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Are Obama's lack of first lady experience and his weak triangulation skills fatal to his campaign?

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Czolgosz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:04 AM
Original message
Are Obama's lack of first lady experience and his weak triangulation skills fatal to his campaign?
I say NO!

Vote Kucinich, vote Edwards, vote Obama, vote Dodd, vote Biden, vote Richardson, but please don't cause us to lose down ballot races in Congress, in state legislatures, and in municipal and statewide races across America by electing an anchor to the top of our ticket which will inspire otherwise uninspired Republicans to come and vote in droves.

No Neo-Liebermans! No Ballot Poison! No Corporate Lap Dogs!
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. Your post is based on lies and distortions. You have not done your homework:
Senator Clinton supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Humane Society of the United States 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Trust for Historic Preservation 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Education Association 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Children's Defense Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Association of University Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Organization for Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 91 percent in 2006.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 100 percent in 2005

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence 100 percent from 1988-2003 (Senate) or 1991-2003 (House).

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Public Health Association 80 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Service Employees International Union 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers 84 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Worker 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees 88 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of Government Employees 83 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Committee for an Effective Congress 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 100 percent in 2005.

According to the National Journal - Composite Liberal Score's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on economic, defense and foreign policy issues than 80 percent of the Senators.

According to the National Journal - Liberal on Social Policy's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on social policy issues than 83 percent of the Senators.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Alliance for Retired Americans 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans 92 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Bread for the World 100 percent in 2003-2004.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Partnership for the Homeless 100 percent in 2003-2004.
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can...

She was promoting universal coverage before it was cool. Furthermore she helped to create the SCHIP program. And most importantly she was dead on in the debate the other week where she said political will was the most important thing needed to push health care reform through and we know without a doubt she has that.

She has fougt unrelentingly for a woman's right to choose as well as women's rights both domestically and abroad

Create a Strategic Energy Fund - Hillary has proposed a Strategic Energy Fund that would inject $50 billion into research, development and deployment of renewable energy, energy efficiency, clean coal technology, ethanol and other homegrown biofuels. Hillary's proposal would give oil companies a choice: invest in renewable energy or pay into the fund. Hillary's proposal would also eliminate oil company tax breaks and make sure that oil companies pay their fair share for drilling on public lands. Instead of sending billions of dollars to the Middle East for their oil, Hillary's proposal will create a new clean energy industry in America and create tens of thousands of jobs here.

Champion a Market-Based "Cap and Trade" Approach - Hillary supports a market-based, cap and trade approach to reducing carbon emissions and fight global warming. This approach was used successfully to limit sulfur dioxide and reduce levels of acid rain in the 1990s. By capping the amount of emissions in the environment and allowing corporations to buy and sell permits, this approach offers corporations a flexible, cost-efficient method to do their share to reduce emissions and combat global warming. The program will reduce emissions, drive the development of clean technologies, and create a market for projects that store carbon dioxide.

20% Renewable Electricity Standard by 2020 - Hillary believes we need to shift our reliance on high carbon electricity sources to low-carbon electricity sources by investing in renewable energy sources, such as solar and wind. As President, she'll work to require power companies to obtain 20 percent of their energy from renewable sources by 2020.

Make Federal Buildings Carbon Neutral - Hillary believes that the federal government should lead the way in reducing carbon emissions from buildings. Buildings account for 40 percent of U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, and the federal government owns or leases more than 500,000. Hillary would require all federal buildings to steadily increase the use of green design principles, energy efficient technologies, and to generate energy on-site from solar and other renewable sources. By 2030, all new federal buildings and major renovations would be carbon neutral, helping to fight global warming and cutting the $5.6 billion that the federal government spends each year on heating, cooling and lighting.

