In essence the DNC barred Kucinich from the debate

[penguin7]

http://www2.kucinich.us/issues/open_debates.php


... ..."Unfortunately, the value of this democratic principle has failed under the Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD). Established in 1988 as an extension of the major political parties, the CPD has transformed the presidential debates from dynamic political forums to "glorified news conferences," where candidates recite prepackaged sound bites and avoid discussion of significant issues.

Prior to this control, the presidential debates were faithfully sponsored by the nonpartisan League of Women Voters, who courageously included popular independent candidates, such as Congressman John Anderson, and prohibited major party campaigns from manipulating debate environments. The Democratic National Committee and Republican National Committee, however, did not want a sponsor who limited their candidates' control in order to further public interest. Their official agreement "for the parties to take over presidential debates" has led to a complete partisan control of these important events by major parties with little to no interest in promoting any alternatives to business as usual in Washington." ... ...

[redqueen]

1. I thought it was the Iowa Register.

[frazzled]

2. The DNC had nothing to do with this: it was Des Moines Reigister rules /nt

[tekisui]

3. Enforced arbitrarily.

[dmallind]

5. Anybody in the debate Dennis would have been in get a pass?

I mean - it's not like he applied for the Keyes spot is it? Any of the other Democratic candidates who were ioncluded not have an IA office? Were LaMagna and Kreuger etc included?

[tekisui]

6. Rules have no value when they are inconsistent.

[dmallind]

8. So you can't have different rules for different scenarios?

So co-ed teams should play the same as men only? Kids same as adults? The only event Dennis was potentially eligible for did not include anyone else who did not meet the criteria. If they changed the rules for a completely separate debate that he would not have qualified for, how does that help Dennis? Had they NOT included Keyes would it make it any better for Dennis? It's an irrelevant point from a DK POV.

[tekisui]

9. I understand that.

Two different debates. Two different scenarios. Yet, the same guidelines were in place for each. When the debate rules were enforced differently, for whatever benign reason, it gives a questionable impression. That is all.

But, you are right. Keyes in at the GOP had no effect on DK. Other than giving him an opprotunity to raise a question.

[dmallind]

11. Can't explain that one either

I have no idea WHY AK got in and DK didn't (unless there is some "recent entrant" loophole perhaps?) but it didn't make any difference either way. If anything this helped Dennis more than his inclusion would have. It's not like he hasn't been in plenty of the debates for people who like that way of learning about candidates, so he got to have all the debate exposure minus one, then he got to generate a media story about inclusion and exclusion instead of that additional debate.

[kenfrequed]

57. Oh yes

Yeah it helped kucinich, the first fo the debates that had something loosely resembling an equal division of time and he missed out on it. Sure and the mainstream media carried the farce of his exclusion non-stop didn't they? Well they at least ran a story asking "what was Kucinich doing while the debates were going on?" Oh wait... they didn't? Well the must have rana story on the process by which he was barred and Keyes was allowed? You mean they didn't do that either?

Why am I not surprised that the only politician to suggest SPECIFIC reforms that REDUCE the level of media monopoly these days was excluded. Big shocker.

[redqueen]

19. Give me a break... you can't put Kucinich on the same level as those two.

Jesus.

[dmallind]

39. And the effective difference in their viability is......? NT

ljlj

[redqueen]

42. Not for you to attempt to predict. (nt)

[dmallind]

45. Wanna bet?

500-1 odds on DK any time you want it.

[redqueen]

46. Childish. (nt)

[dmallind]

48. No. Courage of convictions. Got any? NT

ljljk

[redqueen]

50. More than you, I'll bet.

[dmallind]

53. Well less than 1/500th apparently.

I am thinking I can predict Kucinich's viability. Apparently you disagree, but not quite enough.

[redqueen]

54. How about we try to stay on topic, and not make this personal, eh?

The subthread below is on topic, I'll just stick to that.

[kenfrequed]

58. Wow

Now using the words "Conviction" in the same thread that you defend a democratic candidates exclusion from one of the first debates that afforded a more balanced distribution of time between the candidates is kind of funny.

