This was over the line--NO Dem should compare another Dem with Bush in this race!!

[rodeodance]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thenewswire/

January 1, 2008 at 08:55 AM
Read More: Barack Obama Attacks Hillary, Barack Obama Clinton Bush, Barack Obama Criticism Hillary, Huffiowa, Obama Attacks Hillary

Barack Obama unleashed a blistering attack on his Democrat rival Hillary Clinton yesterday, branding her "just like George W Bush".

The cutting comparison came as he launched a last-ditch push to win over Democrats in Iowa, who vote on Thursday in their caucuses, the first stage of the presidential nomination process.

Now, his lofty rhetoric about hope and change is laced with sharp, sarcastic jabs at Mrs Clinton and her husband Bill, who have sought to paint him as a naïve lightweight who doesn't have the stomach for a fight.

At a Des Moines rally that drew in more than 1,000 people despite freezing weather, Mr Obama abandoned his previous timidity and, while not mentioning her by name, aimed barbs straight at the former First Lady. "We can't afford a politics that's all about terrorism and ripping people down rather than lifting a country up," he said. "We can't afford a politics based on fear that leaves politicians to think the only way they can look tough on national security is to vote and act and talk just like George W Bush."

Click here to continue reading The Telegraph.

[bunkerbuster1]

1. It's one-degree-removed, actually.

Jeez, lighten up. It's a primary campaign. People say stuff.

In this case, Obama is simply saying (correctly) that's it's stupid, strategically, for Democrats to think they have to sound like Chimpy McDrunkstagger in order to rouse the American people. If you want to take that to mean that he's saying that's precisely what Hillary's doing... eh.

[Josh]

5. Agreed - they're all big boys and girls

and they can handle it.

[Buzz Clik]

2. Obama said it out loud, and lots and lots of disppointed Clinton fans are thinking it.

She hasn't done a Lieberman-style cuddle with Bush, but she's done the classic politician's vote with/vote against. She now has a track record of supporting too many of Bush's initiatives while attempting to simultaneously establish plausible deniability.

Is she George Bush? No, clearly not. Is she still the Hillary Rodham Clinton that a lot of us used to like? Sadly, no.

[mac56]

3. I'm disappointed in Obama.

And no, I'm not a Hillary supporter.

[jefferson_dem]

4. Do you disagree with Obama - that we can't afford more chimpy-like politics of fear?

This type of line has been in Obama's stump speech for a few weeks. Obama never mentions Hillary...but he would be right if he did. Leaving aside her IWR and K/L votes, her campaign's "roll the dice" nonsense is akin to the fear and smear meme Chimpy rolled out against Kerry in 2004.

[indimuse]

7. hypocritical campaign

Obama has been quietly running a dirty and hypocritical campaign for months. The Obamas will never take the WH in 2008!

[pocoloco]

12. Neither will Hillary.

It's amazing the number of people blowing smoke up both their asses.

[roguevalley]

65. I disagree with his remarks about Gore and Kerry. He can slam

anyone in this election who is running but the old elections and their candidates are off limits in my mind.

[robbedvoter]

6. I agree

[bowens43]

8. I happen to agree with him

On some issues, Hillary seems to be trying to out bush bush. I really don't see how any liberal or progressive could consider Hillary for even a moment.

[Evergreen Emerald]

42. lots of people say that--but if you look at her record

that is simply a lie. It is amazing to me how quickly people just believe the talking points.

[LeFleur1]

44. Ah But...

...they aren't going to look at her record because then they'd have to face some truths that they simply want to ignore.

[Vickers]

9. "Obama Attacks Hillary"

"his lofty rhetoric"

"sarcastic jabs"

"a naïve lightweight"

"Mr Obama abandoned his previous timidity"

No bias there, huh?

