Wheres the Kerry praise?

[Ksec]

We need to get the praise for Kerry going. All I hear is the negatives from repukes and nothing good about Kerry. The repukes are gonna crucify him until we make it unpatriotic to do so. Lets start getting outraged when some draft dodging chickenhawk speaks poorly of a war hero. Until we start calling them on this crap about him protesting theyre gonna run it into the ground. Maybe we need to start praising him and his voting record or all the people are going to hear are negatives.

[poskonig]

1. Amen!

People act ashamed that Kerry called out Reagan on Iran-Contra, eliminates waste in the pentagon, opposes the death penalty, supports gun control, CAFE standards, opposes logging in our national forests, and so forth.

[AntiCoup2K4]

78. Spare me the tired old spin

Iran Contra? Please... Reagan, Poppy, Ollie, etc all walked away from their crimes. Most of them are in Junior's fraudministration, even the convicted criminals!

Forget the MYTH that Kerry will take on the Bush Criminal Empire, because with all his supposed knowledge of them, he hasn't done shit about it yet. Or there never would have been a Junior Fraudministration to begin with. In the end, Bonesmen will protect each other.

In any event, what's important now is not ancient history. It's Kerry's record since the 2000 Florida coup. And that record is simply fucking pathetic.

[King of New Orleans]

2. people have been

pounding that little wussy Chickenhawk Saxby Chambliss all day.

[MrSlayer]

3. Kerry is the Lord of All!!!

It is right to give him thanks and praise.

[Nashyra]

4. I signed up for Kerry Meetup

going to go on the 26th in Reno.

[mstrsplinter326]

11. It's hard to do it sometimes

The subject of praising Kerry, who voted for the war in Iraq, is hard to stomach. He's far right of middle, and will only serve to slow down and put a positive spin on the raping of the poor. He's Clinton with a war record. All the while, I will probably vote for him simply because I've promised to vote for anyone who will beat Bush. It's a vomit-inducing quandary. Where's the equality in politics? How about that question? Where's the praise for Dennis K.?
In short, Kerry deserves praise for not being as bad as Bush, but is that really that great of a quality? I'm not as bad as Bush, Vote for me.

[poskonig]

16. Ridiculous. Kerry is not Bushlite.

Kerry supports a host of liberal issues, including gun control, opposition to the death penalty, homosexual marriage, cutting of pentagon waste, and so on. And all of the standard issues -- abortion, health care access, tax fairness, affirmative action -- Kerry is clearly left of center.

But Kerry doesn't act like an activist, and people get pissy. Acting the part is essential to winning elections, so be glad Kerry is good at it.

[RafterMan]

27. Actually,

Kerry said he opposes gay marriage, but if you meant civil unions, fair enough.

And yes, Kerry is a liberal.

[mstrsplinter326]

28. Rhetoric doesn't equal action

I hope you're right. We'll see what changes are actually made in his term. Keep in mind that we lost ground in many areas under Clinton who had leftist rhetoric. I know the congress was republican for a good while, but many of the bills were happily passed through the White House.

[diamond14]

33. "we lost ground in many areas under Clinton"? whew...Clenis envy

going on again...it smells around here...

America gained 23 MILLION New jobs under Clinton...

America's stock market was at 11,700 (DOW Jones) when the shrub took over...and today, it's sputtering around at 10,500 THREE YEARS LATER....everyone has LOST money on their investments under the shrub, except the thieves at enron, halliburton and a lot of prescription drug companies...


these pictorials compare the TWO bushies to CLINTON, one of our greatest Presidents ever...





http://www.bartcop.com

[tritsofme]

46. 11,700 was all time high,

when * took office, the Dow was sputtering around the same trading range its at right now.

[diamond14]

50. if true, why not state "nobody made any $$ on their investments in the

entire THREE years that the bush* and his minions have been running the country....retired seniors are HURTING badly...

why not just say that???

I just don't understand the purpose of spewing out nasty crap against Clinton....when hedid an LOT of good for OUR country...

(of course, I disagree with your dow assessment, but it's late and your rhetoric smells bad...)

[tritsofme]

53. Simply nothing to disagree about, its a simple fact.

There's no rhetoric in the post to disagree with.

The Dow was around 10580 on *nauguration day.

