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One More Persuasive Argument for John Edwards as Our ONLY Choice in 2008

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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 04:56 PM
Original message
One More Persuasive Argument for John Edwards as Our ONLY Choice in 2008
This appeared on Huffington Post and is in my opinion represents just one more extremely persuasive argument for John Edwards as opposed to ANYONE else! The other two are "Corporatists" and are the candidates most desired by Republicans as their opponent. That is... HilBill and Obama are the most easily defeated by ANY Republican GE opponent which has been repeatedly substantiated by polling on GE match ups.

Gotta be John Edwards! :)


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ian-welsh/the-edwards-imperative-
b_b_79015.html

The Huffington Post
The Edwards Imperative: Because The Politics Of Compromise Have Failed
Ian Welsh
Posted January 1, 2008

Edwards should be Democratic nominee because he is the most
progressive and electable of the top three candidate and the only one
who understands that entrenched interests like the telecoms, banks,
credit card issuers, health insurers and oil companies aren't
voluntarily going to make some sort of "bipartisan happy consensus"
that costs them billions of dollars and a ton of power, whether doing
so saves millions of lives, trillions of dollars and makes the
country prosperous and safe or not.

Just is not happening.

And anyone who thinks it is (hello, Mr. Obama) is both living in a
fantasy land and certainly is suffering from amnesia, because
nothing, nothing in the last 30 years, indicates that
megacorporations are giving up any power, even a small amount,
without a fight to the death.

Strike you as over the top? Why then, for example, did oil companies
insist on continued subsidies when they were making record profits?
When was the last time health insurance companies were okay with any
expansion of universal health care, unless as with the Medicare drug
benefit, it was going to make them even more money? And let's all
remember the record industry, who think that they own music you
bought, and that you're only renting it and can neither give it away,
sell it or even, much of the time, copy it for your own use.

The filthy rich haven't become richer than any time in U.S. history
because they were willing to give any sucker an even break, and only
a sucker would expect folks like Scaife, Mellon and Murdoch
to "compromise" when they've been winning by not giving an inch.

We could go through policy positions and compare the candidates, one
to an another, and the end result would show that Edwards is slightly
more progressive than Clinton and Obama: a slightly better Iraq plan,
a health care plan that is about equivalent to Clinton's and better
than Obama's, a much better rapport with labor, and so on.

But that's not what this nomination battle is about. All three
candidates are offering basically progressive policies, minus the big
promise to definitely get out of Iraq post-haste.

And the question isn't even, really, do you believe them, though for
the record I have real doubts about Clinton and Obama. However others
don't, and that's fine -- in most respects its a gut-check thing, all
of them have checkered pasts with some votes that are less than
sterling, so in every case each of us has to decide, "Do I really
believe this candidate this time?"

Instead we need to ask, while taking them at face value, does their
plan to actually push through a progressive plan make sense?

Clinton says that she's got the experience to make it work. Even
granting that being the first lady allows her to take credit, the
fact is that the Clinton years saw the Democrats lose both the House
and the Senate and saw Bill Clinton put through many bills that were,
to put it kindly, essentially conservative in nature. And Hillary
Clinton's one big moment in the sun, healthcare reform, ended with
her being given a resounding drubbing by the health insurance lobby.
She was never given such an important policy position again by her
husband. Voting for Clinton is taking on an old scarred fighter with
a bad win/loss record. And all of this is before we get to Mark Penn,
the union-buster, being her chief right hand man.

Then there's Barack "Consensus" Obama. It's hard to even take this
seriously. In 2007 the Republicans in Congress killed, through
technical filibusters, almost twice as many bills as any Congress
ever has. For the last 7 years, George "I won the vote that matters 5-
4" Bush has ruled the country by running rough-shod over the
opposition party, giving them essentially nothing. There has been no
consensus-driven voting or decision-making in the U.S. in 7 years,
and there wasn't that much in the '90s, either. Oh, sure, I
understand that Obama and many Americans would like to go back to the
land of consensus-driven politics, where there's a center and where
everyone works for what is best for America by splitting the
difference. It's a pretty picture. But there's no middle left.

