Now McCain is out doing Hillary's Dirty Work

[JackORoses]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22326360/

“They all take simple views,” McCain said of the Democratic contenders. “Sen. Obama and the others wanted to threaten (Pakistani leader Pervez) Musharraf with cutting off aid. We didn’t want threaten to cut off aid; we wanted to work with him and get him to make the progress that he is making.”

He added, “That’s the difference between (having) experience and judgment — and not having it.”

[The Magistrate]

1. Let Me See If My Understanding Is Correct, Sir

All criticism of any Democrat from any source is the result of machinations by Sen. Clinton and her campaign staff?

[William769]

2. That about sums it up.

Disgusting isn't it?

[ronnykmarshall]

9. About par for the course

[durrrty libby]

20. He is a hit and runner. He won't return to defend his nonsense

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JackORoses]

25. We aren't in the General Election. There is a reason McCain chooses to do this right now.

My guess is he would rather face Hillary than Obama.

[The Magistrate]

55. That, Sir, Is Pretty Far From Your Original Statement

Your initial statement constituted an 'insinuendo' that McCain was co-operating with Sen. Clinton, and doing her bidding in attacking Sen. Obama.

If you have been following the statements of various candidates in the primary campaign, you will have noted that very frequently they attack leading lights of the opposing party, and particularly the figure in the opposing party's primary that seems to have wind in his or her sails at the moment. This is good strategy in a primary campaign, which is really best conducted as a means to show-case how you will engage the enemy in the general election campaign, and demonstrate you will be better at that than your rivals. Though it enjoys some popularity in certain quarters, trying to tear down intra-party rivals is not nearly so effective and beneficial a technique in primary campaigns as showcasing your positives, and attacking the other party.

[Joe the Revelator]

27. Even the Magistrate, one of my favorite posters, is shilling for Hillary now.

Say it ain't so.

[Cha]

34. Oh yeah.

[JackORoses]

43. it's a sad state of affairs

[The Magistrate]

58. An Amazing Statement, Mr. Wolsh

First, there is the over-all tenor of it, which suggests that any expression of a view that is not readily identifiable as hard-edged opposition to a political leader constitutes 'shilling' for that figure. That term is generally taken to mean speech that is not the honest expression of a view sincerely held, but rather something procured by money or other inducement. The idea behind it, that persons who do not hold precisely your view are neither sincere in their views or honest in expressing them, is not only insulting and demeaning to those you address, but bankrupt as a practical matter of analysis. In this particular instance, it is a fact that Sen. Clinton is the first choice for President of some forty plus percent of rank and file Democrats, and is regarded favorably by at least three quarters of rank and file Democrats. Thus to pretend that she enjoys no real support among the Party faithful, and that no expression regarding her that is not harsh criticism can possibly be genuine, is a mis-reading of the situation that would make an Enron accountant blush at the effrontery of it.

Second, there is the particular item you chose to engage over, which was my expression of bemusement at a statement that struck me as so extreme an exaggeration of a common line of attack that it cried out for employment of the jesting needle. Do you seriously believe that expressing the view Sen. Clinton's campaign does not dictate the campaign strategy of McCain, so that an action by the latter must have its roots in machinations of the former, can even be taken as a reliable indicator of support for anyone in particular?

[cali]

3. has hate turned you completely delusional

or do you just jump madly to conclusions without any evidence? In case you don't recall, it was Mad Mac who laughed about Clinton being called a bitch.

[JackORoses]

26. i'm not saying he is doing this on Hill's instruction

But there is a reason he is doing it right now and not waiting for the General Election.

He doesn't want Obama to be the Dem Nominee, so in making this attack he is assisting the Clinton campaign.

[rinsd]

30. Or he just made a move in NH and knows he has to compete with Obama for NH indy voters in 3 weeks.

By your outstanding logic, the GOP and the MSM has been doing Obama's dirty work because they attack Hillary.

