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Mike Gravel....explain to me again why we don't like him?

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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:51 PM
Original message
Mike Gravel....explain to me again why we don't like him?
Aside from DU's insane preoccupation with "electability", why aren't more people here supporting him?
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HuskerDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. His answer about blowing off credit card debt. nt
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Agreed. But a lot more palatable to me than an IWR yes vote or some
of the other things I've seen the other candidates attempt to explain away.
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HuskerDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. I don't care about electability in the primaries. I'm for Kucinich
because he matches my views the best.

Gravel's answer that he just blew off credit card debit because the CC companies are evil or whatever just doesn't fly. And I do think CC companies are evil. But you can't just blow off debt and that's why I won't vote for Gravel.
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #19
37. If you only consider "views" and not organizational ability,
message delivery, history/experience, and other things, then I think you are assessing someone with criteria more suited for a position as a theorist or academic (or maybe a US Representative), but not necessarily President of the United States.

And if we don't consider a candidates' appeal to a broad spectrum of Americans, we could end up nominating someone almost sure to lose, thereby setting us back instead of moving even incrementally forward.

Democracy (and progressivism) is very much about finding common ground, compromise as we work towards our goals, and inclusiveness.
We ignore those who are different from us at our peril.
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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. That was a little strange.
It shows a bit of a lack of belief in personal responsibility.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. Quite frankly, I have trouble trying to find out anything about him...
...the media has deemed him un-electable, so they don't cover him.

All I know is he used to be Governor of Alaska and very anti-war.

That's good, but Alaska makes me think we're not going to find him a liberal on social issues, but I'm willing to be enlightened.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Not governor,
senator from 1968 until 1980. He is well-known for reading the Pentagon Papers into the congressional record and helping to bring about the demise of the draft. He's always been strongly anti-war.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Thanks...I got that state right, though!
:)
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Yes, effectively filibustered draft reauthorization for 5 months....
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 09:02 PM by MercutioATC
...which had no small part in ending the Vietnam War.

Oh, and for info, http://www.gravel2008.us/
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. Flat tax. (nt)
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. You know the only people who don't like a flat tax are poor people
and rich people.. A flat tax makes it hard for the poor and makes it absolutely unavoidable for rich persons... Of course there are ways to make some things very taxless, and other things, like luxuries extremely taxed... Its oversimplified to a crazy tax code that we have now.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. Except that the rich usually propose a flat tax on EARNED income only,
leaving their Capital Gains untaxed.
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. Exactly.. Its always the rich people who try to get away with paying
nothing back into society.. they breed on the middle class.. and they are ruining the middle class.. This is why society in America is on a breakdown.
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riverdale Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. They breed on the middle class?
Maybe Britney and Paris :D
The rest of them feed on the middle class.
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. LOL... I suppose feed off them is better.. LOL.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. I kind preferred "breed."
It brought images of Massah headed down to the slave quarters with a bottle of wine and a whip.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. No, a national sales tax .....
Eliminate the IRS, institute a 23% consumption tax, and refund the tax paid on everything up to the poverty level for every household.

(in plain words) The poverty level for a given year for a family of 4 is $25k. Everybody pays a consumption tax of 23%, and everybody receives a rebate of $5750 (23% of $25k). Therefore, those who were under the poverty level (and, as such, spent less than $25k) pay no net tax. Those making $100k per year pay the consumption tax on everything, minus the first $25k.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. For what it's worth
he recently came in third in a local TV poll -- but, of course, this is Alaska and a lot of people remember him from his senatorial days. Everyone in my family took one of those "choose your candidate" tests a couple months ago, and we all favored Gravel.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. He hates ponds
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
10. Three words: BEGGAR THY NEIGHBOR
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. As opposed to the Republicans, whose slogan is
Bugger they Neighbor.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
13. I like him a lot - and have since I saw him during the first debate. nt
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
15. I Like Him A Lot
I don't listen to those who are concerned with electability anymore.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
16. Electability = Coattails = A Stronger Congress. nt
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Yes, a Congress that votes like the opposition.....
"Stronger" in what way?

We did a great job of electing a lot of Dems that vote like Repubs last election...how's that working for you?
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #18
27. With a razor thin edge. nt
Edited on Sat Dec-15-07 08:34 AM by onehandle
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frogmarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
17. His credit card remarks.
I am sure my mouth actually fell open when he said what he did.

I like him, but I figured then he was toast with regards to winning the nomination.
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Nailzberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
22. He is Unitarian. That does it for me.
Actually, I don't know anything about him, other than he's a UU. I don't think he'll be around to vote for by the time I get to vote, so I haven't paid him any notice.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
23. Cause he comes across as a lunatic half the time?
His Yea I screwed the credit card companies answer at one of the debates was all it took for me to know he was a piece of work.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
24. I like him alot, just don't think he's presidential material.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #24
35. I think he'd make a GREAT ambassador to Saudi Arabia, however.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
25. Because he is a has been who has been out of the loop too long?
I just don't buy into the notion that presidential politics is the place to restart a political career. It is not as if he has remained active in some cause the way Al Gore has.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
28. Same reason I wouldn't vote for my dotty uncle.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
29. I like him OK
Edited on Sat Dec-15-07 08:59 AM by Tom Rinaldo
I disagree with him on a few things maybe but strongly agree with him on more. There are a number of folks who would make pretty good Presidents who I am not supporting, folks like Bruce Babitt, George McGovern, Pat Schroeder and Andrew Young. Heck throw Jerry Brown into that mix.

What's that you say? Those folks aren't running? True, but neither is Mike Gravel. The distinction between them is technical only. Mike Gravel has not mounted an actual campaign.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
33. I'd say it's more a preoccupation with sanity and coherence.
Fantasyland!
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
34. His anger is valid, but it doesn't seem very constructive.
The whole staring-at-you video thing tells me he's not taking the process very seriously.
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Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
36. If you heard him on the Mike Malloy show a few months back, you wouldn't need to ask
Gravel sounds good in the tiny soundbites that he manages to get in at the debates, and he's right about a lot of things, but he crosses over into Ron Paul territory when it comes to things like taxes and education. And he comes off sounding like a psycho when you call him on it. Malloy gave him a full 90 minutes on his show (minus commercials) so he had plenty of time to clarify what he was saying, but he still sounded a bit psycho to me.

He's also a little old for President. We shouldn't be the ones to try to break Reagan's record. Unless Jimmy Carter feels like running again, then I might change my mind.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
38. I dunno, that staring-contest video of his pretty much sold me.
:rofl:
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