"Crazy" Ron Paul on Meet the Press this morning.

[kentuck]

Dr Ron Paul said he would do away with the income tax and the IRS. He said he would do away with the Dept of Education. Also, he said he would withdraw all our troops from around the world - from Korea, from Germany, from Iraq, etc. He said that would save $100's of billions of dollars each year. He said it was our presence that was creating the hatred for our nation.

He also was quoted as calling Reagan a "traitor" although he says he doubted that he used those words. He called George H.W. Bush a "bum".

His main message was to make government smaller by less spending. That how he would be able to do away with the income tax system and the IRS. Also, he created a buzz when he said that we should withdraw all our aid from Israel. That they did not need our protection or our money since they had 300 nuclear weapons of their own. He did not think Iran was a threat to attack or invade Israel.

He said a lot of other stuff that "some" people may think was "crazy". Others may have thought he made perfect sense?

[MADem]

1. Yeah, crazy people thought he made perfect sense. NT

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

2. He's a politician first. And, the stars have aligned for his isolationist policies.

He makes sense in that our aggressive militarism has created many problems for us. Interesting, though, that he didn't talk about de funding the military, just the Dept. of Education.

I think if he was serious about "less spending" our bloated military budget should be in his line of fire. But, no, it's education which vexes him. MKJ

[sabbat hunter]

26. he writes for American free press

which should speak volumes about the man.

[rasputin1952]

32. That's the whole idea, and it goes back a long way...

all the way to the Dark Ages; it is far easier to have people sacrifice their lives if they are ignorant, hence, get rid of education.

For all of these people who want to "starve the government into submission", I have to wonder who would believe such a thing? Certainly not any Republican who thought bush would do it.

If DC is so "bad" and "horrible" why do these people want to go there so badly? Not one who has promised change has done so for the good of the nation as a whole, they have spent us into bankruptcy, they have torn away any shred of International decency we have ever had, and have made us a "warring nation", with all comers threatened with annihilation.

Ron Paul is a twerp, plain and simple, he would do away with anything that benefited the nation, and play up all of the insanity that has gotten us into a this mess in the first place.

He's an extreme Libertarian, just one more who would cease taxes on the wealthy, and leave the pieces to be picked up by the middle Class. He's a bum.

[Warpy]

3. Ron Paul is a stopped clock

like Pat Buchanan and Lyndon LaRouche. They're right twice a day. The rest of the day, 23 hours and 58 minutes of it, they're as wrong as wrong can be.

Paul needs to get specific on where he would cut government spending. Until somebody pins him down on that, uneducated people are going to think he's makings sense. Once they learn that he will eliminate social security (all most boomers have to retire on), corporate regulatory agencies that check products from food to drugs to kids' toys for safety, and all other agencies that protect the people but inconvenience thieves, he will start to sound like the total lunatic he really is.

It's very telling that he's only being asked certain questions. It sounds like the Wall Street boys want to stop Hucksterbible, doesn't it?

[LakeSamish706]

4. For a Republican he probably would be the best of the bunch... His thought...

process is very much like that of Kucinich as far as I can tell... If we had to have a Repub as President, this guy would be my choice.

[Jackpine Radical]

7. Well, that would wrest control of the country from the Bible-thumpers

and hand it over entirely to the corporations. Ron Paul is Ayn Rand in drag.

[cali]

8. he's also a fundy. n/t

[Jackpine Radical]

12. Oh. I actually didn't know that.

I know he's a libertarian of some stripe, and most of them aren't fundies. Queen Ayn is an atheist.

[medicswife]

73. His assertion that moving all

Americans that are based abroad back to the United States would save as much money as he is contending is ludicrous. Can you imagine the logistical nightmare to move all of them back here? And what about housing? The Stateside posts already are WAY short on housing. The Hospitals here are not big enough to take care of those of us that are here already plus all of the retirees and their dependents. I think that he's appealing to a lot of people, but they aren't really thinking things through.

[Jackpine Radical]

93. Since when is thinking things through a part

of Republican strategy?

Take the current war, for example.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

15. "Ron Paul is Ayn Rand in drag" is far and away the best and most succint description ever.

At least, IMHO.

