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fightindonkey Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:59 AM
Original message
Obama Will Never Win
It comes down to this: Do you want to win, or do you want to live in a fantasy world and lose 40 states. People, don't make the same stupid mistake again by nominating Obama. This is just ridiculous. He cannot win for every reason in the book. He is not known. He has no experience, no record, is totally naive, he's black, would need the South to win. Conservatives can throw anything onto a person who the public doesn't know about and have it stick. They have people believing that he was schooled in a Madrassa, and has Muslim ties. His middle name is Hussein. People are not going to elect a guy with no experience to handle a world at war. Wake up!

I am tired of you morons losing elections for this same bullshit! Obama needs to hit the road, fast!
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Nutmegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yeaaaah! Clinton all the way! She's the only one who can win!
USA! USA! USA!
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fightindonkey Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. No
Listen I would be for Edwards too, until the haircut and image tore down. Obama is just not it.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. Hi -- Welcome to DU!
I'm sure your newfound friends will love being referred to as morons. And I believe the correct spelling would be morans.

:hi:
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fightindonkey Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. I'm Not New, Obama Reeks of Jimmy Carter
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Carter won in 76.
Just sayin'.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. David Petreaus is considering a 2012 run.
I could see another 1980 happening with that David BEtreaus!
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #13
71. You're trying too hard.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:06 AM
Original message
So he smells like a winner then, right?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
31. So, um...he reeks like a guy who won?
Okay by me.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
40. You're not going to be old either.
:hi:
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #7
89. I believe Jimmy Carter won nomination twice, defeating formidable
challenges by Mo Udall, Ted Kennedy, and the like.

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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
49. Ok, talk to me like I'm two...
What is a moran? LOL...

moron; meaning a stupid person, yes, but I am not familiar with; moran?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #49
53. Welcome to the Internets
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #53
65. Sheesh....I feel sorry for the Cardinals, LOL...
he had their shirt on, LOL..
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #49
61. 'Tis an old DU joke that most old timers do appreciate and have changed the spelling
that complies with our freeper friends.

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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #61
64. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA hahahahahahaha.....
Gotcha! Figures...
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. YUKKKKKKK
:puke:
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. Amen.
:puke:
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David Dunham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. You are correct. Obama cannot win the general election.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
33. Another fine drive by post by David.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
34. Do you not expand beyond just a subject because that is all your brain can handle?
Short quick sentences without any substantive arguments.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
6. The better he does, the dumber the arguments against him get
Why is that?
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fightindonkey Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. The Arguments Stand And Will Continue To Stand
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. Well, if you're so concerned, take your donkeyass to Iowa then
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 01:09 AM by BeyondGeography
and talk all of those morons out of caucusing for him before it's too late.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #9
28. What arguments?
"He's too naive?" Looks to me like he's taking on Clinton--the most experienced, most hardball campaigner in this race--and winning.
"He's unknown?" He's got great name recognition, and is doing an effective job of defining himself to a general audience.
"He's black?" :eyes:
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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #28
92. The OP said point blank Obama could not win because he is black. SHAME!
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 05:54 AM by earthlover
For one thing, this is not true. America is ready to vote for an African American to be president.

By the way, when is the last time an African American has been nominated by a major party and lost?

If we don't nominate someone because he is black, we are just as racially influenced in our thinking as any bigot. We are better than that.

Your post is disrespectful in so many ways to so many people.

After Obama wins, there won't be people doing the footwork for bigots by saying future candidates cannot win because they are black.

It will be good thing not to see the iconoclasts here for future candidates.

We need to move forward, and you are dragging us down.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
8. You are telling the truth, and you will be mocked and ignored.
Obama acts all nice and stuff, but that doesn't cut it. I don't care about having a beer with the President. I want someone who can win and govern!
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fightindonkey Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
23. Exactly, And Look I Will Vote For Whomever The Nominee Be
But I'm telling you, Obama is not "it". Not by a long shot. I want to win, period. I'm tired of the worst unwinnable candidate being put up because people "like" his personality. He has no record and no experience. That sticks and he will lose.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. And we agree!
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #23
45. Wasnt the reason we got Kerry last time
Because he was electable?