[Lucinda]

4. You may not have noticed but Mc Cain is a Republican running for President

and they sometimes talk about our candidates. :eyes:

[liberalnurse]

5. If you have a reading comprehension disability, I'll understand.

May I point out to you, the headline is about McCain confronting Obama......
Hillary Clinton is not in the loop. It is reasonable for a republican candiate to attack a democrat. I expect it.

So, clean up your misleading title please.

snip> from OP link.

McCain Assails Obama for Lack of Experience

Add Republican presidential hopeful Sen. John McCain to the list of Sen. Barack Obama’s rivals who are suggesting that he lacks the experience required to be president.

In a speech in Des Moines, Iowa, on Tuesday, Obama pledged that he would “remove our combat brigades from Iraq and increase our military, political, and economic commitment to Afghanistan" as president.

[rinsd]

6. More dishonesty from JackORoses.

While Hillary has not embraced cutting off aid to Pakistan, she has not criticized the strategy.

[liberalnurse]

7. Black Rose is more like it!

:smoke:

[Capn Sunshine]

8. Look

there's a lot of acrimony in various camps, but can we ALL cut the "liar" crap out of our extensive repertoire of pejoratives?

Peace on earth goodwill towards men and all....


BTW, just because a Republican candidate seizes on a meme from the Clinton camp, doesn't mean he's cooperating with same camp. It just means he's too old to remember which memes he IS supposed to be repeating.

[rinsd]

10. The OP has been deliberalely dishonest on a number of occasions.

Yes there has been alot of acrimony.

It isn't helped by bullshit headlines like McCain does Hillary's dirty work without a shred of connection between Hillary's position and McCain's.

The same goes for the absurd Obama's heavy cocaine use thread.

Outright lies should be called out immediately.

[JackORoses]

33. You are full of shit, buddy. You do not deal well with opposition so you brand them dishonest.

McCain is doing Hillary's dirty work by attacking her opponent before the Primaries.

He is not doing this at this specific time to aid the Repuke candidate.
He is doing it to influence the outcome of the Dem Primaries.

Hillary and McCain do not have to be in cahoots for him to do her Dirty Work.

[rinsd]

36. LOL, your logic is ridiculous.

So is Romney doing Obama's dirty work by taking shots at Hillary?

[William769]

12. I know someone in your camp you need to tell that to.

[The Magistrate]

14. Are You Seriously Maintaining, Captain

That McCain needs instruction from Sen. Clinton in attacking Sen. Obama?

Does this extend in all directions? When, for example, Sen. Biden criticizes Giuliani, is he doing M<cCain's work? Or, perhaps, Huckabee's, or Romney's?

[Renew Deal]

13. huh?

Did McCain not say that? How is Hillary involved in this? Did the OP change?

[rinsd]

15. Title of OP is "Now McCain is out doing Hillary's Dirty Work"

[Renew Deal]

22. lol

:dunce: I don't even pay attention to the attacks anymore. :D

[JackORoses]

35. hillary is involved because McCains attack is meant to influence the Dem Primaries

There is no other reason for him to be doing it now.
He is not helping any Repub candidate.
He is helping Hillary, whether on she asked him to or not.

[rinsd]

37. No reason huh? How many indies vote in NH primaries again?

[JackORoses]

28. is it dishonest to question why McCain does this now, right before the Primaries?

Why would he attack Obama specifically now?

Could it be that he is attempting to influence the Primaries?

And I am not saying he is working for Clinton, but his actions definitely aid her campaign.

Thus he is doing her Dirty Work.

[rinsd]

32. Perhaps because he has to compete with Obama for NH indy voters who can vote in either primary?

"And I am not saying he is working for Clinton, but his actions definitely aid her campaign.

Thus he is doing her Dirty Work."

So by your logic because MSM attacks on Hillary benefit Obama, they are doing his dirty work.

Gotta love that logic.

[MadBadger]

42. In the words of Billo, "Now THAT is ridiculous"

[rox63]

11. Hey McCain, who is it that's harboring Bin Laden? Pakistan, IIRC... n/t

[emilyg]

16. You are very dishonest.

[ellacott]

18. Many titles on this board are dishonest

There is a post saying that Karl Rove is endorsing Obama.