Protecting Against Exposure to Toxic Chemicals - Hillary wants to make the products we use safer, especially for children. There are tens of thousands of chemicals used in the U.S. and hundreds of new chemicals introduced each year, but little health testing is conducted for many of them. Hillary would require chemical companies to prove that new chemicals are safe before they are put on the market, and would set more stringent exposure standards for kids. She would also create a "priority list" of existing chemicals and require testing to make sure they are safe. To improve our understanding of the links between chemicals and diseases like cancer, Hillary would create an "environmental health tracking network" that ties together information about pollution and chronic diseases.

Hillary's Record

In the White House, Hillary led efforts to make adoption easier, to expand early learning and child care, to increase funding for breast cancer research, and to help veterans suffering from Gulf War syndrome who had too often been ignored in the past. She helped launch a national campaign to prevent teen pregnancy and helped create the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997, which moved children from foster care to adoption more quickly and the number of children who have moved out of foster care into adoption has increased dramatically.

She was instrumental in designing and championing the State Children's Health Insurance Program, which has provided millions of children with health insurance. She battled the big drug companies to force them to test their drugs for children and to make sure all kids get the immunizations they need through the Vaccines for Children Program. Immunization rates dramatically improved after the program launched.

Hillary has been a leading member of the Environment and Public Works Committee since she was elected to the Senate. Today, she chairs the Superfund and Environmental Health Subcommittee and in that capacity has promoted legislation to evaluate and protect against the impact of environmental pollutants on people's health and clean up toxic waste.

Global warming and Clean Air
Spoken out forcefully about the need to tackle global warming in hearings, speeches, rallies and on the Senate floor and co-sponsored "cap and trade" legislation.
Worked to reduce air pollution that causes asthma and other respiratory diseases by writing and helping to pass new laws to clean up exhaust from school buses, and other diesel-powered equipment.
Supported legislation to reduce pollution from power plants, including harmful emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, mercury, and carbon dioxide - emissions that contribute to poor air quality, smog, acid rain, global warming, and mercury contamination of fish.
Aggressively fought the Bush Administration's ill-advised attempts to weaken clean air laws.

Improving Water Quality and Protecting Drinking Water
Helped to overturn the Bush Administration's attempt to allow more arsenic in drinking water.
Cosponsored legislation to protect lakes, rivers and coastal waters by fighting the spread of destructive invasive species, such as the zebra mussel.
Helped ot pass new clean water laws, including measures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

Protecting Public Lands
Fought oil company efforts to pen the Artic Wildlife Refuge in Alask and Pacific and Atlantic coastal waters to drilling.
Cosponsored the Roadless Area Conservation Act, which prohibits road construction and logging in unspoiled, roadless areas of the National Forest System, and voted for additional funding and manpower to combat forest fires in the west.

Reducing Dangerous Chemicals and Cleaning Up Hazardous Waste
Supported legislation to restore the "polluter pays" principle by reinstating a chemical company fee to fund cleanups of highly contaminated "Superfund" waste sites.
Cosponsored the "kids-Safe Chemical Act," which requires chemical companies to provide health and safety before putting new chemicals in consumer products.
Proposed legislation to create an environmental health tracking network to enable us to better understand the impact of environmental hazards on human health and well-being.

Tackling the Toxic Legacy of 9/11
Pushed for health care benefits for first responders, residents and others whose health has been impacted from breathing the toxic dust and smoke in New York City after 9/11.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/8/20/134810/677

Hillary Clinton co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund, in 1977. In late 1977, President Jimmy Carter (for whom she had done 1976 campaign coordination work in Indiana) appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation, and she served in that capacity from 1978 through the end of 1981. For much of that time she served as the chair of that board, the first woman to do so. During her time as chair, funding for the Corporation was expanded from $90 million to $300 million, and she successfully battled against President Ronald Reagan's initial attempts to reduce the funding and change the nature of the organization.

Following the November 1978 election of her husband as Governor of Arkansas, Clinton became First Lady of Arkansas in January 1979, her title for a total of twelve years. Bill appointed her chair of the Rural Health Advisory Committee the same year, where she successfully obtained federal funds to expand medical facilities in Arkansas' poorest areas without affecting doctors' fees.