MKJ

[rocknrush]

13. The only thought process they have in common

is their belief in the existence of little green men.

[LakeSamish706]

16. Not true! As Kucinich has stated he would end the Iraq war ASAP...

as would Ron Paul as he has stated, that to me would be a huge improvement over what we currently have. The idea that he would pull all of our troops out of other countries (and we could mind our own business for a change) is a great idea as well.

[rocknrush]

18. Ok....

then they have 3. Paul is still a nut.

[sabbat hunter]

30. the man is horrible

he is against free public education, anti abortion, writes for the racist/anti-semitic drivel website american free press. He is also against welfare, medicare and social security.

If anything he could be worse than what we have now with what he represents and his platform.

[LakeSamish706]

33. Now read my original post and then we will have gotten somewhere....

I said of the Republicans in the race, Paul would be my choice if I had to make that choice. There isn't one other Republican that has stated that they will end the Iraq war, so that has to be worth something.

[proud2BlibKansan]

75. Not true

There is more common ground between Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich. The Patriot Act, impeachment, reducing the size of our military, torture - just to name a few.

Where they part ways and hugely is on social issues.

[MonkeyFunk]

98. No, it's not just social issues

it's the whole philosophical concept of the role of government.

Libertarians like Paul believe government is always the enemy, and is incapable of doing good outside a few very narrow areas. That is the opposite of liberalism.

[snowbear]

14. It blows me away that some DU'er stand up for this racist pig.

WTF is the deal with that?

[onenote]

22. talk about damning kucinich with faint praise....

[sellitman]

5. He is crazier than an outhouse mouse.

Anyone who thinks this devient is attractive because his war stance is good should read more. He is no friend of African Americans, Jews or anyone who thinks the government has a responsibility to take care of its less fortunate citizens.

[cali]

6. yes ending the income tax is crazy. yes, advocating that black children

but not white children be tried as adults is racist. yes wanting to abolish OSHA and envionmental protections is murderous. Yes, his ideas about government are reprehensible. Yes those ideas are crazy and destructive.

[Hippo_Tron]

9. If Ron Paul had been alive in the 1930's...

He would've been one of those people that said that Hitler's persecution of Jews was none of our concern and that we should support his regime because it's good for business.

[gateley]

21. Like Prescott Bush. nt

[Hippo_Tron]

25. More in the mold of Father Coughlin and Charles Lindbergh than Prescott Bush

Prescott liked the Nazis mostly because he profited from them. He was pro-Nazi and isolationist but that's because there was no military industrial complex back then and perpetual war wasn't good for business yet. Ron Paul spouts the same right wing populist isolationist bullshit that Coughlin did, only the racism is a lot more subtle because people aren't open about their racism these days.

[gateley]

48. Thanks for the clarification - I understand the distinction you're making. nt

[MonkeyFunk]

70. Yes

he also said today that the Civil War was unnecessary - slavery wouldn't ended on its own. The government would've bought the slaves and freed them.

[frankenforpres]

105. pretty sure congress declared war n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

113. I said, 1930's, not after Pearl Harbor

[xchrom]

10. being crazy and making sense have nothing to do each other.

you might be having a perfectly rational conversation -- until some one looks closely and sees that there is no handless device in your ear.

lots of progressives would like to withdraw troops from over seas or end financial support to this or that country.-- that doesn't make them anything like ron paul -- who is certifiable.

[ellisonz]

11. What a Looney Toon.

[Kucinich4America]

17. MSNBC is running this show right now, if anyone missed it this morning.

At least on the West Coast.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

20. Democrats are crazy? Are you entirely certain you're on the right message board?

BTW, the only government program Paul wants to de fund, beyond the IRS, is the Dept of Education. He said not word one about de funding the Pentagon, which is fascinating to me.

MKJ

[rocknrush]

23. Sorry....

didn't catch what #19 said before he got censored. But I got the gist of it by your response and I thought Paul was for de-funding the Pentagon.

[snowbear]

27. RocknRush - - -

As in butt boil, oxycontin inhaling, draft-dodging, racist Rush?

I sure hope not.

I asked you before.. but you didn't respond. Are you a fan of his?

. . . .

[rocknrush]

34. I wasn't aware

you could respond to a locked thread. Do you have special powers others do not? And why are you making fun of my name?

