Wait a second, is it true Hillary said universal healthcare by the end of her SECOND term?

[PresidentObama]

I ask because I was looking at the issues matrix of the candidates on MSNBC.com, and it said Hillary Clinton has vowed to have universal healthcare for all Americans by the end of her second term.

So we could go eight more years before we have universal healthcare?

One year. Two years. Three years. Four. Five. Or six.

Seems like too many to me.

Why can't she commit like Senator Edwards to pass universal healthcare in the first year, and the first six months?

She's bashing Senator Obama's plan, but yet she could possibly WAIT to try and pass her universal healthcare plan?

It's bad enough having the person who takes hundreds of thousands of dollars from the industry telling us she'll pass universal healthcare, but now this?

I just can't get on board with Senator Clinton. No matter how much I respect and admire her, and love her husband.

Here's the link to the MSNBC issues matrix: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21116732

[shraby]

1. Not only that, but she is assuming she will have

a second term.

[Froward69]

2. or like Joe Biden and start by the end of January '09

???????????????????????

[PresidentObama]

4. Exactly. We need a President who will aggressively fight for universal healthcare.

Not wait two years. Four years. Or six.

[patrice]

7. Edwards + Biden has a nice ring to it don't you think? nt

[PresidentObama]

14. It sure does.

[druidity33]

27. i'd rather

Edwards + Kucinich.

with Biden as Sec of State, and RFK Jr as Attorney General.

[Tellurian]

10. Where is the link to the msnbc article?

[PresidentObama]

13. Here you go:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21116732

Go to Hillary and healthcare, and zoom in.

[Tellurian]

16. Yup, I did..and I've sent the link on for info verification..

Seems to me the info in the matrix is bogus. It defies logic why she would make a statement like that..I can only assume for now, the info is incorrect and misleading..So, I with hold any derogatory statements for now, until I know that info is true and correct.

[Renew Deal]

17. You wouldn't be so forgiving if it was Obama or Edwards

Are you willing ot switch candidates if this is true?

[Tellurian]

31. I don't consider either of those two candidates patrons of the Truth or accuracy..

so flog me for it!

[Renew Deal]

18. Hillary said it.

"Well, I want to have universal health care coverage by the end of my second term."

http://www.ontheissues.org/Archive/2007_Dem_AFSCME_NV_Hillary_Clinton.htm

[earthlover]

57. she said WANT TO....will not even commit to having .....

I WANT TO live forever. Doesn't mean I will.

Hillary has said....nothing!

[PresidentObama]

19. Tellurian, it's true...she said it. With further research, she said it at a debate.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Archive/2007_Dem_AFSCME_NV_Hillary_Clinton.htm

At the AFSCME debate....

"You know, President Kennedy said in his inauguration that he wanted to have a man on the moon by the end of the decade. Well, I want to have universal health care coverage by the end of my second term."

[BootinUp]

22. The question is whether she is leading

or not in the right direction, judging by the plan she has released, the answer is that she is. Also what is the definition of "Universal Health Care" as she used it in that sentence might be worth a look.

[Renew Deal]

26. The only one offering true universal care is Kucinich. Everyone else is borrowing the name.

[BootinUp]

28. I tend to agree, however

I still think her plan is plenty ambitious and would be a big step in the right direction.

[earthlover]

58. hell, Hoover was going in the right direction after the Crash....just too slow....

Hillary: the Hoover of Health Care

[BootinUp]

59. That seems to me to

be an extreme position on Hillary's healthcare proposals which are currently touted by many on the liberal side as quite progressive.

[BootinUp]

24. This was before she released her plan. nt

[PresidentObama]

29. Ok? But she's said universal healthcare before the end of her second term before then.

Show me the link where she's said otherwise....

Has she changed her own mind and now going to be more aggressive at getting it past in the first term?

First six months?

[BootinUp]

33. I assume that her plan is intended to be implemented in her first term. nt

[PresidentObama]

So assuming versus what's she said? Hmmm....

I'm going to go with what she's said.

Her almost exact words are UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE (which her plan is universal healthcare) by the END of her SECOND term!!

Not first. Doesn't matter if it was before her plan was released. She said universal healthcare by the end of her second term, which her plan is universal healthcare.

You can debate whether she'll get it done in the first term, and assume all you want. I'm just posting what she's said, and I think I have a right to find it...troubling...

[BootinUp]

39. Healthcare reform will happen

only as fast as Americans want it to, and having the right plan is key to making it faster and better. Promises from candidates on when complex issues get resolved (not entirely under their control) are not a deal maker or breaker for me. I prefer to judge on whether they are leading in the right direction, emphasizing their plan and building political support for it.