There's no room for splitting the difference between torturing and
not torturing. There's no room for splitting the difference between
selling illegal wars based on lies and not selling illegal wars based
on lies. There's no room to split the difference between respecting
the Constitution and not respecting the Constitution.

There's no middle left and anyone who thinks that the vast majority
of Republican Senators will respond to good will is living in a world
of denial. Nothing, absolutely nothing, in Republican behaviour in
the last 7 years indicates that will happen. Just as nothing in the
behaviour of oil companies and health insurers indicates they're
interested in "compromise" when not compromising has done so very
very well for them and taken them from victory to victory.

Which leaves us with John Edwards: who wants to kick ass, take names,
and help the middle class stop getting reamed out by credit card
companies, banks, oil companies, Wall Street and all the other
invertebrates whose existence is based on sucking blood from ordinary
people while denying they have any responsibility for how pale and
weak the middle class has become.

Can he do it? Many Democrats, used to having their teeth kicked in
for years by Republican bullies, say no. They reason that without 60
votes, they'll still have to compromise with Republicans and so they
want a Compromiser-In-Chief sitting in the White House.

But compromise, tried for damn near 20 years, has gotten us nothing
but our teeth kicked in, our lunch money stolen and thousands of
soldiers and probably a million Iraqis dead. And strangely, despite
not having 60 votes at any point during their period of rule, the
Republicans got through most of what they wanted.

So perhaps the key to getting Republican votes isn't to come forwards
sniveling on ones knees asking what the price for the votes is. I
suggest the key is to have a president aggressively make the case
that the American people want health care, want lower oil prices,
want fairer credit card policies -- a president who is willing to go
the wall over it.

That's what John Edwards is offering. What Obama and Clinton are
offering is, in effect, nothing more than what has already been tried
and failed. Clinton's experience amounted to, at best a tie, and more
realistically, to a decade where the right wing got much of what it
wanted. Obama's "compromising" is exactly what Daschle, Reid and
Pelosi have tried to do, leading to spectacular failure and ending in
a Democratic majority Congress which Republicans like more than
either Democrats or Independents.

It's time for a new approach, and amongst the three front runners in
the Democratic field, that means Edwards. As with FDR, if his
approach works, he will be both the most loved and most hated man in
America, and some will wring their hands about how divisive that is.
But if "unpleasantness" is what is needed to stop going to war
illegally, to end the shredding of the Constitution and to stop the
destruction of the Middle Class, so be it. An unwillingness to really
fight means that those who will, the Republicans, will walk all over
those who won't.

The time for the failed politics of compromise is over.:nuke:

Now it's time for John Edwards.:woohoo:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. The guy who takes money from Bunny Mellon
:rofl:
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. As opposed to the people who take money from everybody?
There is no perfect candidate, we have to go for the strongest, best candidate, imho. For me,
that's Edwards.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. If everybody were giving, he'd be taking n/t
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Well, there's a specific, logical critique
:eyes:

:sarcasm:Oh, Obama's grandmother lives in a hut and wears Army boots. :sarcasm:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. It's based on his last campaign
and his Senate campaign. He isn't taking this time because nobody is giving.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
30. WHO?
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. The time for the failed politics of compromise is over. Amen to that
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. America and For that Matter the Planet is @The Breaking Point From ALL The Compromise
associated w/ Go Along Get Along Sell OUT politicians... SOLD OUT TO "THE CORPORATION" that is... :smoke:
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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. Suddenly John Edwards is the knower of all things.
uhm hmm. Where was his genius when it mattered the most? I love his rhetoric... dont get me wrong.

He lost me, he had me, he lost me.
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DaLittle Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. No He Just Has The Correct Attitude and Focus @ This Point in History
For Those issues where certain expertise is required he will call in experts and hear them out then assign them to put together a plan to accomplish the larger goal. For Example, Exiting Iraq. :)
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 03:36 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. Exactly, Little Kitty! K & R!
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. well just continue the chain of waffling. At least there is a 50%
chance come election day he will have you. Up that to 100% if he wins the primary.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
10. The "My Way Or The Highway" approach to life! Yay!!!
:sarcasm:

So, if a union goes on strike, should they talk to the employers? Nah, just stay on strike!

