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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:37 PM
Original message
Biden being a VP, or SOS--what he has always said....
Joe Biden has consistantly said that he is not interested in any position other than President. I'm stating this as a topic, because I see people over and over, suggesting him for VP, and SOS. There are literally hundreds of articles on the internet, that he was asked the question, and stated that he would just go back to the Senate.

I know others have said that as well, but Joe really means it. I am posting this because some might not be aware of how many times he has stated as much. And that he means what he says. All one has to do is a simple search on Google, and you will see what I mean.

I think it's unwise to second-guess him, and assume he would take either.

If you like Joe Biden, and would like to see him in the WH, you should vote for him for President.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Biden should be flattered that people want him to have a position
in the next administration. That's more than most Prez candidates ever get. I don't see him winning the nom, but I don't want him to go away either.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'm sure he is flattered...
however, as I have said many times, he has more power in the Senate, than he ever would in the admin of the next president.
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Less power than Cheney?
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Well, he is the exception to the rule...
I normally state as much, but was strictly speaking to the incoming president.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Obama might be willing to let Joe have quite a bit of power as VP
if Obama is the nominee. I notice they've made nice in the last debate. If Obama goes into the general, would you rather see Joe keep his Senate seat or become VP?
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Senate.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. If Obama became president & Biden was his VP...
it would create the uncomfortable dynamic where the VP is more knowledgable than the president. Obama would be turning to him again and again. It doesn't make sense.

Put the most qualified person in the presidency. If Democrats can't figure out this obvious and logical mandate, then I'm through with the Party. I'll just consider myself an independent and try to keep my head out of politics as much as possible. I'm tired of associating myself with the Party of poor judgment.

There will be a considerable learning curve with Obama, and we can't afford that right now. People can pretend that isn't the case, but it's a fact that shouldn't be ignored. He hasn't paid much in the way of dues. That was one of my main complaints about our current president during the election of 2000. I think I was right. Because of Biden's experience and intellect, his learning curve will be insignificant in comparison to the others. There's every reason to believe that he'd make the strongest general election candidate as well. He is a man of the highest ethical standards and is arguably the most genuinely "real" candidate running. It's a no-brainer, unless one has no brain.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Well, I wasn't going to argue the merits of Obama v. Biden--
I support Obama, and that won't change. I was just wondering whether Joe's supporters would mind Joe taking the VP slot, but I can see that it bothers you, so...I guess I got my answer.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Ok, let me try to explain it to you...
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 04:20 PM by 1corona4u
first, let's take it out of the political arena.

Let's say, that you were in a career, that you went to college for, graduated, etc. and always kept up on continuing education. Not only do you have the education, you have experience in that field.

Ok, you go to a job interview, for a management position lets say, which you are highly qualified for. The only other candidate for that job, is a high school graduate.

2 weeks after the interview, you learn that the person with a HS education, got the job and you, who had all of that knowledge, and experience behind you, didn't. Assuming you were both likable, and that there was no discrimination, how would reconcile that with yourself?

Now, I am going to ask you all to be honest if you reply to this, but not only would it piss you off, you would be totally offended as well.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. There's always going to be the whiz-kid, the rising star who leaps
ahead of the old middle-management workhorses, who grumble that they put in oh-so-many years with the company, it should be THEIR turn for the promotion. But, that's the way it goes, in life and in politics. I am perfectly comfortable with Obama's credentials. I think he'll make an absolutely wonderful President, next year, 4 years, or 8 years from now.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. That doesn't mean it's right though...
and, your failure to admit that it would piss you off, is simply to justify why you think "that's just the way it goes". I would remind you too, that everyone gets "old". It may even happen to you down the road. When you need the job the most.

But, you can deny it would be an issue now....
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Lots of things piss me off--the rise of Obama's political star is not one of them.
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 04:50 PM by wienerdoggie
Politics is in large part based on personality, charisma, charm, looks, leadership--you can decide not to let that sway you when making your voting choices, but it's a fact. Success in politics is also not a scientific, linear process--the bosses are the people, and they want different things every election. Those on top today might be one bad decision or shift in the wind away from being the next Tom Daschle or Bill Frist or Macaca Allen of tomorrow. I respect Joe for having hung in there this long--he must have pleased his bosses and he's been a good Senator. Does that automatically mean that he's my first choice as President? No.

edit to add: not saying that Joe doesn't have the attributes I listed above (charm, etc.)--just saying that those are factors, and mileage may vary for each candidate.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
30. Sorry, but experience gets my vote.
Not personality, not looks, not charisma, and not charm. As I said before, people do want change. And they want to go so far away from what we have now, they are leap-frogging right over a person, who is, in every way, more qualified to be president. They do so, as I see it, because they don't think Joe can bring about the kind of change they think they want. Which is totally unfounded. Let me say that again. That is totally unfounded.