It easy to make a promise, a lot tougher to keep it.

[Renew Deal]

41. Saying she'll do health care in her second term is a promise she can't easily keep.

I'll accept that she'd do it in her first term because candidates make promises. But I don't think she should promise to do it in her second term. That seems like an empty promise. You'd be taking a gamble that she can get elected and then RE-elected. If she doesn't get re-elected, it's not going to happen. That's not a good gamble.

[BootinUp]

46. A Presidential campaign is where you find out

how much political will on the part of the people there is to make something happen. If candidates have detailed plans they have run on and they win a big victory showing acceptance of the plan, it can be very quickly. I think its not entirely fair to to judge her intentions by that old quote as every candidate will make adjustments based on feedback all the way up to inauguration day.

[Renew Deal]

49. I agree about the old quote thing.

I think it should be clarified. But if that's still her position, her plan leaves a lot to be desired.

[Tellurian]

32. Oh, then the info may not have been updated..and is an oversight on the campaign's part

She is releasing her plan in Parts...Part III has been added to Pt I & II pdf here:

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/

[midnight armadillo]

73. I remember hearing her say it

part of a clip on NPR.

[Tellurian]

67. Any idea how long a Universal Health Care Plan will take to get through Congress..

Are you saying, Obama or Edwards will have a Universal Health Care Plan in place within his first month or year in office?

[bunnies]

3. I really wish I could remember under what circumstances I heard her say that.

But yes. It was on the news. Thats what she said.

My reaction was the same.

[patrice]

8. I remember it too. Noted it at the time. I think it was a debate. nt

[bunnies]

15. I think you're right.

It must have been early on in the primary season though... when nobody was really paying attention.

I clearly remember her saying "by the end of my second term" and being like... what the fuck?! :banghead:

[patrice]

52. It struck me because she said something similar to

Universal Health Care, so I was surprised and then I did a double-take on the reference to a 2nd term, but got drawn away from it quickly, because I was following the debate. It's probably in a thread somewhere around here.

[K Gardner]

5. Even Obama said today, "By the end of my first term", in regards to healthcare..

So.. four years that millions of people have to wait for coverage? I don't think anyone but Kucinich is pushing true Universal Healthcare, and Edwards "mandates" are barbaric.

[cuke]

65. Obama lied. His plan isn't universal at all

Not in four years, and not in one thousand years.

And nothing "barbaric" about mandates. We have mandates for car insurance and mandates for SS, Medicare, etc. Do you object to those mandates?

[PresidentObama]

6. Why aren't people looking at the fine print?

She says she'll end the war, but she wants to continue combat missions. Which is continuing the war.

She says she wants to "end" cowboy diplomacy, but then votes for Kyl-Lieberman which was the first step towards war with Iran.

She says universal healthcare for all, but you could wait four or six years.

She says she'll stand for the middle class, but takes $400K from lobbyists.

Sigh.

[K Gardner]

9. While you're looking at fine print, however, you need to try to get Edward's to realize

how BAD it looks for him to include "wage garnishment, collection agencies, etc.", as means to collect money for MANDATED insurance, which will go into the pockets of the insurance companies. That's in his fine print, unless he's changed it in the past two days. Nothing is universal, unless its universal. And Edward's plan isn't.

[gateley]

38. What is with these candidates mandating that people get coverage? Biden's plan

would be to cover children and catastrophic situations immediately, then offer a sliding scale plan for coverage like the coverage he gets in the Senate. If you can't pay for it - you're covered for free.

I listened to Obama's video today that's posted here, and it seems that's a crack there, too. So Hillary, Edwards and Obama are offering plans that people have to participate in? What if they CAN'T afford the premiums?

That's pretty disturbing about the wage garnishment and collection agencies, etc. Making sure the insurance companies get their 'dues' before you can put food on the table?

[K Gardner]

40. Right. People confuse Universal Insurance with Universal Healthcare..

and some of the candidates are deliberately misleading. I finally sat down and read all what, dozen pages of Biden's health plan a while back; and while it's not universal single-payer, it is unbelievably well thought out. I could get behind it as a gradual way in to single payer. However, mandates are cash cows for insurance companies, put people into risk categories and worst of all are the mandated payment plans like wage garnishing. These "top tier" guys need to pay some attention to detail.. the devil is in em :-)

[gateley]

55. Yeah, Biden mentioned once that his plan would let him implement these

initial changes pretty much immediately -- without re-inventing the wheel, as he said. Then work toward a single payer system. We have a DUer from Canada who tells us it took years to get their system up and running. I think Biden, as usual, is being pragmatic and reasonable -- this is what we can do with what we have NOW, and once we get everybody covered, then we can move forward. He has his priorities straight.