Should two people with opposing opinions on anything talk it out and try to come to a reasonable conclusion? Nah, too mature.

Should we have talks with those we don't agree with to expose them and make sure they know we know their bullshit? Um, yes.

Should we just pick sides and do political theater and never get anything done and waste years and tax payer money in the process? John Edwards thinks so.

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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. Bullshit. It's the FDR/Teddy Roosevelt Way, and it is something we desperately need
No, I am not saying Edwards is the equivalent of those great men, but he is the only one besides Kucinich who even has the chance to be so.

You see, compromise is often proper, you are right about that. But there comes a time when you have to dig in your heels and say "no more" particularly when dealing with Nazis, Bushies, and other totalitarians.

NOW is most definitely that time.

And of the "Big Three" candidates, Edawds is the only one who doesn't sound like he wants more "date rape" which is what Grover Norquist famously revealed the Bushies thought of the people who were stupid enough to be "bipartisan" with his band of torturing, stealing, murderign, treasonous Bushies Thugs.

Now, he has a long fight, and a longer one even after he is elected. He may yet turn out to be another guy making promises and not keeping him. But he is the only one among the Big Three who is even indicating that he will TRY to fight for us, and turn back the tide of ruaway corporate power that threatens democracy and liberty. And by that virtue he deserves our votes.

I know you disagree and that is fine, but I had to say my piece to your oversimplified smear.
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bearfan454 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. You are 100 percent correct
Edwards will take the money away from the corporations and give it back to us. He has my vote.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
33. Why do we need him to do that?
You know, if we would vote with our dollars, we wouldn't need such stale rhetoric out of a man who did nothing of this sort when it mattered - when he was in the Senate.
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
40. Don't know if Edwards 'can' really do that-but he is our best hope..
in rolling back the barbarians and giving the 'The People' a place on jury. For me it is a matter of electing a person who is LESS inclined (there is NO PURIST POLITICS-EVER) to compromise, who is skilled in picking the most pressing, most urgent battles on behalf of Americans RIGHT NOW - you know, the Americans that get up every morning and MUST WORK FOR A LIVING, make their mortgage/rent payment, raise kids, have no healthcare and the scores of unfortunate people who are living on streets/shelters/wherever. He is the poster guy for 'pulling oneself up by their bootstraps'. He exhibits the most interest and energy in fighting FOR VALUES AND REAL participatory democracy. It's a tall order, almost impossible to fill at this juncture-but we must elect someone who will get into the ring and GIVE IT ALL THEY'VE GOT. I don't see Hillary or Obama really up for digging in their heels and getting dirty with the horrific, massive mess that bush/cheney will leave at the WH front door.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
12. I really really want to like him
He just had such poor judgment in the past with the things he voted for that I just am having trouble having confidence in him. I love the things he is saying now and yet....A dilemma
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2hip Donating Member (350 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Which of the top 3 hasn't exhibited poor judgement at one time?
Seriously, they all have a bit of baggage of some kind. Rather than try to categorize who's more saintly and/or infallible, I have to ask myself who's more likely to fight for and serve the needs of the people for a change. Once you answer that question for yourself, the inner dialogue takes on a different tone.



        Edwards '08 tees!
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. Edwards CO-SPONSORED A WAR
his credibility is SHOT with me
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stickernation Donating Member (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
49. Obama wants to start the NEXT war, skittles.

"Obama would consider missile strikes on Iran

By David Mendell | Chicago Tribune staff reporter
September 25, 2004


U.S. Senate candidate Barack Obama suggested Friday that the United States one day might have to launch surgical missile strikes into Iran and Pakistan to keep extremists from getting control of nuclear bombs."


So skittles, do you support Obama because he's a PACIFIST or something ?!? You have been lied to if this argument is what underpins your support - do a little research, Obama has zero desire to end any wars, he is excited about starting the next one.

I would love to hear ONE reason I should believe a single word Obama says - not that there's any substance in it anyway.

