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Does Cindy Sheehan campaign to unseat House Speaker Nancy Pelosi have more traction now?

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kansasblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 09:58 AM
Original message
Does Cindy Sheehan campaign to unseat House Speaker Nancy Pelosi have more traction now?
In light of the waterboarding briefing?

Lawmakers were aware of waterboarding, did not object

With one known exception, no formal objections were raised by the lawmakers briefed about the harsh methods during the two years in which waterboarding was employed, from 2002 to 2003, said Democrats and Republicans with direct knowledge of the matter. The lawmakers who held oversight roles during the period included Pelosi and fellow Democrats Rep. Jane Harman (Calif.) and Sens. Bob Graham (Fla.) and John D. Rockefeller IV (W.Va.), and Republicans Rep. Porter Goss (Fla.) and Sen. Pat Roberts (Kan).

http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/246830/
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. Cindy can crawl under a rock and rot.
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BigDDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
2. Cindy who?
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. No. There might be a candidate to beat Pelosi, but it isn't Sheehan. nt
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
4. I doubt it
she probably won't get 5% of the vote.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. Have the unhappy people changed since Sheehan's original announcement?
I get the impression we're dealing with the same folks who have been disappointed with Pelosi.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
6. no. she's utterly hapless as a candidate. n/t
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
7. No. n/t
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BigDDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
8. The same 5 people that think DK is going to get the nomination
are the ones who think Cindy will be Nancy.

Ain't gonna happen.
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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
9. It's amazing how Liberal Democrats and leftists are taught to hate themselves
It's really evident on these threads. Some of it also staunch loyalty to party over principle as well. If those on the left in this party are that convinced that what they advocate for are necasary then they should put their money where their mouth is. If those in the center don't want "Nader" part deux, stop taking the left for a ride expecting them to carry you every election.

Electability is a false construct.

There's no reason why folks like Kucinich or Sheehan can't win. If folks in this party want to talk a big game about ending the war, vote for the candidate that is most serious about. Not the candidate that offers all sorts of stupid excuses for voting for while shitting on those that are serious about putting a stop to it.

If folks did that then outside shit shit disturbers, who many folks claim are stealing votes from the party, would not run.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I think for myself- unlike, I've noticed, some on this side of the
fence. They drink all the lefty koolaid. I don't support Sheehan because I am underwhelmed by her. I think she's essentially an ignorant person. Someone qualified needed to challenge Pelosi in the dem primary. To date, that hasn't happened.
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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Where does the left get it's "lefty koolaid"
I suppose if Sheehan is "incompetent" I suppose you hold the view that the folks in government are competent. If they haven't proven to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that most of them don't belong there then I have to question where you get your Koolaid from?

Most people these days who are of the leftist persuasion get there because they exercise some critical thinking. They question why we have a democracy that's supposed to be representative of the people and the people running it are far from being of the people. They are the elite upper class and constantly hold the view that those that dig ditches and build houses for a living are incapable of running the country.

Hence the fuck ups in congress are the competent class and the creator of wealth are the in incompetent class. They prefer that we all slink back to our holes and not challenge them. They are comforted by this thought.

Most of the people running for president are incompetent as fuck and now advocate for cause which they played a big part in destroying. But I suppose even framing this a matter of "competence" is where they would like to keep it.

Not that these fuckups ever purposfully voted for a bill to enrich their own class status.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. bzzzt. logic is evidently not your strong point.
I never said anything about the competence of the dems in the Congress. Some are. The leadership isn't. I don't know the numbers of who is and isn't competent. I know my congressional delegation is. There are several others I could name who are. There are several I could name who aren't competent in my estimation. And there are many I'm not knowledgable enough about to judge.

Where does the left get its koolaid? Some folks talk like they imbibed the Counterpunch brand. I don't know where else they get it from. Me? I read books, journals and listen to CBC and the BBC for my everyday information. Also Democracy Now! No MSM at all, unless you count the Sunday Times, but hey, I'm not about to give up the Arts section or most of all, the crossword.

