Mary Matalin was at the WH with George and Dick. Dear hubby called her.

[madfloridian]

And Bob Woodward was there and wrote about it in his book, page 344 I think. It was election time. James Carville, Mary's hubby, was apparently at the Kerry campaign. He passes on crucial information. He leaked it to his wife. He got on the phone to Mary, and told her things she did not need to know.

James Carville Leaked 2004 Kerry Ohio Strategy To White House

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

So what happened?

James Carville gets on the phone with his wife, Mary Matalin, who is at the White House with Bush.

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.

"Matalin went to Cheney to report...You better tell the President Cheney told her."

Matalin does, advising Bush that "somebody in authority needed to get in touch with J. Kenneth Blackwell, the Republican Secretary of State in Ohio who would be in charge of any challenge to the provisional votes." An SOS goes out to Blackwell.

See, Mary tells Georgie that someone needs to contact J. Kenneth in Ohio. That is using insider info from the Kerry campaign given her by her hubby.

All this time Mary was being considered for RNC chairman. Her hubby was tied to the Kerry campaign and leaked info.

Considering that his wife is being floated for RNC Chair, a decision which I am sure Carville supports, maybe everything the Democratic Party is doing will be immediately leaked to the RNC. And hey, since Carville thinks DNC chair is all about getting large donors to him from rich DLC-types, which Carville admired so much about Ken Mehlman, maybe he would even approve of Ken Mehlman becoming DNC chair. I hear he is available.

See, now it appears he might be officially joining the Hillary campaign. That has been the point many of us were making today.

Caution is wise.

[BrklynLiberal]

1. I don't trust him..and find it hard to trust anyone who trusts him.

I believe he is totally under Matalin's thumb...at least that is how I say it in polite company.

[FormerDittoHead]

75. IMO they represent what's wrong with Washington for the last 20 years...

Whores working for both sides, working for the wrong people, working for the wrong agenda.

They represent the pinnacle of "professional" politicos when, in my mind, politics should be left to those who aren't doing it for the money...

[BrklynLiberal]

91. Exactly what that guy "Suck My Toes" Morris was all about. He would go to whatever side paid more.

[mzmolly]

2. Both Carville and Begalia were useful idiots for the RW in 04. IFC confirmed what many Dean

supporters knew in 04 just tonight while airing the flick - 'So Goes The Nation'. Top Republican strategists stated openly that Dean would have been more difficult to run against than Kerry because 'he stood for something'. He was a clear distinction from Bushie boy. And, were it not for Carville and Begalia promoting Kerry every chance they got, we might have a President Dean right now? That said, I think Hillary is a smart campaigner and while I support Edwards, I think she's got some qualities that John Kerry/John Edwards did not/do not have. She's viewed as decisive, for one.

[Cha]

6. Hi mzmolly..with all due

respect..bush is viewed as "decisive", too. Even to the detriment of dubbing himself "The Decider".

As you may know..my one issue is the misbegotten War On Iraq which is what drew me to Dean in the first place and as my senator, hillary has been nothing but a disappointment to me.

[mzmolly]

7. Hey Z! Heck, I know * was viewed as decisive. That's why Dean would have been

trouble for the RNP. He would have been a decisive 'counter' to the 'decisive' idiot. And, that's what we are going to run against again. A so called 'at least you know where I stand' candidate. Unless of course, we get Romney?

I don't support Hillary, but again, I think she's a tough/smart campaigner.

I fully understand and sympathize with your disapointment as I share it. However, if she can pull of the primaries, with an anti-war base, she's doing something right. Let's hope she screws up!

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. What good it is to be decisive if you are regularly making the

wrong decisions?

[mzmolly]

11. That's NOT good. But 'decisive' is what wins elections these days ...

UNFORTUNATELY. "You may not always agree with me, but at least you know where I stand..." and other BS.

[Cha]

15. And are the "wrong decisions"..

pruposely made?

[madfloridian]

12. Remember Crossfire with Begala, Carville, and Tucker?

That was their attack central for Dean, Gore, and anyone else they did not like. It was a nearly constant stream of vitriol against Dean.