Hillary Clinton chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee from 1982 to 1992, where she sought to bring about reform in the state's court-sanctioned public education system. One of the most important initiatives of the entire Clinton governorship, she fought a prolonged but ultimately successful battle against the Arkansas Education Association to put mandatory teacher testing as well as state standards for curriculum and classroom size in place. She introduced Arkansas' Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth in 1985, a program that helps parents work with their children in preschool preparedness and literacy.

And a bit of stuff from the White House years:

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage. She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare. She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.

The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome. Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice. In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage.<124> She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare.<125> She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.<43> The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome.<43> Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice.<43> In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.<43> As First Lady, Clinton hosted numerous White House Conferences, including ones on Child Care (1997),<126> Early Childhood Development and Learning (1997),<127> and Children and Adolescents (2000),<128> and the first-ever White House Conferences on Teenagers (2000)<129> and Philanthropy (1999).<130>

Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

"...Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries..."

More:
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/israe...
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/darfu...


The following are polls from progressive groups, rating Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on how often they vote for progressive issues. For each group, http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php

Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (progressivepunch)
Overall Progressive Score: 92% 90%
Aid to Less Advantaged People at Home and Abroad: 98% 97%
Corporate Subsidies 100% N/A
Education, Humanities and the Arts 88% 100%
Environment 92% 100%
Fair Taxation 97% 100%
Family Planning 88% 80%
Government Checks on Corporate Power 95% 97%
Healthcare 98% 94%
Housing 100% 100%
Human Rights & Civil Liberties 82% 77%
Justice for All: Civil and Criminal 94% 91%
Labor Rights 91% 91%
Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful 94% 90%
War and Peace 80% 86%
easures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I wish we could rec responses.
Because your response wrecks the OP.
:applause:
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Please stop posting facts.
Only the Joshua of the 21st Century can help us get to the Promised Lands.

He will spread his long fingers over all of us and we will be blessed with his messianic goodness.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
4. lol!
learn to write a persuasive argument. There's very little difference between Clinton, Edwards and Obama. They're much the same when it comes to Iraq, Iran and domestic policy.

Vote for whomever you support.

It's the height of arrogance to tell others not to vote for their choice in the primaries.

Fuck that.

And double fuck boring sloganeering.
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youthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. I wish I could nominate a post Cali...
"And double fuck boring sloganeering."

I double your double fuck.

Take a bow my dear, you deseerve a standing ovation for that line...that was priceless.
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
5. Actually I think his triangulation skills are pretty good.
And that's one of the biggest problems I have with him. He knew that in South Carolina, homophobia would play better than gay rights, so he went ahead with the concert and even personally complimented the emceeing bigot at the event.

He knows that atheists and other non-believers are a small and very disorganized portion of the population, and by vast majorities vote Democratic anyway, so he plays up the religious stuff to hook in the wingnuts.

BTW - his recent appearance on the 700 Club was touted by his fans as "reaching out" to the 700 Club voters. I find it ironic that you then complain about other candidates appealing to "uninspired Republicans."
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I was gonna say triangualting beats acting like a republican the way Obama has done
Obama has also criticized mandates (even though his plan has a mandates) because they FORCE people to buy insurance.

He claims that SS is in crisis

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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. good thing he did considering the email circulated by the HRC campaign
Edited on Thu Dec-06-07 09:20 AM by AtomicKitten
Obama has to work twice as hard to overcome the sh*t coming from the HRC campaign about him being a Muslim.

Hillary has signed onto two GOP war schemes and has done nothing except exhibit a whole lot of double-talk and flat-out BS about it. That is POLICY as opposed to one evening linked to Obama that you disapprove of.