The ironic thing is though, in their zeal to elect a "candidate of change", they are in fact voting for the very same hierarchy we have right now. That is to say, a president who has less experience than the VP. And we see where that has gotten us.

I'd like the president to be calling the shots, not the VP, or any other members of the admin.

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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. What do you base your "whiz kid" description of Obama on?
Good grades? What has Obama done to earn the trust of the American people to make him president? Convince us that Obama is enough of a whiz kid to deserve to be President of the United States.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. Extremely bright, ambitious, Prez of Harvard Law Review, passed
on a chance to be a wealthy trial lawyer to work as a community activist in poor neighborhoods, got into politics at the un-glamorous ground level and worked his way up in a rough and corrupt political atmosphere without becoming tainted himself, helped clean up that corruption, and knows Constitutional law well enough to teach it. He has a true desire to serve the country, and it shows in everything he's done career-wise. He's simply an impressive guy, and at 46, I don't think he's THAT young. He's got the talent and energy to confront the challenges of the post-Chimpy era, and he has the wisdom and maturity of someone years older.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Can you tell us what his foreign policy experience is?
Thanks!
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Has an International Relations degree from Columbia, and sits on
the FRC. That's more than the entire R field except McCain.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. But it's nowhere close to Joe'e experience...not even close...
Edited on Sat Dec-15-07 01:21 AM by 1corona4u
At any rate, if he had experience, he'd know what to do. He wouldn't need to "ask for advice". That is the crucial point Obama supporters fail to see time and time again.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. I want my president to know what to do without having to ask for someone else's advice.

Obama needs to spend 4/8 years as a VP, then go on to the POTUS.

Sorry we disagree about what is REALLY important.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Impressive? Yes. Whiz kid and deserving to be president? No.
Nothing you've posted here is very convincing that he's earned his stripes and ready to be president. Ambitious, President of the Harvard Law Review? I mean, come on. He has an impressive resume, no doubt, but probably the least impressive of all the Democratic candidates, only because he's the youngest. He's just not experienced enough to take on the world's toughest job. He talks a good game, but you put him in the White House and suddenly the rhetoric means nothing. Suddenly he's having to deal with massive militaries and wars, the world's largest economy on the verge of bankruptcy, endless problems in a country that is still very much divided, that is if he can even win, which is another gamble. You're obviously sold on the guy, but don't think just because you think he's the bee's knees that the rest of this country will find this intellectual Harvard man with limited experience so compelling.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. Well, you don't have to think he's the bee's knees if you don't want to...
I understand he's not everyone's cup of tea. But he may very well be President, and I have faith that he'll be a good one. And if he is, I hope he taps Joe for SecState, or at least for advice.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. I just think we have to go on something more than faith in choosing our presidents.
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Stop Cornyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
10. If Biden was called to serve his country as his ticket's VP, do you think he'd refuse that call?
Don't take the talk of Biden as VP or SoS personally, and don't take the denials so seriously.

Each candidate for president who later accepted a VP spot had earlier made a statement that he wouldn't accept the VP position. So long as a candidate is running for president, how can he or she possibly avoid refusing to consider the VP position (or SoS for that matter). For any candidate to acknowledge that he or she would accept the call to service as a VP candidate would be tantamount to resigning the race for the presidency.

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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Biden is a man of his word.
I have yet to find one instance that he has ever not done exactly what he said. He has repeatedly said, he's ok with going back to the senate. This is a all or nothing race for him. He doesn't say that out of arrogance or anything else. He says it, because he knows he's more effective in the senate, than he would ever be elsewhere, other than the presidency.

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Stop Cornyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Do you think keeping his word about not accepting VP is more important than serving his country?
I don't doubt that Biden would prefer to be in the Senate, but I want to think he's the kind of guy would would sacrifice his personal goal if he was called to serve his country in some other capacity, such as VP.

I think Richardson is flat-out running for VP. I don't think Biden is. But if Biden is half the man he holds himself out to be, then he would suffer the frustration of his personal preference to serve in the Senate in order to serve his country in the role his party leaders ask him to serve.

Frankly, I'd think less of any candidate who wouldn't run as VP if asked by their party and their party's nominee to serve in that capacity.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. He serves his country now.
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Stop Cornyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Isn't his son being deployed?
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. What's your point?
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Stop Cornyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. My point's that Biden's son's serving the country in a manner that's not his 1st choice assignment;
I suspect that Biden would also serve the country if asked to serve in a role that isn't Biden's 1st choice.