How did that work out?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #45
58. Unable to attack him for legitimate reasons, they simply made shit up.
Hey, whaddya know, works just as well.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
83. While the OP stated it bluntly
he/she happens to be right. I'll gladly vote for Obama if he's the candidate because I think he's a good man and I'd cut my arm off before I'd vote for the pubbies and not voting is not a credible option for me. This country, very simply, will not vote for a black man who's middle name is Huessin. I wish this wasn't a horribly racist country, but it is. Sometimes the truth really does hurt and this is one of those times.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #83
88. nonsense. do you realize what you sound like?
This country certainly has racism problems, but people are becoming accustomed to people of color being in positions of power. You're not some fount of truth. That's a delusion. You don't fucking know whether this country will elect a black man, but saying that it won't is just pathetic.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #88
99. Back off sister
I'm just as entitled to an opinion as you are and having travelled around this country quite a bit, I'm always amazed at how backwards people still are...people I've known through work and play. Why the hell do you think that although blacks are often up in the polls before elections, they wind up losing them? People don't admit it out loud, but they are still afraid of people who don't look like them. You want to put your head in the sand, be my guest. But if you think it's delusional that this isn't a racist country - and not just a little bit, you're naive. Time for you to grow up.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #99
103. umm, no.
I've also traveled around this country and I've noticed that things are changing. And you provide no examples of your claim that blacks are often up in the polls but then people don't vote for them. If you're thinking Harold Ford, you'd be wrong. He made a very strong showing in Tenessee despite his connections with his own corrupt family and his playboy image.

Time for you to stop embracing the Obama can't win because he's black meme, just because it suits your Clinton bias.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #103
104. Nice try but once again wrong
Biden and Richardson are my candidates and always has been. I've always said I would vote for whatever dem gets the nod - I think they're all great. I've defended both Hillary and Barak when I see them attacked without premise - perhaps that's what had you fooled.

Like I said before, feel free to think what you want. I'll do the same. You want to think this country has come far in the race department, knock yourself out.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
11. He's naive (in that Constitutional-law professor sorta way.)
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 01:06 AM by Occam Bandage
He has no record (in that decade of public service sorta way.)
He's not known (except for the fact that he has excellent name recognition.)
He can't win the south (except that he polls better among Republicans than any other Democrat.)

He is black, though. So, um, there's that. It doesn't seem to be hurting him in the polls, and that makes sense--the people who would be affected by his race are already in the Republican camp.
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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #11
75. Would you please stop posting facts of this sort
It makes it difficult for the rest of us to "catapault the propaganda".

No. I am voting for Edwards because Obama wants to make nice and quite frankly I don't believe in making nice anymore.

Other than that, I think the dude is a fine human being I would be fuckin' proud to call my President.
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BluegrassDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
12. African-American turnout will be historic
So whatever racists he loses he gains many more black people that will come out in droves to vote for him. Most black people won't miss the chance to vote for the first ever black president in a general election. So that'll put some states in play in the south for sure.
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fightindonkey Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. LOL! You're really New To This Election Thing
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. And whats ur point with this comment.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. The faux-expert ploy.
A: "Here's what I believe. I believe it because it's obviously true, despite the fact that I have no supporting evidence."
B: "Sorry, not convinced."
A: "That's because you're a noob."
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
78. That will put most
states in the south in play. Standard dems, moderate republicans who are sick of the pro war party of Bush, and black people voting in droves could equal wins in many states in Dixie.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
14. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
KingFlorez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
15. Your entire post is ludricrious
I think it's you that is in the fantasy world.
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ariesgem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
18. Enjoy your stay.
5, 4, 3, 2......... :nuke:



:popcorn:
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
19. "Obama needs to hit the road"--Bwaaaahhhh! He's pretty much the frontrunner
in several states. Yeah, you're right, he should just hang it up--in fact, he should just quit even before the Iowa caucuses, and apologize to the country for even DARING to run for President!
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fightindonkey Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. No He Isn't
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #26
90. A pretty strong case could be made that he is.
Senator Clinton's lead in Iowa is gone; Obama is shown now in polling to be the leader there.

Obama is at or near the top in New Hampshire.

Obama is at or near the top in South Carolina.

Nationally, her numbers are lower than a month ago; his are higher.

He's packing venues everywhere he shows up.

What newspaper do you read?
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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #26
94. So....what white candidate are you supporting?
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
20. Chelsea, is that you?
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 01:09 AM by ClarkUSA
Put down the vodka and go to bed. You've got another photo-op with Mommy tomorrow.
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #20
102. Good one!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
21. What I want to say...
would get my post deleted.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
22. I doubt even gravel could lose to the republican field
If ever there was an election to vote your heart this one is it. Unfortunately My heart loves so many of them I cant figure out which one to pick.

