I'm really hoping that a feud isn't developing between Biden/Edwards supporters...

[FlyingSquirrel]

Somewhat like the feud between Clinton/Obama supporters that has turned me off to both. Negativity doesn't work well for me. I'm a Washington voter who WILL be participating in the caucuses, and there's a good chance that Biden will still be in the race at that point (4 days after "Super Tuesday"). It's almost certain that he'll be in the race on Super Tuesday. I've noticed that a lot of Edwards supporters also like Biden (not sure whether the opposite is true?) and I know I'm not the only voter that gets turned off by negativity.

Just for the record, a few hours ago I had tilted toward Biden and now a couple of prolific Biden supporters, through their negativity directed toward Edwards, have moved me back into the Edwards camp. Won't name names. But those who support Biden and are currently engaged in anti-Edwards attacks (there aren't many Bidenites doing this but the ones who ARE are quite obnoxious to me) might want to re-think their strategy if they are hoping to sway people's opinions who have a good chance of moving into their camp.

Attacking Edwards is not the right way to get people to support Biden.

[Joe the Revelator]

1. Obama/Biden will save the country

Nt

[Ravy]

30. I don't think you will see two sitting senators at the top of the ticket.

It is very tough to win with one, and if they do, putting two seats up for grabs in the Senate may not be the way to get an agenda passed.

[last1standing]

2. I think I know who you're talking about and I agree.

However, although I support Edwards strongly, I still think you (and everyone else) should stand up and vote for the person you feel best represents your views. For me that's Edwards - you need to make your own decision. Good luck and happy New Year. :)

[FlyingSquirrel]

8. I will...

But if I am torn between two candidates, negativity can turn me away from one and towards the other.

[last1standing]

13. You know none of actual candidates would support the hatemongers here.

That includes Edwards, Obama, Clinton, Biden, Kucinich, Dodd and Richardson. None of them are actually bad people, whether we agree with everything they say or not. They don't support the kind of petty, hateful slurs and hatefulness because they know it doesn't help their campaigns. The people doing it are just frustrated individuals who don't know how to express themselves in a socially acceptable manner. Don't take that out on any of the Dem candidates.

[FlyingSquirrel]

14. You're right.. I'll try not to.

In the end it all comes down to who makes the most persuasive argument for their candidate. And of course which candidate makes the most persuasive argument for him/herself.

(And facts. Facts are nice.)

:patriot:

[last1standing]

15. That's exactly how it should be.

For me the the best candidate this time is Edwards, for you it may be different. Any way you decide I hope you the best.

Happy New Year. :)

[sandnsea]

3. It always happens

Whoever the top 2 are will pitch battles. A lot of the early garbage slung at Obama came from Edwards supporters who thought it helped him to keep Obama down. Then Kucinich people feel left out, I guess, and jump in on the mudslinging for no apparent reason. There's no way you can be a top candidate and not have people sling garbage. You can't just sit back and let lies go unanswered, etc.

[FlyingSquirrel]

10. I agree that you can't sit back and let lies go unanswered.

And I understand that attacks are a part of the process. I just think a bit of civility is required when making an allegation against a candidate, and that you can make your argument without being nasty (toward the candidate or the candidate's supporters).

[Adelante]

37. Edwards supporters want civility for Edwards

Without being especially civil about other candidates. This isn't true of every one, of course, but it is certainly true of many. Any criticism of Edwards is considered a smear on Edwards and receives utter condemnation, name-calling, derision and concerted diversion of the thread topic, whether it's a thread about true charges or false charges. It's been so all along. That said, other supporter groups have members who do the same and are as nasty. But to hold that behavior against a candidate makes no sense at all. If you are going to change candidates based on that reason, really, you would do better to sit out the primaries and get back in for the nominee. That's what I would do.

[1corona4u]

43. Well said WesDem.

:toast:

[gmudem]

72. oh please

Anybody who says anything about Clinton is accused of being a disgusting sexist who shouldn't even be allowed to vote. And I'm an Edwards supporter who has Biden as my 2nd choice, so I certainly have no interest in attacking him.

[Froward69]

4. Edwards simply needs to tell the

whole truth. and actually stay with one position on a given subject. pointing out the differences between what edwards says and what is on his website, pisses people off and puts me on their "ignore list" fine. it goes to show how unwilling they are to accept the truth. and or to be informed.

Biden has done a few things in his LONG Senate career that I do not agree with. I did not ignore it, nor deny it. I accepted it, realizing Biden is the best possible President we all can hope for this time around.

isolating oneself from the truth, is just as ignorant as being republican.