:spank:

[Perry Logan]

10. Gross.

[DemKR]

11. another attack

[MethuenProgressive]

13. Another disgusting smear from the he Prince of Sneer.

:puke:

[ima_sinnic]

14. if the parallels can be drawn, why not? not the time to be "polite" (nt)

[sharp_stick]

15. If that`s over the line you should stop reading DU

I`ve read countless posts here over the last several weeks that put our candidates and shrubbo in the same sentence as one in the same.

[Little Star]

16. Totally over the line from Obama! n/t

[MaineDem]

17. I think it was a bit over the line, too.

I'd be disappointed in any candidate who said something like this.

[rateyes]

29. Problem is:

He didn't say that. See post #20.

[Ravy]

18. I think it is interesting that they see HRC in that description. nt

[mtnsnake]

19. Tactics like that are those you'd expect to come from the mouth of Rudy Guilini, not a Democrat

[rateyes]

23. Please read post 20...

the tactics to be abhorred here are those who are misquoting Obama.

[rateyes]

20. What's over the line is the Clinton people taking quotes out of context:

Here's the paragraph in the article in question that huffingtonpost uses:

At a Des Moines rally that drew in more than 1,000 people despite freezing weather, Mr Obama abandoned his previous timidity and, while not mentioning her by name, aimed barbs straight at the former First Lady. "We can’t afford a politics that’s all about terrorism and ripping people down rather than lifting a country up," he said. "We can’t afford a politics based on fear that leaves politicians to think the only way they can look tough on national security is to vote and act and talk just like George W Bush."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/01/wobama101.xml

---------------------------------------

Let's analyze that paragraph. 1. Obama did not mention Clinton by name. 2. What makes the author of that paragraph ASSUME that the criticism voiced was "aimed...straight at the first lady?" (Did the author find that Obama's criticism simply matched up with Clinton's campaign tactics? Hmmm.) 3. While I'm not voting for Obama, he is correct in his assertion that "We can’t afford a politics that’s all about terrorism and ripping people down rather than lifting a country up. We can’t afford a politics based on fear that leaves politicians to think the only way they can look tough on national security is to vote and act and talk just like George W Bush."

----------------------

Obama did NOT say that Hillary Clinton is just like George W. Bush. And, for any person to claim he did is disingenuous at the least, and a liar at worst.

He said we cannot afford to have our POLITICIANS (that's generic) think that the only way they can look tough on national security is to vote, act and talk just like George W. Bush.

---------------

So, Obama isn't the one over the line. Those who put words in his mouth claiming that he said something he didn't are the ones over the line.

[babylonsister]

22. Agreed, and great post!

:thumbsup:

[rateyes]

27. !

:hi:

[rodeodance]

33. get real. Obama was referring to her. simple as that. Good try.

[rateyes]

70. Prove it.

I can read. Can you?

[PADemD]

75. What he said could also apply to Guilliani.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

21. question to most Hillary supporters

Why do you attribute this to refer to Hillary

"We can't afford a politics that's all about terrorism and ripping people down rather than lifting a country up," he said. "We can't afford a politics based on fear that leaves politicians to think the only way they can look tough on national security is to vote and act and talk just like George W Bush."

Unless you actually think her behavior fits the description I'd say its not about her but about how many democrats seems to have voted in the past(i seem to recall a lot of yelling, ranting, complaining, arguing and debating about a number of politicians on different votes by most people on here )

Edited to change title from all Hillary supporters to most as it would be wrong to claim all view it that way

[DemKR]

24. who else would it be toward? Dennis Kucinich? n/t

[Bodhi BloodWave]

30. As i posted in my comment

it seems to be more generic about politicians, not A politician

Do you disagree that there is a lot of Dems that seems to have voted with Bush due to fearing how people would see them if they voted against him

[Kucinich4America]

67. So you are saying that Obama is wrong

And that we SHOULD have another president who runs a fear-based administration based on non-existent terraist boogeymen?? And you're admitting that is what Hillary would do?