BTW - no, I do not listen to Rush Limbaugh.

[snowbear]

52. Rockn...

No one is making fun of anyone.

Except of course, Rush Limbaugh is fair game and should be made fun of at every chance!!!

I simply asked you a question yesterday..

Chill out ~ and again ~ like I said yesterday to you......

...... WELCOME TO DU !!!

[rocknrush]

56. Thank you...

But I couldn't answer to a locked thread. So being new I wasn't expecting your....humor.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

41. I'd love links if you've got them.

MKJ

[ozone_man]

24. I think Kucinich says many of the same things.

In regards to he military industrial complex for example. Is it not crazy to support that? Our corporate welfare to Haliburton and global imperialism? If Democrats are supporting the Iraq war, than they are crazy, are they not? This is a progressive board isn't it?

Is supporting Israel progressive considering their treatment of Palestinians?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

39. Kucinich equals Paul in your world, except for the health care for all and education for all,

they're exactly alike.



MKJ

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

111. Yet another poster trying to link Rep Kucinich to Paul. Curiouser and curiouser, almost a meme..

I have already responded to another poster promoting the same talking point:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

MKJ

[bobbolink]

28. So, are you one of those who think he makes "perfect sense"?

You want to see poor people, elderly people on fixed incomes, even poorer, and dying like flies???

[kentuck]

46. I'm inclined to the crazy side...

He's an extremist. As someone said, a broken clock is right twice a day.

[L0oniX]

29. Bat shit crazy?

[ThePowerofWill]

31. I can tell ya one thing.

Crazy maybe, but he sure scares the shit outta a lota folks here on DU.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

47. Yep, you should probably go somewhere where he's loved.

MKJ

[ThePowerofWill]

50. Why? i don't like Ron Paul.

I am 1st and foremost a Kucinich supporter, with Edwards in second. Maybe you just like blind assumption? You reaction is a perfect example of the fear i speak of.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

51. I am quite fearful of yet another isolationist, middle class destroying zealot in the WH.

Good call. MKJ

[ThePowerofWill]

57. Me to.

I was just remarking he seems to incite fear in many here. I guess because it seems some progressives seem to be following his bandwagon.

I wish DK could have managed the media attention Paul has. I find Dennis's message much stronger, but no one wants to have him heard, they just ignore him. Ron Paul got a break in that one repub debate where he shook them all up.

I guess i fear him running as an Indy and drawing votes like Nader. Maybe he could draw more from the other side though ala Perot.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

84. Now YOU fear him? Confusing.

MKJ

[Warpy]

35. Ron Paul is a stopped clock

like Pat Buchanan and Lyndon LaRouche. They're right twice a day. The rest of the day, 23 hours and 58 minutes of it, they're as wrong as wrong can be.

Paul needs to get specific on where he would cut government spending. Until somebody pins him down on that, uneducated people are going to think he's making sense. Once they learn that he will eliminate social security (all most boomers have to retire on), corporate regulatory agencies that check products from food to drugs to kids' toys for safety, and all other agencies that protect the people but inconvenience thieves, he will start to sound like the total lunatic he really is.

It's very telling that he's only being asked certain questions. It sounds like the Wall Street boys want to stop Hucksterbible, doesn't it?

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

49. "Better that the Democrats shouldn't be AGAINST the issues that Paul is correct on." Sez who?

You?

MKJ

[Kucinich4America]

63. Let's try this again......

Paul is right on the war, he's right on the "defense" industry, right on the most recent government expansion, right on his views on drugs, right on corporatism. Right on Reagan, Poppy, and Chimpy. Right on US imperialism overseas, and a few more things that he mentioned.

This is not enough to override his Libertarian delusions, but I'd say considerably more than 2 minutes out of a 24 hour clock. I'd probably have to give him at least one full hour, possibly two, metaphorically speaking. But since I can't sleep 22 hours a day, I don't support him.

Better that the Democrats shouldn't be AGAINST the issues that Paul is correct on.

