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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:36 PM
Original message
There's something about Hillary
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 04:37 PM by lamprey
that drives people insane. I really don't know what it is. Something like the reverse of the usual projection where people project their hopes and dreams onto a candidate.

And I really don't understand General Discussion: Politics. I've made a few mostly snarky posts but I am out of my depth- like walking in 4 hours after the party started and everyone's drunk. Oh well, have fun.
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Madam Mossfern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. I work with someone who has the same effect on people
Heaven only knows that I try not to hate this woman and none of us can figure out just why we feel the way we do about her...but we can't help it. We actually have a small support group to ensure that we aren't nasty to her. I must say that she has some qualities that I see in Hillary. She is told protocol and practice yet seems to think that she knows better and doesn't follow. We end up having to clean up the mess. But then again that can't be it 'cause there are some really bad f***ups, and we love them.

Has to be something though.
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TheFarseer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. I just don't think she means what she says
I think she tells people what she thinks they want to hear. I can't stand pandering and I really can't stand pandering not directed at me!
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I hate pandering,
and there's one candidate who drives me up the wall with it...but it's not H. Clinton.
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. nothing complicated--she talks like a sleazey neocon
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. I posted this on a different thread:
Fifteen years of hard Right wing work went into smearing Hillary, and guess what? Now it is easy to attack her for being "polarizing" and for having the personality traits that Rush Limbaugh and company worked so hard for years to pin on her.

There are legitimate grounds to not support or not like Hillary on. But harvesting the seeds of hate sown by the right for 15 years is a weapon uniquely suited to attacking Hillary that those who would prefer that she not become our nominee have had thrust into their hands, and some all too gleefully are willing to use it.
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DivorcingNeo Donating Member (199 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. No Tom...
In my opinion it's the pandering (as one poster stated). It's also these false notions that she is looking out for the best interests of people in this country that are getting shafted every which way but loose. She is not. She is a part of the elite. The stacked power structure in this country that's only intention is to retain that power and keep the wealth concentrated where it is.

I'm not in politics so I can say what I truly believe. I won't bring up all the reasons why I'm supporting one of the other candidates, but I will state that I find it disturbing how people cannot see the strange way this country is evolving in regards to government. Bush - Clinton - Bush - Clinton? No I don't think so...I don't like it and looking into the politics of all four of these individuals, paying attention to the policies they've backed should make the average American raise an eyebrow and run as fast as they can the other way.

Oh and black people, please stop saying Bill was the first Black President because he was not and is not Black... read the actual policies he enacted and lest not forget Rwanda. For Gawd's sake wake up!!!
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. just conspiracy tripe
1) compare campaign proposals
2) compare candidate records
3) understand that just because a politician says he is new different for change etc, that he/she is a politician and must compete with other politicians.


If you do that honestly, you will see that Hillary Clinton is no worse than whoever you are supporting.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. It's more than one thing
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 05:15 PM by Tom Rinaldo
That's the honest answer. If I wasn't clear enough in my post about that maybe it's because the context was slightly different in the thread where I first posted it. There usually are multiple choice answers for why some people really don't like some politicians. There are for some of our candidates who are running more from the left, like John Edwards and Dennis Kucinich, also. And thre also are some people who really like Clinton and/or Edwards and/or Kucinich - often on ideological grounds but not exclusively so either way.

I tried to cover that by saying there are valid grounds for why some people may not like Hillary. The other thread discussed more of the foaming at the mouth type of attacks which Hillary gets subjected to, in the minds of many of us far out of proportion to any criticism of what she stands for politically - hate that would not be expressed against an Evan Bayh or Tom Vilsak to mention two prominent DLC petential Presidential candidates as examples.

And I hate to break this to you, but that "America's first Black President" line has roots in the Black Community where it has been used tongue in cheek, but with real affection also.
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DivorcingNeo Donating Member (199 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I know where it comes from Tom...
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 05:40 PM by DivorcingNeo
I am black. Surprise, surprise. However if it seems I'm a bit angry well then maybe the typical Angry black woman stereotype fits. The democratic party has taken the Black vote for granted one too many times. I find that some of the most liberal among the batch are doing little each and every year to address the concerns of all the parties potential constituents. A group of Washington D.C. greed hounds that take black voters for granted (except during election time aided with a sprinkle of flowery language).

There is no conspiracy theory here, it's plain ole' neglect. It's elitists attitudes that think they know what the country needs instead of actually listening to what the people say they need. Hillary is a part of that establishment. I do not have rose colored glasses on, each candidate...even the most ideological among them have baggage and flaws but Hillary, no, she is the not the candidate to address my concerns. If I vote for Hillary Clinton I might as well bend over and hand her the Vaseline as well.

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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. I did have a fleeting thought that you could be Black
but since returning from the Yearly Kos convention I gained a better appreciation for how under represented Blacks are in the blogosphere, so I decided not to re-edit the post before hitting send when that thought hit me. Serves me right.

I have no problem whatsoever with your being angry. There is plenty to be angry about - likely more for you than for me, but there's more than enough for me also. And I also have no argument with your point that the Democratic Party has long taken the Black vote for granted. That is morally corrupt.
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DivorcingNeo Donating Member (199 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I'm glad you agree
Now I'm not angry *smirks*
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. That's silly. It's not her 'personality traits'.
It's a simple matter of trust.