Your analysis was well thought out by half.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. And your analysis was misplaced,
because I don't support HRC either.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. My comment mentioned nothing about whom you support.
So your analysis of my comment is moot.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Say what?
Your whole comment was a comparison to HRC to defend Obama. I have some of the same issues with HRC that you do.

Can't blame you - from all the posts I've read by Obama supporters, the knee-jerk reaction is to bash HRC. You simply couldn't help yourself. Maybe next time you can defend his actions instead of deflecting.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. You never came into the equation in my response.
And if all you can think to do now is lob a personal attack, you've officially got nothing.

My point exactly.
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. And you never defended Obama
You only attack because there is no defense of Obama's lies and repubublican talking points and tactics
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. lying sucks.
Edited on Thu Dec-06-07 10:18 AM by cali
putting a spin on an event sucks. One volunteer for the Clinton campaign forwarded a hateful piece of email. She was asked to leave the campaign and thoroughly condemned by the Clinton team. You're take on it is utter bullshit. You're not on much firmer ground with claim #2. Clinton did indeed vote for the IWR and K/L. One was indeed signing onto war, and three other contenders did the same. The other vote was not a vote for war. It was a sense of the senate resolution with no force of law. I don't like her vote. I think the resolution sends the wrong message, but honesty about it should prevail.

Your "analysis" is largely dissembling.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. The email came from her camp
Edited on Thu Dec-06-07 09:38 AM by AtomicKitten
That is no lie ... but thanks for dissembling to cover her ass. The sad part is that you are doing it to cover by rationalization her YES votes for war and more war, which makes you an accomplice. Brava!
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. Where did the racist Punjab memo come from? Obama's camp
That is no lie...but thanks for dissembling to cover his ass. The sad part is that you are doing it to cover by rationalization his racism, homphobia, and votes for war and more war. Brava
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #14
24.  what typical partisan swill. how pathetic.
Edited on Thu Dec-06-07 09:57 AM by cali
I've said that to Clinton supporters and I haven't a hesitation to saying it to any dishonest partisan. And how low can you possibly stoop? You're now nose deep in raw political sewage. I marched in DC three times against the war. I've held vigil against it in my small town on numerous occasions. I've organized against it with the state branch of AFSC. I'have NEVER justified Clinton's vote for the IWR or any of the others' votes for it. I've said repeatedly I won't vote for them in the primary because of it. I also said I don't think voting for K/L is acceptable.

You ably demonstrate yourself to be a ly*** piece of s*** to accuse me of being an accomplice to this terrible war. Congratulations for stooping to such a low. That does get my dander up. Go do something to yourself that some people claim is impossible .
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Please continue to argue that a vote for more war is better than not voting.
Edited on Thu Dec-06-07 10:06 AM by AtomicKitten
I love that story.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. lol, pumpkin
I've NEVER argued that her vote for the K/L is better than Obama's not voting. In fact, munchkin, I've never even criticized Obama for not voting. Do I think he'd have a stronger argument if he had voted no? Yes, but I don't see his not voting as big deal.

Anymore stinking shit, you want to fling, sweetcheeks? Have at it. I'll fling it right back in your face where it belongs, poopsie.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. you are all over the place
Edited on Thu Dec-06-07 10:11 AM by AtomicKitten
pick a position and you might be taken seriously ...

On edit: Lobbing personal attacks is not debate, it's just boorish. Your nastiness is renown and has caused others to leave DU; I'm not impressed.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. oh please. you accused me of being an accomplice to the war.
you think I'm going to stand for that? No. Not for a moment. And I've picked a position, and made it clear. If you payed any attention, you'd know that. I always find it pathetic when people have to speak for unknown others because their own position is so weak. Interesting to discover I'm so powerful that I've caused others to leave DU; I don't buy it. And I could care less whether you're impressed.