[BringBigDogBack]

6. "isolating oneself from the truth, is just as ignorant as being republican."

Well stated.

[FlyingSquirrel]

9. Attacking Edwards' supporters by painting them with a broad brush is even worse

than attacking Edwards. Especially accusing them of being ignorant or unwilling to accept "the truth".

eom

[Froward69]

17. uh re read my post

I simply stated ANYONE who isolates themselves is ignorant. I would be too if I were to deny any flaw in my candidate.

[silverojo]

12. Here's what it all boils down to.

You either care about the working class poor, or you don't. If you don't, you support Biden because you think foreign policy is more important than people who go hungry right here in America.

There's no way you can care about the poor and working classes, and not be moved by what John Edwards talks about, and has worked for, since he was a trial lawyer fighting for innocent victims.

Edwards bashers can dance around the topic all they like, but this is the cold, hard truth about why they don't support John Edwards.

I'm not sure where Kucinich stands on poverty issues, but my guess is that he'd be second-best in this category. It's just that he's not a viable candidate at this point in time.

[Froward69]

18. !!!

"You either care about the working class poor, or you don't. If you don't, you support Biden because you think foreign policy is more important than people who go hungry right here in America."

they go hand in hand. and edwards is working poor? edwards is far wealthier than Biden. hell look at their respective health care proposals. edwards is for Mandatory Health insurance. he says otherwise but actually read his website. where as Biden is for Universal Health care, Big diffrence. Joe Biden realizes forcing the poor to buy insurance is not Helping anyone but Insurance companies.

[Clark2008]

29. Utter garbage.

Some of us have been championing anti-corporatist society for years and think Edwards is full of shit.

His record doesn't match his rhetoric.

I care about the working poor and I DO NOT support that Iraqi War sponsoring, PATRIOT Act writing, bankruptcy bill voting, perennial candidate Edwards.

[1corona4u]

32. That's utter nonsense...

all of it.

[Adelante]

38. Oh. Christ.

I'm so sick of this song and dance :nopity:

Were you born yesterday?

[1corona4u]

31. Psssttt....

[Adelante]

39. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

:rofl:

[Froward69]

53. my tummy hurts from laughing...

[lisainmilo]

5. Well put....thanks!

:)

[JDPriestly]

7. I am an Edwards supporter.

I previously liked all the candidates except Hillary. She is too corporatist for me.

The anti-Edwards posts by Biden and Obama supporters really turns me off to those candidates.

And it is a shame because Obama and Edwards agree on many issues, especially on the really important things. Although, being older I am concerned about whether Obama will really carry through on the government's obligations on Social Security.

As for Biden, I think he has a great understanding of international issues.

In any normal primary year, any one of the candidates this year would be so outstanding, they would win. This year, it has been quite challenging to pick your candidate. It took me a long time and a lot of study and investigation to choose Edwards. I can imagine that those who chose other candidates also thought long and hard. I respect their decisions, although I really don't like Hillary.

The nasty comments from Biden and Obama supporters are likely to be on my mind should one of them win. Normally I work would work hard for the Democratic candidate even if he or she was not my first choice, but, honestly, the nasty comments here make me question whether I will just not go to the trouble this me. I will not work if Hillary is the candidate, but Obama was, until this spurt of nastiness toward Edwards, my second choice and a close one at that. I also liked Biden very much.

OK so to stop being verbose. In one word, stop the negativity toward other people's candidates. We don't know who will win the nomination, and we all need to be on the same side in the end -- or else we will lose as usual.

[melody]

11. Some of the most inane, puerile attacks have come from Biden supporters on this board

I am an Edwards supporter. The Obama and Clinton camps are tough but they don't go to the nonsensical proportions
a number of the Biden people do. I suspect the actual Biden camp has a couple of people under numerous IDs, which
is why the viciousness seems to pointed and widespread. They ought to consider how well this reflects on their candidate.

[1corona4u]

33. Perhaps you should have a talk with the rest of the JE supporters...

you have some bad apples on your team too...

[Forkboy]

75. I like Edwards more than Biden but the Edwards camp has been much worse than Biden's.

:shrug:

[murbley40]

77. Thank you!

[gateley]

16. I don't want a feud between Biden supporters and ANY other supporters!

We're all in this together -- we all want what's best for our country and for the world -- we're all good people.