This selective outrage is funny.

[rinsd]

19. Well in WW's defense he is just playing the game some Obama supporters have been playing

In relation to Rove & Novak.

[ellacott]

21. I don't notice a difference between either post n/t

[Forkboy]

17. Uh....where's the connection?

Are you seriously trying to posit that because he chose those words he's trying to help Hillary? Maybe, just maybe, as a Republican and all that, he's doing his OWN dirty work.

Just sayin'

[JackORoses]

39. the connection is that he is singling Obama out for attack right before the primaries

He is doing his own Dirty Work, but this time it just happens to correspond with Hillary's.

[rinsd]

40. And now we have the slow backtrack.....

[JackORoses]

45. no backtrack here. please, don't speak for me.

I am saying the same exact thing I said in the OP.

By attacking Obama at this particular moment, McCain is aiding Hillary more than any other candidate.
I call this doing her Dirty Work.

It is a little different than when the MSM gives alot of 'bad' coverage to her.
They are doing it for ratings.
McCain did this to directly influence Democratic voters.

As for your "He's only trying to win Independents over" argument,
is Obama the only candidate Indies are voting for?

[rinsd]

47. This gets funnier and funnier.

You use hyperbole, people shrug their shoulders.

You give a convulted explanation with tempered language, people still doubt you.


"As for your "He's only trying to win Independents over" argument,
is Obama the only candidate Indies are voting for?"

I will type slowly.

Indies are some 40% of NH electorate in NH.

Indies are a large part of the base of support for both Obama and McCain.

Indies will be key to either of them winning their primary as they trail amongst their party members but have edges in indy voters (McCain has been making a move and his 61% amongst indies in 2000 gave him the win).

Indies can only vote in either the GOP or Dem primary, not both.

Early reports of indies breaking to vote for Dems by a 2 to 1 margin have been tempered by MCCain hanging around back to 50-50.

Or I could use your brand of logic and accuse McCain of doing Obama's dirty work since he attacked Hillary in an ad he runs in NH.

[JackORoses]

52. now this is a 'convulted' explanation

can you give it again just in case I missed something?

don't temper a thing!

[MadBadger]

23. Thats not dirty work, thats fair criticism.

[Bitwit1234]

24. Gee so it is OK to bash Hillary at every turn

but if someone says any thing about the "saint" his supporters crap their pants. AND SOMEHOW TRY TO BLAME IT ON HER..Typical....that's they way it goes.

[flpoljunkie]

31. Senator Obama's campaign spokeswoman's response to John McCain...

Obama campaign spokeswoman Jen Psaki said, “John McCain supported taking our focus off of al Qaida and invading Iraq; Barack Obama opposed the war. John McCain wants to continue an open-ended commitment of our troops to Iraq; Barack Obama will end the war and provide more troops in Afghanistan."

Psaki also said McCain "wants to give President Musharraf a blank check; Barack Obama wants a Pakistan policy that is focused on results. That’s the difference between the failed foreign policy of the Bush-Cheney years, and Obama’s judgment to lead.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22326360

[joeybee12]

38. Newsflash! Not everything and every person in the world in controlled by Hillary...

...Repukes bash all Dems, Dems bash Repukes just in acse ANY of them make it through to the general election.

[JackORoses]

41. no one said Hillary is in control, I said she is the beneficiary.

It is her opponent that is being attacked.
Thus it is her Dirty Work that McCain is doing, whether ordered or not.

[MadBadger]

44. Its not dirty

You seem to miss the point. Dirty work would be him saying, "Did Obama sell drugs?"

[joeybee12]

46. You said "is doing her dirty work"...implying she's behind it...

...McCain is doing his own dirty work...it's call politics.

[ronnykmarshall]

49. It's called ABC

Always
Blame
Clinton

It's the marching orders of the freepers and now of the anti-Clintoneese

[JackORoses]

50. no, I implied that she is the beneficiary of this attack, not that she is behind it

can you not see that distinction?

