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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:14 AM
Original message
The Iowa caucus is crap.
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 08:20 AM by MethuenProgressive
First we have the Obama plot to bus out-of-state students back from their homes in Illinois to caucus in Iowa, and now this:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CAUCUS_VOTING?SI...
Flood of campaign operatives cause worry
DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) -- Will they be checking for out-of-state IDs at the caucuses?

The major presidential campaigns are flooding the state with hundreds of field staffers, and there's at least some concern that those operatives could show up for the Jan. 3 precinct caucuses and distort the outcome of the opening test of the presidential nominating season.

With the Democratic caucus contest very tight in most polls, the rival campaigns are keeping a close eye on what the others are doing and some provided The Associated Press with lists of campaign staffers registered to vote in Iowa in the various campaigns. One campaign listing showed that 51 of the 115 people on the staff of Hillary Rodham Clinton's Iowa campaign are registered to vote in the state, and that 91 of the 131 people working for John Edwards in the state are registered to vote in Iowa.

Another listing showed that 42 staffers working for Barack Obama's campaign have registered to vote in the state, many in the last six months or so.

Iowa caucusing is as far away from Democracy is we can get.
Why not just stack up the money, and the highest pile wins?

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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. huh?
the fact that Obama gets young uns in to register is a problem?
the fact that all three staffs bring in pros to help with a campaign is a problem?

perhaps I miss your point.
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. The Clinton campaign
would love that idea-very GOP-ish
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Did you read the goddamned fucking post. Edwards is doing it too. Obama has a plan to do the same
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 08:36 AM by xultar
Your dumb ass post is why DU sucks hard right now.

The OP lists the top three and you single out Clinton just like the goddamned republicans do regardless of what the fuck is going.

LOOK @ YOURSELF.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. To be fair, I think the poster meant the "measure the pile of money" bit.
And gee whiz, no need for the potty mouth this time of day.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. I Don't Want To Get In The Middle Of This
But there is a place in life for spontaneous moral outrage...
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. I'm the potty mouth queen. That's my shtick.

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youthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. LOL!
xultar...I always love your posts!
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #20
46. I'd been taking a break from DU cuz of the bullshit. But today I'd had enoguh of the shit.
Thanks for the kind words. I'm going to go away until after IA cuz I can't stand to see the freeper-like assaults on our candidates. It breaks my heart to see how closely we behave like the the other side towards each other and our own.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #46
62. and it breaks mine to see how closely some D candidates are to the other side.
nt
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. No Need To Apologize Or Explain
Righteous anger can be a good thing...
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
26. yea Methuen
The Clinton campaign (and apparently it's supporters) is imploding right before our very eyes-maybe they should all go on over to Free Republic if DU sucks so bad. They ARE inclined to use Rovian tactics anyway so I guess they'll fit right in over there.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. The CQ story mentions all top three campaigns.
Another reason to vote for someone NOT in the MSM's top three!
www.2013IsTooLate.com
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. Buhwawawawawa! THEY MENTION ALL THREE CAMPAIGNS OR CAN YOU READ AT ALL?
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stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #30
70. all THREE campaigns? aren't there others to choose from?
like Biden, Dodd or Kucinich?

:shrug:

the caucus process in Iowa is very important to the OTHER and equally important candidates without billions of corporate dollars in their coffers.

Joe Biden explains it to you here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

all three candidates... oy vey!
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NewHampster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #10
52. MeT TUEN
Correctly pronouncing Methuen, I say that this thread is pointing out yet another example of the MSM not doing their job.

This am I was bullshit, oops; I was less than happy to hear whats his name on MSNBC say how if Obama were the leader and not still the challenger they would be looking more closely at him. Once he wins a few primaries then they'll begin to do their jobs.

Why don't they look at the yucky Iowa system which undermined the power of the truly democratic NH Primary. Iowa is nothing more than a return to the cigar smoke back rooms of the old conventions where going with the flow is a matter of course.

I spit on the Iowa caucus.