I don't do simple when it comes to the complexities of society and government.
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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. What the fuck is "counterpunch"?
Edited on Tue Dec-11-07 11:18 AM by inthebrain
And how dare you speak of logic while using "some folk" as a source. I don't even know what the fuck counterpunch is so I doubt I can be placed in that category. Yet it does sound to me like you get a healthy dose of KoolAid yourself.

If your claiming that one is incompetent then it is only "logical" that you provide and example of competence. And while claiming that one is incompetent while also claiming that you don't know who is and who isn't competent is the very essence of "illogical". You have no rationale to provide how you landed at that conclusion.

I should also add that framing this as an issue of "competence" is also the fucking epiphany of kool Aid drinking. Nothing that has occurred in government as far as the collapse of social programs and the drawn out Iraq war is a matter of "competence".
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. "The fucking epiphany of kool aid drinking?"
Edited on Tue Dec-11-07 11:29 AM by Occam Bandage
:rofl:

I'M SERIES! THIS IS HUGH!
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. oh man.
another sad mess of a post from you. You asked where koolaid drinkers of the left got their koolaid. I answered. You didn't ask me who I thought was competent, ergo, I didn't go into that.

As for your "fucking epiphany of kool Aid drinking", it's a classic. :rofl:
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
14. The only people who think she has a shot are the people who think DK's about to rally.
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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Coming from you? The Biden sycophant? Mr Bankruptcy Bill himself?
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. I never once claimed he has a realistic shot.
In fact, I plan on voting for Obama (I'm in a Super Tuesday state), simply because I prefer him to Hillary. However, I support Biden above all other candidates.
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Tarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
16. Her 15 minutes were up long, long ago.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-11-07 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
20. Yes, I think it could "have more traction" given Pelosi's collusion on torture--
...whatever "more traction" means. "Traction" in the war profiteering corporate news monopolies? No. "Traction" with voters (and donors) who hear about it? Yes, quite possibly. "Traction" enough to defeat Pelosi? Probably not. "Traction" enough to put a dent in her support, to "send her a message"? Yes, possibly.

People who dis alternative candidates (--alternatives to Corporatecrats and War funders and players-of-games on torture), merely for running against establishment candidates, do not really believe in democracy, it seems to me. And I think it's a serious misunderstanding of reality to think, for instance, that Nader was the one who kept Gore out of the White House, and inflicted the Bush Junta upon us. The Bush Junta was long planned, as was their corporate resource war. The global corporate predators who are behind it would have succeeded, one way or another, in their plan to put a dimwit frontman in the White House, with the title of president, to wage war for the Mideast oil fields, and to loot us blind, and shred our Constitution. It wasn't a matter of the numbers (the hanging chads, et al); it was a matter of POWER. But unless you realize that what we have suffered is a fascist coup, then you may fantasize that it could have been prevented, and that it must be Nader's fault. It really was not. And that mistake can lead to other critically important strategy mistakes among folks--political leaders, activists--who really do represent the majority of Americans, one of their mistakes being a failure to look at the mechanisms of power for the solution.

70% of the American people oppose the Iraq War and want it ended--up from 56% at the beginning of the war (Feb. '03). 56% is a significant majority. It would be a landslide in a presidential election (and believe me, it was). But now it's a whopping--epoch-making--anti-war majority of 70%. And, if this is a democracy, how can that whopping majority be ignored? Well, it IS being ignored--as Congress pours billions more of our tax dollars into Bush and Cheney's hands, for an EXPANSION of the occupation and more killing of insurgent Iraqis (who have a right to be there, while the U.S. has no right whatever to be occupying that country, dominating its government, killing its citizens, and demanding local signatures on oil contracts that clearly fleece the Iraqi people out of most of their oil profits).

So, do we the people--70% of whom oppose the war--and, we the members of the Democratic Party--about 90% of whom oppose the war--HAVE TO *DO* TO GET REPRESENTATION in Washington DC?!