She claims to be progressive, and has many progressive votes behind her, but she cozies up to the worst regressives on the scene - taking financial help from predatory corporations and Rupert Murdoch; hiring sleezes like Penn and Shaheen to run her campaign.

I don't care if she's 'brittle' - I just want her to be genuine. As an actor, I find it very easy to recognise acting, especially bad acting, and more than any other candidate I see her body language, her reactions, her laughter as being at odds with what she is really thinking - like it is running through her head "I better laugh at that one" or "turning my head away will show that I'm not concerned about that one".

Reagan did the same thing, but he was actually a pretty good actor. * tries it and looks stupid, which he is. Most politicans have the good sense and political instincts NOT to do that - Bill was one of the most genuine I've ever seen. She is not Bill. She does not trust her own instincts, which 10 years ago worked for her - now she calculates everything, at it works against her. If she doesn't trust herself, how can I trust her?
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Jack Bone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. She comes across to me, as insincere..
I know that's just a judgment call, but it makes me wonder if other people feel the same way?
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. how can anyone who thinks 'lobbyists are people too'
and one who takes chunks of cash from these hefties, and has a certain fondness for sabre rattling and threatening and supporting Bush's insane efforts to promote more hatred toward america and look for trouble when trouble sometimes doesn't exist ---expect the general public to take her as sincere?
I know all politicians lie their fool asses off so maybe they are just better at it than her.
but then she's had so much time and practice...

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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
8. i once knew a nun just like that. people either hated her, or they loved her. there was no middle
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 04:55 PM by flordehinojos
ground on how people felt about her and many times she'd win some of her fiercest haters into the camp of people who ended up loving her. the opposite was also true, particularly when people expected whatever they expected and became disappointed in their expectations.

Maria Isabel,RF, may you RIP. She is deceased now.
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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
10. She calculating and makes poor choices. She exhibits poor judgment
That's enough isn't it?

Her failure to admit that voting for the Iraq war as a mistake then voting for Kyl/lieberman and trying to say that was a "diplomatic move" sealed it for me.

Now with all the dirty politics she's involving herself with... she has no place as president.

Its a shame. I thought she was courageous as First Lady. She did more than bake cookies and decorate the whitehouse christmas tree. I wanted to support her, but I simply cannot. Every day I find more support for my decision. The last two weeks of her campaign and the methods used by Penn and the rest of her staff when she started to sink in the polls proves that she is an old school power hungry politician.

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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. You know the day they left.. I was all for her taking back over..
Bill and Hill in the White House for longer... Her Senate voting record on some key issues really bother me... and then the campaign started. Its just gone downhill for me. She's not even a consideration for me any longer.. I think I'm decided now.. never now until after the vote is cast... Seriously, I feel like she's taking women in politics back a step... You don't play the men's game.. you play your own game.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. What you and Whisp say (theirs is post seven)
I'm in full agreement.

When it is proved that lobbyists are human beings, I'll quit eating 'em for lunch.
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sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. I think Hillary is a lot more real
than either of the other candidates. I find Obama to be a whinny cry baby and his staff also. If he doesn't think his drug exploration will not be used he is dreaming. Does he think that a Hillary person was putting ideas in someones head he is stupid. We need someone who can win and not cry all the time. Edwards is very idealistic but I don't think he is right at this time. There is a big mess to clean up so just remember you can be purist but that won't win the election.
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DivorcingNeo Donating Member (199 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Yeah "real" calculating.
Well Sallyseven with you being a Hillary supporter I know I would really not want to support the woman. I don't see anyone whining but you...elitist!
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NewHampster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. Karl Rove planted the subliminal message in your head
I must hate Hillary
I must hate Hillary
I must hate Hillary
I must hate Hillary
I must hate Hillary
I must hate Hillary
I must hate Hillary
I must hate Hillary
I must hate Hillary


But nobody knows why they hate her.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. Odd. The other posts are very clear and specific on why they don't like her.
Maybe it's you who are not sure just why you DO like her?
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
13. haha, here's another "There's Something About Hillary"
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
18. You think the people that don't like her are INSANE?
:shrug:
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. Now, now, the OP didn't say that.
Personally, I think it's her supporters who are insane.

The post still fits.
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libodem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
22. She is divisive if nothing else
I want to like her. I think to myself, sometimes, 'What if Mitt Romney, or Ghoulani, get, elected?' Will you not be sorry then, that you did not support, our first potential female president, while you had the chance? I'll take her over any Republican, and I'd be glad to have our guy, Bill, back, but I don't love her like I do, 'President Gore'. What if that worm, Jeb, jumps in at the last minute? Not of those sanctimonious, self serving, Repubs, are worth, a shit.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
27. Well that explains her hairstyle
I got nothing here.
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Rene Donating Member (758 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
28. All this recent crap being waged against Hillary has gotten me off the fence.
I'm totally supporting her candidacy now. She's a decent, intelligent and caring individual and will be a very effective leader. I'm going to trust her.
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