Kicking for dumb ass post of the year award.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #22
52. It Isn't the Republican Field We Are Running Against. It is the Republican MEDIA
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #52
68. Still even they cant detract the public this time
All of the issues they are trying to push are failing with public despite their best efforts.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
30. Unfortunately, All of Our Candidates Have That Problem
We have the weakest candidates the Democratic Party has ever seen.
Even whatever nutbar that the Repiglickons end up running may very well "win" again.

We need GORE!
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Only a deadlocked convention will get Gore in now.
.
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Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. And that would be the best thing that ever happenned to this party
AND this country.

Put an end to this sick game of BUYING a nomination by February once and for all.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. I can agree taht it would be the best thing to happen to this party.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #35
43. I'd vote for Roosevelt, Franklin Delano.
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Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #43
59. If he were still alive, I'd vote for him as well.
Shit, give him 4 more terms!!

And he might even be immune to the 22nd amendment, since it didn't pass until after his last term. Unfortunately, that whole "being dead" thing really messes up his chances. :(
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #30
79. Kucinich
is not weak at all. He is taking the most daring stands in Washington, along with a certain Republican from Texas.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
36. All you wanted to write was "he's black"
You didn't need to bury it in the middle of a paragraph. It's obvious.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. Obama, in OP's eyes.
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Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #41
62. CB4 in tha muthaphuckin house.....
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
37. That's a little harsh, and there's no need for namecalling
That said, I don't think he can win either. Those enraptured by his "aura" refuse to acknowledge the manifold political liabilities he presents, all of which can and will be exploited with considerable success by the Republicans if he's the nominee. They refuse to acknowledge them because they want to think that people are fair and can't be swayed by attacks and dirty tricks. That's to their credit--because in a fair world, none of those things should matter in American politics. But they forget that Republicans have made an art form out of fighting unfairly, and they have learned how to make dirty tricks work for them instead of against them. Add to that their penchant for election fraud and I think you can almost picture the disaster an Obama nomination would present on election day.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #37
42. See, those who are stuck in Obama's "aura" are just...
as bad as the right wing fundies. You can't reason with them. They don't see that the GE is going to be a horrifically dirty fight.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:22 AM
Original message
They want what's best for our country too
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 01:24 AM by Harvey Korman
and they really believe in Obama, even if some of them defend their faith in him almost fanatically. I have been disappointed by certain things Obama has done but I think he is a fundamentally good man who is trying to rise to the top before he's ready. That said, I agree with you that this GE is going to be the worst ever because it's almost universally true that Republicans fight the dirtiest for that to which they are least entitled. They deserve to lose this election, and they know it, and they will do whatever they have to to counterbalance their own negative image by bringing down the Dem candidate in the public's eyes.
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Dammit Ann Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 02:17 AM
Response to Original message
77. Wow.
Absolutely, scathingly, brilliantly on target you are. Bravo. Thanks for the pail of cold water. Sometimes we need it.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #42
47. Oh, sure I do.
I also see that trying to avoid the RW smears is a naive game. John Kerry was an unimpeachable candidate. We picked him because his record was near-perfect. They literally invented a false history regarding his war career with which to slander him. Pretending that any candidate is particularly prone to having shit made up about them is, well, stupid.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #47
57. That's a good point, I'll give you that
Although personally I don't think John Kerry's public persona was compelling enough at that time to secure what should have been a landslide. Then there was the clear evidence of election fraud which autorank/TIA/et al have documented so comprehensively. And even with all that, Kerry won the second-highest number of votes in American history.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #57
63. And that's why I think Obama has a better shot than Clinton.
The public persona. I think Obama is, intrinsically, more compelling than Clinton is. (As for who will fight fraud? Won't know 'till we get there. You could make a case for why any would or wouldn't.)

Now, I don't think Obama is our absolute best shot (see my avatar), but I think he's going to have the teflon factor working in his favor. With the exception of racists and xenophobes (who we aren't getting to vote for us anyway) people want to like him. As Clinton is demonstrating in Iowa and NH, going strong negative against him can backfire. People aren't believing he's a bad guy, and so when he gets slandered, they blame the attacker and not the attackee.

