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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:54 AM
Original message
So we are all supposed to believe that the Rethugs will be too high-minded
to use Obama's admissions about past drug use against him, should he be the nominee?

Even though they attacked Clinton for admitting to marijuana use, and Bush never actually admitted to his own use of cocaine?

Is this why there is such universal condemnation for Shaheen? I didn't see his full comments, but what I saw didn't seem unreasonable. The Rethugs will throw whatever mud they can find. They won't hold back on anything. Remember Willie Horton?

I'm not saying this is a reason to withdraw support for Obama. But we should be prepared for such attacks, because they will come.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. It didn't stop Bush from being elected.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Bush wasn't really elected
was he.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Excellent point. n/t
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Bush never admitted to using anything stronger than marijuana and alcohol.
All he said was "When I was young and irresponsible, I was young and irresponsible."
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
37. Bush admitted to using maijuana?
I don't remember that.
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Thats because he was their guy. They will run anything and everything that they can think of
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 11:07 AM by wlucinda
against our nom. They turned Kerry's service record agaisnt him, with flat out lies.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Newsflash: the rules are different for Republicans.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
19. Didn't stop Clinton either
Despite the fact that he didn't inhale. I actually think bills didn't inhale line did more damage than actual pot smoking would have.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
5. No, but we should expect fellow Dems to be a little more so
Shaheen's smear was on a par with what Bush did to McCain in SC in 2000. It wasn't just mentioning Obama's (admitted) youthful drug experimentation, it was the intimation that Obama was a serious drug abuser and even a dealer. Disgusting. Talk about handing the GOP something to use against him.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I didn't see that intimation. Do you have a link by any chance? n/t
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. It's not that hard to Google a few words and find it but since you need me to do that here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/20...

Very first entry that comes up. You'll see Shaheen's quote about halfway down. His comment was concern trolling at it's finest.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Okay, thank you. But I'm still not convinced that what he said was inaccurate.
The Rethugs WILL attack Obama in this manner, and it will be something Obama will need to overcome. All candidates have their vulnerabilities, and this will be one of Obama's. There is no question that there will be Rethug dirty tricks and smears -- the question is how the various candidates will handle them.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. What the fuck is accurate about suggesting Obama was a drug dealer? Hmm? nt
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. What is accurate is that the Rethugs may very well ask the questions
and look for any dirt regarding Obama's drug use that they can find.

And Obama better be prepared to answer them.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Yeah kinda like how Rove smeared McCain's family life and POW experience
Out of concern that Gore was going to bring those things up in the General. KKKarl was just trying to help John McCain. Just like Clinton campaign is trying to troll...uh...I mean...help Obama right now. :eyes:
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
6. Even if they don't, they'll just make shit up.
I think(?) Obama has shown he can handle attacks. I'm not sure how this one's playing out in Peoria, tho.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. Not at all I fully expect them to use it
I also fully expect to see Obama rise to the ocasion and use it to his advantage and the advantage of kids all over the country as an oportunity to talk about drug use.

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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. So why is what Shaheen said so awful? n/t
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. because he is trying to spin it into
Being a drug dealer gang banger. Its dishonest and disgusting.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. He was saying the Rethugs will try to spin it that way. And won't they? n/t
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #22
36. They absolutely will
The fact that its a supposed dem thats the first to do it is what makes it disgusting and disingenuous, but I am quite sure you are aware of that.

I doubt this would even be an issue for you if it werent backfiring so badly on her campaign and I think the pukes will get the same reaction.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #36
49. You're wrong. I don't have a preference between Obama, Clinton, and Edwards.
I would be happy with any of the three, assuming none of them is crippled in the primary process.

(I do wish Edwards hadn't had to limit himself to federal financing, however.)
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
11. just wait till they go off on Hillary's woman parts
it's gonna be disasterous no matter who runs. :cry:
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
12. This meme is getting old very fast
Nobody expects the RNC to treat Obama any differently than they will ANY Democratic nominee. Okay?
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. So why the furor over Shaheen's statement? Did Shaneen say anything
beyond the fact that the Rethugs will attack Obama over his admissions of past drug use?

Something which is obviously true?
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. The furor is over a Democrat acting like a Repuke
Shaheen went past the line of truth from teenaged drug use to drug dealing, posing it as concern and question, just like a Repuke, just the way the politics of personal destruction is always played. Furthermore, the stereotype of the young drug dealer would never have been applied to anyone else in this primary, because it wouldn't have entered anyone's mind. That's why the furor.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Wasn't he saying: this is what the Rethugs will say?
And was he wrong? Won't they attack Obama in that manner?

And shouldn't we be prepared for that, if Obama's the nominee?
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. I already injured myself
beating my head on this brick wall.

Good luck to ya.