[Adelante]

25. Gobama

At a Des Moines rally that drew in more than 1,000 people despite freezing weather, Mr Obama abandoned his previous timidity and, while not mentioning her by name, aimed barbs straight at the former First Lady. "We can’t afford a politics that’s all about terrorism and ripping people down rather than lifting a country up," he said. "We can’t afford a politics based on fear that leaves politicians to think the only way they can look tough on national security is to vote and act and talk just like George W Bush."

Mr Obama is locked in a three-way struggle with Mrs Clinton and John Edwards in Iowa. Polls, which are notoriously unreliable in the Midwestern state, indicate Mrs Clinton might have edged just ahead in the past week.

Bill Clinton, now campaigning in Iowa for his wife every day, has raised the spectre of another September 11 style attack and stated that only Mrs Clinton had the experience to deal with a terrorist atrocity.

Mr Obama blasted back by suggesting that this was reminiscent of the tactics of Mr Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney in 2004 and amounted to "using 9/11 as a way to scare up votes".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/01/wobama101.xml


This is a Democratic primary, rough and tumble, not a pillow fight.

[flvegan]

26. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

[rateyes]

28. It's Denny Hastert. nt

[Cameron27]

32. ?

You can't possibly be talking about one of our Democratic candidates. Especially not Hillary Clinton, since her voting record is liberal and is almost indistinguishable from anyone else running.

[rodeodance]

31. Topic subject Obama really has to stop talking out of his ass.

Forum Name General Discussion
Topic subject Obama really has to stop talking out of his ass.
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2565924#2565924
2565924, Obama really has to stop talking out of his ass.
Posted by trumad on Tue Jan-01-08 09:02 AM

His latest:

In a speech this afternoon in central Iowa, Barack Obama seems to have widened his criticism of the politics of the past to encompass not only Hillary Clinton but John Kerry and Nobel Laureate Al Gore.

Making an argument for his electability, Obama said, "I don't want to go into the next election starting off with half the country already not wanting to vote for Democrats -- we've done that in 2004, 2000," according to a person at the event (rush transcript).
http://weblogs.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/politics/blog/2007/12/obama_gore_kerry_alienated_hal.html

Um--- Gore got about 544,000 more votes than Bush in 2000.

[Cameron27]

35. He lost my vote over his handling of the McClurkin

situation, but I agree with you, no Democrat should smear another one by comparing them to a RWinger.

[Kucinich4America]

69. How about calling up a (nominally) left of center talk show and calling Obama a "Black Muslim"??

A professional Hillbot did exactly that this morning on the Ed Schultz show.

[Skip Intro]

61. too late.

[sniffa]

34. he is correct

and my god, everything is over the line on DU it seems. :eyes:

[Cameron27]

36. How is he correct?

What's different about his votes compared to any of his rivals? What's bush-like about any of his rival's platforms?

[JDPriestly]

37. One thing is certain. No one will say Edwards is like GWB.

They could not be more different. Maybe that is why I like Edwards so much.

[Cameron27]

39. Oh really?

His voting record isn't so very different from Obama or Clinton's, and is in fact to the right of Clinton on votes relating to Iraq. And he didn't take any lobbyist money to get to the senate, but still voted for things like yucca mtn., the bankrupcy bill, the china trade deal, H1-B visas and of course he co-sponsored the IWR.

[BootinUp]

38. The voters will decide that. nt

[LeftCoast]

40. This is going to lose him votes

I disagree with this strategy and I think it's going to hurt him. I guess the results of the caucuses will tell if I'm right or not.

[Cameron27]

41. What's dangerous about comparing any Democrat to Bush

in the primaries, is the fact that he's blurring the lines of attacks that our Democratic nominee will use in the general. We need to keep the distance and differences between Bush and our guys clear.

[LeftCoast]

43. True

And despite what a lot of people say around here, I think it's patently wrong to say that any of our candidates are anything like bush.

[Cameron27]

45. I absolutely agree,

even my least favorite isn't comparable to bush.