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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #52
69. New Hampshire's primary is Real Democracy.
:thumbsup: NH!
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youthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
3. I thought getting people registered to vote was a GOOD thing.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. Registering the staff you bring in from out of state is a GOOD thing?
I don't think so.
"there's concern that those operatives could show up for the Jan. 3 caucuses"
There's certainly support (see above) from the Obamatrons for this kind of fraud.
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youthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. So? if they qualify as residents of Iowa what's the problem?
They can't vote in another primary or caucus if they vote in Iowa. If they show up for the caucus and are not residents of the precint they attend they get no vote.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. "They can't vote in another primary or caucus if they vote in Iowa."
Of course they can. The students will go back home and vote in Illinois, and the campaign staffers will vote absentee back where they live - and probably where ever else the rules are as nonsensical as Iowa.
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. It is a good thing; one of the most important parts of the election process
is to generate interest in our young people, helping them to get a better picture of the election process along with taking part in it. I thought all the candidates were on the same page with that.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #14
29. Registering your out of state staffers in Iowa to stack the polls is a "good thing"?
This obviously is a talking point from the Big Three. :puke:
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
4. If the registrations are not illegal, then this is a non-issue. Who cares
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 08:25 AM by Dhalgren
who is legally registered to vote? The more the merrier, right? This sounds like the beginnings of an excuse for certain campaigns losing in Iowa. Maybe the Supreme Court should step in and choose the winner. How would that be?
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. You are correct in your assumption:
"This sounds like the beginnings of an excuse for certain campaigns losing in Iowa." which is the entire reason I would guess for this post.

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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #15
27. What campaign are you accusing Congressional Quarterly of working for?
The paranoia from ObamaNation is very unbecoming.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. I hope you will encourage your floundering candidate to pick up this talking point.
That'll sure do her ... er ... us some good.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Right. I can hear it now,
"We lost in Iowa because too many people went out to vote." Oh yeah, that's a winning spin!

:rofl:
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ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
35. That's funny, lol n/t
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
31. Young voting rights activists furious at Clinton and Dodd
Uh huh, jeff_dem.

Many youth activists are furious with the campaigns of Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) and Chris Dodd (D-Conn.) for suggesting that college students who did not grow up in Iowa should not caucus there in January and they are delivering that message both publicly and privately.

Its terrible to have candidates making misleading statements about whether or not students can caucus, said Alexandra Acker, executive director of the Young Democrats of America.

Im very worried about the caucus-day implications of this, Acker said, concerned that discouraging students from caucusing will make an existing problem worse. Students are disenfranchised at higher rates to begin with.

Young Voter PAC, another Democratic youth organization, has also responded aggressively. The political action committee, which works with Democratic candidates to engage young voters, founded the Facebook group Hey Clinton, Stop Telling Young Voters to Stay Home.

-snip


Schierenbeck is hardly the only politically involved student from out of state in Iowa. As Politico has reported, the co-chair of Hillary Clintons University of Iowa student chapter, Nikki Dziuban, is from Illinois.

She intends to caucus for Clinton and will bring other Iowa students from Illinois back to school over winter break with her.



http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7378_Page2.ht...



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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
65. Try reading - all of the Big Three are mentioned in the linked story
They read in your world, don't they?
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
7. Distort much?
"Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor moved here to work on the campaign and is one of the Obama operatives who has registered to vote in Iowa. But Vietor said he and other Obama operatives who moved in from out-of-state to work on the campaign won't go to the precinct caucuses.

"We're pleased that so many talented people are working so hard and volunteering their time to elect Barack Obama, but it is our policy that employees and volunteers who moved to Iowa expressly to work on our campaign do not caucus," said Vietor.

Vietor said he did vote in a school board election in Des Moines, casting a ballot for Patty Link, wife of veteran Democratic operative Jeff Link. Ironically, Jeff Link is aligned with Edwards.


-snip-
And that "spirit" is that those showing up for precinct caucuses were living in the precinct prior to caucus day and will continue to do so afterward, she said.

The major campaigns have pledged to live up to that spirit.
"Our campaign pledges to Iowa Democrats to follow the spirit and letter of Iowa state law and the Iowa Democratic Party rules governing the conduct of the caucuses," Vietor said.

Clinton spokesman Mark Daley issued a similar statement.
"



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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
9. x of y people working for _____ are registered to vote in the state!
wouldn't it be worse if 0 of y people working for ____ were registered to vote in the state?

The ... article(?) makes it sound like all of the staffers were bussed in for the campaign and are really residents of other states, whereas most of them are probably Iowans hired by the campaigns.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #9
11.  "there's concern that those operatives could show up for the Jan. 3 caucuses"
There's support for voter fraud on DU from ObamaNation.
Unfreakingbelieveable.

"there's at least some concern that those operatives could show up for the Jan. 3 precinct caucuses"
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youthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Obviously you've never attended a caucus.
You can only attend in your own precint..if those people are not residents of that precint, they can certainly attend, but they are not allowed a vote.
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. It works just like voting doesn't it, you don't just go into any place
and do your thing.
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youthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. That's right...
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 09:05 AM by youthere
you have to caucus in your own precint...and you have to be registered as a dem or repug to attend that caucus (IOW..to participate in the Dem caucus, you have to be registered as a Dem)
Also, there is no absentee process...you have to be present.
And it's not like you can drive a bus to Chicago pick up a bunch of people and bring them to caucus...there are residency requirements to register to vote.

Also..Staffers are only allowed to observe.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #24
59. It is my understanding that you don't need to be registered at all
as anything.