But they don't wanna see the truth in what you're saying.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. It's funny that the same people don't attack those who bring up all the potential
Rethug smears against HRC -- Vince Foster, etc.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. This is DU
Attacking Hillary makes ya popular!
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #25
38. I'll tell ya, I'm VERY worried that the GOP will use that Vince Foster rumor against Clinton
You know, the one where she had an affair with him and then she and Bill ordered him killed. Not because I'm saying it's true or anything. I'm just saying that the Repugs are surely going to use that terrible allegation that Hillary murdered Vince Foster. I'm only saying this because I'm so concerned for your candidate and all. We all know how ruthless the GOP is when it comes to using things like rumors that Hillary Clinton had Vince Foster murdered and made it appear to be a suicide. I'm only bringing up an old story like this because we all know the GOP is going to use it so let's get it out in the open now.

:sarcasm:
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. The difference you neglect
Hillary Clinton didn't confess to killing Vince Foster in her autobiography.

Obama DID open himself to issues of his electability with his revelation that he used cocaine.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Did Obama admit to recent drug use or drug dealing in his?
Funny, I missed that. Furthermore, you are neglecting to notice that the line of reasoning used by the Clinton/Shaheen defenders is not the validity of the allegations themselves, but that the GOP will use them against the candidate.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Apparently you still don't understand what was said
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 12:51 PM by maddiejoan
The comment everyone is so upset over is that Obama's admission of Drug use hurts his electabilty, because Republicans will attack him on it and bring up all sorts of spurious attacks. Shaheen then listed some of those potential attacks.

Republicans may indeed bring up Vince Foster crapola --but it won't be because of anything that Hillary has done or admitted to doing.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. This is what Shaheen said:
"It'll be, 'When was the last time? Did you ever give drugs to anyone? Did you sell them to anyone?'"

What about that don't YOU understand?

Oh, I know, Shaheen just helpfully "listed some of those potential attacks" because he was so very concerned about them. :eyes:

BTW, what bleeping difference does it make whether or not someone "did something" or "admitted to doing" something when it comes to people from their own party spreading smears about them?


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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. So you think Shaheen is wrong? Or just that we should pretend to be
blindsided and shocked when the Rethugs finally do ask these kinds of questions?

Of course they will. And we need to be ready.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. Yes. Shaheen wasn't trying to help us be ready for GOP attacks.
He gave them a club to attack with. By planting a false smear in the media to help Sen. Clinton, he handed the GOP a convenient excuse to bash Obama with the drug use if he wins the Primary. They'll say: "What's wrong with us bringing Obama's drug use up now when other Democrats were doing it back in the Primary races?"
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. They don't care about ethics, this is the Willie Horton party.
We can't protect Obama by keeping quiet about this issue now. No matter what happens in our primaries, they will feel perfectly free to bring up Obama's drug use, just as they brought up Clinton's marijuana use. They don't need any clubs from us to start their attacks.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Shaheen suggested Obama was a drug dealer. That's a club from "us" nt
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. And the Rethugs were perfectly capable of asking that question
without any help from us. And asking Obama what he meant about being on the way to being a "junkie."

I'm sure Obama can handle this, but it's silly to act as if the attack described by Shaheen wouldn't have been forthcoming.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. He said he was on the way to being a "junkie," a line which might cause
him some problem in the future.

I hope he's ready. I don't think it's a disqualifier, and I still like him a lot. But he better be prepared to handle whatever the Rethugs throw in his direction, because they will.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #38
47. I'm not, and you aren't, but plenty of people here still bring it up.
And that's fine, HRC can handle it.

As I hope Obama can handle any smear that may be thrown at him.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #21
33. Of course he said it that way
That is how the politics of personal destruction is done.

The Repukes will attack any Democratic nominee with whatever they've got, only the story will change to suit the candidate. What they don't have they will make up. I don't worry about what Repukes are going to say. I'd never sleep at night. I can draw up a Repuke scenario for every single candidate we've got in no time at all.

It is true Obama, as he has been straight out front about, used drugs in high school just like millions of American kids who have parents who see it for what it is, ordinary life, not something they want their kids to be doing, but ordinary. Republicans, too, rich people, poor people, middle class people, minorities and whites, urban and rural -- they've been alive through the past few decades.

Are the Republicans going to ask if Obama was a drug dealer? Who gives a shit. It is untrue.

Are the Republicans going to claim Hillary is a lesbian who killed Vince Foster? Who the hell cares. It is untrue.

What we should all care about is Democrats publicly raising downright dirty lies about other Democrats, whether or not they couch it in "concern."
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. Thank you. What Shaheen did is straight out of the Rove playbook.
Between this and those "innocently" forwarded Muslim emails, I think we can see what kind of campaign Clinton is running. I'm not impressed, and I'm not fooled. Obviously they don't feel she can win on the issues and the strength of her presentation of them so they have to pull this swiftboat crap.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #21
34. well, some people say
How long was Hillary planning Vince Foster's death?
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. Y'all beat me to it! Read mine a couple posts up.
Of course, this will be different because the Vince Foster allegation is completely untrue, unlike Obama's well documented history of drugrunning and gangbanging. :eyes:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
15. Shaheen coulda said: A black teen sampled some IranContra cocaine Poppy Bush DUMPED
by the TONS all over America and especially targeting black communities?

