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If Hillary keeps going negative, I will vote for Obama

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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:42 AM
Original message
If Hillary keeps going negative, I will vote for Obama
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 10:46 AM by sampsonblk
Hillary Clinton is in a tough situation. She can still win. But she has to use all those advantages that have accrued to her over the years. She still has huge endorsements, a long list of famous surrogates waiting to come to Iowa and New Hampshire on her behalf, and a wealth of experience few can match. Plus she has her husband's record, which is stellar.

If all she can find to talk about is how bad Obama is, then I will take that to mean that's what she'd do in the White House. She has so many good things she could focus on instead. If she can't find a message, and insists on trying to harm Obama, I am going to vote for Obama. And I encourage others to do the same.

For now I am still a Hillary supporter and I am holding out hope that she will get a grip and start talking about how great America will be with her as president.

Edit: Orig title was "If Hillary goes Negative, I will vote for Obama"
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. If?????
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Good point. I will edit.-nt
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
3. She's already gone negative...
She really jumped the shark with her campaign painting Obama as a drug dealer.
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undercoverduer Donating Member (344 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Yeah she has already gone negative. . .
. . . :kick:
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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. So, you'd rather base your vote on campaign tactics than issues?
Negative campaigning is a fact of life. Nearly everyone does it, and it's a near certainty that some tactics employed by most, if not all, of our candidates at some point in their campaigns could be construed as negative by a third-party observer.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Character is an issue-nt
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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Fine, then let's disqualify all of our candidates.
Each one of them has gone or will go negative at some point in the campaign, based on the interpretations of their opponents' supporters.

Ask Biden supporters if they think that the other candidates have gone negative.

Or Edwards supporters.

Or Richardson supporters.

Ask any of them. I'm sure they'll be more than happy to recount the offenses of the opposing campaigns.
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
7. I want HRC to balance her message ... and not be held to some higher standard
Screw this nice guy crap. If her opposition has admitted weakenesses, point 'em out ... we don't need a lady like president.

And if surrogates have to fall on their swords - so much the better. Show us devotion, 'cause our enemies certainly have it.

And most of all, I want a continued sense of confidence. Right or wrong, we have no choice but continue our work.

I think it'll be a good year for HRC. She's earned it.
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undercoverduer Donating Member (344 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Sort of like that way she tried to define the "politics of hope"
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 10:50 AM by undercoverduer
Whenever she would smack Obama and he would defend himself she would mock the whole "politics of hope" as if it meant that you were not allowed to defend yourself. I don't think she should be held to a higher standard, however she should live up to the standards she holds other candidates to.
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. It's a campaign for president ... not saint. When HRC makes a mistake,
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 11:33 AM by Fredda Weinberg
I'll understand. She remains a formidable candidate.
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HeraldSquare212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. But it back-fired
she apparently does not have the skills to do it right
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. I don't judge overnight. I contributed to her campaign years ago ...
it's a plan I understand and support.
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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
11. Who will you switch to when Obama goes negative?
According to many on DU, he already has.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Obama has been running a negative campaign
for much longer than Hillary.

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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I think I told you before
or one of us few Hilary supporters, that facts don't matter, if they help her. :)
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Ooooops
My bad.
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Bullet1987 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. WTF are you talking about?
Obama has NEVER attacked Clinton personally.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. I call shenaningans
He's been at it from the beginning.

She's desperate, she's Bush/Cheney lite, she's got "baggage" (wink wink)
And now he's personally attacking her all over the place while claiming he's a victim.

He started it up --and now that Hillary is bringing it --he's calling foul.

Sorry. You are wrong.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Some of us don't just accept bs like that


Obama certainly did attack her personally at the Philadelphia debate where he called her not honest, a flip flopper, unprincipled, not a straight talker, etc.

He lead off with this bullshit attack which could be used against any politician in the history of mankind Obama included:
_________________
It does not mean, I think, changing positions whenever it's politically convenient. And Senator Clinton, in her campaign, I think has been for NAFTA previously. Now she's against it. She has taken one position on torture several months ago, and then most recently has taken a different position.

She voted for a war, to authorize sending troops into Iraq, and then later said this was a war for diplomacy.

I don't think that it -- now, that may be politically savvy, but I don't think that it offers the clear contrast that we need. I think what we need right now is honesty with the American people about where we would take the country. That's how I'm trying to run my campaign. That's how I will be as president.

__________________

Then he followed with this slam on one of the most open Administrations of all time:

SEN. OBAMA: Well, look, I'm glad that Hillary took the phrase "turn the page." It's a good one. But this is an example of not turning the page. We have just gone through one of the most secretive administrations in our history, and not releasing, I think, these records at the same time, Hillary, as you're making the claim that this is the basis for your experience, I think, is a problem.

Part of what we have to do is invite the American people back to participate in their government again. Part of what we need to do is rebuild trust in our government again.

And that means being open and transparent and accountable to the American people.

And that's one of the hallmarks of my previous work in the state legislature, in the United States Senate -- making sure that Americans know where our money's going, what earmarks are out there, what kinds of pork barrel spending is being done, who's bundling money for who. And that, I think, is part of the job of the next president, is making Americans believe that our government is working for them because right now, they don't feel like it's working for them. They feel like it's working for special interests, and it's working for corporations.

