters are folks like myself who just wanna see Bush gone. Dean was like the Alan Keyes of the party. A lot of people agreed with him 100%, but in the end they decided to vote for a winner, rather than the guy they agree with.

I was never a Dean supporter. I still think Was was Best. But I would vote for a pig if I thought he could beat Bush. I'd even vote for a guy who voted for the Iraq "war," unfortunately.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I was a Dean supporter ... and a Clark supporter ...
and one of the ones who said I could live with any of the candidates except Lieberman. I think Kerry supporters should enjoy. I'm getting happier every day about Kerry's success. I've done my research and he's taken some very courageous stances in the past. His experience is top-notch. I'm glad he addressed the FMA head-on.
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MurikanDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Yes he has. He has taken stands that were not popular at the time.
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aldian159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. you gonna get it
some people are gonna see Dean and Allan Keyes in the same sentence and have a coronary.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
23. Alan Keyes / Dean is a Fair Analogy
and I am not the first to raise it.
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BL_Zebub Donating Member (473 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
43. Your last two sentences were a bit redundant.
Unfortunately the pig who voted for the Iraq war won't beat Bush. Dean would have. Probably Alan Keyes would have too, if he had run in the 'Puke primary this time around.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
49. Hi sampsonblk!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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legin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
5. That's a pretty sensible post actually n/t
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AnnitaR Donating Member (958 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
7. Next Tuesday night
Either way it'll be a done deal by then.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
9. Celebrating that Democrats
have settled on a standardbearer to face the GOP, absolutely. Rejoicing that it's Kerry, no. You can't expect to mandate unalloyed fealty to the nominee -- and admin, sensibly, won't permit it -- criticism of Kerry will still be allowed.
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MurikanDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. And I didn't say it wouldn't. That's not what I'm talking about and you
know it.
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Shanty Oilish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:18 AM
Original message
Criticizing Kerry
used to bother me, until I started thinking about the alternative. Mindless, uncritical allegiance would be kind of creepy.
I hope that if he becomes the nominee, we can respect the rule here without discouraging discussion.
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MurikanDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
12. Here's the relevant test from the rules
The administrators of this website do not wish for our message board to be used as a platform to attack and tear down the only progressive on the planet with any hope of defeating George W. Bush. Constructive criticism and even outright disappointment with the candidate may be expressed, but partisan negative attacks will not be welcome. If you wish to contribute to the defeat of the Democratic candidate for president, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.
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legin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. Sorry don't like rules
Haven't read any since I've been here and have no intention of reading them either.

Again this is exactly what I am talking about, the difference of personality types.
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MurikanDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Sounds like a personal problem
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legin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Not really
I am quite good at doing what I do best, just as I am quite sure you are quite good at doing what you do best. You just have to leave me space to do my thing and not try and fit me into a straight-jacket.
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legin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
13. The slight technical difficulty
is that the situation could bring out a clash between diferent types of personality. Some people are more team players, my best sport was always cross-country just me on my own against the cross-country course.
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legin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Some people like an ordered existance
everybody pulling together as cogs in a well-oiled machine, all going in the same direction. Some of us just don't function properly in such an enviroment.
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MurikanDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. That problem lies with the person, not the nominee
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legin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. It's like when I worked in the voluntary sector
The first organisation I worked for was basically a hide-bound beauocracy. Every decision or spending plan had to go up to committee to be discussed at least three times usually. There was never any point in showing any initiative.

In the end some people broke away to form another organisation. And we were the complete polar opposite, it was absolutely wonderful, it was like breathing freash air. We were totally un-together, it's amazing anything got done. If you wanted something you just went out and bought it.
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seaglass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #17
48. And in the end, your new organization became a team
in order to accomplish a goal, did it not?

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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
11. You've only been here a month?
Man, you've made quite a splash in that time!

And, as usual, I agree totally with your points. 100% I can't tell you how many times I've said I would happily support any candidate...it just happened that the one I think will make a great President happens to coincide with the majority of voting Democrats.

No question that this is the most important election of my lifetime...and I hope that every candidate can have a substantial and important role in the next Democratic administration. I believe it's going to take everyone of our candidates applying their unique qualifications and skills to help right this ship of state and get it back on a progressive course.
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MurikanDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Thanks, I'm flattered! I'm a "splashy" kinda gal.
Edited on Wed Feb-25-04 01:31 AM by MurikanDemocrat
Jan 31st is when I registered, and I have been reading here and news for several weeks before the primaries started. I really don't spend time posting anywhere else much.

I had settled on Kerry before the Iowa Primary too, and was thrilled with his upset there and NH. That sorta got me more intrigued with the primaries, and here I am.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #14
26. I'd say more like splat
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #26
40. Do you care to expand on that comment?
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. No,why do you ask?
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SerpentX Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
18. Probably won't end Tuesday.
Let's be fair. I haven't seen many Edwards supporters whining about "Bonesmen" or other conspiracy dreck.
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MurikanDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. It probably will end Tuesday. And Edwards supporters have more class.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
25. So then
I know all Dean supporters do not deserve this, and I wish to state clearly that I think the majority are reasonable, mature and rational. But there are a vocal minority who make it a federal crime to be a Kerry supporter and that's so childish. And don't tell me I had it coming because I just got here less than a month ago and had nothing to do with the past flame fest and have had it shoved up MY ass ad nauseum.