****DISCLAIMER FOR THOSE WITH A STICK UP THEIR ASSES: In no way should the previous statement be taken as an endorsement of Ron Paul. I DO NOT endorse him. Neither does Dennis Kucinich, for the benefit of those still repeating that lie.****

But facts are facts, and there are people who WILL support Paul because he is correct on these things, all of which a Democratic candidate SHOULD be correct on. Rather than complain about Ron Paul, why don't we nominate a Democrat who is correct on the issues???????

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

80. Yes, shall we just?

MKJ

[Vickers]

36. 'He called George H.W. Bush a "bum".'

wo0+ !!!!

[LakeSamish706]

37. So how bad can that be? Works for me thats for sure. n/t

[Jim__]

38. A stopped clock is right twice a day, but I don't want to use one to tell time.

Ron Paul also said the the 1964 Civil Rights Act was a violation of property rights. He said he would do away with the income tax, but he wasn't clear on how he would make up the money. or reduce spending sufficiently so as to not have to make up the money.

Ron Paul would also eliminate all or most regulation of business. Hell, if Dow Chemical did something bad to you or your family, you could just sue them. Good luck with that.

No thanks.

[ozone_man]

44. I think he may be right 12 hours a day.

The broken clock being right twice a day is a poor analogy in my opinion. Also, those two points in time would be brief moments if that were the case. Paul is right on many issues, arguably the most important ones. From another thread, we're compiling a few of the issues he's "right" on.

1. end the war on drugs
2. bring all American troops home from everywhere overseas,
3. cut off aid to Israel and its Arab neighbors, whom we currently pay off to keep the peace and let them resolve their differences.
4. no torture

I added

5) Restore Constitutional rights.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/finally-action ...

http://www.americanfreedomcampaign.org/storage/afagenda ...

6) Fight corporate welfare. This is broad topic, but includes ending welfare for military industrial complex and pharmaceuticals, repeal NAFTA, job outsourcing, balance the budget, abolish or reign in the FED, ...

Of course most Democrats are not going to agree with Ron Paul on social issues because he is a social conservative, and religious, hence antiabortion.

I ask what are the biggest most pressing issues of the day? To me they are the fascist country that we've become. Priority number one is to take back the country and end the war. To take on the corporations. Ron Paul will do those thing, Kucinich will do those things. Everyone else? Not in my opinion. Edwards is the next most promising though. He's got my vote.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

45. Except Kucinich will provide governance that cares for our citizens, while Paul will not.

Kucinich recognizes that "We, the people" are his boss. Paul want to be boss.
Big, huge, gigantanorous difference. MKJ

[ozone_man]

53. I have no argument there.

As I've always said, Kucinich has all of the good positions that Paul has, but without the conservative social positions.

But look at it from another angle. This needless and immoral war on terror, which is crazy btw, is going to come in with a total price tag of $3.5 trillion dollars when all is said and done. Now some of this is already contained in our $9 trillion dollar debt, but about half of it isn't. So, all of this money could have gone to shoring of the Social Security system or other social programs. So, when you try to label politicians as progressive when they have voted for the Iraq war, I have to disagree. They are pouring our tax dollars down a sewer to fund companies like Haliburtion or Blackwater, dollars that we all worked hard for. This is beyond crazy, it's insanity. Now why can't the Democrats talk like that? Actually Kucinich does, and Edwards is showing serious promise in speaking truth to corporate power.

So I look at the good positions that Paul has and try to find them in a progressive. Also to have Paul (and Kucinich) in the debates is very important, to talk about corporate welfare, the war. He deserves credit for that, because most of the Democrats just don't have a spine. They should have impeached Bush long ago if they did have a spine.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

55. Sorry about your issues with the Democrats. And, Paul is bat guano crazy.

MKJ

[cali]

54. he's a racist. he wants to abolish OSHA and the EPA. He believes the

Constitution should enshrine the right of personhood from the moment of conception. At the same time he wants to abolish corporate welfare, he also wants to reduce tax and all regulation on business. And on, and on, and on. Considering him better than any of the dem candidates, is a travesty of liberal and democratic principles. Ron Paul wants to take back the country all right; he wants to take it back from the tenets of FDR and almost everything on the dem platform.

[ozone_man]

60. So, you agree that he's right 12 hours a day?

I don't know him that well and have no knowledge that he is a racist. He is a religious conservative, so that comes with some baggage like antiabortion, probably some bigotry, but that seems typical for the religious right wing.