Demand those books be opened - act like an open government Democrat.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #15
30. Yeah, but Obama was a teen during the 70s. The dumping was in the 80s.
In which Obama was in his 20s. He already graduated Harvard by then so cocaine use would be a tad more difficult to explain.

Still, you bring up an excellent point about the drug issue, in general.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. Actually Poppy's CIA drugrunning went on for years BEFORE he became VP and how he got
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 11:54 AM by blm
his CIA nickname Poppy.

IranContra was an extension of that dealing, and the actual Iran and contra support dealings started before Reagan and Bush took office when Obama would have been in his teens. And so it is all part of the same story - CIA drugrunning as a Poppy Bush operation.

So, the American people will GET the connection if it's presented that way - they know more about IranContra cocaine than the earlier dealings.

Throw it all and demand the books be opened to clear up the little details. heh
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #35
40. Well okay then. Let's get this out there! n/t
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
16. A cocaine Swiftboat will sink.
The sooner they "raise" it the better.
Unlike most dirt this has an upside
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Yep - That coke likely came from Poppy Bush's IranContra cocaine dumping operations
that targeted black communities throughout the 80s and 90s.

Heheh - Obama could demand they open the books to see where that cocaine Hawaii was getting from LA connections like Ricky Ross.

American Gangster, indeed.
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. Cocaine is not a place the Republican party should go.
Suppose junior was still using at the time of Iran/Contra.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
46. Yes. Obama needs to show he can stop such an attack. Let us see how he does right now.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. Unfortunately the approach that works with Dems--appeals to fairness --
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 04:31 PM by pnwmom
fails miserably with Rethugs, who couldn't care less about even appearing fair.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. That is true.
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
51. More of the same
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otisjf24 Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
58. Here is the sad truth
Whatever any of the canidates will spin against one another in this primary, it will not change what most people on this site will vote, Democrat. Ever single candiate knows this. They are playing to the 60%. All of us idiots that run around and have no clue what the hell is going on.It may be a case of "If I can't have it, then no one can." but even that is a pathetic and weak case.

So, I hear some say, "How can 'one of our own' do this to 'us'?" My answer: Welcome to the wonderful world of politics where your life is on display and open to speculation.

I hear some mention "Blame it on Iran/Contra!" I have some sad, sad news for you people. Most of us 60%ers have no idea what the hell that was about. The few of us that pay a little more attention MAY say, "Isn't that how Oliver North got his 15 minutes of fame and some books to actually sell?" We have no clue. None.

Do we care if Obama did drugs? No. Not particularly, like it was pointed out in the threads here, most of us have. Do we believe that he was or might have been a drug dealer. Maybe. We still don't care, overall, because most of us have pawned off that crappy dime bag that we got from a "friend" to anyone that would buy it. (Republican comaparison: Like a Junk Bond. I am seeing the lightbulbs going off.)

Do we care that this information came from a "fellow Democrat". No, not particularly. We shrug our shoulders and figure that it was going to come out sooner or later anyway.

So, what damage is actually being done here? The Dems have often times been associated with the legalization of marijuana, so do any of them care if O blew a fatty? Nope. The Dems have often been associated with the concept of rehabilitation and second chances. So, is Obama a drug dealer now? Nope. He has a decent track record of serving the community through public office. I don't think that I am going to catch him down on Rush St in Chicago pushing kilos any time soon. Neither does anyone else in the Democratic Party. Was this a desparate attempt by an outgoing political campaign advisor when he didn't have really good reasons why Hillary was losing position in the polls? Yeah. More than likely. So, when the Republicans bring it up on the campaign trail to the White House, will anyone listen? No. By then it will be ancient history. We, the 60%, will be wanting the next big scandal. We don't care about old news, even with a new spin.

This is the run for the President of the United States. How many careers have been completely ruined just by putting their hat in the ring. I don't even know. There are some out there that do. On both sides, at that. Every candidate is going to do everything they can within the comfort of their ability. Some will play dirtier than others. Was Hillary behind this? I have no idea in the world. Is Obama capable of doing something equally horrendous? I don't know. And truth be told, neither does anyone else that posts on this site. Being a career politician is something into and of itsself. It takes unique people to even get to some of these offices. The power corrupts some people. Others, the power corrupts, eventually. Still others don't last long enough to get corrupted.

So, bicker within your party all you want. All of us 60% already know that each candidate has a 20% vote. Now, what is your candidate going to do for us?

-A blind, stupid 60%er
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