Yet you and other Kerry supporters feel then need, every few hours or so, to start a thread like this, which you KNOW is nothing more than flamebait, in order to piss people off. Why? And why exactly are you only singling out Dean supporters here? I have seen supporters of other candidates behave much the same as the minority that you speak of.

If you want to go after Bush, go after him. No one here is stopping you, believe it or not.
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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #25
37. I would like to second the sentiments here
eom
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adadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. A good many
Dean supporters here were calling for Kerry to drop out back in October, November. And a good many Dean supporters were the "fire starters" of a good many "flame" threads against Kerry and Clark.
How quickly we forget what was.
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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Trust me
I haven't forgotten what this forum and P & C have been like. Not at all.
I know what I have participated in and havenent, and I know what I've seen.
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edzontar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #25
46. It often seems that Kerry supporters want to silence ALL voices
Edited on Thu Feb-26-04 07:15 AM by edzontar
Other than their own.

I believe this speaks ill not only of them, but of the current state of the party ----and further tarnishes the image of their candidate, who sees to have a special ability to attract mean-spirited and intolerant spokespersons (at least here).
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
27. ONE WEEK FROM TODAY... (My Best Guess)
And then all the moaning will be about how DU is against "free speech" and how the Nader people have a "right" to speak out in support of their candidate.

Blah blah blah, blah blah.

-- Allen
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sleipnir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
28. Nov. 2nd
Edited on Wed Feb-25-04 09:01 AM by sleipnir
As I hold my nose celebrating the selection of Kerry. Some of us here at DU are very angry at Kerry for his last three years of mis-service in Congress and that kind of anger isn't going away overnight. I'll vote for Kerry, but that's as far as I'll go. It's not just Dean people as you allude to, there are many others who feel the same way. It was just three weeks ago with the poll that showed 38% of DU'ers (500 voted) wouldn't "vote" for Kerry in November. Most of that is "post-loss anger", but there's some truth to those numbers. A decent sized minority isn't going to support Kerry and will continue to critique him until the Mods say otherwise.

My advice is just hang tight until May, then things should turn around and then it will be against the rules to attack Kerry on this site.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. From Elad in ATA
I would also like to point out that despite the widespread and rampant rumors to the contrary, "criticism" of the nominee is not outlawed. We are not going to be banning people who speak badly about the nominee. We are forbidding partisan attacks and organizing against the nominee, and hopefully we won't have to ban anyone to enforce that, but who knows... but let's try and not make the rules out to be something they're not, they even state:

"Constructive criticism and even outright disappointment with the candidate may be expressed, but partisan negative attacks will not be welcome."

Elad
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InvisibleTouch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. And I think that's a great policy.
There's a difference between expressing disappointment, concern, and criticism, and outright personal attack. The former should always be allowed; the latter is counterproductive. (Example: "I'm disgusted with Kerry's IWR vote" vs. "Kerry's not fit to be president because he uses/doesn't use botox" ... etc.) I'm a moderator myself in another corner of the net, so I'm familiar with the tightrope between free speech and unacceptable flaming. I fully concur with the DU policy.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. So do I
I think they're handling it extremely well and fairly.
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MurikanDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. It won't take till May for the nominee to become apparent
I think that will be pretty definitive next week.
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edzontar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #33
47. Or so you hope.
Why the rush to crush debate and discussion?

What is the Kerry contingent so afraid of?
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MurikanDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. Don't confuse confidence or the inevitable with fear
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edzontar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. I don't believe in inevitables
And these "crush all dissent" threads do not exactly suggest an attitude of confidence.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #51
54. God, how long must we have this kind of thing crammed
down our throats?
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
31. Two Weeks Until Edwards Drops Out.
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
34. I'll never celebrate Kerry
and I won't donate to his GE campaign. After all Kerry supporters said money doesn't win elections and I'll make sure I spread that news. Don't want Kerry to have funds for his GE campaign. It will bring him bad luck.

I will gloat as Bush's $143 million is used to show Kerry's "waffles" on the issues and show Kerry as Osama in a repeat of those ads that they used so successfully against Cleland.

Other than that, I will vote for Kerry in November.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. clap clap clap clap
We applaud your integrity!
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Your welcome!
Honesty is the best policy.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #34
44. I'll probably never celebrate Kerry either...
but I can bash Bush with the best. And since Bush HAS to go, that's where I'll focus my effort.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
42. Edwards CAN still win...
But Kerry is clearly the front runner.
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whirlygigspin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. OMG--is it possible?
after reading this thread I just wondered if we might actually end up
with a brokered convention.

Is that possible?

the mind boggles.
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mikehiggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
52. when/if he wins in November
Until that point I will always believe that the Democratic Party will have chosen a weak candidate due to media interference in the process as well as a mistake on the part of the Clark campaign in bypassing Iowa.

Things being as they are, as opposed to how they might have been, I have to admit that Kerry is the stronger of the remaining candidates but my spare time from now to November will be spent praying that Bush does something so outrageous that even the most braid-dead of his supporters will have to take notice and face the truth.

Failing that event, I believe we will lose to Bush once again, and then, with a larger majority in the Senate, the GOP will run roughshod over this nation like a college football team on crank.

But hey. That's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. I'll celebrate then too.
Should Kerry win--and that's doubtful--my celebration will consist of a sigh of relief and a respite from primary politics, since they have very little to do with democracy.
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BruinAlum Donating Member (565 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
55. Whay wait for them? I'm celebrating already. If others want to wallow in
self pity that's their problem. We have an election to win.
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