The part to pay particular attention to, is how he differs from the typical authoritarian conservative. If you were to listen to him talk about the Iraq war, Bush, corporate welfare to Haliburton or the pharmaceutical companies, to companies outsourcing jobs to China and India, restoring the Constitutional rights taken away by the Patriot Act, you find that he sounds much more liberal than Clinton who supports many of these things, but almost identical to Kucinich. Liberal is after all about freedom. Freedom to speak, freedom to think, rights to privacy. These are things that are under threat at this point and RW Democrats are not so distinguishable from Republicans. They're both authoritarians, they both voted for the Iraq War, they both voted to pass our budget which perpetuates the military industrial complex.

Regarding Paul and Constitutional rights, read this piece by Naomi Wolf. You may have already, but I think she sums it up nicely. Give credit were it is due. While others may talk about it, Ron Paul has done something about it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/finally-action...

[L0oniX]

72. Ron Paul is to the repukes what Joe Lieberman is to the dems...

or so it seems. I can't see the Bush repukes liking him too much. I guess that's a plus.

[ozone_man]

103. No, Paul is to Republicans what Kucinich or Nader are to Democrats.

Kucinich, Gravel, Nader and Paul are all libertarian, not authoritarian. So, if you look at the political compass chart below, drop straight down from the authoritarian candidates, you get libertarian candidates, left for Kucinich, and right for Paul. Nader has essentially the same positions as Kucinich (or Gravel), but will support top tier candidate Edwards, if he maintains his anti-corporate positions.

Lieberman is a Republican/Democrat. A Republicrat? He endorsed McCain.

The thing that scares status quo corporate Democrats and Republicans alike is anti-imperialist talk, whether it comes from the left or the right. Because they realize there is very little difference between the two parties of the corporate duopoly. This illusion is threatened by Kucinich or Paul. It's like the Wizard of Oz. The corporate duopoly doesn't like anyone peaking behind the curtains. Preferring to always divert attention away from critical issues to divisive issues like God, Guns and Gays, and now immigration.

Paul is really a Libertarian, but this political compass test puts him up slightly into the authoritarian side, because of some of his authoritarian views that come from religion like anti-abortion and opposing stem cell research.



The fight between Republicans and Democrats is very comfortable and familiar to those under the illusion that there is a big difference between the two parties. But as you can see from this chart, there really isn't much difference between mainstream Democrats and Republicans.

I think as the country drifts further into fascism, more interest will be generated in supporting anti-imperialist, anti-corporate candidates. I'm hoping for Edwards in 2008. If he doesn't make it, I predict that by 2012 we'll see a new, stronger crop of anti-imperialist candidates to challenge the corporatist status quo, partly because I think the economy is going to get a lot worse, and the country probably more fascist, so that will cause a groundswell of support for change.

[L0oniX]

61. Why couldn't one of our dem candidates take on these issues?

I don't see where it would be a party conflict to adopt those 6 issues. It doesn't matter who comes up with the issues and answers, it's who will implement them when in office that counts. It's too bad he is a social conservative, and religious, hence antiabortion or he'd could be a dem candidate.

[ozone_man]

64. Exactly right!

Look for some of those positions in a Democrat or a progressive Independent. Hopefully we don't have to vote for a conservative Libertarian to get our country back. Kucinich has all of these issues covered. Edwards has some of them covered.

[Jim__]

87. I don't.

He's wrong far more than he's right. He is the only person in congress that gets a 100% on the John Birch Society's conservative index.

[dugggy]

40. Call me crazy but all that makes good sense

Why are we spending Billions of dollars for American troops in Germany,
South Korea, Kosovo, Okinawa, etc etc?

If you add up all the hours spent by Americans EVERY YEAR preparing taxes,
it adds up to another Billions of dollars in waste. Yes, get rid of IRS
and make taxes a simple calculation done on a post card size paper.

Yes, abolish dept of Education. They don't teach a single student. Those
Billions spent in Washington DC could be much better spent in our local schools.