Is it irony?

[dmallind]

4. Which Dennis knew about and ignored. NT

lkjlj

[redqueen]

22. Not true. He has an office and paid staff.

Oddly, the Des Moines Register allowed Keyes to debate despite his not having any paid staff or an office.

[dmallind]

38. Home office. Not storefront as required. NT

ljlj

[redqueen]

41. They changed their minds, and added the "storefront" BS later... where's Keyes' "storefront"?

Why are you trying sooooooooo hard to rationalize his unfair exclusion?

[dmallind]

44. Was Keyes in the Dem debate?

Why are you trying so hard to make it into a conspiracy?

[redqueen]

47. I'm not making it one. Kucinich was treated unfairly.

I'm sorry you're in denial about it and have to resort to hyperbole to try to continue to further your "argument".

[dmallind]

49. There is no hyperbole and no argument either

he did NOT meet the criteria established and was not included. Simple and clear cut. Nobody needs to read anything into it more than that.

[redqueen]

51. So you think they previously asserted that home offices were exluded?

Where did you read that, pray tell?

[kenfrequed]

59. Uhm hold on

Accusing someone else of being a conspiracy nut by suggesting their arguments are "a conspiracy" really IS Hyperoble.

Sorry, you lose again.

[madfloridian]

7. Please say it was the 1988 DNC

.

[penguin7]

13. So the DNC no longer sanctions the CPD?

[madfloridian]

17. You are really grasping at straws. Most candidates have numerous offices there.

Kucinich knew the rules and did not choose to follow them. It costs money to have offices, and most of them did put out the money.

He chose not to follow the rules.

[redqueen]

28. Alan Keyes does NOT have an office. Neither does he have paid staff.

He was allowed to debate.

Did the other GOP candidates support his inclusion, as someone else on here stated?

I'm VERY curious to know that.




Nowhere in their rules is it stated that the office can't be a home office.

Sickening that so many people here are trying SO hard to rationalize this bullshit.

[Occam Bandage]

10. No, it was the Des Moines Register's rules, which DK knowingly failed to meet.

The rules were arbitrarily enforced, and DMR should take heat for that. But the DNC was not responsible, "in essence" or otherwise.

[stray cat]

12. Why wasn't Colbert there - he didn't follow the rules for eligiability

but he still should not have been excluded...

[redqueen]

23. Do people who post the snarky kind of shit you just did think it's amusing?

Or valuable in any way, to anyone?

Just curious...

[Kucinich4America]

14. There's no question that the CPD is a fucking joke, and should not exist.

But in this case it was the Des Moines Catbox Liner which was to blame for discriminating against the best candidate in the race.

[Peregrine Took]

15. Isn't it true that the candidates could have voted to have him included as

the rethugs did with Keyes?

[redqueen]

24. Fucking hell... I hope that's not true.

[redqueen]

43. Where did you hear that, anyway?

I'm curious...

[CTLawGuy]

16. the rules were

you had to have an office or a campaign staffer working in Iowa and Keyes does, and Kucinich and Gravel do NOT.

[penguin7]

18. The issue is why a newspaper is making the rules.

It really does not matter what the rules are.

[Occam Bandage]

20. Because they're hosting the debate. Their debate, their rules.

[Occam Bandage]

21. It was "and," not "or." Where's Keyes' office?

[Kucinich4America]

26. That's a very good question

Last time I checked, Keyes didn't even know what state he lived in.

[redqueen]

32. No one seems to know.

The ONE person at the Des Moines register whom others expect to know isn't available.

For the 3rd day running.

[redqueen]

25. Kucinich actually does meet those requirements.

Dunno about Gravel, but Alan Keyes certainly did not meet them, yet he was allowed to debate.

Sickening how Dems are so ready to help the motherfuckers ignore the candidate with the most popular policy ideas.

[flvegan]

27. They can't afford to have Kucinich on stage with them.

Remember Edwards' "cute, Dennis"?

The man speaks his mind and cuts through the bs. The other candidates can't afford that.