One last point I want to make: Part of the reason that Republicans, I think, are obsessed with you, Hillary, is because that's a fight they're very comfortable having. It is the fight that we've been through since the '90s. And part of the job of the next president is to break the gridlock and to get Democrats and independents and Republicans to start working together to solve these big problems, like health care or climate change or energy.

And what we don't need is another eight years of bickering. And that's precisely why I'm running for president. Because one of the things I've been able to do throughout my political career is to bring people together to get things done.

_________________________
There are plenty more examples.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/30/us/politics/30debate-...
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
14. Sorry to hear you are wavering
because of the nature of race. I will only point out that she adjusted her strategy after others started throwing rocks and gaining in the polls.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
26. Obama is the same Obama he was before
Pretty admirable, I'd say. He's appearing with Oprah to talk about what a bright future we have as a nation. That's what good candidates do in the home stretch. Candidates who don't have a real message or purpose throw rocks in the home stretch.

Hillary can do it! She should fire her advisors and start talking about what we can do if we all work together.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. At yesterdays debate
she was entirely positive unless I missed something.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. As long as you discount the rude laughter
and interruption of obamas question I agree. she was pretty positive. Unfortunately she threw it all out the window with her snide comment.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. it was a typical political jab on a valid point
this IS still politics last I checked.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. Its a start-nt
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. I especially liked what she had to say about Global Warming
CLINTON: Well, I think it's imperative that we address this issue. And I think your question was, "Well, will how we do it effect the average American?"

Yes, it will. That's part of what we're going to have to tell people.

I advocate a cap-and-trade system. What I want to do with the auction of pollution permits is to take a lot of that money and invest it in new technologies, new ways of getting to our objectives that I've outlined in my energy plan.

I want to use some of it, though, to cushion the costs that will come onto the American consumer.

But it's not just enough to have an energy plan, not just enough to attack global warming. We've got to enlist the American people the way we did in a previous generation for the Apollo program.

As a little girl, I remember being thrilled about that and feeling that there was something I could do. My 5th grade teacher said it was to study math and science, but it gave me an idea of actually contributing to my country.

This has to call for a new form of American patriotism. So when people, particularly on the other side of the aisle, talk about how we will wreck the economy and impose all of these costs, that is what is happening right now.

We cannot sustain the current energy profile in this country. That's why we have to act. And we will act in a way that brings the country together and lifts us up and gives us a feeling that we are, once again, reaching for the stars, only we're going to do it right here on Earth.

------snip

CLINTON: Carolyn, do you want to ask us to raise our hands about global warming?

WASHBURN: I wasn't...

(LAUGHTER)

CLINTON: It didn't get a very good response from Republicans yesterday.

(LAUGHTER)

WASHBURN: I wasn't doing that today.

CLINTON: But we all want to be on record.

(LAUGHTER)

We believe in it.

(LAUGHTER)

We think it's a real problem.
------------
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0712/13/se.01.ht...
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
16. So what's she supposed to do when the others come after her like a pack of wolves? Not fight back?
Hey, if Obama didn't know then that his personal attacks that he initiated against Hillary were going to come back at him and hit him in the face, then he just isn't ready for prime time yet. You don't go throwing personal attacks at Hillary and expect she's gonna sit there and take it for too long.

Maybe next time Obama will be a little more careful about which people he compares to Bush.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. Friend, that's silly
Being compared to Bush is not out of bounds. In any event, I am disappointed because Hillary doesn't seem to have anything positive to say. I am not opposed to negative campaigning. I am opposed to the candidate of advantage heading into the home stretch with message that the other guy smoked weed. What is Hillary about anymore?
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
17. What new negative attack will it take for you to change?
She's attacked Obama for things she has been on record agreeing with, has attacked him for what he wrote in kindergarden, what he did in the third grade, what he did when he was a teen and now through various channels is trying to say that his race makes him unelectable.

She has lied about her record, used plants, has internal campaign staff sending lies about Obama in emails and even has her husband lying about his record and lying about Obama's opinion on the Iraq War.

What will it take to make you decide she's running a dirty campaign? Based on how things are going, something should come out again within the next few days that will be another example of pathetic politics from her campaign.

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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. I agree that its looking pretty ugly. I definitely get it.
I have seen plenty of dirty politics. No big deal to me.

All along, I have been supporting her because I thought she'd be a great president. But you learn a lot about people when they're in a jam. If all she can think of in the next few weeks is bad shit about Obama then that's it for me. Makes me think she hasn't learned a thing from all those years of smears from the GOP.

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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. I'd suggest you pay attention to what Hillary is actually saying
and not what Obama and the MSM are saying that she is saying.

They are distinctly different things.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. That ain't how it works
Candidates use that trick all the time. In public, they're all smiles. But in private they have their henchmen drop stink bombs galore.

No thank you, I will pay attention to everything.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
31. At the risk of sounding manipulative, hypocritical and "concerned"
She has many quality people supporting her here and I believe their standards are higher than what they've been compelled to defend lately. Not all of them, but a lot of them. If this were my candidate, I'd be saying WTF, too.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. She has a few weeks. I pray she gets better advice in that time
She still has a lot to offer. I hope and pray someone tells her how bad it looks for her to be dropping stink bombs at this moment.
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