You would have had to been a sucker being in the market last year and not making any money.

No one says that everything is good in the economy now, or it is anywhere near where things were in the 90's. And your other two charts spell that out very nicely.

But we don't have to make things up about the stock markets to attack shrub's record of fiscal irresponsibility.

[mstrsplinter326]

55. Clinton and you

Bill Clinton did the following.

gave Federal funding to faith-based org.s
expanded the # of crimes that can exact the sentence of death
outlawed gay marriage
removed 10 million (out of 14 million) off of welfare
supported the lowering of the capital gains tax
rejected a rep. gov.'s (George Ryan, Ill.) request to suspend the death penalty
supported the three strikes law
over saw an increase in the # of people w/o health care
signed orders to ban illegal imm. from receiving health care
supported a ban on late term abortions
signed an order to prohibit US fund from going to countries who offer abortion as a form of BC
Did not sign the Land Mine Ban (other non signers included Iraq, NK)
started the process of drilling for oil in national parks

Not every politician is perfect but don't praise him as a hero. He was better than either bushes, but again and again I repeat BETTER DOES NOT EQUAL GOOD.

For the record, most economists (and political scientists, for that matter) agree that Clinton was handed some of the greatest circumstances in which a president could reign. Some also blame his hands-off approach to the insane spiral of growth as part of the current problem. (I don't think it was really a controllable situation, but some economists do.)

[diamond14]

56. LOL....hahahahahahaha....your Clenis envy is hysterical...

are you sure you're in the right place?

"Some also blame Clinton's hands-off approach to the insane spiral of growth as part of the current problem."
...WOW...a classic Clenis envy.....


LOL...that's just TOO MUCH....I'm dreaming of 'insane spirals of growth'.....

so now, Clinton caused it all....Clinton caused poor little bush*'s economic collapse....LOL....too histerical...please stop making me laugh so hard...........

hahahahahahahahhaaha
hhahahahahhahahah

[mstrsplinter326]

58. I missed something

To start with, washing clean Clinton's hands as if he were a saint is utterly wrong. To say that he had no part in what happened after him defies logic. His effect is really constrained to his term in office??? Will the Patriot Act be confined to Bush's term in office? That's asinine logic.

Second, Trying to make fun of some one based on the idea of "Clenis envy" is juvenile. I should know I am certainly younger than you.

Third, I followed the quote you so graciously bolded by saying I didn't agree with that statement. Get your facts straight before quoting someone.

Fourth, where's the argument? What point did you make? What did you use to support that point? Does 'lol' automatically trounce fact and reason? Does 'hahahaha' beat out intuition in the minds of the posters here on the DU message board?

I hate to say it, but the post makes you seem about 12 years old.

[diamond14]

61. LOL....."washing clean Clinton's hands....defies logic"? !

it's great...it's a Clenis envy with a real biblical tone to it....
the allusion to Pontius Pilate is really really over the top....

ROTF...please....it hurts...LOL....

BTW, my use of 'Clenis envy' is NOT considered juvenile in this forum.....it is legitimate Democratic Underground terminology, well respected here on DU....I am certain that many others will agree with me that the use of 'Clenis envy' is very serious language...and it's not used to make fun of 'you', rather it's a reference to 'your words'...we do not speak about YOU as a person, only about your funny posts...and do enjoy laughing a little when we see something really hysterical....

[mstrsplinter326]

65. again and again

Where's the arguement? What facts are used to substaniate whatever point you are trying to make? How does laughing at someone not constitute making fun. Call it what you want, dress it up with phrases like good termanology, but that's just BS. The term clenis envy is undoubtedly in some way related to the feeling that Clinton somehow has more sexual prowless, and therefor is envy him. I understand it also has a double meaning, of course, here on this forum because of the forum's political nature. I understand that, I am not stupid.

Moreover, you have yet to define the term, and therefore there can no longer be political discussion. I don't know if we somehow forgot that we're in the primary 2004 forum. Sorry to make this arguement circular, but I am back to the point that you've made no arguement, and substaniated what ever arguement you think you're making with nothing. I care not if you attack me (or my ideas...), simply because there's not politcal arguement.