It's a miracle he lasted in the primaries as long as he did. I once looked up some of the old Crossfile transcripts. They were ugly.

[mzmolly]

18. I sure do. It was disgusting.

And NOW they lament Kerry's 'indecisiveness'. Neither Carville or Begalia should be considered relevant in today's political arena.

[madfloridian]

19. I recorded the IFC program, and just finished watching part of it.

I kept thinking to myself how Begala practically has a starring role in the damn movie after spending weeks on TV on Crossfire saying Dean was too crazy to be president. It all seemed so surreal.

The movie was praising Bush for knowing what he believed in, even though he was totally wrong. And they gave the best view to the Bush campaign.

Odd.

[mzmolly]

29. It was very interesting to watch huh?

I think that the movie pointed out the organization of the R's and the strategy were superior. That, and the fact that Kerry was viewed as 'wishy washy' while * was viewed as 'resolute' is what won the election. Not to mention Ohio and the shady tactics etc.

It's just so interesting that they NOW admit what we 'Deaniacs' knew. Dean was the strongest candidate against GWB.

[madfloridian]

36. They emphasized how the GOP worked the rural areas...

and did it quietly. They met with all their strategists, worked together as a team, and built this movement on the ground under the radar.

What really hit me is this....the strategy they talked about is exactly what the DNC is doing right now and a lot of it under the radar and quietly.

Every once in a while I come across a blog about a meeting with the DNC, and they are careful to not say too much about what they did. I think under the radar is good right now.

I had gotten the impression it was not a very good movie, but it was well done. Annoying and heartbreaking but well done.

[mzmolly]

38. I totally agree with your analysis MF!

In fact, I mentioned to my dh while watching the film how Dean was building the party quietly at the state level. And how refreshing it is that we FINALLY have an intelligent, no holds barred, strategist in charge. And, how Dean will be THE reason we are entering a new Democratic Era. And, that someday his genius will be properly appreciated! Can you tell I'm a fan?!

Also of note is Carville's sh*tting upon Dean for his 50 state strategy. I'm still waiting for his apology?

[madfloridian]

39. But they will never give him credit.

The only ones in the movie giving him kudos were the Republicans.



Apologize? Carville? Maybe when his hair grows back.

[mzmolly]

48. Heh - Well, it does look like he's getting some new growth >

[flyarm]

40. you will wait forever and the DLC is doing it's best in FLA and Michigan to destroy the DNC under

Dean..who i highly respect.

fly

[mzmolly]

50. I'd like to see the DLC go down in history ...

Key word 'history'.

[karynnj]

45. Kerry was not indecisive

Kerry articulated a plan for the War on terror that even people like George Will now consider to have been right. In 2002, Kerry was one of view to criticize the way Bush let OBL escape. Kerry's proposals on Iraq were the closest to what the Iraq Study group proposed.

[mzmolly]

49. Kerry "voted for the war before he voted against it".

It's all about perception. I'd much rather have a 'thoughtful flip flopper' in office than a so called 'decisive' dangerous fool.

I personally adore John Kerry, but that's beside the point.

[karynnj]

69. NOT true that is NOT what was said

The comment was about an $87 billion funding bill. Kerry voted for a version that would pay for it with rolling back some tax cuts and then the same day or next day voted against the final version of the bill.

Throughout 2003 and 2004, Kerry spoke of the IWR not being a vote for war. Though that can be questioned, what is clear is that Kerry himself was saying the same things in September 2002 as he was in January 2003, before the war. (Only in 2005, did he admit that voting to give Bush the authority based on his publicly made promises on how he would have used it was wrong. In 2004, he argued that it was right, but Bush abused it.) In fact, there was little difference between Dean's 2002 comments and Kerry's - both spoke of Saddam being a potential threat, neither thought he was an imminent threat. Both backed Biden/Lugar over the IWR as did Biden and Dodd. In reality, Bush would have gone to war with Biden/Lugar just as he did with the IWR. In fact, he likely would have written the same signing statement.