[rinsd]

51. So was McCain doing Obama's dirty work by attacking Hillary?

C'mon Jack, go ahead and hang yourself with this rhetorical rope you've laid out.

[JackORoses]

53. what attack and when? did it occur in the runup to the primaries?

you act as if the timing of this has no bearing.
On the contrary, this is the whole point.

[rinsd]

54. It was an NH TV ad that is likely still running. But nice goal post move by adding a time frame.

Here he is all of 6 days ago

http://ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=672737

The Arizona senator took a swipe at Clinton, saying she has gotten more than $500 million in earmarked projects.

``One of the many differences between me and Sen. Clinton is that I have never asked for a single earmark or pork barrel project for my state of Arizona, and I'm proud of that,'' McCain told a crowd in eastern Iowa. ``Sen. Clinton, since she has been in the Senate, has gotten over $500 million of earmark projects. We're going to be talking a lot about that in the future, my friends.''


Or since timeframe is important along with ridiculous hyperbole in your world, perhaps Rush and Drudge are doing Obama's dirty work by going on about an unflattering photo of Hillary?

[JackORoses]

56. yet more of your own dishonesty on display...The timing is evident.

I like that when you can no longer disprove my argument you accuse me of changing it.

So you admit that the timing of this is important?

Are you trying to say that Rush and Drudge have as much impact on voters as a respected Senator like John McCain?
Now you're being silly.

[rinsd]

57. You did change it. You added the time frame element.

That was after you softpedaled accusing them of being in cahoots. And yes accusing someone of doing some one else's dirty work implies just that.

"you admit that the timing of this is important"

Yes but not for your reasoning:

Under your reasoning, I just showed that McCain recently attacked her in the lead up to the primaries. Even more so he attacked her when she was in a downturn and Obama was gaining steam.

Under my reasoning, McCain is attacking Obama with his eye on NH indies because the NH election is coming up fast.


"Are you trying to say that Rush and Drudge have as much impact on voters as a respected Senator like John McCain?
Now you're being silly."

Who has a larger audience?

[JackORoses]

59. how could I have added the 'Timeframe Element'? McCain is the one who chose to do this today.

I specifically stated earlier in this thread that I was not claiming that they were in cahoots,
but that Hillary was the number one beneficiary of McCain's attack.
Doing someone else's Dirty Work means you have done a job so that the person doesn't have to get their hands dirty doing it themselves.

This is exactly what McCain has done for Clinton. She benefits from the attack without appearing as an attacker.

"Who has a larger audience?"

With the MSM at his back, John McCain.
Just look at the MSNBC homepage if you question who has more effect.

[rinsd]

60. You stated that after everyone called your ass out.

"Doing someone else's Dirty Work means you have done a job so that the person doesn't have to get their hands dirty doing it themselves."

Which implies coordination. Otherwise one adds a qualifier like inadvertently or unknowingly. You went for hypoerbole. Many people called you on it. You have since backtracked by offering a new meaning to the phrase doing someone's dirty work.

"This is exactly what McCain has done for Clinton. She benefits from the attack without appearing as an attacker. "

Again, this implies coordination.

"With the MSM at his back, John McCain."

MSM is at his back with this attack?

"Just look at the MSNBC homepage if you question who has more effect."

3rd story under the new NBC/WSJ poll for the 3rd place cable new network's website. Nothing on CNN or FoxNews home page about this attack.

Vs. 10M listeners and one of the most heavily visited political sites on the web.

So again according to your logic:

Rush and Drudge attack Hillary.

Obama as her closest competitor is the main beneficiary.

Are they doing Obama's dirty work?

[Tactical Progressive]

48. I can't think of a better strategy for McCain

than comparing his competitors to Obama.

He's up against huge levels of inexperience at the federal and foreign-policy level in Mitt Romney, Fred Thompson and Rudi Guliani, and he knows that's an important issue to distinguish himself in a Presidential campaign.

Comparing his competitors to Obama pretty much sums it all up as to not being experienced enough for the Presidency.