[diamond14]

68. "dress it up with phrases like good termanology"?....that sounds

a lot like "get a brain, moran"

:crazy:

[mstrsplinter326]

69. round and round we go

The personal attacks keep on flowing, and the political banter had disappeared. Congratulations you finally removed politics entirely from our debate. I'm the idiot for improper grammar? Hmm... I didn't know the DU had standard to which it held it's members on grammar and spelling. Can you review my other posts to make sure that they have proper capitalization and punctuation?

This has gotten out of hand. Unless there is some political matter to be discussed, it ceases now.

[diamond14]

70. there's a 'CHECK SPELLING button' at the bottom of your messages

which was placed there for your convenience...don't hesitate to use it....

it's NOT an insult to your intelligence to take advantage of the CHECK SPELLING button....it's just common sense...and it is in keeping with the HIGH standards here at DU, standards which probably don't exist on other boards that YOU normally frequent...

:crazy:

[mstrsplinter326]

72. Stop

[diamond14]

76. nobody here pays any attention to such commands...

it's just impossible to PUSH PEOPLE AROUND here on DU with little
"orders" and "commands"....


:nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[mstrsplinter326]

84. that's not what its about

I am not trying to command you. I was reiterating that this conversation is over - as it has no semblance of political discussion. You claim that discussion is not personalized here, yet you have personalized it. Please return to the topic at hand, by presenting your opinion then backing it up with fact, and stop trying bad-mouth me. Or just cease - it would be the mature thing to do, if you don't have a Election 2004 comment to make.

[diamond14]

85. "just cease - it would be the mature thing to do" ? (pic)

"I'm not trying to command you" ?

[mstrsplinter326]

86. hmm...

Suggestions don't equate to commands. I don't equate to Bush. This has gotten even more childish, and much less rational.

I'll be the bigger person here, this will be my last post on the subject. Even though there will undoubtedly be many misrepresentations of what I've said, followed by some immature, non-political commentary. Keep up the good work. I hope I don't run into you somewhere on this board where I expect a serious debate.
Go ahead post away. Take clips from this post and misconstrue them. You won't hear from me on the subject again.

[Zhade]

83. You forgot NAFTA, continuing Iraq sanctions while bombing, and Bosnia.

NT!

[diamond14]

29. Kerry is a "vomit-inducing quandary" & "raping the poor"?....whew

smells terrible, just an awful thing to say...
another bunch of this weeks rovian talking points....goes with the failure to INSPIRE PASSION....

[mstrsplinter326]

39. I don't get it.

Clenis envy? I don't get it. Am I jealous of Monica... are you serious, she's ugly.
But it doesn't matter.
Common political science knowledge states that the current direction of the democrats of is right of center. We are no longer the Champions of the working class. Money owns both major parties. Work to change that, rather than accepting Kerry and Clinton as great. Michael Moore has compiled a list of the transgressions against you and me by Clinton in Stupid White Men. You should read it.

[buckeye1]

57. I like DK.

I like him and I lived in Cleveland when he was mayor. He is however candidate lite because his message does not resonate with with enough voters to win. If Bush wins it will be the last election. that's the way it is.

[mstrsplinter326]

59. is resonation a good enough reason...

to sacrifce and compromise your beliefs. it wouldn't be good enough for me.

[DFLer4edu]

5. That would be great,

except for it wouldn't. The primary isn't over so we are not all going to act as armor for Kerry. And if he gets the nomination, defending him is NOT what we need to do. Defend him and we'll lose, because his voting record is less than pretty. Attacking Bush, now there you've got something. The rest of us (those who don't support Kerry for the nomination) will start defending Kerry once he is the nominee, but in the meantime, attack Bush. And after we have a nominee, defend the nominee, but first and foremost attack Bush.

[Ksec]

10. I understand that.

I was a Clark man . Now Im a Kerry dude. I really dont hear anything good about Kerry anywhere though. Its always something negative. We need to crank up the praise a bit. (when he gets the nod I know)

[DFLer4edu]

18. We will

but I have to say that I have a general disliking of the man and his opinion on various issues. That isn't to say that I will not back him 100% if he gets the nomination(he is better than Edwards), but it is to say why did we have to get him???? Kerry, Lieberman, and Edwards are my least favorite. However, once we've got one guy, we'll pick up his positive things and rally behind them. But the main focus should be on destroying Bush's credibility(amazingly it is still holding together) and on calling Bush. We can't win an argument on whether Kerry is the right man for the job, we can win the argument that Bush is not the right man for the job.