Now, I don't think for a minute that his teflon will hold up throughout the entire general election. But I think he'll be more resistant than Hillary will.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #63
66. Well I disagree with your ordering, there
Even though Kucinich is the candidate who best represents my political beliefs and who I believe deserves the greatest support from progressives, I think that Biden (as my #2 choice) is probably the most electable candidate we have. He's got the experience AND the personality AND the wit AND, more importantly to this election, the backbone to fight back and do it with style.

Something tells me you agree. ;)
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. I can *certainly* agree with that.
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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #42
95. Well, if you are right we are in trouble because the only one who can beat Obama is Hillary
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 06:12 AM by earthlover
or maybe Edwards.

Hillary would be even easier game for the Rep dirt maching. Everyone knows this. Heck, already 50% of Americans would never vote for her. The Reps don't even have to swift boat her, but they will do so anyway.
Hillary would drive Reps to the polls in record numbers, record turnout among Reps. Meanwhile, she has luke warm divisive support among Dems. She will have difficulty among independents to. She may be the only chance the Reps have of winning, with their weak slate.

Compared to Hillary, I like Obama's chances. He has a chance at least, and Hillary has almost zero chance.

Edwards could win, but he would face just as many issues as Obama.

Heck, besides Hillary, they all would win in a landslide. Hillary is the only one who can't, and even she could squeak by with a miracle, although there is no way she would have coat tails.
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
38. Oh he can win a popular majority alright.
What Dem couldn't in this election? The question is whether enough of those votes will count. That's not specifically his problem but it's huge.
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
44. Oh well, then we'll lose three elections in a row.......
I guess we never learn. How many two term presidents has the party had in more than half a century? Only two: FDR and Clinton. But hey, let's keep putting down the 90s and choose the guy who's least experienced. Why try to win in 2008?
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #44
48. kick
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #44
60. Unfortunately BILL Clinton isn't Running
and Hillary Clinton does not have anywhere near the appeal that her husband does.

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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #44
80. well
Clinton sold out the working classes in the 90's with NAFTA and welfare cuts. I don't give a damn if he had 2 terms. He did nothing to win the working people back from Reagan and the Republicans. He simply abandoned them rather than appealed to them.
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loveangelc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
46. Hillary has less of a chance to win than Obama.
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #46
51. Absolutely! And if this thread was in her name "Hillary can't win" they would lock it...
I still haven't figured out why they let these flame-bait Obama threads stay -- but they do ---- as long as you don't title them "Hillary can't win"

..........
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. We should test that theory.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #51
97. nonsense. their have been literally hundreds of flamebait
Clinton threads that haven't been locked.
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galledgoblin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
50. I disagree
I think that if Obama gets the nomination we're going to see something amazing happen:

people will actually give a damn.

this could be an election we will all be telling our grandchildren about.
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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #50
96. And it will be the nay sayers here who'll have to tell their grandchildren they tried to stop it
And the grand children will say.....wow, that was an historic election, tell me about it....

And you will have to tell them that if you had your way Obama would never have been nominated because you were afraid of the fight

So we nominated someone from the establishment that we thought would be less risky but then things blew up and she turned out to be even more risky

And that, grandchildren, is how Huckabee got elected president.
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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
54. Oh, please
While my man Edwards currently shows the highest probability of crushing the Rethuglicans in 2008, I am quite certain that Obama will be victorious. Or Clinton. And in any of these cases, the nation will be far better served than we have experienced lately ...

People ... the only opponents we must needs concerns ourselves are McCain (because his brave, honest, and sometimes rational) and the Huckster (because he is basically a guy who really tries hard to be nice and decent). The rest are ass clowns, of the sort the country can now smell and really, really doesn't want to deal with anymore.

Let me make this perfectly clear, to quote a famous Rethuglican ... if we lose this one, it is our own damn fault.

Let us not worry about who is "electable". Let us instead focus on how best we Democrats can serve our country. John Edwards and Dennis Kucinich have rightly named the disease ... corporatism has achieved too much power. Who now can claim the proper cure? We can now serve our country best by coming to the correct answer and voting accordingly.

Hillary is not a corporatist whore. Obama is not a shallow flash in the pan. John Edwards earned every damn one of his hair cuts and cares passionately about his fellow man. Dennis Kucinich has this annoying habit of being right when he takes unpopular positions. Joe Biden is wise, rational, and has always had his heart in the right place. Chris Dodd is the kind of liberal my Dad would have beat me up for not supporting, driven by both heart and mind, and Bill Richardson has credentials that would crush those of any of his last five predecessors (Bush II, Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, Carter).

