Another Look At Obama: He's Right on Torture. That's a biggie.

[txaslftist]

Obama: Torture is part of the problem, not the solution

By Klaus Marre

October 04, 2007

White House hopeful Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) on Thursday condemned the CIA’s use of brutal interrogation techniques and said the Bush administration’s reported authorization of such methods “is an outrageous betrayal of our core values, and a grave danger to our security.”


Obama responded to a report in The New York Times that said the administration, while publicly denouncing torture, secretly allowed the most aggressive interrogation techniques ever used by the CIA, including “water-boarding,” sleep deprivation and slaps to the head, as well as keeping suspects in frigid temperatures for extended periods of time.

“We must do whatever it takes to track down and capture or kill terrorists, but torture is not a part of the answer — it is a fundamental part of the problem with this administration's approach,” Obama said.

He added that it is “time to stop telling the American people one thing in public while doing something else in the shadows.”

...

Two things more than anything inform my political calculus these days, our ongoing war crime and murder of a million people, and the destruction of our moral standing as a nation via our descent into police-state authoritarianism. The second half of that equation revolves around torture, domestic spying, national ID cards, and in-general big-brotherism. A key part of that is torture, and on torture, Obama is dead-right. Whether you call it "aggressive questioning" "enhanced interrogation" or a "fraternity hazing" it is illegal and it is a war crime, according to our own definitions of such (as is our pre-emptive war on the people of Iraq).

On this topic (torture), Obama is dead-on correct. That is a big one.

[killbotfactory]

1. Torture is unacceptable. End of story.

No amount of fictional "ticking time bomb" scenario's will justify it. Torture is about spreading fear to those who dare oppose you, not gaining information, because it doesn't extract any reliable information.

And if you haven't read it yet, read "The Shock Doctrine" as it details our use, and our allies use, of torture.

Obama is absolutely right, and I can't wait until he ends this bullshit.

[hedgehog]

3. What you and Obama said nt

[txaslftist]

5. I haven't read the "Shock Doctrine" but am familiar with the principle

It was a Goebbels thing, I think, or at least one of those characters. The idea that you get people to accept the unacceptable by saying "at least it isn't as unacceptable as 'fill in the blank'". If the real imperative behind the administration's championing of torture is the imposition of the shock doctrine on the people of the US, then we are much farther along on Naomi Klein's 10 easy steps than I want to imagine.

[duderonomy]

2. If it was illegal when your enemies did it to you...

than it is illegal for you to do it too. I don't know why the Bush Administration can't see that. By their actions, they've given other regimes an argument that allows them to do the same, which helps no one.

[txaslftist]

6. Sort of depends on their motivation.

If they are using torture to get us used to the idea, then it helps them in the imposition of a terror-state. If their intentions are what they say they are; ie- to perteck the peeples from terra, then it is as you say, ineffective.

And you are right. Waterboarding was a war crime when the Nazis, Japanese, Vietcong, Russians, North Koreans and others did it to us, but it isn't when we do it? A patent absurdity.

[ingac70]

4. Torture is not a "big one". We are of one mind....

No one in the running for Dem nominee is pro-torture.

Any voter who thinks torture is acceptable is NOT going to EVER vote Democratic any how.

[txaslftist]

7. Not so:

Hillary rendered herself an unacceptable candidate for president (for me personally) when I learned this:

Hillary clarifies: torture sometimes ok
Andrew Sullivan, who thinks I'm crazy for being ok with torture in cases where an attack is imminent, was impressed with Hillary's position on torture (which, supposedly, was torture is always unacceptable). But really, what's a little torture between you and a friend:

But at yesterday's Daily News editorial board meeting, it emerged that she's not actually against torture in all instances, and that her dispute with McCain and Bush is largely procedural.
She was asked about the "ticking time bomb" scenario, in which you've captured the terrorist and don't have time for a normal interrogation, and said that there is a place for what she called "severity," in a conversation that included mentioning waterboarding, hypothermia, and other techniques commonly described as torture.

"I have said that those are very rare but if they occur there has to be some lawful authority for pursuing that," she responded. "Again, I think the President has to take responsibilty. There has to be some check and balance, some reporting. I don't mind if it’s reporting in a top secret context. But that shouldn’t be the tail that wags the dog, that should be the exception to the rule."

[Tom Joad]

8. Has Obama (or any of the others) promised to close Guantanamo Bay?

Will he promise to prosecute those who have used torture? Or authorized torture?
this question is for each of them.

[txaslftist]

10. That's an excellent question...

to which even google provides me no answer...

[txaslftist]

11. Upon further review: ABC News from June...

Obama Says Gitmo Facility Should Close
Barack Obama Tells Texas Crowd He Wants Guantanamo Bay Detainee Facility Closed
Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois addresses a crowd of supporters at a campaign rally, in San Antonio, Texas, Sunday, June 24, 2007. (AP Photo/J. Michael Short) The Associated Press By ELIZABETH WHITE Associated Press Writer
SAN ANTONIO Jun 24, 2007 (AP)
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Share Barack Obama told a Texas crowd on Sunday that he wants the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, detainee facility closed a step the Bush administration is considering.

[Hippo_Tron]

12. I believe all of the Democrats want to close Guantanamo Bay

Mittens wants to double it.

[Kucinich4America]

9. Well, yeah but..... HE DIDN'T TORTURE DONNIE MCCLURKIN GODDAMNIT !!!!!111!!!!

Sorry.... someone has to bring the formerly unknown gospel singer and closeted lunatic into every fucking Obama thread, so I thought I'd just get it out of the way. :evilgrin:

[killbotfactory]

13. ....

:rofl: