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Is it BETTER to have Obama vetted NOW...or LATER...?

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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:35 PM
Original message
Is it BETTER to have Obama vetted NOW...or LATER...?
When the Republican Attack machine is in full swing and Obama looks like he is going to be the Nominee?

MNDemNY, posed this question in another thread:

"Maybe now would be better, don't you think? To characterize this as an attack on Obama is ridiculous. His admissions have raised questions that must be addressed."

It is a valid question- seeing the potential of a Dem presidency may be affected by the known ferocity of the Republicans. Again, we will be falling prey to the Republicans dictating the outcome of yet another presidential election.

Which is better? Finding out NOW or LATER the particulars of Obama's drug addiction? Especially when we already know Obama's past is putting another Dem presidency at risk?
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. If you want to know if we mind that Hillary wants to piss on Barak now...
sure. Fire away.

BTW--"Obama's drug addiction?"

What "addiction?" I don't recall him referring to his dalliances as any kind of addiction.

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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Didn't he say in front of a crowd of students..
His last few years in HS were spent in a daze?
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Does that make him an "addict?"
Pretty loose definition.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
39. Who knows what Obama's definition of addict is?
I sure don't!
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NewHampster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
57. and I never inhaled either
He pisses me off when he speaks to kids and uses the PC "I experimented with drugs". Bullshit!

lay it out if you want to admit it.

I didn't experiment with drugs. I fucking loved them.

But I gave them up 25 years ago because I didn't want my kids wasting their brain cells.

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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. No question, now would be better, which is why Obama brought it up in the first place.
He's a smart guy. Making the issue a public one now was a smart move.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. Now he was addicted to drugs?
Geez. The only drug it looks like he was ever addicted to is nicotine - which he has quit or is still in the process of quiting.

You guys just keep adding extra crap that is bulls@#$ which is why you get called on it.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Are you that much out of the loop?
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. LOL. Hardly. Why? What did I miss? Tell me.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. "Past Cocaine Use Could Haunt Obama"


If Democrat rising star Barack Obama decides to run for president in 2008, some observers say that his admission of past drug use -- including cocaine -- could become a campaign issue, the Washington Post reported Jan. 3.

In "Dreams From My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance," a memoir written by Obama more than a decade ago, the Illinois junior Senator said he used drugs in high school and college. "Junkie. Pothead. That's where I'd been headed: the final, fatal role of the young would-be black man," wrote Obama. "I got high push questions of who I was out of my mind."

"Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow when you could afford it. Not smack, though," said Obama, 45, who said he needed to be honest so that "young people who are already in circumstances that are far more difficult than mine to know that you can make mistakes and still recover."

Obama's comments also sport a tinge of racist overtones.. in his own words:

Obama also deals extensively with racial issues in the book, writing, "We were always playing on the white man's court . . . by the white man's rules. If the principal, or the coach, or a teacher ... wanted to spit in your face, he could, because he had the power and you didn't ... The only thing you could choose was withdrawal into a smaller and smaller coil of rage. And the final irony: should you refuse this defeat and lash out at your captors ... they would have a name for that too. Paranoid. Militant."
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. He said that's where he was headed.
It's not where he was, you know, actually at.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. He never got caught is what he basically means..
Laughingly, he's also said that before..
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
31. You do realize that I'm not actually committed to Obama, right?
And that you're making a jackass of yourself by harping on this issue?
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. If thats your opinion...everyone is entitled...even me!
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. I actually read the book. Maybe you should try it. You would be better informed if you did.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
66. The self styled president to be is not noted for Truthtelling..
In fact, I read several reviews where Obama did a little embellishing to make the book more interesting..
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #66
73. he embellished his book on a PR junket!!!???
heavens!!!!!
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #73
76. Here is a list compiled by the media of Obama's (cough) embellishments!
Monday, April 09, 2007

Obama's Top Ten Fabrications.. in descending order:

#10: Obama Was A Constitutional Law Professor:


At A Recent Fundraiser, Obama Claimed He Was A "Constitutional Law Professor." "'I was a constitutional law professor, which means unlike the current president I actually respect the Constitution,' Obama told an audience at a campaign fundraiser." (Brendan Farrington, "Obama: Bush Fails To Respect The Constitution," The Associated Press, 3/30/07)

* On The University Of Chicago Law School Website, Obama Is Listed As A "Senior Lecturer In Law (On Leave Of Absence)." (University Of Chicago Law School Website, http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/obama, Accessed 3/30/07)

Obama Made This False Claim In His 2004 Senate Race. "Several direct-mail pieces issued for Obama's primary campaign said he was a law professor at the University of Chicago. He is not. He is a senior lecturer (now on leave) at the school. In academia, there is a vast difference between the two titles. Details matter." (Lynn Sweet, "Obama's Book: What's Real, What's Not" Chicago Sun-Times, 8/8/04)


#9: Obama's Parents "Got Together" Because Of The 1965 Selma March:

In His Selma Speech, Obama Said His Parents "Got Together" And He Was Born As A Result Of The Selma March. Obama: "Because some folks were willing to march across a bridge. So they got together and Barack Obama, Jr. was born. So don't tell me I don't have a claim on Selma, Alabama." (Senator Barack Obama, Remarks At Brown Chapel AME Church, Selma, AL, 3/4/07)

* "Earlier In The Day At A Prayer Breakfast, The Illinois Democrat Said: 'If It Hadn't Been For Selma, I Wouldn't Be Here.'" (Anne E. Kornblut and Peter Whoriskey, "Clinton, Obama Link Selma March To Present," The Washington Post, 3/5/07)

But Obama Was Born In 1961, 4 YEARS BEFORE The 1965 Selma March. "Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on August 4th, 1961." (Obama For America Website, www.barackobama.com, Accessed 3/6/07; Anne E. Kornblut and Peter Whoriskey, "Clinton, Obama Link Selma March To Present," The Washington Post, 3/5/07)



#8: Obama Was Fluent In Indonesian As A Child:

Obama's Claim That He Quickly Became Fluent In Indonesian As A Child Was Disputed By A Former Teacher. "Obama has claimed on numerous occasions to have become fluent in Indonesian in six months. Yet those who knew him disputed that during recent interviews. Israella Pareira Darmawan, Obama's 1st-grade teacher, said she attempted to help him learn the Indonesian language by going over pronunciation and vowel sounds. He struggled greatly with the foreign language, she said, and with his studies as a result." (Kirsten Scharnberg and Kim Barker, "The Not-So-Simple Story Of Barack Obama's Youth," Chicago Tribune, 3/25/07)



#7: Obama Mistakenly Received A Letter From A Company In Which He Owned Stock:

"Obama Said At Some Point In Fall 2005 He Got A Stockholder Letter. He Said He Believes It Was From AVI Or Skyterra, But He Couldn't Remember Which Company." (Nedra Pickler, "Obama Unaware Of Investment Conflicts," The Associated Press, 3/7/07)

* According To SEC Records, SkyTerra Did Not Send Investors Its SEC Proxy Forms In Fall 2005. "The origin of the shareholder update Obama referred to remains unclear. SkyTerra, like many public companies, sends investors copies of its Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) proxy forms, also known as 14As, but none were issued during the fall of 2005, according to SEC records." (Elana Schor, "2008 And Counting: Sen. Obama Pivots After Bad Press," The Hill, 3/8/07)

* AVI Investor-Relations Director: "It Doesn't Sound Like Anything We Would Have Sent Out." "AVI generally sends mailings to shareholders or institutional investors that proactively request them or sign up for e-mail lists, said Michael Hubbard, AVI's investor-relations director. 'It doesn't sound like anything we would have sent out,' Hubbard said." (Elana Schor, "2008 And Counting: Sen. Obama Pivots After Bad Press," The Hill, 3/8/07)


#6: Obama's Campaign Only Had "Very Attenuated" Ties To The "1984" Ad Creator:

Obama Suggested That "1984" Ad Creator Phil De Vellis Was The Equivalent Of A Contract Employee And Therefore Could Not Be Held Responsible For His Conduct. "Thursday, Obama said of de Vellis that his campaign had no way of knowing who this person was.' 'If I have a phone contract with Verizon and an employee of a phone company does something that you know ... we're not responsible for that,' Obama said." (Jake Tapper and Jonathan Greenberger, "Anti-Clinton Ad Maker Lived With Obama Senate Staffer," ABC News, 3/23/07)

De Vellis Is An Employee Of Blue State Digital, A Computer Firm Consulting For Obama. "Obama's campaign says it had no role in creating or posting the ad. But Wednesday, Democratic operative Philip de Vellis took credit for the ad. It turned out that he worked for Blue State Digital, a computer firm that is among Obama's consultants." (Dan Morain, "Ad Creator Claimed Role In Obama Campaign," Los Angeles Times, 3/23/07)

* Joe Rospars, A Co-Founder Of Blue State Digital, Is Now Obama's Director Of New Media. "Blue State helped design Obama's Web site, and one of the firm's founding members, Joe Rospars, took a leave from the company to work as Obama's director of new media." (Jim Kuhnhenn, "Anti-Clinton Ad Puts Spotlight On Obama," The Associated Press, 3/23/07)

"On Thursday, An Earlier E-Mail Surfaced In Which De Vellis Boasted To Numerous People About His Role In The Creation Of A Web Page, My.BarackObama. Com, A Site Designed By Blue State Digital." (Dan Morain, "Ad Creator Claimed Role In Obama Campaign," Los Angeles Times, 3/23/07)

Obama's Press Secretary Recently Lived With De Vellis, Undermining Obama's Previous Statements That His Campaign Had Only "Very Attenuated" Ties. "The press secretary for Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., recently lived with the creator of the scathingly satirical YouTube video ad that attacked Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., a revelation that seems to undermine the senator's claim that he and his campaign had only 'very attenuated' ties with the ad's creator." (Jake Tapper and Jonathan Greenberger, "Anti-Clinton Ad Maker Lived With Obama Senate Staffer," ABC News, 3/23/07)



#5: Obama's Campaign Didn't Have The "Technical Capacity" To Produce The "1984" Ad:

Obama Claims Campaign Didn't Have The "Technical Capacity" To Create The Ad. Obama: "But it's not something that we had anything to do with or were aware of and that frankly, given what it looks like, we don't have the technical capacity to create something like that." (CNN's "Larry King Live," 3/24/07)

But The Creator Admitted All It Took Was A "Sunday Afternoon" On His Mac. Phillip de Vellis: "I made the ad on a Sunday afternoon in my apartment using my personal equipment (a Mac and some software), uploaded it to YouTube, and sent links around to blogs." (The Huffington Post, "I Made the "Vote Different" Ad," Posted By Phil De Vellis, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/phil-de-vellis-aka-parkri ... Posted 3/21/07 )



#4: Obama's Campaign Claimed His High School Friend Tried To Extort Money From Them:

"According To The Obama Campaign, Kakugawa Explicitly Raised The Possibility That He Could Make Up False Stories About Obama, Implying He Would Do So If The Campaign Did Not Give Him Money." (Maurice Possley, Kirsten Scharnberg and Ray Gibson, "An Old Friend's Troublesome Return," Chicago Tribune, 3/25/07)