[DeanDem10]

11. Sounds like a pretty presumptuous quid pro quo

[Renew Deal]

12. And what if she doesn't make it to a second term? Then never?

:shrug:

[cuke]

64. Don't you understand simple English?

"by the end of her 2nd term" does NOT mean "IN her 2nd term"

It will take time to implement UHC, nevermind getting it passed. Anyone predicting UNIVERSAL coverage in four years is lying.

Like Obama is lying. Obama's plan isn't universal in 1000 years and he's falsely claiming his plan will do it in four

[Life Long Dem]

20. She has been working on it for the past 15 years.

Bill Clinton was running with the health care solution and nothing happened.

[PresidentObama]

21. FACT: Upon further research, MSNBC is correct...she said it.

"You know, President Kennedy said in his inauguration that he wanted to have a man on the moon by the end of the decade. Well, I want to have universal health care coverage by the end of my second term."

That's her exact statement from the AFSCME debate....

http://www.ontheissues.org/Archive/2007_Dem_AFSCME_NV_Hillary_Clinton.htm

[Major Hogwash]

60. Bam! That nail got pounded in quick!

Another nail in her coffin, politically speaking, of course.

According to Parade magazine in last week's paper, she said that she will draw up a plan later next year to help seniors with healthcare.

I don't know what's wrong with the "here and now" because a lot of seniors ain't going to be here at this time next year without some help with their healthcare.

[fenriswolf]

23. what makes you think she is gonna do anything in her first term?

gotta save something for race #2

[BootinUp]

25. Feb 21, 2007. I think its safe to say

she has come out with a full plan since then and that quote is no longer operable.

[PresidentObama]

30. Ok provide me the link where she's said otherwise that she'll pass it before then.

February 2007 wasn't THAT long ago...

And I haven't heard anything to suggest she's changed her own mind in less than a year...

[BootinUp]

34. I assume her plan is intended for her first term. nt

[PresidentObama]

37. Assume vs. what she's said.

I'll go with what she's said.

Her plan is still universal healthcare, even if it was released after she that statement. And she said universal healthcare by the end of her second term.

So why do you assume she means first term, when she's said second term?

[cuke]

63. Don't you understand simple English?

"by the end of her 2nd term" could mean "by 1/22/2007". That would be "by the end of her 2nd term"

It's nothing more than commitment to see everyone covered "by the time" she leaves office

[Renew Deal]

35. I've been doing a little google digging on this.

This has been out there a while. People even made comments to this effect through September. Somehow it appears to have been missed before. If this becomes a major issue in the campaign, it will be because of you.

[sandnsea]

36. I don't think she'll end the war in her first term either

She won't commit to immigration reform in her first 100 days. She won't commit to anything. I dont know why people respect her or her husband, they aren't what they said they were. Every disaster we're facing now, they helped bring in.

[goldcanyonaz]

42. Most Americans don't support the war, BUT...

they support our soldiers and do NOT support a cut and run strategy.

We would look like fouls to run now.

[sandnsea]

51. cut and run is right wing bullshit n/t

[bellasgrams]

43. Anyone can say they can get natl healthcare quickly

but in reality the wheels just don't turn that fast. Don't be hood winked by slick talkers that promise everything is going to be just fine as soon as you vote for them. With the mess this country is in, someone is going to have to figure out how to get us back on track. It's going to take a lot of long meetings with a lot of people to put something together and cope with our national dept and other problems. And I would think the country would have to be more solvent than it is right now. I don't see how we can continue without some sort of tax increase. Hopefully on the wealthy side where they get all the tax breaks.

[Greyhound]

44. I believe if you watch the speech she said universal health insurance.

A significant distinction.

[K Gardner]

50. Just a few "snips" from Hillary's Universally Mandated Insurance Plan

Individuals: will be required to get and keep insurance in a system where insurance is affordable and accessible.

Employers: will help financing the system; large employers will be expected to provide health insurance or contribute to the cost of coverage: small businesses will receive a tax credit to continue or begin to offer coverage.

Provide Tax Relief to Ensure Affordability: Working families will receive a refundable tax credit to help them afford high-quality health coverage.

Limit Premium Payments to a Percentage of Income: The refundable tax credit will be designed to prevent premiums from exceeding a percentage of family income, while maintaining consumer price consciousness in choosing health plans.