:grouphug:

[PatSeg]

19. I second that

I know some people get carried away, but that does not reflect the general attitude of Biden supporters. I apologize. Please don't judge us all by the behavior of a few.

[FlyingSquirrel]

21. Thanks u2

Still have your candidate very much in mind.

FS

[medicswife]

26. Me either

In my honest opinion, any of those in the ring would make a hell of a lot better President than Bush, or any of the Republican's in the race. I just believe Sen. Biden to be the most qualified, believe that he has stuck his neck out to protect our troops, and believe that he would be our strongest contender in the General Election. I also am blown away by his integrity. Most Politicians end up breaking promises eventually, Sen. Biden keeps his word.

[mrigirl]

59. I am a Biden supporter and don't even know who's attacking Edwards supporters.

Maybe I don't come on here enough to see it. I thought we were above that!

[KaptBunnyPants]

20. I can think of at least one person your referring to.

And you're right. It's amazing how one or a few petulant supporters can generate hostility toward a candidate. If Biden were more of a threat to the other candidates, I'd think they were operatives from an opposing camp intentionally trying to sabotage his campaign.

[Eurobabe]

22. My primary vote is going to Biden, IF...

he decides to stay in the race through the beginning of February when the DemsAbroad primary takes place.

I am really undecided between Obama and Edwards as my second choice. Supporters of 'she who will be queen'on DU have completely turned me off to Candidate X. I just can't get past it, so I know what you mean.

:hi:

[livvy]

23. Attacking the other candidates or their supporters doesn't work for me either.

I really wish everyone, from all the candidate's support groups would stop the personal stuff, and stick with the facts. It's one thing to disagree, and back up your reasoning with some facts. It's another thing entirely to get snarky or insulting, or to repeat falsehoods that have been debunked a brazillion times. None of our candidates are perfect. They all have some good attributes. Too bad we couldn't take the best of each, and make one whole, but that's not a possibility. Hmmm...what a strange candidate we'd end up with...the Sybil of the political world. LOL

Let's all keep it civil, folks. Let's try to combine the best of each of us. That way, we're sure to have a winner.

Edited to add: Your choice of a candidate should be based on your candidate's best attributes. What others here say or do, should not be a part of your decision. They won't be running the country. Do the reasearch, look 'em all over real well, and base your choice on what you learn.

Peace

[Jennifer C]

24. Lovely post, Livvy

I agree

I'm a Biden supporter, but I also like Edwards & Obama, and have respect for their supporters and no desire for any feud. I haven't noticed it developing to be honest, although I admit I haven't been paying attention to every single thread over the last couple of days. However, if it's only one or two people being uncivil, it's not worth letting them ruin your positive impression and thoughts toward the actual candidate, if that makes sense. The Dem candidates are a fantastic bunch, and the vote is for them, not their supporters. Stay focused, think carefully, and make the decision that you feel is best for the country and world.

[livvy]

25. Thanks, Jennifer. Another Biden supporter, here, too! n/t

[FlyingSquirrel]

63. Brazillion... Brazillion.... where did I just hear that word?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3901445

hee hee

[livvy]

73. I started using that term soon after hearing that joke...

which still causes me to giggle when I hear or read it. Once in a while someone will catch the term, and ask about it, which gives me the great pleasure of repeating it.

[rucky]

27. Don't let supporters decide your vote for you.

Go straight to the source. In reality, NONE of the CANDIDATES are particularly obnoxious (even Hillary), and any candidate who attracts a following are going to have some zealots on-board.

[KittyWampus]

28. I frequent this board regularly now and have NO FUCKING IDEA what/who you're talking about ,

therefore, it seems you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

I searched for some thread about Edwards from a Biden supporter and can't find anything really as awful as you imply.

[1corona4u]

34. Exactly...

faux outrage.

[murbley40]

74. Me either.

[Colobo]

35. Go Biden!

[maximusveritas]

36. Biden is competing with Edwards for some of the same voters

especially in rural areas, so it only makes sense for his campaign and supporters to go after Edwards. That's politics.

[1corona4u]

40. And vise versa...

it's a 2 way street, ya know?

[maximusveritas]

64. Yes, but Edwards is polling much better

so he doesn't have to go on the attack. He's more focused on picking up voters from Obama.

[Tejanocrat]

41. I don't like Biden much for ideological reasons, but the tone of some of his supporters here inspire

me to be more vocal in my opposition to Biden in reaction to the negative b.s. about the more progressive candidates (mostly Kucinich but Edwards, too, to a lesser extent).