Call me crazy, but spending money we don't have sounds crazier to me. Our National
debt is approaching TEN TRILLION dollars which we will leave behind as burden on
our children and their children.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

43. Another Ron Paul supporter here at DU? Welcome

and enjoy your stay. MKJ

[dugggy]

85. I am not a Ron Paul supporter, my 1st choice is Edwards

But please explain why the 3 items I wrote about have something wrong with them.
Are you against every single idea simply because it came from Ron Paul? As for
me personally, I am against most of his ideas but a few do make sense.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

88. How you can support Edwards and applaud Paul is beyond me.

Even though you're against most of his ideas but a few make sense.

You mean the ideas where he states the obvious? MKJ

[dugggy]

97. I sincererly believe every living person has atleast 1 good idea

simply because a person belongs to the opposition party is not a
good reason to oppose every single idea he or she may propose.

I am not 100% in sync with any candiddate. My vote will be based
on with whom I agree the most and who can win and that person is
John Edwards.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

109. What good ideas has Cheney had? For example? How about

Tom Delay?

MKJ

[MonkeyFunk]

74. It all makes sense to you?

You think government has no role in providing anything for its citizens? You think basic human rights should be decided at the state level? You think we have TOO MUCH regulation of corporations? You think the civil war was "unnecessary" and that other forces would've ended slavery?

Ron Paul is a fucking nutjob.

[dugggy]

86. Government has a big role in running th country, but I am

talking about only 3 of Paul's ideas re: our soldiers in foreign lands, IRS,
and the dept of Education. Rest of his many ideas make no sense.

[ellenfl]

58. he explained his positions,which, imo, have been negatively

spun by the media. i would never vote for him, because of his stand on social issues, but i can see why others would. those of you who have condemned him without watching this interview need to see it and then decide what is true about him. i came away from the interview with more knowledge of the man and with the realization that the sound bytes have not done him justice.

ellen fl

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

59. You will find zero support for him here. Perhaps there is another board where your support of an R

candidate will be welcomed.

MKJ

[Kucinich4America]

77. Are you saying that Ron Paul is absoutely WRONG about everything?

And if so, whom do YOU support?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

79. I think he's right about 15% of the time. The other 85% not so much.

MKJ

[Kucinich4America]

99. Okay then....

So why do you go off on Democrats who point out that 15%, which is all anyone in this thread has done, from what I see?

As I have said up above, there are people who will consider voting for Ron Paul because he is right about this 15% or 20% of the time, because that 15 or 20% might carry more weight with them, considering that it happens to be the issues which have defined this decade.

A Democratic nominee SHOULD also be on the right side of those issues. If we get stuck with one who is not, we're going to be in deep shit. Not from me, probably not from anyone in this thread. But from millions out there who don't know shit about the Libertarian Delusion and what it would do to domestic policy. They just know they want a bullshit war ended, and all the fascism that came with it.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

107. Because, this board is not dedicated to promoting the candidacy of a RW xenophobic, racist candidate

No matter how enchanting you may find him. MKJ

[Zynx]

116. Wrong about enough things with major consequences for the rest to not matter.

Are you familiar with his view on federal laws prohibiting discrimination and segregation?

[MonkeyFunk]

100. It's not his stand on social issues

it's his basic understanding of the role of government.

It's unbelievable that anybody defends a right-wing racist libertarian on this board.

[saltpoint]

62. Paul sounded ill-prepared for even basic questions he got, asking him to

explain or defend some of his positions.

He sounded whiney at times and unstable at others.

I didn't have the sense that this was a break-through candidacy or even a viable political personality.

I rate his gig today in the D or D- range. He'll enjoy a slice of the total vote and may even launch an independent candidacy, but I don't think he's in for a very satisfying several months.

[phillyliberal]

65. yah

The only thing I agree with Paul on 100% is the issue of war and foreign entanglements. Earlier today I was criticized when discussing this topic. Russert really hammered Paul when he brought up the issue of shrinking the size of the federal gov, when paul's own district is the recipient of the most federal program aid in America... haha quite funny.

I agree with another poster, he appeared very formidable and right on target with regards to our foreign policy and troop placement.. Other than that on most issues he appeared unprepared and stumbled a bit.

Still say Biden does the best on Meet the Press!