[diamond14]

42. "I have a general disliking of the man and his opinion" ?... whew...

and rhetoric at how well bush* credibility is holding together....subtle...but it doesn't play well here....


BTW...despite rovian talking points...

KERRY is the right man for the Presidency....

http://www.JohnKerry.com

[DFLer4edu]

75. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

and lets laugh some more hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Kerry is not the the right person for the presidency. While swallowing him as the GE democrat, I'll have to chock on a fair number of his policies, votes, and in general, him. He's is by no means what is right for the presidency. He is what makes people thing that there is no difference between the two parties. He is what makes people think that it doesn't matter who they vote for because, nothing in their lives is going to change. Now, I disagree, but that is what he projects. Make no mistake, there are many people, who I would much rather see as president. If he becomes the general election democrat, he will not be "the right man for the job" he will by default be the only man for the job because as the GE Dem he will be the only one with a shot in hell at beating Bush.

[diamond14]

79. LOL......"While swallowing him... I'll have to chock" ?

...."that is what he projects"


all that swallowing, choking, and projecting is NO DOUBT another Clenis envy...

so loaded, that I am in awe....

"Make no mistake, there are many people, who I would much rather see as president.".....bush*?

[feistydem]

6. I've seen and read more praise in the press than I have seen here on DU

for Senator Kerry.

It's not only the republicans tearing him down, disgruntled supporters of other Dem candidates are doing their part too.

Even the NY Times is reporting that there are Republican voters so unhappy with Bush (despite having voted for him before) that they will vote for any Democrat before they vote for "W" again (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/22/politics/campaign/22VOTE.html).

Hard for me to believe there are Democrats who actually think Bush would be better than Senator Kerry. But I guess the Kool Aid is tasty.

[wtf]

7. ..

Even though I'm an Edwards supporter, I don't dislike Kerry at all, and would fully support him in the ge, at the same time though, I think the reason why there isn't a lot of passion for Kerry, even among some of his own supporters, is because he doesn't INSPIRE it.

[feistydem]

14. I respectfully disagree

I have heard Senator Kerry speak and I have met members of his family and his campaign staff and they/he inspires the hell out of me.

But then... I don't need whoopin' and hollering to get me enthusiastic for a candidate.

I also met Howard Dean early on in his campaign, and I was terribly disappointed. He struck me as a phony.

Nevertheless, I too like John Edwards. I would just like him to have a little more political experience before he goes toe to toe with Karl Rove, er, I mean George W. Bush.

If we weren't up against people as sinister as "W" and President Cheney, I would be more flexible about my candidate of choice. This is not the year for that.

[diamond14]

20. "don't dislike Kerry" = LIKE KERRY.....you could just say it...

otherwise, it sounds like an underhanded kick-in-the-teeth...

this idea about a President INSPIRING PASSION is really right off of reTHUGlican spewing rovian spinners....it seems to be on this weeks 'list' of reTHUGlican talking points about Kerry...really an attack IMO....


since when did reTHUGlicans ever refer to shrub INSPIRING PASSION????

and when did that become some kind of litmus test for a President?...

[feistydem]

34. Well, it's not exactly an affirmation, that's for sure...

I'm starting to burn out on this whole "explain your support for Kerry" thing going on here on DU.

People want to vote for Edwards, Kucinich, Dean or even Nader --fine. I think it's a mistake, but it's their votes. I haven't been going around bashing those people or their candidates. And other than Dean, I actually like the Kerry opponents. I would even be supporting Dean right now if he were the frontrunner because I want Bush out more than I want to be "right" about the Dem nominee.

But I am really tired of supporters of other candidates bashing Kerry like he's the antichrist. It's ridiculous and counterproductive.

[diamond14]

26. "Kerry doesn't INSPIRE PASSION"... reTHUGlican talking point

PASSION...it's all over the place here...

pushing the idea that a President must INSPIRE PASSION...personnally, I would prefer that he didn't....

but this PASSION attack term is now so prevalent, that some people seem to think that lack of INSPIRATIONAL PASSION involves some kind of character deficiency....