The truth is that Biden is at 4% in the DMR poll and about the same in other polls. Biden would have to pull off a miracle to finish a distant 4th, and it is much more likely that he will finish 5th.

Biden has said if he doesn't place third, or at least a close fourth, he'll drop out of the race (although this is a backtrack from September when Biden said in Iowa he needs to finish "first, second or an indistinguishable third. To tell you the truth, if I don’t, then this has been a nice exercise and I’ll see you again when you come to visit Washington.").

Under these circumstances, it would be easy to just ignore Biden, but a few (not most) Biden supporters inspire me to post my criticisms of Biden

[1corona4u]

44. So be it...

if you think I am going to kowtow to you or anyone else, you're out of your mind.

[Tejanocrat]

49. The word is "kowtow." Who asks or expects you to kowtow to anyone? Here's how free speech works:

You speak your mind or I speak my mind or some third person speaks his or her mind.

If we don't like what they say, we DON'T ban their comments, we respond.

Of course, you have every right to say some crap about Kucinich's pre-2003 record on abortion despite the fact that no one denies Kucinich's pre-2003 views were too Catholic for many Democrats' taste back then.

But I may respond by pointing out that Biden was anti-Roe v. Wade before Biden discovered his national political ambitions, and that Biden still opposes all abortion rights for poor women who are on publicly funded health care, and Biden opposes all abortion rights for women who discover a fatal defect in their fetus during the third term of pregnancy.

No one's asking you to kowtow to anyone else. You can talk all the shit you want. But you ought not be surprised when your shit talk provokes a response which conflicts with your small world view.

[1corona4u]

51. Pardon the fuck out of me...

I'll doing some hang time today.

I don't talk shit, I post the facts. You are obsessed with Biden. Whether or not you realize it. There has to be another reason, not just political. No one spends as much time as you do bashing Joe. No one. Have you no life outside of this board?

Bitter pill, sour grapes, or whatever it is, there's something rooted very deep in your brain, and I can't help but think it's personal.

I think you need another hobby.

[mdmc]

42. I had no idea that there were Biden supporters

I thought this was all HRC thing to lose. Edwards and Obama seem to have some support. Never met any Biden folk in this area.

[ChiciB1]

45. Hope Nothing Is Brewing... My First & Second Are Edwards & Biden! n/t

[1corona4u]

47. Nothing is brewing....

This is nothing more than an attempt to shut people up, who don't happen to agree with them on Edwards. Joe has not himself said ANYTHING about John, his campaign advisor did. (or whatever his job is...)

I have always been outspoken about things I don't like about JE, but for some reason, stating one's opinion, and the facts is seen as innapropriate.

NEWS FLASH; None of the candidates are PERFECT.

[ChiciB1]

48. You & I Agree Completely!! And I Do Like Joe Biden A LOT! And I Don't

even know what was said by anyone. I support Edwards, but I try to stay away from the mud-slinging... I just :bounce: and :kick: for Edwards most of the time. But Biden has impressed me a lot this time out!

I rarely get into the Clinton/Obama stuff either. I may make a comment here or there, but I don't consider them attacks.

[Cameron27]

46. I'm supporting Clinton and Biden second,

and it may get rough with a few (very few) Obama supporters, but it has to do with the way they post, not who they support. At least most of the Obama supporters will debate the issues, something that doesn't happen with another group here.

[Klukie]

50. Are you kidding me?

A few anonymous posters can make you switch candidates? I thought we were supposed to choose our candidates based on the candidates views, not some random jerk on the internet. :shrug:

[FlyingSquirrel]

65. True. But here's the deal:

At a certain point, you get so turned off by someone that if you see a post started by them, you just don't bother going into it. Or if they show up acting snarky, you stop checking back in with the thread. There's only so much time in the world you know, and it's your choice what to focus on. So then maybe you miss some good information about their candidate. Sucks, but it's real life. Especially if you're getting most of your info about a candidate from a forum such as this.

In real life, I'll attend my caucus in Washington which is quite similar to Iowa. I will probably put in a few words about the candidate I'm leaning toward. (For the benefit of anyone who truly is undecided at that point, and believe it or not there are usually quite a few.) I'll listen politely to what Biden's supporters, Clinton's supporters, Kucinich's supporters, Edwards' supporters, and Obama's supporters have to say. If there's substance there and I agree with it, I might move their way. But most likely, by that time I've already made up my mind, 'cause unlike the undecideds, I've been following this stuff for months.