[Imagevision]

46. Look at Hillary's papers/records, oops, she won't produce them while blaming others

[Cameron27]

49. Where are Obama's papers/records

oops, they were destroyed.

[hedgehog]

47. Now me, I keep getting reminded of Dick Nixon

In 1960, Nixon campaigned in all 50 states. The last dew weeks, CLinton made a big deal of campaigning in every county in Iowa.

Nixon made a big deal about risking his life by going to negotiate a peace deal in Egypt when he had phlebitis (no mention of the NAvy hospital ship in the harbor). This week, we were reminded of how Hillary risked her life to go to Bosnia (with Chelsea, Sheryl Crow and Sinbad).

Nixon made a big deal about how much more experience he had as Eisenhower's VP and how he had represented this country abroad. His opponent was a young, inexperienced Senator. Clinton......

[sniffa]

48. hmm

do you think it has anything with her supporting Nixon back then? :think:

[Cameron27]

51. Nixon made a big deal over the fact

that his wife only wore a cloth coat, isn't that a more "populist" message than Clinton's? Good grief, stick the issues, lame comparisons can be made between all of them.

[napi21]

50. All along I've said the 2 front runners will destroy each other and someone

else will win. IF it's true that Iowans don't like dirty or nasty, I well could be proven right in two days. Well see.

[hedgehog]

52. Only if Iowans prefer the snark......

An attack is still an attack, even if it's subtle.

And please, an attack does not always equal mudslinging.

[killbotfactory]

53. Is it fun to take things so far out of context? nt

[gulliver]

54. Sets Obama up for a big backfire in the caucuses. Foolish, IMO.

By example, Obama is setting up his supporters to repeat the same line in the Iowa caucuses. If some arbitrary Obama supporter spouts off the "just like George W. Bush" line, they are going to get booed out the door. There is no question in my mind that it will be perceived by most Dems as crossing the line in a face-to-face situation.

[hedgehog]

55. If the criticism of Clinton is perceived as valid, this statement will fly.

If it is invalid, then it will vanish.

[sampsonblk]

56. rodeodance , that's not out of bounds

Not even a low blow.

[rodeodance]

73. well, I disagree.

[Infinite Hope]

57. In some ways she is like Bush.

Looks like 2 Democrats have said it. Though tens of thousands have said it over the last year. It's why Hillary's support among Democrats has a ceiling.

[Cameron27]

59. She's nothing like bush,

and no Democrat should say it.

[Skip Intro]

63. How, please, is she like bush?

[Major Hogwash]

58. If the shoe up her ass fits - then she's got to wear it!

The problem with people who can't see the similarity between Bush and Hillary is that they have never served in the military.

They can't see what a warmonger Hillary actually is in real life!

[Skip Intro]

60. "We can't afford...ripping people down" - Obama is the ultimate hypcrite.

Thank God people seem to be waking up to his bullshit.

[peoli]

62. While not mentioning her name

He has been saying we cant afford to vote like George Bush republicans for MONTHS. Now all of a sudden hes calling her Goerge Bush?
More Clinton bullshit.

[CyberPieHole]

64. Obama has the intellect of Bush, but, none of his charm....

an Obama presidency would be no better than what Americans have been forced to endure for the last 7 years.

[dogishboy]

66. It's obvious that Obama will say and do anything to win

Sound familiar?

[ecstatic]

68. The writer of the article, by assuming Obama's referring to Clinton, does more harm

to Clinton than Obama ever could. Am I the only one who notices these faux-outrage pieces are truly stealth attacks against the very person they claim to be defending?

[bunnies]

71. Thats funny. I dont see him reference HRC anywhere in this quote. nt

[tammywammy]

72. He didn't mention any politican by name

Why do Hillary supporters assume he was talking about her?

[Hippo_Tron]

74. Clinton supporters are on the defense because they're worried it's true

He didn't mention the word "Clinton" once in that speech. Fortunately she is smarter than some of her supporters here not to take the bait.