Lying is not debate either. And accusing someone of being an accomplice to the war is a fucking personal attack, cookie. As I said, fling it at me, you get it back.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. blah, blah, blah
You've got nothing.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. well
whatever I have isn't dishonest, and it sure exposes your crap accusations. I'm not some crazed partisan. Same cannot be said for you. You exemplify what's wrong with extremist partisanship every bit as much as some of the Clinton supporters you so detest. You are them, kittykat.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. I'm standing firm on the truth.
The truth that you routinely stretch and stand on both sides of showcasing a nasty attitude but no actual convictions.

Again, I'm not impressed.

Have a great day! :hi:
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. it's a huge error in judgement to mistake
standing on the quicksand of lies for standing on the truth. That's a problem for you, as you sink further into the morass of dishonesty you've created. Don't forget a snorkel for when you're completely buried in your own muck.

:hi:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. this coming from a defender of HRC's bad judgment
Edited on Thu Dec-06-07 10:34 AM by AtomicKitten
Your own lapse in judgment echoes the bad judgment of the candidate you defend.

Enough said.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. pulling more stuff out of your dark regions, kittywitty?
I don't support Clinton's bad judgment. And you won't be able to find a post where I do, my little fablemaker. I defend Obama plenty and you know it. I also say many good things about him. Something else you know, kittums.

Now I've got to go. Sorry I can't keep doing this delightful repartee with you, but really, you can't keep up and it's becoming tedious.

bye bye

:hi:
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. LOL
A post with nothing accusing another of having nothing
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. I do not know about that, but
his first lady experience is indeed SORELY missing.
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Stop Cornyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #15
41. lol
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
10. ...
:thumbsup:

:rofl:

and another rec.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
16. Okay, I'm losing it. I can't figure out why this post is on the Greatest Page.
In fact, I can't figure out what this post is saying. Yikes! I'm out of things.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
17. Your screen name is the last name of the guy that shot McKinley
What the fuck is that all about? Since when is it OK to idolize assassins? Why do you have that name?
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
18. You make a solid argument, sir.
K&R! :)
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
21. Let him be first lady for at least 4 years, then I'll give him another look
A couple years in the senate means he barely got out of first grade.:boring:
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
23. You sound just like a desperate Republican trying to talk someone out of their strongest candidate
What a pantload.
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Tactical Progressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
25. No, Obama's lack of any experience and his weak honor & integrity skills
are what dooms his candidacy. He doesn't even really deserve to be on the stage with the rest of them except as something akin to a possible future prototype, like a show car at a car show. It's not real, even if it's pretty to look at and to wonder what it would be like if it were made into a real candidate.

All Obama has at this time is empty sloganeering, pandering - the basest form of what you are calling triangulating, and most troubling and disillusioning, smears against fellow Democrats and the Democratic party.

Obama is alot of empty talk, which any but the true believers are going to see through more and more easily the longer he's out there saying little and meaning even less. As that becomes more apparent to everyone, except the hardcore adulator youth crowd, it will erode him not just for now, but for any possible future in the Democratic party he thinks he's going to get. He won't be on this year's ticket. It would weaken every single Democratic candidate in the field, being behind someone of such little experience and ability.

Obama should be using this election to gain name recognition and credibility. Unfortunately for him, his arrogance and easy inclination to take the low road in all matters is rapidly eroding his credibility for a future in the Democratic party. Wouldn't it be something if the coming-out party he's trying to turn into an actual candidacy with low-road antics, actually costs him his whole future in politics?

He's headed strongly in that direction now.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #25
38. Well said.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go read "Reconciling Faith and Politics" at barackobama.com. :puke:
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. I agree. Well said TP!
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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #25
42. I think you meant to say:
"Obama should just be gaining name recognition and credibility, not winning"

Meet the next President of the United States. :-)
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Stop Cornyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
37. "No Neo-Liebermans!" LOL!
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Tejanocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-06-07 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
39. Compare Hillary's national numbers to her Iowa and New Hampshire numbers; voters like her less the
more familiar they are with her.
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