Kakugawa Was "Infuriated" By The Charge And Flatly Denied It. "That allegation infuriated Kakugawa, prompting him to speak to the Tribune after repeatedly refusing to do so. 'You must understand, I am not an extortionist,' he said in a telephone interview from Los Angeles, where he is living out of a car with an acquaintance after being released from a California prison on March 10. 'Listen, I'm homeless. ... I ask everyone I know for money.'" (Maurice Possley, et al, "An Old Friend's Troublesome Return," Chicago Tribune, 3/25/07)
* "Kakugawa Wouldn't Discuss His School Days With Obama Other Than To Say He Considered The Senator 'A Brother' And 'Wouldn't Do A Damn Thing To Ever Hurt His Campaign.'" (Maurice Possley, et al, "An Old Friend's Troublesome Return," Chicago Tribune, 3/25/07)


#3: Obama Places Himself In The Central Role In The Altgeld Gardens Asbestos Campaign:

Obama "Unfairly Omits Others Responsible For The Successes Of The Asbestos Campaign." "And though most memoirs place their authors at the center of events, critics of Dreams From My Father say the book unfairly omits others responsible for the successes of the asbestos campaign, an event that Obama portrays as central to his maturation as a political leader." (Peter Wallsten, "Obama Memoir Left Out Credits For Activism, Critics Say," Los Angeles Times, 2/19/07)

"Obama Did Not Play The Singular Role In The Asbestos Episode." "They say Obama did not play the singular role in the asbestos episode that he portrays in the best-selling memoir 'Dreams From My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance.' Credit for pushing officials to deal with the cancer-causing substance, according to interviews and news accounts from that period, also goes to a well-known preexisting group at Altgeld Gardens and to a local newspaper called the Chicago Reporter. Obama does not mention either one in his book." (Peter Wallsten, "Obama Memoir Left Out Credits For Activism, Critics Say," Los Angeles Times, 2/19/07)



#2: Obama Had Heated Discussions With A High School Friend Named "Ray" About Racial Issues:

Although Obama Recounts "Heated Conversations About Racism" With A Character He Calls "Ray," The Real "Ray" Says It Never Happened. "In his best-selling autobiography, 'Dreams from My Father,' Obama describes having heated conversations about racism with another black student, 'Ray.' The real Ray, Keith Kakugawa . . . said he does recall long, soulful talks with the young Obama and that his friend confided his longing and loneliness. But those talks, Kakugawa said, were not about race. 'Not even close' . . ." (Kirsten Scharnberg and Kim Barker, "The Not-So-Simple Story Of Barack Obama's Youth," Chicago Tribune, 3/25/07)

Obama Did Not Participate In Discussions On Race With His Fellow Black Classmates In High School. "The handful of black students who attended Punahou School in Hawaii, for instance, say they struggled mightily with issues of race and racism there. But absent from those discussions, they say, was another student then known as Barry Obama." (Kirsten Scharnberg and Kim Barker, "The Not-So-Simple Story Of Barack Obama's Youth," Chicago Tribune, 3/25/07)



#1: Seeing A Photograph In Life Or Ebony Magazine Changed Obama's Life:

The Life Magazine Article And Photograph Obama Discusses "Doesn't Exist." "Then there's the copy of Life magazine that Obama presents as his racial awakening at age 9. In it, he wrote, was an article and two accompanying photographs of an African-American man physically and mentally scarred by his efforts to lighten his skin. In fact, the Life article and the photographs don't exist, say the magazine's own historians." (Kirsten Scharnberg and Kim Barker, "The Not-So-Simple Story Of Barack Obama's Youth," Chicago Tribune, 3/25/07)

Obama Volunteered It May Have Been Ebony Magazine, But No Such Ebony Article Matched Obama's Description. "When asked about the discrepancy, Obama said in a recent interview, 'It might have been an Ebony or it might have been ... who knows what it was?' (At the request of the Tribune, archivists at Ebony searched their catalogue of past articles, none of which matched what Obama recalled.)" (Kirsten Scharnberg and Kim Barker, "The Not-So-Simple Story Of Barack Obama's Youth," Chicago Tribune, 3/25/07)

It shouldn't be a GIANT leap for Obama supporters to understand why others do not share their enthusiasm for their candidate's propensity for unauthenticity.


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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #76
84. kick!
:dem:
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Labors of Hercules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #76
86. Sorry, couldn't get past #3 before the spin made me dizzy...
You Hillarites are worse than Goebbels.
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #86
90. they are bad
but let's leave the nazi party comparisons alone for now, please.
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #76
91. it's really not worth the time to debunk these
or put them in the context of inaccuracies Hillary has made over the years.

He wasn't able to correctly identify a magazine title from when he was 9 and that's the #1 inaccuracy? are you fucking kidding me?
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
68. They have absolutely nothing, so they have to keep dragging
this out. Pretty pathetic. I thought the new thinking was to highlight your candidate's accomplishments, not shit on others. I thought wrong obviously.
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. It Would Be Dirty Smear Later and Would Be Just as Effective
The American people are remarkably forgiving of people if they make a legitimate change in their lives. If someone changes for the wrong reasons - like, say, Mitt Romney - they can smell it a mile away.

But Americans are willing to forgive and forget the past indiscretions of people like Ronald Reagan, George Bush, and Robert Byrd.

This was a pretty low tactic and the Clinton machine will burn for it, particularly in Iowa where they have a low threshold for this kind of thing (thankfully).
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. I'll bet we can find PLENTY of black and white teens who sampled Poppy Bush's cocaine
that he was dumping by the tons all over America, especially into black communities during the IranContra stage of his decades of drugrunning operations.

I think the public SHOULD hear more about this and demand the books be opened on these dealings.

;)
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
36. Interesting... If Bush was Obama's source..
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. He already vetted himself in his book, which everyone is free to
go to a bookstore or library, pick up, and give a read.

And yes, the primary process is about vetting among other things like a campaign platform, retail politicking, debating, fundraising, being interviewed by the media, and so on. Vetting is right in there. But it is about vetting EVERYONE. I don't see the point in singling out Obama.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. Is that really your thought process and how you define vetting a politician running for president?
Oh, sorry, you mean the way Michael Jackson voluntarily vetted himself.

I forgot how that worked out.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Wow, there is no bottom with you.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. "Logic " doesn't show favoritism..
you just have to know it exists and try using it once in awhile.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. "...in Iowa where they have a low threshold for this kind of thing ..."
Yeah they do. Very low threshold for candidates who did drugs as kids and then telling other kids all about it during election campaigns.

In fact, that is precisely what Mitt Romney called him on when Obama himself brought up that "youthful indiscretion".

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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
13. What's going on now is peanuts compared to what the repukes would do to him in a general election
If Obama wrote what he wrote about his past drug use, you can bet your bottom dollar that he was trying to diffuse a future bombshell that might come out about him sometime in the future, with that future soon becoming the present. However, people are so naive if they think there isn't more to this story.

Obama obviously knows that there are people out there who know about his past who are bound to come forward at just the opportune time for them to cash in, so what better to do than to write and talk about it to make it look like end of story, when for all anyone knows, there could be a lot more to it than what's already on paper.

Either way, the repukes are just licking their chops.
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PresidentObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Yes I'm sure they'd LOVE Obama over the woman who fifty percent of America WON'T vote for...
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 02:10 PM by Kerry2008
I'm sure drug use in his TEENAGE years is going to kill that lead he has in Iowa, too.

:sarcasm:
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PresidentObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
17. Trash thread from a member of the His44 crowd.
SHOCKING!!

:sarcasm:
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Shocking you take anybodies word for anything they say about themselves as the TRUTH!
Good for you!..I want more!
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
19. The spinmeisters are clawing savagely to gain a handhold on this story.
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 02:10 PM by Forkboy
And it's fucking funny as hell to witness. :rofl:
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
20. Now. It's called "rehearsal". That goes for everyone.
The idea of being sweet and accepting to brother and sister Democrats is sheer idiocy, and this is especially true with the moronically foreshortened primary season.

We sit here facing the reality of being less than a month away from a frenzied month that will probably determine the nominee-apparent on February 5th. This gives the reactionaries NINE MONTHS to hammer our champion remorselessly, and they're REALLY GOOD AT IT. The idea of being polite and demure is infantile.

EVERYONE should be standing the test of fire right now, and everyone should be willing to have his/her candidate run the gauntlet as well; we're all in this together (at least somewhat) and we should be respectful of the common good and REALITY.

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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Thank You!
It's seems the "voice of reason" is in a minority in the Obama Camp!
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
23. Obama's use of drugs as a teenager as an issue is ALREADY backfiring
Look at the polls in Iowa where his admitted use of drugs as a teen are fully documented in his book are being used as an attack by the Hillarylanders.

IT IS BACKFIRING!

So if the Republicans want to bring it up as an issue, hey, go for it!

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
24. When is Hillary going to disclose her own drug use?
And yes, I'm sure there was some. Not that I give a shit.

This has gotta be the funkiest version of this song I've ever heard.

All you Hillbots sing along now........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy8KL16Qs84
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. This is a question within a voter's perogative to ask..
So if you want to know, ask her yourself.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
42. What makes you so "sure?"
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Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #42
61. When Bill was "not inhaling" wouldn't Hillary have been nearby?
And besides, right here in this picture, they both look baked to me.

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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #61
74. Thanks for the pic. My have they changed. n/t
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #61
81. I've always loved that picture.
But this thread is making me ill.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
27. By all means, let's have Hillaryworld swift boat Obama now by "wondering" if he was a drug dealer
Who needs Republicans when we have Clintonians?
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Obama brought it up..and you've been told before in another thread...this is not swiftboating..
I know it won't deter you from your goal of flinging mud at Hillary on a daily basis.

But I will question you on the abuse of the term "swiftboating; when it doesn't apply!
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #32
53. No, he did not say he was a drug dealer... but Bill Shaheen was "wondering" about it to a reporter
You are nothing better than a Mark Penn surrogate. Fortunately, there are many in Iowa who agree with me about Hillary's slimy negative campaign tricks.
Clintonian lies and smears are killing her campaign and I couldn't be happier.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #53
79. Well, I hope you've officially resigned from the Clinton campaign..
what was that video about? You were a Precinct Captain?
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #79
92. See video and judge for yourself whether Hillary's negative attacks on Obama have been worth it
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
30. Oh, I get it now ! HRCs personal attacks = Vetting ! Thanks for clearing that up.
It's amazing how HRC and her supporters elevate the discourse in this campaign.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. So answer the question! NOW or LATER?
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Do you want to win the War on Terror?? Yes or NO??
Yes or No !

(you guys are entirely too predictable, and kinda scary!)
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. What War on Terror? Your version or Bushs'?
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
38. Problem with your "vetting" effort is that it alienates Hillary's own supporters
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 02:41 PM by BeyondGeography
who are more than ready to switch to Obama. I speak here of black voters, who are primed to turn on HRC with a vengeance if she keeps it up, especially when they see Obama beat her in predominantly white states.

More simply put: Bad strategy.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. I welcome your threats of alienating Hillary supporters..
We do not need or want people around us for the upcoming fight who flee at the slightest bump in the road..Good Riddance to them dear friend..I hope they do better for you than they did for Hillary!
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. This is up in the PV forum right now
The exodus comes in many colors:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXPnMflGkvI
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #45
52. Apparently, the poor woman never saw Obama or Edwards attacks either..
If that is her reasoning, she may not have been a democrat at all.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
41. Anybody here ever do drugs? Maybe the kids...?
And you don't think that the next question after someone admits to doing drugs is to ask whether there was any dealing?

But if someone asks that simple question it's gutter politics?

Whatta crock of crap!
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
43. If Obama can't take the heat
he should leave the race, it is much better to get this cocaine thing on the table now then wait for the republicans to use it to hurt Obama in a general election.