We need to detach from the rhetoric, eschew the hyperbole, and take a long look at these people. They all have virtues, They all have warts. They are real people, after all. But these are fine ones, and we must choose.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. Nice post. Worthy of its own thread. Thank you.
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 01:28 AM by Occam Bandage
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #54
70. If only this was the OP
Well said I am for the most part a kid in a candy store this election. There are so many good people to chose from I doubt I will make up my mind till the timer runs out on caucus day.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #70
72. Absolutely. I could vote for any of them and walk out of that school feeling good.
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
69. P.O.S. ****FLAME BAIT THREAD*****

FightingDonkey needs to take a breather from this place ---
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #69
105. more brains
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
73. Boy, Hillaryworld must be desperate to vomit such venom at Obama... how amusing!
:nopity:
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #73
82. Poor Obama. How does he stand it all? The poor thing. n/t
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
74. OP, condensed to the essentials:
Obama. He's black. His middle name is Hussein.

I am tired of you morons.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
76. Enjoy your pizza
You've definitely earned it with this load of asinine drivel.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
81. Well, who can argue with you on this?
not me.
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Yukari Yakumo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:30 AM
Response to Original message
84. I'm amazed you haven't been tombstoned yet... {nt}
uguu
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:46 AM
Response to Original message
85. Your uncouth rant aside, people do not seem to realize just how racist this country still is.
I am a union construction electrician as are my co-workers (obviously) and I live in a hugely Democratic city but time and again I hear the majority saying that they would rather see a Republican be elected than a black man (they don't say "black man") or a woman (they don't say "woman") in spite of the fact that either one of those people would be far more on their side than any of the "safe" Republican men. It's a worse problem than anyone around here believes. Neither Obama nor Clinton will get close to the numbers Kerry rolled up in Philadelphia proper, let alone the suburbs that were going our way. I hate that it is this way, I really do, but it is what it is.

In response to your post I have to say You're almost completely wrong on Obama personally, he is neither naive nor is he inexperienced or recordless. He's a brilliant, capable man who's only real problem is the one fact that you got right about him, he's black. And even though it will be the year 2008, it's still a major, major sticking point with a lot of white people that vote. I fear an Obama or a Hillary candidacy will doom us as a nation to a possible three more SCJs appointed by a psycho like Guiliani or Huckabee. And if the right-wing, corporate noise machine is able to fool the masses yet again into believing the Democrats have been a bunch of do-nothings despite their slim majority in Congress we might have a Cheney on PCP in the White House as the Republicans also retake one or both houses.

You may call me overly cynical in my assessment but I just call em as I see em. Reality is an ugly thing.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:58 AM
Response to Original message
86. Us sublitrit droolerz'll vote for who we all wantsta. You don't like it -- tough taffy.
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 05:22 AM by Old Crusoe
))))))
There is a faint sense of analysis in your post but it's so faint as to be inconsequential to the matter at hand.

Even pre-Oprah, Senator Obama was drawing very impressive crowds. Note, for instance the rally in lower Manhattan. And the change in venue to a larger arena in Madison. Etc.

National polling shows him at or near the top IA, NH, and SC.

Either all those many thousands and millions of people are as you say, "morons," or -- and this is my guess -- you're mistaken.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:06 AM
Response to Original message
87. bullshit, fightinass
Obama has handled that shit just fine, and if he's the nominee, he'll be elected. He doesn't need the South to win. That's just fucking stupid ignorance. Who's going to beat him? Cardboard cutout Romney? Huckabee? Guiliani? Obama will do just fine.

I'm sick of this stupid crap about Obama.

It's not Obama who needs to hit the road.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:26 AM
Response to Original message
91. mmm, flamebait this early in the morning
yummo. :9

welcome back to DU. :hi:
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
93. Wow, welcome to DU! Nice post.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #93
100. Doesn't matter how foul or racist, as long as it props up Hillary.
A bunch of Mark Penn wannabe's. Disgusting.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
98. You seem to be positing total amnesia of all voters for the last seven years.
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 06:44 AM by Perry Logan
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
101. This is a joke, right?
Please put the :sarcasm: icon when you type your OP.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
106. So vote for Goooooliani...
...and lay off the booze.

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wakemeupwhenitsover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
107. I'm going to lock this.
Accusing DUers of being morons is a group attack.

best,
wakemeupwhenitsover
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