The Dean and Kuchinich campaigns both used the vote to say Kerry had been for the war. In fairness, although Kerry always said that Bush had failed to exhaust the diplomacy and had not let the inspectors continue their work, the IWR and to a lesser degree, Biden/Lugar, trusted Bush to fairly interpret the conditions. Kerry clearly now takes responsibility for having done that. It does not mean that he was ever for the invasion. He spoke out before the invasion and after the invasion, when the war was approved by 70% of the country he called for "regime change at home" because of it. (not a very wishy/washy statement there.)

From Kerry's comments in early 2003, it is easy to prove that as President, we would not have gone to war. That I don't see anyone saying that Dodd or Biden were for the war reflects the fact that the 2004 attempts to negatively label Kerry still have some power. It also ignores that over the last several years, Kerry has proposed Iraq plans that would have led to us leaving with greater speed and more certainly than the plans that Dean has backed - such as the Korb plan, which was a 2 year plan at the time Kerry had Kerry/Feingold.

It is very possible that the same dishonest charge of "being for the war before being against it" would have been made for Dean as well. They would have taken the fall 2002 Dean comments and contrasted them to current comments - ignoring that Dean was firmly arguing against invading at the time of the invasion.

[mzmolly]

78. I know it's not what he said. But it BECAME 'what he said' which is my point.

Dean was feared, with good reason and Republicans have FINALLY admitted it.

[bhikkhu]

60. Off the topic. but OBL was dead in 2002. n/t

[karynnj]

43. Carville and Begala did NOT promote Kerry

It was clear to me that they did not like Dean or Kerry. Carville fantasized in April that the delegates could choose not to vote for Kerry and there would be a brokered convention - he then mentioned HRC.

The fact is that Dean vs Bush polled far worse than Kerry vs Bush did. Do you believe anythging else Republican strategists have to say?

[mzmolly]

84. They sure as heck did.

I watched Crossfire almost daily. They shat upon Dean and said that they felt Kerry would be a good candidate who could win. They were wrong.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,110104...

[JamesA1102]

62. In your dreams

Karl Rove was chomping at the bit to run against Dean.

[mzmolly]

80. That's what he said to fool vulnerable primary voters.

Worked.

[JamesA1102]

81. Again, In your dreams nt

[mzmolly]

86. Woah,

what challenging and interesting commentary!

[JamesA1102]

89. It was the commentary your response deserved! NT

[mzmolly]

96. Well then, I shall follow suit ...

"Up yer nose with a rubba hose."

[defendandprotect]

92. And most of America was chomping at the bit to vote for Dean --- !!

[Hieronymus]

3. I certainly have no reason to doubt this story.

[stellanoir]

4. They are complete and utter sentinels for "Houston we have a problem"

This land once lauded as being the "land of the lively discussion" has far more than two lousy points of view.

This intractable dualism is a yawn fest and is utterly unsustainable.

Happy New Year.

let's make it better.

[Cha]

5. That's right..there's so

much crap coming down the line from dlcers..it's hard to keep track sometimes.

Was that a hillary operative stickin' it to Kerry to set up hillary's path for the 2008 run?

[Kurovski]

8. K&R. Thanks, madfloridian.

I appreciate it.

[H2O Man]

9. He also hosted

a fund-raiser for his pal Scooter Libby.

[Cha]

13. Oh gosh, that's right.. and

sent out those testimonials to scooter's patriotism or some such drivel. Talk about having your feet stradling two camps.

[madfloridian]

20. I knew he signed a letter with Mary about Scooter...

but I did not know about the fundraiser. That's awful.

[flyarm]

53. you bet he did ..the scum bag...and now Hillary is going to have him work with her??

when are we going to rid this nation of all the crooks?

and all the scum bags??

when we all wake the hell up i guess!

why do we deliberately hurt our nation?

fly

[H2O Man]

65. There are times

that one could look at such an unattractive couple as Jim and Mary, and conclude that this country has a ruling class ..... almost like they make a mockery of our democracy.