You can show up at the caucus and (1) do an instant registration for the first time or (2) re-register from I or R to D in that moment.

Or, (3) you can instantly re-register if you are from out of state.

All at the precinct on the night of January 3rd.

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youthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. Sorry-duplicate.
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 08:52 AM by youthere
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. "Most of the concern comes on the Democratic race"
"Most of the concern comes on the Democratic race, where - unlike the GOP - the rules governing who can participate in a caucus technically include recent residents who may leave the state immediately afterward."
No, I never attended a caucus. But since I'm not from Iowa it sure looks like I'd be welcome.
That's why the Iowa caucus is crap.
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #21
39. This is bullshit.
You need to talk to some Iowa people rather than post articles like these.

Have you ever attended an Iowa caucus?

My daughter was a caucus leader when she lived in Ames. Students there were encouraged to register. She attended school there for four years, at Iowa State. She registered as a Democrat well before the election, and was very active in Democratic politics during the time she lived there. She did not come back and vote in Illinois. She switched her place of residence and her voter registration. In fact, quite a few students vote there. Some of them even run for local office and involve themselves in local issues. She knew someone who was a student and a city office holder. He was not doing anything dishonest. He cared about local issues and did a good job.

How many people vote in the primaries in your precinct, county or state? I am in Illinois, and we get a damned low turnout, even in Presidential election years. I try to do everything I can to remedy that, but many people here do not want to declare their party. Also, many of the people I know are Democrats take repuke ballots. Often, they want to vote for someone running as a repuke in a local race.

The caucus turnout in Iowa is similarly low. Some people have never caucused. In some places, only the party faithful turn out to caucus. That means there a small number of them in each precinct.

I know the people in my precinct. I know who I can expect to turn out. If a pack of strangers showed up and claimed to be voters or caucus goers, (if we caucused here), I and a few others, would call the election authority.

If you have real concerns, why don't you post this in the Iowa forum, and ask some honest questions of Iowans who caucus?

Of course people are going to Iowa to knock on doors and make phone calls. Two people from my county went there. One of them is an elected county board member from here, and the other is our county Democrat's secretary. Both went to work for Obama. One of them went for Dean in the last election. Of course they do not try to caucus there. They go to get Iowans out to vote! There is nothing new about this. Why are people suddenly throwing around all these bullshit accusations? Go work for a candidate! Get a life!
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ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
36. Why are you singleingout Obama
51 Clinton
91 Edwards
42 Obama

Obama has the least amount. Obama, Edwards and Richardson all have college outreach programs in Iowa.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #36
57. First ask how many of those people listed were Iowa residents before
taking jobs with their respective campaigns.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
32. Self-Delete
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 09:16 AM by WesDem
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
33. *sigh*
To ensure that caucus night truly reflects the decisions made by Iowans and not people from out-of-state;

WE THE UNDERSIGNED CAMPAIGNS, to ensure a fair caucus process AND MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY OF IOWAS FIRST IN THE NATION CAUCUS, pledge that no campaign staff or out-of-state volunteers will be allowed to caucus or be counted as a caucus-goer on January 3rd.


Julie Andreeff Jensen

Paul Tewes, Obama Campaign

Teresa Vilmain, Clinton Campaign

Danny OBrien, Biden Campaign

Jennifer OMalley, Dillon Edwards Campaign

Rob Becker, Richardson Campaign"
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
34. awww, guess you're pissed cause your queen lost her lead...
call the wwwahmbulance
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. Another one who can't read. Dayum it is an epidemic.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #37
56. it's easy to read what the slant is
peace to you xultar!
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #37
60. It's an epidemic that the OP wouldn't give two shits about if it was Hillary still leading.
He only cares now because she's slipping lately and the entire Hillary camp seems very, very desperate all of a sudden. I'd bet my rent money that the OP wouldn't care in the slightest if Hillary had a safe lead in the state.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #60
66. Try reading Fork. All of the top three are called out in the linked story.
It's amazing how hatred has blinded ObamawardsNation.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
38. "Why not just stack up the money, and the highest pile wins?"
I thought that had been goin on long enough to be considered tradition by now.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
40. Just admit that Hillary is going to be in fourth place in Iowa
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 09:24 AM by zulchzulu
I saw the Iowa caucus in person in 2004 and it is a fascinating democratic process. Iowans who go to the caucus really care about their vote and are very educated on where the candidates stand on issues.

This whiplashed article vomits "there's at least some concern that those operatives could show up for the Jan. 3 precinct caucuses and distort the outcome of the opening test of the presidential nominating season."

How would "operatives" distort the outcome? If they are Iowans who can legitimately caucus, then they can vote. If they aren't, they can't. Period.

