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If DU is any indication, get ready for a 2nd tier candidate to run away with the nomination

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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:45 PM
Original message
If DU is any indication, get ready for a 2nd tier candidate to run away with the nomination
The threads on DU are starting to remind me so much of the Dean/Clark debates that took place on here in 2003. I was a Clarkie, and by Febuary, after all the bad blood, and all the flames, we were left consoling each other as both of our muses dropped out.

With that said, I'm fully prepared to the same thing happening this cycle. It would be poetic justice if we're all crying in our blue beers while the Biden or even the Edwards folks get to celebrate.

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johncoby2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. geez wake up.
Grow up.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Huh?
I don't get how your response works in context with the OP.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. or the DK supporters smile....
:)
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Well, you should get some joy out of life.
It's not like you're going to win a nomination or anything. So live for the moment.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. nm
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 06:57 PM by Wolsh
...
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. ok....if YOU say so
:eyes:
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hvn_nbr_2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. I've thought all along that the nominee won't be one of the early leaders.
It almost always seems to happen that way. When they start polling two years before the first primary, the results show only whom people have heard of. Someone from the second tier always surprises. It looks to me like the most second-tier buzz is around Biden but it could turn out to be Richardson too.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. This will be Mike Gravel's moment!
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
7. Bill Richardson! "2013 Is Too Late!"
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
10. Fine with me
n/t
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Kokonoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
11. I hear republicans like Edwards too.
But the right wingers would be up in arms.
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Moderate Dem Donating Member (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
12. Not gonna happen
DU is the left wing of the left wing of the Democratic party. Not an insult at all, just the truth.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Which is why I was making the compariosn to 03...
the same dynamics were set up in here then as well.
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Moderate Dem Donating Member (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Oh, I see your point
I really should learn how to read...
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. How do you figure that, Moderate Dem? Name me an issue on which DU is
not the MAINSTREAM of the American people. Not the left. Not the far left. The MAINSTREAM.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. The only issue I can think of is Gay Marriage...
But even the resistance to legal recognition of Gay Marriage is falling, slowly but surely, but even then, I would still say that DU is probably 5 to 10 years ahead of the rest of the American people, or at least the Democratic party, on this issue.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Gay Marriage and Capital Punishment. That's it.
I did a study of issue polls, and found that the American people are way up in the 60% to 90% range in opposition to all major Bush policy, foreign and domestic, except for those two issues (gay marriage and capital punishment). Torture. The war, of course.* Social Security. The deficit. Transparent vote counting. Women's rights. You name it. Great opposition to Bush policy, from way before the 2004 election. It's one of the supporting evidences that he didn't win.

*On the war, 56% of the American people opposed it from the beginning--Feb. '03. (NYT poll; others put it at 54-55%.) 56% is a significant majority. It would be a landslide in a presidential election (and believe me, it was). Now it's a whopping--epochal--antiwar majority of 70%!

And these are almost all corporate news monopoly polls, often weighted toward Republicans and fascist policy.

DU is the MAINSTREAM on MOST policies.

And when you consider how Rove used the gay marriage issue--and the OTHER matters of concern to Americans (grave matters like war, torture, massive debt), you have to wonder if Americans really care, one way or the other, about gay couples marrying. Rove's gig was to create a plausible narrative for stolen elections. So he put gay marriage on ballots as a "wedge" issue, but the outcome, as to Bush and Bushites getting elected, was a foregone conclusion. He created an ILLUSION that people cared a damn about gay marriage. Some do, I don't doubt. But it's not a big deal for most. Most people are concerned about PUTTING FOOD ON THE TABLE. Most people are in a terrible squeeze, what with skyrocketing health care costs, and all costs of living (gas, heating, mortgage, rent, credit card usury, college education), and disappearing jobs, decent jobs with benefits a thing of the past, deteriorating communities and infrastructure, neglect of the poor, safety nets gone, etc.

Without gay marriage, the Bushites had an empty narrative. People were laughing at their silly "terrorist alerts" leading up to the 2004 (s)election. The "soccer mom" vote was a myth that had been exposed. They had lost their justification for their horrendous war on Iraq--no WMDs found. They had been exposed as torturers. (63% of Americans opposed to torture "under any circumstances"--May '04). To WHAT were they to attribute a Bush-Cheney win in '04? They were the WORST REGIME IN U.S. HISTORY for most peoples' pocketbooks, apart from the Coolidge and Hoover regimes. And they are criminals--torturers, warmongers, and master thieves--to boot. They had NOTHING.

So I consider gay marriage to be a largely invented issue--cover for 'TRADE SECRET' code vote counting. And I don't think pollsters pay enough attention, on this issue, as to whether or not people give a damn about it. In having to choose, they may say they are anti. But does it really matter to them?

Capital punishment is somewhat similar, although, as a fascist issue, it is of earlier venue. I think most of its supporters haven't thought about it much in a long time. It has come to be what IS. Kind of like our police state, our draconian laws and sentencing for non-violent crime, our "prison-industrial" complex, and the innumerable cop shows and crime shows on TV, it is part of the wallpaper of our society. Few question it. But it was a hot fascist battle back in the '60s to the '80s, very much related to creation of the police state boondoggle that is such a horrendous drag on taxpayer money today. For a while there, in the '60s, we had the idea of rehabilitating criminals, and were heading toward the widespread view among all other civilized countries today, that state murder is a bad, fascist policy. Very corrupting and corrosive. With the recent scandals about the innocent being convicted, and the scandal about rich vs. poor justice, our view of the police state--and its linchpins, capital punishment and the failed "war on drugs"--is starting to change.

I would say that DU is only a few years in advance of American society on both of these issues. And it is absolutely mainstream on everything else. It is the Bushites and their lapdog corporate news monopolies who are way, way out of step with most Americans, on most issues.

I keep trying to tell people this. WE are the mainstream. But it's hard for people to believe when Bushites (and their Dem clones) keep getting elected (if they haven't yet realized how rigged the elections are). Also, people find it hard to shed the corporate news monopoly brainwashing which is aimed at making members of the true American MAJORITY feel isolated and alone, by promoting the fascist, warmongering views of the few, way out of proportion to their numbers. If your main touchstone on national reality is the fascist media, you are going to get a very screwy view of things--not only consciously, as to policy, but also unconsciously, as to what you feel about your fellow and sister Americans, and what you presume about what they believe and want.

For us activists, it's a very important strategic question, whether Americans have gone fascist, or whether the American mainstream is being FALSELY portrayed, and disenfranchised by stolen elections. I think the latter is true--after much study and thought--and our efforts should therefore be focused on the rigged voting machines and other disenfranchisement crimes.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. If the Biden folks get to celebrate, we'll buy those beers for the rest of you!
:hi:
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