But, no ..... if that were true, we would see what Kevin Phillips warned of, with one or two families considering the presidency their private domain.

[flyarm]

68. i remember Mary when she was just a mess..i mean personally ..the way she dressed and did her

makeup...and in the recent years ..she has been "couture'd.."

She is still unattractive..but she is now "well groomed" and unattractive..

and when i saw her children i immediately thought..more COUTURE'D little brats running around Washington..who are made to think..they are the smartest..the most loved little creatures on earth..because they are the ruling class..in all their private schooling..and social clubs!

ok i digress...

on my way to Iowa..to help out the Edwards camp..gotta run..but have a Happy New Year Mr. H2O man!!

my New years eve and the first week of 2008...will be trying to get Edwards elected!!

peace...fly

[defendandprotect]

93. Bill kept the Repug cover-ups going for them --- Iran/Contra, etal ---

And Hillary would keep all of this crap bottled up, as well ---

Where is she on impeachment of Bush --- has anyone ever asked her?

[Truth2Tell]

14. might be officially joining the Hillary campaign ??

This filthy snake and the rest of his reptilian buddies joined the Hillary Clinton Presidential campaign in the late 80s and have never left.

[autorank]

16. There's a big K*R. Treachery most base.

What a sad and galling story this is.

This makes KT look good

[bleever]

22. What time was the Warren County "terrorist alert" lockdown?

I wonder if we look at the timeline if there's a flurry of brazen, desperate-looking maneuvers triggered by Mr. Carville's "sharing"?

On the bright side, looks like his marriage is strong...

[MelissaB]

23. I never thought about looking at that time. Interesting thought...

[bleever]

24. It was the clumsiest moment of the whole operation.

Homeland Security had specific evidence of threats to a county courthouse somewhere in Ohio?

That sounds like something Barney Fife would blurt out in a moment of panic.

[MelissaB]

25. Info about the lockdown for those who don't know or remember:

Co. defends lockdown decision
FBI denies warning officials of any special threat
By Erica Solvig and Dan Horn
Enquirer staff writers

LEBANON - Warren County officials, facing scrutiny of their decision to lock down the administration building on election night, say they were responding to a terrorist threat that ranked a "10" on a scale of 1 to 10.

The information, which Commissioner Pat South said was previously deemed confidential, is coming out a week after the public was barred from viewing the Warren County vote count. The Ohio Secretary of State's office doesn't know of any other county in the state to impose such a restriction.

County officials initially said they feared that having reporters and photographers present could interfere with the ballot counting. They subsequently cited homeland security concerns.

Now, they say an FBI agent told them that Warren County ranked a "10" on a terrorism scale. However, state and federal homeland security officials said Tuesday they were unaware of any specific threat against the county.


More: http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/11/10/loc_warrenv...

[MelissaB]

26. From Rolling Stone:

Was the 2004 Election Stolen?
Republicans prevented more than 350,000 voters in Ohio from casting ballots or having their votes counted -- enough to have put John Kerry in the White House.

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR

...snip

The most transparently crooked incident took place in Warren County. In the leadup to the election, Blackwell had illegally sought to keep reporters and election observers at least 100 feet away from the polls. (190) The Sixth Circuit, ruling that the decree represented an unconstitutional violation of the First Amendment, noted ominously that ''democracies die behind closed doors.'' But the decision didn't stop officials in Warren County from devising a way to count the vote in secret. Immediately after the polls closed on Election Day, GOP officials -- citing the FBI -- declared that the county was facing a terrorist threat that ranked ten on a scale of one to ten. The county administration building was hastily locked down, allowing election officials to tabulate the results without any reporters present.


More: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the...

[bleever]

31. "Immediately after the polls closed"

would be 9 p.m. Eastern. That sounds like it was before the question of the uncounted ballots would have come up, or was it? I'm research-impaired at the moment.

[MelissaB]

32. I think it probably would have been, but if they knew it was close

and had this set up anyway.

[bleever]

33. I agree.

Which makes the next question: what set off THIS moment of panic? Something. Ohio's central tabulators hosted by a private company have anything to do with it?

I think there could be some questions unanswered here.

[mod mom]

47. Their website was hosted by Smartech (background):

Some other sites hosted by SmartTech
gop.com
rnc.org (http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.rnc.org )
georgebush.com
bushenergy.com
gopteamleader.com
republicanvictoryteam.com
rnchq.org
johnmccain.com
speakergingrich.com

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/hosted?netname=SMARTECHCO...

Ken Blackwell outsourced the design of the Election Night Project to Mike Connell who is a GOP operative and the principal of New Media Communications and GovTech Solutions. Their association may go back as far as the George H. W. Bush era. Connell's long-established association in the online political, campaign and fundraising arenas, in addition to his technological expertise, made him a shoe-in for government and non-government services where pay-to-play is the standard..

On April 7, 2000, Blackwell certified the woman-owned (Connell's wife, Heather), small business that Mike Connell spunoff of New Media Communications in order to provide government contracting service a 'non-partisan' face. When Blackwell stamped 'approval' on that incorporation, he'd previously approved the merger of DCI Group and NewMedia Communications.

So what exactly have we stumbled onto with the SMARTech Corp nameserver?
1. We know that the RNC has large contracts with a company named SMARTech Corp.

2. We know the owner of the company is a fairly large contributor to the RNC.

3. We know that not only does the company have a contract with the RNC, it also has contracts with many other right-wing organizations. These include political action committees, a right-wing election results company, and even FrontPage Magazine.

4. We know that the same nameserver as well as e-mail server is used to provide the White House political staff with non-government e-mail. This may be required by law, the avoidance of using public funds for political gain or it may be illegal because government business appears to have taken place on this server. That's a extremely wide range of possibilities, and it means someone needs to look into this matter further to narrow it down.

5. We know, most strikingly that the Secretary of State of Ohio was hosted on this same server. That's pretty damn interesting, because that website provided the most official-appearing results in the 2004 election. It also suggests that a government contract in Ohio was corruptly given to a crony company.

Right now the Ohio Secretary of State site is hosted on an official government address, but we can use the Internet Archive's WaybackMachine to find that at one time is used this address, listed as using SMARTech's nameserver:

http://web.archive.org/web/20031010082405/http://ohsoso...



***UPDATE***
Here is the website used to find all of this out, it's the list of other sites that use the same nameserver as gwb43.com, listed in the DOJ US Attorneygate document dump:
http://www.robtex.com/dns/gwb43.com.html

[bleever]

61. Thanks for pulling that up

mod mom, and it adds to the layers of unaccountable, privately-contracted, free from oversight, protected-by-corporate-personhood-based deniability of central tenets of democracy.

[samplegirl]

17. They are both just beltway insiders...

their pillow talk includes half of Washington D.C. When Matalin doesn't get what she wants I'm sure she just puts on her stiletto's and squashes James nuts or takes her man hands to his throat. Her hands alone would scare any man.
Either way neither of them should be trusted.

[rosesaylavee]

21. Slime.

I don't much care for Clinton but I wouldn't wish Carville on anyone. He is lower than a neocon in my book. He has no sense of loyalty.

[no name no slogan]

27. Carville won't even give us the benefit of a reach-around while he fscks us over

the less of him, the better

[madrchsod]

28. good place for him....

he`s needed in her campaign. he`s intelligent and has an knack of knowing just what to say and how to say it. he`s the one that will make her bid for the presidency smooth sailing.
these are troubled times my friend, and we need hillary`s "steady hand" ...........

[College Liberal]

30. Thanks

I never trusted him and i want my money back for buying his BS book. He talks a good game but only believes in walking the walk with "a good candidate"

[madfloridian]

34. I posted about it again because I don't think some understood...

what a betrayal this was of Carville's own party's candidate. Someone in another thread today said could I prove it hurt the Kerry campaign.

Right there that showed me that the treachery was not seen for what it was. It did not matter that I could prove or not prove....it mattered that Carville gave out secret campaign info to the enemy.

[Cha]

35. Right...they try to distract with

red herrings and strawmen. What matters is that james carville and mary matalin are both traitors who operate under the guise of political operatives.

[College Liberal]

37. two thumbs up

and on a side note, i know which "poster" asked that dumb question. The sad thing about it was that the Hillary supporter was serious and tried to use "red hairings" as an excuse for Carville's behavior

[madfloridian]

41. Good you caught that ploy. Goes on here a lot.

Muddy the issue instead of being honest.

The very fact he called his wife with private business is enough to be called treachery.

[College Liberal]

56. He jumped down my throat

for wishing "all" the candidates well

[flyarm]

54. some that support a certain candidate are aok with traitors as long as the

Traitors are "our traitors"...i won't accept any traitors!

fly

[wisteria]

59. Yes and early enough so that action could be taken to possibly discourage a recount

one way or another.

[karynnj]

42. Carville was NOT tied to the Kerry campaign and was not with them on election eve

even per that story. It is obvious that some one gave him information. Kerry did not hire him to be on the campaign.

[madfloridian]

51. Thanks, too late to edit. It was lousy of him.

I did not realize that.

[rox63]

67. I would bet that it was Terry McAuliffe, who was head of the DNC at the time

The Kerry camp would have to have informed the party head that he intended to challenge the election. McAuliffe and Carville were old buds from the Clinton years. And now McAuliffe is the chairman of Hillary's campaign. Coincidence? I think not...

[mod mom]

70. Exactly he must have had a contact within who assumed they were talking to a Dem

instead of a TRAITOR!

[Warren Stupidity]

44. The two of them are opportunists indifferent to either party.

She plays the right wing of the duopoly, he plays the left, and they both play for their own personal gain and for perpetuation of the duopoly itself. What they both despise is the genuinely honest politician from either side: they view them as dangerous fools, useless idiots who could wreck this wonderful thing they have going in their zeal to actually make a difference. The Matalin Carvilles are the epitome of what is wrong with our republic: it is run by swine like them.

[Catherine Vincent]

46. I don't trust Carville anymore.

He's been married to long to f'ing republican. Has anyone questioned him about that night, i.e. Kerry or Edwards?

[peacetalksforall]

52. The DLC is not to be trusted. Carville is DLC. Team Clinton and Carville

- not good. Begala, also. I wish I could point my finger precisely to the issue. All I can express is my fear and derision.

[eShirl]

55. keep him and feed him false info. n/t

[madfloridian]

57. Ok, that's funny.

I agree.

[wisteria]

58. It is different with Carville and the Clinton's. They got him where he is now.

He could have cared less if Kerry won. He was already planning ahead for Clinton. The Carvilles' strategy might just work both ways. This time around it is inside information being feed to the Clinton camp from Matlin. She hasn't latched on to a candidate just yet. Let's see if she gets to play a role in the Republican's candidate campaign.

[JamesA1102]

63. And...

So what happened next? What was the effect of Carville relating this information? How did it change the course of events?

[madfloridian]

71. You are going from thread to thread saying the same thing. Getting suspicious.

It is a question that does not matter in the scheme of things.

It does not matter beyond that point if we are talking about party loyalty or about treachery.

I am getting suspicious of why you are in such denial.

[JamesA1102]

73. Well so are you...

And I'm not in denial. I'm just asking you to connect the dots. Why can't you?

[madfloridian]

74. Bye now.

.

[JamesA1102]

82. Guess you can't prove your allegations then.

[mtnsnake]

76. Isn't it amazing

how some people have nothing better to do than crucify certain Democrats for no other purpose but to blame them for someone else's loss, in this case, going to the extent of placing Kerry's embarrassing loss to Bush on someone like Carville. The pathetic part is how they pass their speculation off as if it were fact by providing some links and then adding their own fantasy speculation to make their case. Unbelievable, and it's all just a feeble way for them to get at the Clintons.

[madfloridian]

77. From now on

I will not see your attacks on me which have become a joke.

Good by.

People have noticed.

[mtnsnake]

79. awww

Maybe, instead of threatening people like what you did to me yesterday ("I'm going to tell the admins on you") when I proved that your post about James Carville was not accurate (He never called for Dean to be fired like you claimed), you'd stick to more factual posts, you wouldn't have to get yourself into these situations. I love how you always try turning the tables, for example yesterday how you said I called people liars when I didn't do that. If I did, my post would've been deleted.

BTW, just for the record, I don't appreciate all the rotten things and implications you've spewn about me, only for pointing out your miscalculations or whatever you want to call them.

[JamesA1102]

83. You sound like Bill O'Reilly when someone mentions Obermann NT

[defendandprotect]

94. You see 2004 as "Kerry's embarrassing loss to Bush" . . . ???? Whaat --- ????

[meowomon]

64. Was she wearing her leather Domme outfit there too?

She is creepy and so is her troll of a toilet slave/husband, James.

[annabanana]

66. "Matalin-Carville" needs to be the name, every time we use it.

Their relationship & respective party positions are very well known by people who "follow politics". and, of course, by people who "do politics"...

But is has to be common knowledge to people who dont....

[madfloridian]

72. Mike McCurry contacted the Bush campaign early that morning.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/10/9/155440/212

"At 3:36 a.m., a very sensitive communication from the Kerry camp was relayed to Rove and Bartlett at the White House. Mike McCurry, Clinton's former White House press secretary and a last-minute addition to the Kerry campaign, had e-mailed Nicole Devenish, the Bush campaign communications director, an off-the-record congratulations, advising that the Bush team should not try to force a resolution now. Don't pressure Kerry, McCurry said. In the end, he believed Kerry would do the right thing.

Bartlett and others told Bush about the e-mail, summarizing the message as "We'll do the right thing at the right time." They could trust that McCurry would be in a position to know what the Kerry campaign was thinking, Bartlett said, but they had to be careful not to put too much stock in it. At least we know there are people in the Kerry camp giving rational advice, Bartlett said. ... ...

Card said they should declare victory. ... ... ..."

STATE OF DENIAL, by Bob Woodward (pgs. 344-347)

My question...who was deciding "the right thing"?

I got out my copy of State of Denial, and there is not much more. Just Rove having tantrums, and Card telling Bush to go right our and declare himself the winner that night.

[niceypoo]

85. Some real solid sourcing you've got there

lol

[madfloridian]

87. Carville could have sued Woodward for it if it were not true.

If it were not a true event, I am sure Carville would have said something or done something or sued.

If he did not question what Bob Woodward put in a book, then it must have been true.

If it is true, it means he gave out private information from the campaign to a person in the other party. That is being a traitor to your party.

I reread those three pages. Woodward does state before this part that Carville was not actually a part of the campaign...but was "plugged in". He was very close to folks on the campaign, like McCurry, and especially McAuliffe...not a part of the campaign but chairman.

I often wonder if we will ever know all that went on.

It's a little bit overboard here questioning this. The whole blogosphere covered it for days, AAR covered it, now when I repost it because some don't seem to know about it.....I am told my sources are poor.

Go figure.

If I post something I later find out not to be reliable, I will apologize or correct.

Yet, there are people in this thread who follow me from post to post saying I lie and post things that are false. I resent it, and it is showing them up for not following links and reading.

[Misha2]

88. This is old old news

as I remember reading all about it well over a year ago. Anyone who would trust Carville and his wife are idiots. She has gone on the Sundays shows and lied her face off.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

90. Carville's a frigging clown, and he can bite my ass.

I remember the Kerry campaign. It was pretty easy to see that his level of commitment was somewhere around keeping himself amused. I don't care if he's "blue" and his wife's "red"...they both suck.

[defendandprotect]

95. Officially, what is James Carville doing now for employment?

[DCKit]

97. Matalin and Carville are political whores...

as much as I enjoyed the thread, the simple fact is the end all and be all. Whores. Worthless fucking WHORES. And ugly too, in so many ways.

Thanks to all of you who kept this thread civil. Even when the comments were insane, it was still pleasant to read. Even the crazy among us are smarter and kinder than the average Republic.