I am sorry I am sounding so mean but I can't take this myth that Obama is some kind of pacifist, it just is not ETHICAL for people to claim that when he is firmly on the record to the contrary. He is like a Jimmy Carter to me - a Democrat that if elected would screw up for four years, which would lead the US directly into twelve years or more of Repugnican vomit.

-s

- Srini
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youthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
37. Thank goodness we have more options than just the top three.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
39. Tune in to Elizabeth Edwards --- she'd really be the better candidate!!
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youthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Sigh..Too bad Elizabeth is not running.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
14. actions speak louder than words. He has reinvented himself for this election
And I do not trust such a quick turnabout. And neither will anyone in the general election.
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Ninga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. A "quick turnabout" does not give advance notice. Life can be changed in the blink of an eye.
I think you know that already.

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youthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
38. Exactly.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. A Very Long, But Great Post!! Thanks... I'm Too Tired To Say Much
more right now... BUT

Go, Johnny, GOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
16. kick
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-01-08 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
18. Beautifully written and well reasoned.
Thanks.

:dem:

-Laelth
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Czolgosz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
19. With Kucinich selling out, I guess it's Edwards time
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 05:26 AM
Response to Original message
23. This the absolute best thing I've read on Edwards. Sent to all my address book. THANKS!!!
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Hieronymus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #23
47. Yes, awesome, and from a great source.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
25. K&R because it is so important.
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Dr_Orpheus Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
26. Spot on.
Couldn't have said it better myself. If there's one candidate who'll inspire me to fight along with him from day one on, its President-to-be Edwards. Let's return to the Democratic party to a true party of the People.
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Sulawesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
27. I completely disagree so the argument isn't THAT persuasive...
btw, so you are now admitting that Edwards is indeed a divisive political figure, but that is good?
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #27
45. sometimes, yes
The working people in this country - all of us who have to trade our time for a paycheck - did not ask for this ongoing war, and did not start it. This is about defending the people. This is about acknowledging the true division in the country, rather than fight over all of the phony ones the Republicans keep coming up with. It is acknowledging the increasing suffering and despair among the people. It is about a love for justice and for humanity.

"Can't we all just get along" is fine between equals. But there is something that must precede peace and harmony - and that is justice. People who want to skip over justice and go right to peace and harmony are promoting the continuation of the injustice.

So, yes, when a candidate acknowledges the class war that is already ongoing and takes the side of the 90% of the people who are doing worse and worse, and is highlighting the corrupt and heavy-handed ways that this is being effected - that is good. Good for us, good for the Democratic party, good for the country, and good for the planet.

That is how Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, and Robert Kennedy saw things, as well, and they were all called "divisive."
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Stop Cornyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
28. Thanks
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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
29. "The other two"?
Last I checked, there were more than three Democratic candidates running for President, though you'd never know it from reading the M$M.
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
31. if John is lying to us
we're no worse off than if Hillary and Obama are telling the truth.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
32. Obama must be the cheapest candidate to market ever, and his paymasters
Edited on Wed Jan-02-08 02:59 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
don't seem to have realised. All he needs to do is repeat the mantra: Om. That is the bottom line of his message. This is no time to be going to San Francisco with flowers in your hair.
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
34. Edwards had the guts to come right out and say it...that sealed it for me
On CBS news one evening the candidates were all being asked "what was your biggest mistake?" All except Edwards answered with platitudes. Without hesitation Edwards said "voting to authorize the war in Iraq."

No messing around, no the-intel-was-bad excuses, just a straight up full-eye-contact "I fucked up."

My respect for him went up a whole lot at that point.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
35. two kinds of Democrats
Democrats who see the plight of the bottom half of the population as by far the most important issue can hear what Edwards is saying, and know that the very fact that he is saying it represents something very powerful and important. Democrats who do not see the plight of the have-nots and the left behind as the most important thing judge him on other criteria and find fault with him.

We have a candidate talking like FDR and RFK. We haven't had that in a long time. Other than that, he is probably no better or no worse than the other candidates - he most certainly is not the savior that some few see him as, and he most definitely could not be as evil as others suggest he is.