[cali]

52. that's absurd. He's been on stage in practically all the debates

including last week's NPR debate. And the fact is that Kucinich is not a threat to any of them.

[sniffa]

35. it's like fucking parrots here

i think i'm going to pick a phrase and just use it in every mother fucking thread.

it should be something bad about Hillary.

[redqueen]

36. Cackler.

She cackles.

She's so cackley.

Cackle cackle cackle.

[sniffa]

40. ooh, good one

there's a lively exchange going on in another thread, and some people i'm done talking to, so maybe they'll just get cackles from here on out.

[kenfrequed]

60. uhm wrong

None of them had "storefront offices"

Kucinich did have one staffer working out of his home. Keyes did not have a staffer or an office.

Strangely Keyes is in and Kucinich is out.

[onenote]

29. kucinich campaign should be more careful about their "history"

In 1980, the League of Women Voters did invite John Anderson to participate in the first presidential debate. At the time, however, Anderson was polling around 10 percent and had been as high as 20 percent. Jimmy Carter boycotted that debate, so it ended up being a debate between Reagan and Anderson. Carter continued to refuse to participate in a debate that included Anderson and the LWV cancelled the second debate. Finally, as election day neared, Reagan agreed to participate in a head-to-head with Carter but without Anderson (who had dropped below 5 percent in the polls) and the LWV agreed. I should add that the Libertarian candidate received over 1 percent of the vote in 1980, but was never invited to participate in the debates by the LWV.

While I think DK should've been allowed to participate in the most recent debates, some of the woe-is-me'ing going on is a bit absurd. There have been more than a dozen Democratic candidate debates/fora and DK has been "uninvited" to two of them as far as I can tell. I don't think its the exclusion from the debate that is holding down his poll numbers.

[redqueen]

33. It's not "woe is me'ing" it's expecting fair treatment.

[denem]

30. Nobody has a sacred right to television.

Unless there's TV, Kucinich couldn't give a damn about Iowa. He's not interested.

[redqueen]

34. He's got paid staff there and lots of supporters.

Please back your statement up. What makes you think he's not interested?

[bluedog]

31. think he'll show up for debates in Ohio?

he does have a few opponents who will gladly debate him..or is this a low priority for him?

[redqueen]

37. Why not call his campaign and ask?

[hayu_lol]

55. Anyone else think that maybe Keyes got into the debate...

at the behest of the RNC? Would be a good way to take Huckleberry out of the running--two fundies and one Mormon to split the GOP religious wacko vote.

Keyes has stomped all the college and University campuses in Iowa at the invitation of the fully GOP funded Young Republicans. All of the midwest as a matter of fact.

[bluedog]

56. been checking on his run for House again

and it seems he needs money for that also.........according to this..he hasn't filed there yet.
*****************************



The filing date to qualify for the ballot is less than a month away (Jan. 4), and Fossaceca said there wasn’t any sign that Kucinich’s campaign was distributing petitions.

The primary is scheduled for March 4.

Kucinich didn’t raise any money for his congressional campaign last quarter and has only $3,850 remaining in his House campaign account. He has $327,000 in his presidential campaign account, which he can transfer for his reelection bid.


and a GOP'ers entered the race.......

Joe Cimperman, a popular 37-year-old Cleveland city councilman, announced Tuesday that he will be running against Kucinich in the Democratic primary for his House seat next March, giving the six-term congressman his first serious and politically experienced challenger since he was first elected in 1996.In the past, Kucinich has praised Cimperman’s record on the city council. In a 1999 Cleveland Plain Dealer article, Kucinich praised Cimperman for being “passionately involved in his community.”



http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7189.html




wonder how this will play out?

[terryg11]

61. this should concern many

people all over this board whine and moan about how the dems don't have any backbone and don't press the republicans on many issues. Well, like him or not, Dennis has been doing that from day one. He may not be a viable candidate thanks to the media but we need him in Washington. He's one of the few who's honestly trying to get Bush and Cheney impeached for their illegal war. He stands up to large coporations unethical shit all the time. Losing Kucinich in the House would be a bad thing.