If we can't get representation even from our leftist political leaders (left on a short spectrum, that is skewed way to the right), WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO?

Our leaders are DEAF to us. And they all supported rigging the voting system--if not by their votes, by their deafening silence about it.

I think it's been a critically important strategic error, on the part of the anti-war movement, not to go after the voting machines, as vigorously as they have gone after the warmongers. If all anti-war protests to this point had had an equal number of signs that said, "Hand-counted paper ballots NOW!," along with "No War For Oil!," we would be facing a far different and far better political situation. The election reform movement would be further along. The American people would be more aware of what has been done to them (quite literal disenfranchisement), and further election fraud (such as that which occurred in '06, limiting the anti-war win) would be more difficult for the coupsters to pull off.

But anti-war activists have made the same mistake as Democrats who blame Nader--the mistake of presuming that these are normal political times, and that all we need is more votes and more donations, or more and bigger protests, to bring about a change of course in the government. It is a delusion that is constantly fed by the war profiteering corporate news monopolies, and by our party leaders as well. We need to look to the MECHANISMS of the peoples' power for what is wrong. We CANNOT influence government policy. They are deaf to us. Why? Because they are not beholden to us. That is why. And they have now destroyed the most fundamental mechanism of accountability--TRANSPARENT counting of the peoples' votes.

An antiwar candidate--especially one of Cindy Sheehan's stature--defecting from the Democratic Party, and running as an independent, against a collusive and deceptively leftist establishment public official (Pelosi), does not bother me at all. It won't hurt Pelosi to be pressured from the left (which is really the middle, on an unskewed political spectrum). And if Sheehan does well, it would be great. Warmonger and corporate-apologist Democrats would thus be warned. Even in the unlikely event of Sheehan beating Pelosi, it would do nothing but good for the Democratic Party. Maybe we would at last get our party back--we, the majority--the workers, the poor, the lower middle class, the cannon fodder, who have no representation now.

I'm a 40 year Democratic Party member, voter, supporter and activist. And my personal assessment of the situation is that we must work within this party to change it, and to achieve representation for the majority of Americans. My main reason is fear of the kind of fracturing and splintering of the center/left in Germany in the early 1930s. The inability of the center-left government to govern paved the way for Hitler's rise. The two situations are not exactly parallel, but historical parallels never are--and there are lessons to heed. One of them is that, when things get as bad as they are now in the U.S., some of the very best people get pushed (or take themselves) further and further to the margins, as to their notion of the remedy. They become understandably enraged at what is happening, compromise becomes intolerable, coalitions become difficult to form, and the government cannot function. We are in a very perilous condition as a country, with crises pending on every front, including an unprecedented one--global warming and the death of our planet's biosphere. This fascist/corporate-induced disaster--on every front (economic, environmental, governmental, infrastructural, constitutional--is going to require extraordinary cooperation and unity among Americans, if we are to survive it, as a people, with a decent democracy in a livable country.

And it is furthermore essential that the U.S. begin providing leadership in the world, on global warming, peace and social justice. One of the reasons we have been disenfranchised is our great potential, as a people, for progressive leadership, in particular as to curtailing the global corporate predators who operate from our shores, including the war profiteers. It's a sort of left-handed compliment (so to speak). Special efforts have been undertaken to shut us up, to disempower us. We shouldn't permit "divide and conquer" to make things worse. It is a Bushite/corporate-fascist specialty. It hasn't worked in South America, where they've been experimenting with it. But it is something to be wary of here.

We need solutions--not fracturing. And we are more than likely going to have to deal with a kind of Vichy government for some time to come--until we restore transparent vote counting. It's disgusting, and enraging. But I think that's the reality, and the more we can focus and concentrate the left (the majority) in this country on very practical, achievable and essential goals--like transparent elections--the more chance we have of saving our democracy, stopping the warmongers and throwing the corporate rulers off our backs, not to mention saving our planet.
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