But you know him better that I do.

Perhaps you're right.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Ok, and I think Joe is a bigger service to this country...
in the senate, than he ever would be as a VP, or SOS. My opinion, on that, is based on all of the legislation this man pumps out, for the betterment of this country. And there is a ton of it.

My post from earlier today, is but a fraction of his impact, and service to this country. he is always looking for ways to make things better, despite some people disagreeing with some of it;



BIDEN Introduces Legislation to Eliminate Unjust Crack/Powder Cocaine Sentencing Disparity
Sen. Biden: The current sentencing structure for crack and powder cocaine is based on bogus notions and old logic. Its time to fix this unjustified disparity.
-----------------------------------

Biden Introduces Major Legislation Designed to Jump Start American Auto Industry

Washington, DC - To improve competition and jump start innovation in the American Auto Industry, U.S. Senator Joe Biden (D-DE) today introduced legislation that would significantly increase U.S. investment in the development of advanced lithium ion batteries, a product necessary to operate electric vehicles and produce the next generation of hybrids known as plug-in hybrids.


Biden's Bill, "The American Automobile Industry Promotion Act of 2007," authorizes $100 million a year for five years to advance this new technology - an amount double the Administration's current budget request.
--------------------------------------------------

Senator Joe Biden (DE) introduced legislation that would ensure full payment of U.S. dues for UN peacekeeping operations. Current U.S. law limits the U.S. contribution to the UN peacekeeping budget to 25%, despite being assessed at 26%. To date, this spending cap has created an estimated $100 million in permanent new debt to the UN. S. 392 would lift the spending cap to allow the U.S. to pay arrears accrued since 2005 and to pay its full share of assessed peacekeeping dues through 2008. Full U.S. contributions to UN peacekeeping operations will help ensure the UN has enough resources to help break cycles of violence as countries emerge from conflict.
------------------------------------------

Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., has introduced a bill that would expand counterfeit laws to cover digital music and movies and make it illegal to replicate authentication measures on copyrighted materials.

The introduction of S.B. 2395 Tuesday was praised by copyright holders such as Microsoft, which lose millions of dollars to software pirates each year.

--------------------------------------------

Sen. Biden was instrumental in passing the Darfur Peace and Accountability Act in the Senate.

He introduced a successful amendment to the supplemental appropriations bill to establish an Office of the Special Envoy for Sudan whose primary responsibility would be to push implementation of the Darfur Peace Agreement.

---------------------------------------------------

Biden introduced and repeatedly passed legislation urging the President to establish a NATO-led No Fly Zone over Darfur to prevent the Sudanese government from supplying the Janjaweed militia and attacking civilians. He introduced and passed legislation to establish a Special Envoy for Darfur.

-----------------------------------------------------

October 31, 2007 -- Washington, DC U.S. Senator Joseph R. Biden, Jr. (D-DE), Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime and Drugs and the Caucus on International Narcotics Control, introduced the Dextromethorphan Abuse Reduction Act of 2007, legislation that will curb the alarming rise in medicine abuse, including the misuse of cough and cold medicines containing Dextromethorphan (DXM).

Its not just pot or LSD or cocaine we have to worry about teens across the country are abusing over-the-counter cough and cold medicines to get high, sometimes with deadly consequences, said Sen. Joe Biden.

-------------------------------------

WASHINGTON, DC Today U.S. Senator Joe Biden (D-DE) introduced the Underground Railroad Network to Freedom Reauthorization Act of 2007, designed to preserve over 300 Underground Railroad-related programs and sites in 28 states including 9 in Delaware over the next several years.

The legislation will raise the authorized level of funding for the program from $500,000 to $2.5 million. Recent National Park Service financial estimates have shown the future of the network in great risk, as it will have a funding shortfall of over 79 percent by the year 2011 if no action is taken.

---------------------------------------------

May 25, 2007 -- Washington, DC - U.S. Senator Joseph R. Biden, Jr. (D-DE) introduced legislation (S.J. Res 15) today to repeal the original 2002 Iraq war authorization, replacing it with a much narrower mission statement for our troops in Iraq. The new mission - to start immediately - would be limited to: combating terrorists, training Iraqis and force protection for our troops. Sen. Biden's legislation requires that the President start withdrawing troops in 4 months and sets a goal of getting all troops that are unnecessary for the new mission out by March 2008. The legislation also specifically states that nothing in the new, limited authority allows the President to attack Iran or Syria.