It only makes the nominee stronger to get the bad stuff out of the way first.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. Yup, even if i makes Obama's supporters here uncomfortable..
This is a big decision electing the next President. I'm not interested in electing one in the dark. Let him step out into the light and subject himself to public scrutiny, like the Clinton did..
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
46. WTF, now it's a 'drug addiction'?
Tell, you're desperate posts keep getting more and more embarrassing.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Read the thread Dawgs...and it's not what you think!
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
48. So, you'd be okay with Obama 'vetting' all of Hillary's KNOWN flaws...
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 02:43 PM by Dawgs
And possibly accusing her of being a murderer, drug dealer, etc.?
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Hillary has been vetted for the past 15 years.
:eyes:
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Where have you been? Hillary has been investigated for over 15 yrs.. and $60M later...zilch!
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 02:47 PM by Tellurian
Republicans found nothing! Stop now, you're embarrassing yourself letting people know how much you DON'T KNOW!
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #51
87. Amen! Hillary's laundry has been hanging out there for everyone to see for 15 years
so one thing we won't have to worry about when she gets the nod is any rightwingers from here or anywhere else coming up with any dirt on her. The blades of their shovels are worn right down to the handle in their futile attempts at looking. If they haven't come up with anything by now on ANY Clinton, they never will.
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NewHampster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
54. I agree and disagree
I think the scum will use the drug thing but Obama may be able to turn it back at them like their Drunk Shrub did on the DUI.

But the point is correct to get this shit out now. The man is not God and he does have faults the rethugs will stick their nasty little knives into.

Hillary has been vetted for 15 years.

Hillary is My 44
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Franc_Lee Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
55. NOTE: This post is from a Hillary supporter, what else would you expect ?!?...
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NewHampster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. Oh my Gawd! A Hillary supporter on DU
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 03:18 PM by NewHampster
what has become of this place that we let them post here?

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Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. Damned if I know
They used to kick republicans out of here ;)
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NewHampster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. Will Dennis be allowed in the 1/5 NH debate?
I sure hope so because I'd love to get a look at Elizabeth up close.
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annie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #55
94. i would hope that we would expect more. it is valid except for the...
comment about the drug addiction. I think it makes more sense to say what can we expect from a hillary44 supporter
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
56. This cracks me up.
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 03:17 PM by Bleachers7
I saw Vilsack saying something like this. He was basically sayign that people should vote for Hillary because we already know how bad she is. We don't know how bad Obama might be. Makes a lot of sense. :crazy:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
59. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. Kick!
:dem:
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
62. How do I get on the weekly talking points list? n/t
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Carrieyazel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
64. How does Obama "look like he's going to be the nominee"?
And the same for Hillary. Being in the top two is NOT a good place to be for a Democrat heading to Iowa and New Hampshire. The voters like to pull a surprise. And Edwards and Richardson are poised to spring.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
67. Looks like "vetted" is the euphemism of the day...
:P
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
69. This sort of thing is why Hillary is dropping in the polls. You are hurting Hillary, Tellurian.
Is your purpose to hurt Hillary's campaign? That's exactly what you are achieving with this nonsense.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #69
75. No, David...we're not living in virtual reality..
The real world I live in wants to know the History of Obama's drug use. You seem to forget DU is not the average representation of America. I as a US Citizen have a right to know everything I should and can know about the politician who will be the next occupant of our the Oval Office. Not to mention the representative sent as my Nominee to the General Election against the Republican nominee who I may have to defend against Republican attacks.

Please don't patronize people who want to know, as I do, everything pertinent regarding the next CIC of our country. You amaze me at your willingness to stifle free discussion with no more than a nuanced excuse crafted into a threat of hurting Hillary's chances for election. I thought better of you.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #75
88. Tellurian, Hillary will not gain the nomination by stoking fears about Obama.
Hillary Clinton is a very strong and credible candidate for President in her own right. That's where her supporters and staff should be focused. I can list a hundred reasons why I think she would be a good president.

But, that said, there's no mistaking that the drug charges and such is dragging her down as polls are indicating.