But speaking out with the same ideas as FDR did - that is new and different, that is important and powerful, that dwarfs all other considerations by far.

Edwards could have a hundred times more flaws than his critics assign to him, but for those of us who think that the party needs to return to its traditional New Deal foundations and rebuild the strong pro-labor New Deal coalition - both for the sake of the millions of people suffering in the country as well as for the success of the party - that would not matter.
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. Yes. Now more than ever, talking the talk is paramount.
Somebody has to change the dialogue in Washington. Edwards is speaking the Democratic language. He is telling our story.

The President of the US is not a king, but the President does own the Bully Pulpit. The job is to persuade through vision. It is up to the people and their representatives to act on that vision.

John Edwards has that vision, and it's a vision of uncompromising commitment to Democratic - and democratic - ideals. All talk? Maybe, but it's the kind of "talking to" America needs to end its trance and break free from the GOP's soulless vision.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
36. "The time for the failed politics of compromise is over. Now it's time for John Edwards."
Or maybe it's time for Hillary Clinton! She has the know how and experience in working in the senate and getting things done and she didn't compromise away our democratic issues. Edwards didn't get much accomplished when he had his chance in the senate. We've seen that Hillary knows how to work with the other side. We're taking a chance with Obama and Edwards...but if either one of them wins I'll certainly hope I'm wrong and wish them luck.
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Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
41. Edwards is the EPITOME of compromise politics.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. politics
Politics is the art of compromise. What you give away and what you get in return is what matters.
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Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #44
50. Exactly, he gave away everything and got nothing.
War, Bankrupcy bill, Free Trade, etc... etc...

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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. he?
Edited on Thu Jan-03-08 01:23 AM by Two Americas
More like "they."

Now, the question is this: what is the root cause? Is it that there are not enough people taking the right "positions" on the "issues?" After 30 years, how much hope is there of ever achieving that the way we have been going about it? Are things getting worse, or better?

The root cause of war, the bankruptcy bill, "free trade" and many other problems is the almost complete domination and corruption and destruction of our government and our society by unleashed corporate capitalism.

We now have, among all of the hundreds of either corrupted and flawed or marginalized and ineffective politicians, one who is talking about that root cause, and getting the public to talk about it, as well. It is not about supporting that candidate, it is about supporting what he is saying and the effect that is having.

Being right is the consolation prize in politics, and I am tired of settling for that. Politics is about power - who has it and who doesn't - not about ideologies or being right about anything. Too much power is in too few hands. Until that is tackled - and until Edwards it was not being talked about so there was no possibility of getting public support for it - nothing else can ever be solved.

Edwards could facilitate and support hundreds of new Kuciniches and Wellstones winning public offices at all levels. It is so much bigger than Edwards. First we need public consensus and we need to turn the national political debate in the country on its ear. We have a chance to do that, and arguing back and forth about personalities is squandering that opportunity.



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Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. Yes, He.
The problem with Edwards is that he has never shown himself to be trustwothy. He has never shown himself to be a defending of the meek against the strong, unless you falsely count when he did nothing more than his job, for which he was paid quite well.

Edwards history is a long series of deadly compromises, each more disturbing than the last.

In his entire life, John Edwards has not shown one single act of political courage. He has never actually taken a RISK.

Where in his life is his Howard Dean moment (Howard Dean signed a civil union bill that was at 35% in the polls 6 months before an election). Where is his Russ Feingold moment? (Russ Fiengold is the lone person to stand up against the Patriot Act). Heck, where is his Lincoln Chafee moment? (The Sole member of the GOP in the Seante to vote against the war).

When I look at John Edwards, I see a long history of a selfish individual willing to do or say anything to get what he wants. I see someone willing to work for a hedge fund up it its arm in predatory lending. I see someone willing to sell out his principles and send people off to die for something he either knew or should have known was a lie. I see someone willing to cry crocodile tears for past mistakes, but offer only lip service for future solutions.