[saltpoint]

66. I remember that exact passage that you mention -- when Paul is at a loss to

explain why he takes the goodies back to his district even as he votes against the related bills. I'm not sure why he and his handlers couldn't have anticipated just that kind of question from the media, but he didn't sound very convincing.

Agree with you that he is not bad on troop placement, but it may not be enough to break him out of being a kind of niche candidate. The Pukes aren't going to vote for Ron Paul in serious numbers, so I guess he'll try a third-party run.

[phillyliberal]

67. i agree

I do have to give his campaign some credit- the man has raised more than any other republican candidate.. thats pretty impressive. Ignore his stances, or what you think of him, that is pretty crazy.

But he appears to have gone completely insane in his crusade to limit big governing...

[saltpoint]

69. Yes. His team is drawing big donations, using the web, tapping a lot of

disgruntled young voters on campuses.

Maybe he is working on this already, but at some point, he needs a Big Idea to drive the campaign engines. There's no Big Idea, IMO, to "modified Libertarianism," and his percentages right now aren't significant enough to replace the rationale for Puke voters to support whichever zombie is finally nominated in the GOP primary.

There's no poetry to the man.

On a purely selfish basis, I'd like to see the emphasis on the Constitution take on a pop-political personality all its own, to the extent where young voters are motivated to actually read the thing. The country graduates 18-year olds from high schools who hardly know what a Constitution IS, let alone what their own Constitution actually says, and the history behind it.

If Paul can accomplish that, I'll be more generous in my words about him. But on MTP today he just sounded like a half-baked wacko.

[kentuck]

68. Will third Party run hurt the Democrats?

Maybe not Ron Paul but maybe Bloomberg and Hagel?

[saltpoint]

71. There it is, kentuck. You are good at navigating the labyrinth. I spoke

yesterday with someone whose political insight and judgment I trust and value very much. We spoke about Senator Clinton's chances at the nomination in light of her national lead in polling (versus the closer percentages in IA, NH, and SC).

One point we discussed was whether a Bloomberg/Hagel ticket (or Bloomberg/Whoever) is more likely correspondent to an HClinton nomination, with the idea of say, McCain on the Far Right, HClinton in the general center, and Bloomberg just a nip left of Clinton.

It makes for a compelling landscape -- and a very unpredictable one, too.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

83. You mean the thread that was locked?

Because your OP was flamebait?

MKJ

[Richard Steele]

90. The thread where...

...his "opinion" was almost exactly OPPOSITE what he's now claiming.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

91. That's the one.

It's remarkable to see, n'est ce pas?

MKJ

[Richard Steele]

92. One can only wonder how much MORE remarkable things will become...

...and for how long.

[Richard Steele]

89. Funny- that's not what you said earlier today. Almost exactly OPPOSITE, actually...

"The only thing I agree with Paul on 100% is the issue of war and foreign entanglements."

Really? Just 5 hours ago, you said "the only issue I disagree with Paul on is abortion,
but he wants to leave that issue up to the states."

[Zorra]

76. Rep. Paul is far too naive in his understanding of "free market" economics.

He believes the market should be completely unregulated. (Ummm, duh, yuh, that could work).

No.

If Paul were President, it would be like having G. W. Bu*h as President - but think Bu*h with a chronic crystal meth habit, economically speaking. Corporations would quickly devour any of the minute shreds of democracy that we have left in this country.

That in itself is enough to make me take to the streets and plead for people not to vote for Ron Paul.

[Kucinich4America]

78. The worst problem with the "free market" delusion is that a "free market" long ago ceased to exist,

Paul acknowledges the existence of corporatism, and the fact that it IS fascism, just as Mussolini said it was way back when. But the mental disconnect comes in when he fails to realize that removing government services would create a void which could only be filled by corporations, as "small businesses" would be unable to compete, especially absent any regulation whatsoever.

Life under a libertarian delusion..... Think getting tasered at Best Buy is extreme? Imagine getting SHOT over a traffic violation when BlacKKKwater takes over the police department. Is your house on fire? Too damn bad, unless it's at least a million dollar house, because that's where the Halliburton Fire Department goes first.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

81. I'll be looking for you in the threads which support Kucinich.

Your support for Paul AND (incidentally) Kucinich, when their basic political philosophies differ on the most basic of issues of human rights, speaks volumes. MKJ

[Zorra]

95. I believe that you may be misunderstanding Kucinich4America.

It does not seem to me that K4A is in any way "supporting" Ron Paul.