Iowans and Americans are looking for something better, something to believe IN.

The media is filled with those who will dig up anything they can on Obama and any of our candidates who look like they have a chance.

When Hillary's supporters do the dirty work for the media, it boomerangs back against her.

If it doesn't stop, she will lose Iowa and New Hampshire and then South Carolina will be lost, too.

Take a clue from John Edwards who stopped the attacks on Hillary and then saw his numbers rise once again.

I am going to dog all the campaigns when they attack their opponents on personal issues. I gave the Edwards crowd hell about the piling on against Hillary and I will do it to all.

I don't want any of our candidates smeared by any of the other candidates. Period.

Start a positive thread why you like Hillary. It will go a lot further than this lurind nonsense that make you look smaller than I know you to be.

Tell us why you like Hillary. If you do, then I'll join that thread happily, too.

I won't post anymore here because I've made my point and it is your thread.

All the best.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #69
77. That's not the point. Do you want Hillary to vet these candidates NOW or Later??
I'm surprised you're trying to stifle free speech, David. Are you a communist or a republican?
:sarcasm:
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. Better you should pm him directly..
we don't necessarily need to be privy to the nattering underbelly motivating your politics or posts.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. Why do you want to stifle free speech?
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. Have you arrived at a Now or Later decision?
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. I'll arrive at one either now or later.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
70. Now is better.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
71. K&R!
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
72. It's MUCH better to do it now. Especially since it's causing Hillary to crater
Please Hillary, "vet" him some more.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
85. I favor vetting now, but your OP bothers me, and it bothers me a lot.
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 05:20 PM by Tom Rinaldo
And I happen defend to Hillary's right to raise the issue that she has been more thoroughly vetted than any of her competitors, because I think that is a legitimate point in her favor. She took the bruises for having the Right wing go after her for 15 years, she deserves to take credit for still standing strong despite it.

But your OP is something else. Your OP suddenly moves the bar and now Obama didn't just experiment with drugs as a youth, now you talk about his alleged "drug addiction". I'm sorry but that sucks, and I am someone who supports Clinton over Obama. And we know nothing of the sort about your last assertion. Whether or not Obama has the ability to handle heat thrown at him about his youth or anything else may be relevent to know, and now better than later. But we do not "already know" that his past is putting another Dem presidency at risk, at least I sure as hell don't know that.

To me that may be an advantage of Clinton - we pretty much know the type of crap that gets thrown against her and how she handles it while we know a bit less about how Obama handles heat. But there is nothing about Obama's past that I have even heard hinted at by anyone that puts a Democratic Presidency at risk IF he is up to the task of defending himself and fighting back effectively. Certainly not adolescent drug use. I think Obama's full life story, all of it in total including the good the bad and the ugly, can be a net asset to him if he becomes our nominee, IF he is skilled enough politically to play his cards correctly under pressure. That uncertainty is my only concern about it. If he can it might help insure that Democrats win the Presidency, not the opposite.

Clinton has a point that the much raking against Obama has barely really begun and would only hit full swing if he becomes our nominee. But it is always possible that Obama might do an even better job defending himself and hitting back than Hillary has. We don't know yet. The argument that can fairly be used against Obama is not the ugly spin you push here. Obama has not been tested as thoroughly in his ability to manage and withstand the type of high level nasty politics that the national Repbulican Party specializes in as has Hillary. That is the full extent of the valid argument. Stop waving hot button flags about Drug Addiction and at least stick to what Obama has written himself.

P.S. I am going to go kick the thread that I posted last night; "The Negative of Being Hillary" because I think that is a much more fair look at the type of issue that you attempted to raise here.
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
89. More of the same from Tellurian
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annie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-15-07 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
93. You are a sad excuse for a hillary supporter if you..
are calling him a drug addict. Obviously Hil 44 is a republican site. If you alienate Obama supporters, and Hil wins the nomination then they will not vote for her.
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