----------------------------------------------------

February 8, 2007 -- WASHINGTON, DC - In order to address the shortage of FBI agents to combat violent crime, U.S. Senator Joseph R. Biden, Jr. (D-DE) today introduced legislation to add 1,000 FBI agents to focus exclusively on traditional criminal cases, such as drug trafficking and violent crime. This legislation will help ensure that the FBI has the resources to effectively achieve its counter-terrorism priorities, without abandoning its traditional crime fighting functions.

-------------------------------------------------

September 27, 2007 -- Washington, DC Former Chairman and senior member of the Senate Judiciary Committee Joseph R. Biden, Jr. (D-DE) introduced the Procedural Fairness for September 11th Victims Act (S. 2106) today, legislation to ensure that those 9/11 victims and their families who have opted out of receiving compensation through the 9/11 Victims Compensation Fund and bring civil suits instead, have access to all the information relevant to the case.

---------------------------------------------------






Really, there are just too many to list. But among the most significant, the plan for Iraq, Violence against women, Rave act, Biden crime bill, etc....not to mention hundreds of bills he has co-sponsored, many that have passed.

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Stop Cornyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. No doubt YOU (and maybe Joe) feel that way, but if the Democratic nominee feels differently and asks
Joe to serve his country in the thankless and unglamourous role of VP, I think Biden is willing to make the sacrifice.

If you think that Biden would tell his party and his party's nominee "I know better how I want to serve the country -- go find yourself another wingman," then you maybe have a different (and possibly more accurate) understanding of Joe Biden.

In your heart, don't you think Joe would say "no thanks, no thanks, no thanks" right up until his party's nominee said, "Joe I need your help, our party needs your help, and our country needs your help."

I want to believe Joe would say "yes" when our party's nominee, our party, and our country asked for his help, don't you?

If not, he probably wouldn't be a good VP anyway because a good VP candidate and a good VP has to be some who can put the greater good over their own personal ambition and pride because there are no children in America saying "I want to be VP when I grow up." It takes a rare person who would put their party's interest over their own pride, ambition, and ego to serve as the number 2.

Does that sound like Joe or not?
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. We're just going to have to disagree I guess.
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Stop Cornyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. No. I guess you know Biden better. You've convinced me he isn't the type who'd serve as wingman.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. If serving his country was Obama's main objective he'd have waited ...
until he had the experience necessary so that he goes in there knowing he can do a good job. Instead, ambition has driven him to gamble with our nation's future by jumping into something he knows little about. I don't appreciate someone gambling with my country. Bush did it and it's been the worst thing that's happened to us since the Civil War. This is not a game. I was so enthusiastic about Obama after hearing his speech at the 2004 Democratic Convention. I thought, here's a future president. But I was shocked and disappointed when he decided to run for president after just 2 years in the senate. It showed poor judgment on his part, judgment blinded by ambition. It's really too bad. Now I'm as unenthusiastic about him as I am Hillary. Americans are just too shallow minded and easily swayed.
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Stop Cornyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #25
37. I presume if our nominee came to Obama and said "our country needs you now," Obama would accept.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. I presume that as well.
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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
29. I don't think it has to do with "personal preference"
Biden will go where he can serve the country the best and if it isn't in the White House, it should be as Chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. Biden leaving the senate will leave a great void and would only be justified if he movies to a position where he can do more.

As for the VP slot, I think we need to consider someone younger, who will be ready to step into the presidency in 8 years.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
26. That's what every candidate says
I wouldn't make so much out of it.
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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
27. Biden is a man who says what he means, and I'm sure he means this.
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 08:51 PM by calteacherguy
I can understand prefering his role in the senate to somebody's VP.

I wish him all the best.

Obama/Clark is my dream ticket. I'm allowed to dream, right?
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Think82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
28. Biden can write and pass legislation is the senate (which he is best at). He can't do it as VP.
That's the reason he wouldn't take VP, IMHO. What does the VP do anyway, if the president is not a complete moron? Be a tie-breaker in the Senate? It's not because Biden doesn't want to play second fiddle out of ego or anything.

I don't really like this animosity between Obama and Biden supporters. I am a Biden supporter and that won't change... I think he's the best nominee in virtually every way, and am incredibly frustrated that Barack and the others get more attention (especially for saying something Biden said first... Barack does this a lot, as does hillary, then they get credit for it instead of Joe). But WHATEVER, I like Obama and am not going to belittle him out of frustration. I'd like him as Biden's VP. If he gets the nom, I have faith he'd make a good president. Of course I KNOW Biden would.

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