In short, I see a cheap snake oil salesman who has managed to hoodwink a few wide eyed people desperate for a candidate.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. ok
You are able to divine things about a person's character that I am not. There is no way to prove or disprove, or even debate, what you are saying - either you do have arcane special knowledge that is accurate or you do not, and I guess time will tell whether or not you are right.
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Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. You just need to look at his history.
What I am saying is not difficult to "divine" and you need no special knowledge.

I have asked repeatedly on this board for acts of political courage from the front runners. Obama spoke out against the war when it was not popular to do so. You have to go back a ways, but Clinton once introduced a real health care plan into a hostile environment. Kucinich regularly takes stands against what is popular.

Edwards has NEVER made a courageous move. Every single position he has taken, was the "popular" one at the time. The issues he's flip-flopped all changed as the popularity of the issue has changed.

You want to try and prove or debate what I am saying, find one measly moment in John Edwards history where, not for personal profit, he stood up for something that was a risk. Show me one time where he stood on principles against popular opinion to his potential detriment.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. completely subjective
You say it was courageous when Obama spoke out against the war. We say it is courageous when Edwards speaks out against the corporations.

You don't like Edwards. He won't get your one vote. So what? Why the obsession? There is nothing here to debate, nothing to prove or disprove - no substance at all, just feelings. You don't like him.
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Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Not subjective at all. Based on stances and the popularity thereof.
Edited on Thu Jan-03-08 04:09 PM by Milo_Bloom
Obama spoke out against the war when the war was POPULAR and he was running and/or planning to run for a GENERAL ELECTION where he has to face voters of both parties. Same with Howard Dean, Russ Feingold, Lincoln Chaffee who I mentioned.

First, Anti-corporatism isn't unpopular. Second, he is playing to audience where that message is WILDLY popular. It takes far more courage for Clinton (for whom i would never vote) to stand up and defend her taking of lobbyist money, than it does for Edwards to claim he won't accept it (while failing to give back over $18,000 in lobbyist money http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?cycle=2008). Selling an "anti-corporate" message while running in the democratic primary isn't "courage" by any objective definition.

If he had not accepted a 500,000 per year salary because the hedge fund trying to hire him was knee deep in predatory lending, THAT would have been somewhat courageous.

However, all you need to do to disprove or attempt to debate is offer a SINGLE ACT OF POLITICAL COURAGE.

One measly little time when he took an unpopular stance because he thought it was right.

One time he ACTUALLY stood up for principles over politics and cast a potentially unpopular vote or took a stance where he risked his job because of it.

The reason you are flailing here is because it doesn't exist.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. advocating for the poor
Advocating for the poor is extremely unpopular - even here. Politicians steer clear of that subject.

I don't know what you mean by "act" and "courage." According to you, Obama speaking against the war as a Illinois State Senator in October 2002 was an example. I don't disagree, but I still don't get your point I guess. Since you are defining "courage" and "act" I doubt that anyone could answer your demand to your satisfaction.

How about this? Since you are making the assertion, you have the burden of proof. How about you prove to all of us that Edwards never did anything equivalent to your Obama example. You can't - because it is illogical. It is a subjective feeling you have and you are presenting it as fact.

But I don't know where you stand on anything, nor whom you support and why, nor what you are trying to communicate to us. You make outrageous inflammatory negative statements and then demand that others prove that they are not true.
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Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-04-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. Advocating for the poor is VERY popular in liberal circiles.

'How about this? Since you are making the assertion, you have the burden of proof. How about you prove to all of us that Edwards never did anything equivalent to your Obama example. You can't - because it is illogical. It is a subjective feeling you have and you are presenting it as fact."

The assertion is proven true by the fact that there is no such act of courage and not one single Edwards supporter has EVER been able to name one.

When you can find one, let me know.




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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
46. That about sums it up.
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lisainmilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-02-08 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
48. Edwards the next POTUS!
The only choice for America....that is if we sincerely want the bloodshed in Iraq to end & end the war profiteers!

The only choice for America....that is if we want Democracy back!

The only choice for America is John Edwards!
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
54. Already mailed in our absentee ballots for Edwards.
Now back to hustling pizza's.
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Tejanocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-03-08 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
57. Kick
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