[Kucinich4America]

101. Thank you!

I thought I made that clear a dozen times over in this thread, but it seems I'm still trying to clarify something that wasn't exactly vague to begin with. Happy to know that the misinterpretation isn't widespread.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

110. For the poster to say Kucinich, who believes government should provide health care,

education, housing assistance and job training for its citizens, as well as promote peace through international diplomacy and aid and who 100% supports gay marriage and a woman's right to choose, is very similar to Paul, who vehemently opposes all these things, was an incredible insult to Rep. Kucinich, whom said poster allegedly supports.

MKJ

[Zorra]

94. Thanks. You extrapolated on my point perfectly. What you outlined

is the essence of his naivete.

Paul would be an extremely dangerous preident because he is oblivious to this economic facet of the real world.

[KoKo]

82. He made some sense to me on many points. Just as Pat Buchanan makes sense

to me on a few points. I'm pretty far left...but have some Middle leanings. I think with Buchanan one always has to be careful of his "double talk." He's a master at playing to each side and in the end if he's prodded by a very good interviewer you find out things like "He wished Nixon had lopped off the head of the PBS...and that Pat feels good he got Nixon to cut funding for PBS Twice but Nixon backed off the final cut fearing the "liberals" wouldn't go that far...and Pat said that Nixon later told him..."Pat, you were right...I should have done the third and final cut!" (this heard on C-Span interview with Buchanan this week on Washington Journal.)

I know there are some crazy things Ron Paul says...but he didn't sound any more "far out" to me on Russert than Pat Buchanan on Pat's bad days.

[kentuck]

96. I think we should ask ourselves...

Why is he so much popular this year than in 1988 or any other time he has run for President? There is obviously a vacuum to be filled or some issues that are not being addressed?

[silverback]

104. That's easy...

The libertarian/paleo/fiscal conservative wing of the Republican party is disillusioned with the authoritarian collectivist/neocon/ fundie wing and is flocking to Paul. (l)ibertarians broadly are at least 15% of the electorate and they're in flux now, they've been in an uneasy alliance with the Republican party for decades and that's been shattered by the direction the Rs went with W.

People don't realise how deep and clearly delineated the split in the Republican party has become since Bush took office.

If the Democratic party would simply take rational positions on civil liberties (including guns, war on drugs, etc) we could defuse and coopt all that support and put the Republican party as we know it to bed forever.

The other factor is that despite the often hysterical bashing coming from the left and the right, Paul's a decent, likeable guy and people believe he's honest even if they disagree with him.

After the last few years honesty goes a long way...

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

106. A decent, likeable white supremacist.

MKJ

[annie1]

102. i watched 3/4 of it. I thought he did a very good job.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

108. Welcome to DU. Hopefully, you'll say something similar about a Democratic candidate.

MKJ

[onenote]

112. did you like the part where he said he'd have voted against the civil rights act?

He's bad news and anyone helping to legitimize him is naieve at best.

[4dsc]

114. DU'er should ADOPT a few of RP's positions!!

I don't know about everyone else, there are many of Ron Paul's positions on government that we should adopt.. I don't hear any democratic candidates talking about repealing the PAtriot act for starters.. Or denouncing the doctrine of preemtive warfare.. He calls for ALL our troops to come home from overseas bases that would save this country BILLIONS!! He supports ENDING all government subsidies to corporations.. He would end the federal war on medical marijuana and decreminalize it..

These are just a few of the contitutional loving things he would do and I believe we could support the same with a democratic presidential candidate..

[Zorra]

115. Kucinich said he would repeal the "Patriot" Act as one of the first things

he would do if elected to the Presidency. Before the Iraq "warcupation" started he was warning about the dangers of pre-emptive warfare. DK would bring the troops home immediately if elected Prez.

He has also introduced bills in Congress to repeal the Patriot Act.

DK is a Dem that has a platform that is superior to Ron Paul's in every way.

[The Magistrate]

117. Locking

Items conducing to praise of a hard right libertarian racist are not helpful.