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. I doubt you'll see Clinton in 4th place.
And I gotta say, I think caucuses suck too. Primaries strike me as far more democratic.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #40
67. Wow. Aren't you dizzy from spinning that article so violently?
Your candidate is registering out of state staffers to "vote" in Iowa's caucus.
Why do you hate Democracy so much?
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
41. i agree
i'm so sick of people not rolling out the red carpet for Hillary. fuck that weak ass shit!
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #41
47. sniffa you make me smile every single day!
:hi:
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-16-07 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #47
71. thank you
i do my best. :hi:
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
43. It ain't about my candidate or yours......
There is nothing democratic about this caucus system where it can easily be seen that an Iowan caucus voter has such a mismatched advantage over primary voters in the rest of the country.

God, is the election process in this country fucked up!

Hoping that 2008 may be the last time Iowa caucuses are allowed to hold such a stranglehold on American politics.

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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
44. Yes!! Damn that Obama for helping everyone who legally can vote, vote!
come on.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
45. Supress the vote! Thats the democratic way.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
48. Please stop this INTENTIONAL disinformation....
Your first sentence is a complete, unequivocal LIE:

You said: "First we have the Obama plot to bus out-of-state students back from their homes in Illinois to caucus in Iowa..."

Fact: There is no "plot" as you erroneously describe. Obama, and all of the other candidates-
and many Iowa Democratic Party Officials--are working to help IOWA COLLEGE STUDENTS---students who LIVE IN IOWA---vote for the caucuses.

This is not a plot. It's not a conspiracy. What you are spreading is LIES.

The caucuses are held Jan 3---when these IOWA COLLEGE STUDENTS--will be temporarily home
for their semester break. Obama and others are encouraging these students to return to
their Iowa college towns and participate in the caucus.

These college students are RESIDENTS OF IOWA, LIVING IN IOWA.

Please stop this ridiculous disinformation. You are misinforming people.

Next...you AGAIN, INTENTIONALLY MISINFORM about campaign staffers who might caucus
in Iowa:

I know several staffers working on the Edwards, Obama and Biden campaigns. Guess what??
They live in Iowa! THEREFORE, THEY'RE REGISTERED TO VOTE IN IOWA!

Can we put on our thinking caps before we shift into "Oh my land! Democracy is dead!" hysterics?
Please??????

Yes, anywhere from 25 percent to 60 percent of Obama, Clinton and Edwards staff members
are registered to vote in Iowa. That's because plenty of Iowans are hired on these
staffs. Are you suggesting that registered Iowa voters, who work on political campaigns--
should not participate in their caucuses?

Furthermore, you CUT OUT the part of the article in which the Clinton and Obama camps
discuss their policies: NO OUT-OF-STATE STAFFERS WORKING FOR THEIR CAMPAIGNS
CAN CAUCUS.

If you're going to make heavy-handed accusations--such as suggesting that the caucuses "are
as far away from democracy" as possible--you might try rooting your arguments in something
that resembles the truth.

Just what exactly is your agenda...because it's certainly not about speaking the truth
about the Iowa caucuses?



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youthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. There you go...spewing FACTS.
LOL!
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #48
51. Easy, it is straight up flamebait.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
50. Do away with the Iowa "first in the nation bamboozle...."
...and establish a national elimination primary on one day all over the country. To be followed by a general election on the first weekend in November.

And enforce the federal laws regarding one person, one vote in every state.

I don't care which "campaign" is doing it or not. Trucking people accross state lines to vote in primaries, crossing party lines to affect competitive races, all the other reasons I have heard every election - is bullshit. Forget about your candidate for a second and think about it.

Why do so many in this country fear free elections with every vote counting equally?
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #50
53. It seems it is you who fears free elections....
"Bussing" people who are leaglly allowed to vote, back into the state over the Christmas Holiday is not devious or a threat to free elections. In fact its the exact opposite, allowing everyone who can vote, a chance to.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. Bussing people across state lines is not free and equal elections...
It is an attempt to artificially affect an election outcome by using people who would normally not even consider "crossing state lines" to vote. In fact, as students, they would not even consider voting during a holiday break from classes.

.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #55
63. it's the Virgin Mary's fault!
if not for her son's b-day none of this shit would be happening. she should have had an Aquarian.
:0
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Stop Cornyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
54. I anticipate you will here MANY Hillary fanatics echoing this theme over the next 4 weeks.
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Broke Dad Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. Re: Amen
Now that Iowans know the real Hillary and are backing away, her supporters want to attack us.

Okay, Hillary you can go home now.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #54
61. Kicking, because it always helps to have Hill's shrill fans going negative
in increasingly desperate ways.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. Try reading - Clinton is singled out in the linked story too.
Reading is fundemental.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #64
68. Spelling is fundamental, too :-)
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