Create a New Small Business Tax Credit: To make it easier-not harder-for small businesses to create new jobs with health coverage, a new health care tax credit for small businesses will provide an incentive for job-based coverage.

Strengthen Medicaid and CHIP: The Plan will fix the holes in the safety net to ensure that the most vulnerable populations receive affordable, quality care.

Launch a Retiree Health Legacy Initiative: A new tax credit for qualifying private and public retiree health plans will offset a significant portion of catastrophic expenditures, so long as savings are dedicated to workers and competitiveness.

[Renew Deal]

45. It's bizarre how blog readers have noticed this, but bloggers and the news hasn't.

All I find is blog responses talking about this, but not blog posts or news. Weird!

http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/6/22/113426/652

[BootinUp]

47. Because at the time she said it

it was within the realms of expectations. Those expectations are changing as we go.

[zulchzulu]

48. Your first mistake is to actually believe a Clinton when they say they will do something for you

Hillary's Rerun Campaign wants to rerun the failure in 1993 of trying to pass mandated healthcare insurance.

When she even puts the dreadful thought of a second term in one's head when saying she will provide her so-called "universal" mandated healthcare insurance scam, you can bet it's all an illusion.

She's bought out by the healthcare insurance industry. Follow the money. It leads to a dead end.

[Hieronymus]

53. Yep, sold out.

[K Gardner]

54. To Be Fair, here's a few snips from Edward's Universally Mandated Insurance Plan, too

(very interesting aside: when I went to the website, it appears the text about wage garnishments, collection agencies and other ways he plans to "enforce" his mandate have disappeared, but I hung onto this from Nov 30)

Individual Responsibility. Once insurance is affordable, everyone will be expected to take responsibility for themselves and their families by obtaining health coverage.

Under the Edwards plan, when Americans file their income taxes, they would be required to submit a letter from an insurance provider confirming coverage for themselves and their dependents.

If someone did not submit proof of coverage, the Internal Revenue Service would notify a newly established regional or state-based health-care agency would enroll the individual into the lowest cost health-care plan available in that area....The newly covered individual would not only have access to health benefits but would also be responsible for making monthly payments with the help of a tax credit.

....If a person did not meet his or her monthly financial obligation for a set period of time (perhaps a year, perhaps longer) the Edwards plan would empower the federal government to garnish an individual's wages for purposes of collecting "back premiums with interest and collection costs."

[Tom Rinaldo]

56. Like most things, it depends.

We have waited over two centuries for universal healthcare, so by any standard if someone can really deliver on that promise rather than blow hot air I will be impressed if America has universal health care by the end of the second term of our next President. However I would be real skeptical if the whole plan is heavily back loaded so that virtually nothing happens during her first term but we are expectetd to believe that it all will still happen before she leaves office.

[PresidentObama]

61. Kick

[cuke]

62. Obama doesn't commit to UNIVERSAL health care at all

and we're not going to get UNIVERSAL coverage overnight. It takes time to implement

[earthlover]

66. Hillary does not commit to AFFORDABLE health care at all

She does commit to mandate that people who cannot afford it have to buy it though.

I think Obama's emphasis is correct. Get the prices down first.

Problem with Hillary's is how do you enforce the mandate? We have lots of uninsured drivers in spite of the mandate to get car insurance.

I am disappointed in both of their plans. However, Obama's is the lesser of two evils.

[cuke]

68. Bullshit

Clinton's plan limits premiums and out of pocket costs to a percentage of income. Her plan is the ONLY one that does that.

We also have lots of murderers, even though there is a mandate, with penalties, for those who murder. Opposing mandates is a rightwing position. It's the same reason repukes oppose SS, Medicare, etc

[Renew Deal]

69. None of them commit to true Universal Health care.

Hillary is just doing the bidding of those that bought her.

[earthlover]

71. Hillary has accepted more money from health/insurance/corps than ANY candidate Rep or Dem!

With Hillary, we have all the candidate money can buy....

Why is it that she has more money from the health care insurance pharma etc industry than any other candidate?

Do you think they would support a candidate who would do the right thing?

If so...do you believe in the Easter bunny?

[killbotfactory]

70. It really inspires you, doesn't it?

We'd have to put up with this shit for eight more years.

[earthlover]

72. well, since hillary said that she would get around to health care by the end of her 2nd term....

I guess so!

Realistically, if Hillary is nominated it means Huckabee as president.
So it doesn't really matter Hillary's plans for the second term of a presidency that gets defeated by Huckabee.

Of course denial is fun. you could dream that Hillary could beat Huckleberry.

In your dreams.