[mtnsnake]

52. I'd like to see the Biden supporters & the Edwards supporters square off in a snowball fight

and settle this shit once and for all :smoke:

[gateley]

54. I'll be the ref and call the game due to snow. And bring the hot chocolate. nt

[Infinite Hope]

55. I'm an Edwards supporter with Biden in my top 3. n/t

[ruggerson]

56. They are my number 1 and 2

n/t

[BenDavid]

57. I have a feeling that obama is ostracizing hisself with all this

personal, direct attacks on fellow Dems. Once Obama loses he will try and make ammends but it will be hard for others to accept and he might have just took himself out of the 16 election....

[peoli]

58. Sounds like you dont really have strong convictions about anyone.

If you are swayed so easily.

[FlyingSquirrel]

67. See post 65

And yes, I have very big convictions about a lot of things. (Would I splash them all over my truck if I didn't?) But sometimes you can really be torn between two well-qualified candidates because they have different strengths and weaknesses, and you're not sure which strength is more important at a given time in history that would make them the better choice for president. It's not that snarkiness of some of their supporters that changes your mind per se - it's that you miss information on their candidate, by avoiding those people on DU and not continuing to read the thread they have entered or started.

[Yael]

60. I was rather disturbed about Biden's nuclear lobs toward Edwards yesterday

I am extremely undecided on my second pick, and he just showed a real lack of savvy, IMO. I know he wants the media coverage, but attacking Edwards isn't the way to win hearts and minds when you are polling like 5th out of 7.

When you are that far out of the lead, I would think that the focus should be more positive about what you offer. It just came across as petty.

[1corona4u]

61. What nuclear lobs?

Biden didn't say anything. His campaign adviser did.

Geez, does anyone read anything? Or do they just jump to conclusions. And it is just me, but there seems to be a lot of Edwards supporters guilty of the same thing they come here to post about Biden. IN this very thread!!!

This is just getting dumber by the second.....faux outrage to be sure.

[Yael]

66. Okay, "The Biden Campaign"

Chicken/egg.

It came out of no where (like Richardson's leaflet drop attacks in Philly) and came across as petty.

I am looking at Dodd now -- the only second tier with any class left, IMO.

[1corona4u]

69. Let me remind you....

John Edwards did a Fair share of bashing the other candidates early on, and has since stopped, but that doesn't excuse him either.

I smell hypocrisy.

[murbley40]

76. No it is not just you.

I know we Biden supporters pledged to each other that we would remain positive and not participate in any "bashing', and I am not bashing here. I personally think that Biden supporters are the most positive and civil on this board and nobody has been more bashed early on than Biden on here.I find Edwards supporters to be among the most vicious of any when they do bash. And Edwards has not exactly conducted a positive campaign. There I said it and if Biden supporters want to disown me, fine!
This feels to me like my grandchildren's bickering; they can see what the other does but not what they themselves have done.

Blame me, Murbley for this post and not Biden supporters in general.

[K Gardner]

62. It disturbed me too. I saw no cogent reason for it, unless it's political

maneuvering for caucus votes. I had imagined Biden above the fray, but the attack on Edwards seemed to come straight out of left field. I've also been disturbed at the attacks on Edwards by some in the Biden camp here. I also thought his supporters were above the fray, but I've been proven wrong.

This brings me back to the point wherein I entered...as an undecided voter once again.

[Beaverhausen]

68. It would be better for all of us if we simply posted positive info about our chosen candidate

the bashing doesn't work and I for one a tired of it. I'm tired of being told I'm an idiot and naive because I support Edwards. I didn't come the the decision lightly, and I get very pissed off that others here think it's their duty to tell me how wrong I am.

IIRC, I have made only 2 posts that question another candidate, otherwise I'm all about being postive for Edwards.

But I have to say, don't let a few bad apples spoil it for you. I think we have a wonderful group of candidates, and even though I dislike some things about a few of them, I will support whoever is the eventual nominee.

[FlyingSquirrel]

70. Here's what I'm gonna do.

At first I didn't want to do this, even though it's an option, 'cause I like to hear all viewpoints. But now I'm realizing that it's really not fair to anyone's candidate to stop listening to positive, constructive things that many of their supporters are saying simply because a few of their supporters are constantly, CONSTANTLY posting negative snarky things.

So in fairness to ALL of the candidates, I'm going to have to put the snarky people on ignore.

It's just better that way.

:toast:

[jillan]

71. There's no feud. Just because I don't like Edwards doesn't mean I have anything against his

supporters.