[MercutioATC]

8. Ummm, he's not the nominee yet....

How about kudos for Edwards, Sharpton and Kucinich?

...or Clark and Dean who haven't released their delegates, so they're still in it, in theory.

I'll pass on the Kerry praise, thanks.

[diamond14]

9. reTHUGs know that they can win by getting us to fight amoungst

ourselves....

you are absolutely right...it's very important at this time to get everyone unified behind KERRY so we can beat bush*

IMO, lots of the snotty criticism and railing against Kerry's war record is coming into DU from outside reTHUGlicans, laughing as they watch us fight...

I was horrified today when several posters started claiming that Kerry only had 4 months service and that he didn't even deserve purple hearts because he wasn't even scratched....

I finally had to take time and post Kerry's entire TWO tours of duty with dates, and medals and citations and why he won them and how he was injured...his arm that was shot still bothers him today...

bronze star with V-for valor, silver star, and THREE purple hearts and TWO tours of duty doesn't seem to be enough for the whole chickhawk bush* cabal...and I note that bush* has not yet posted his dates of service and full military record, as Kerry has done on his campaign web page...bush* just leaves that part blank on his web page...

and it would have been so simple for any of those nasty posters, who degraded Kerry's military service to just read about it here
(and it comes with references and everything)

http://www.JohnKerry.com


like you, I am very sick of people getting on DU and disrespecting the Military service of both John Kerry AND Max Cleland just to spread lies and create dissent....let's go after these reTHUGlicans and keep them from spreading lies on DU about any of OUR Veterans...it's the least WE THE PEOPLE can do for OUR Veterans...

link to every DATE in John Kerry's service record, where he was, what his did, how he won his medals....it is so HONORABLE, you will cry to read it....and realize how bad others are to disrespect such a performance in the military...John Kerry is the REAL DEAL...and an HONORABLE soldier....

http://www.johnkerry.com/communities/veterans/service.html

[revcarol]

12. WEEEEEL, I'll tell ya...

Kerry supporters these past few days have acted so incredibly arrogant and thuggish toward everyone else's supporters that their candidate is not too popular right now.

And seeing that only 25% of the delegates have been chosen and their are three other candidates in the race...here goes...

"KERRY HAS A GOOD ENVIRONMENTAL RECORD"

That's called "damning with faint praise!!"

[diamond14]

13. so if you cannot disrespect a WAR HERO, then attack his supporters

I guess if we honor OUR Veterans, especially a WAR HERO like Kerry...then we are now "arrogant and thuggish"....

didn't take long for that to appear....

[feistydem]

22. The Liberal Oasis blog has also been taken over by Republicans

who don't have to pose as Dems to post and they pretty much write whatever nasty rhetoric they want. When the majority of liberal bloggers (myself included) stopped posting and left the site, the trolls were whining how dull it became not having us to heckle.

Most of them said DU was their next stop and they were joking about what names they would create to post here, etc.

I came to DU thinking we were all pretty much on the same side with the same goal--getting Bush out. But I am learning that DU is no liberal oasis either. Looks like an anybody-but-Kerry feeding frenzy to me.

Odd how Kerry supporters are the ones being called "arrogant." Most of the nasty posts I've read come from supporters of 2 or 3 other candidates.

[revcarol]

30. YOU DON'T KNOW ME, THAT'S FOR SURE.

I worked 8 hours per day for 45 days contacting veterans at the VA clinic here trying to get rid of Pete Domenici, The Senator who trashed the VA a couple of years ago with all his budget cuts.The "Vets for Tristani" organization that I started on DU and elsewhere gave over $60,000 for her candidacy and to defeat Domenici.

My late husband was a veteran of WWII and Korea. He is buried at Ft. Bliss National Cemetery. I promised him before he died that I would do everything I could for vets, since medicine from the VA was the only thing that kept him alive, and we could no longer afford to buy it on the outside.I have kept my promise, with LTTE's, alerts on bills concerning vets, contacts with veterans' groups and auxilaries, lobbying Senators and Congresspeople, lobbying on the state level for our local nursing home which gives discounts to vets or free care if they can't afford it, but that has to be paid for by the state....Like I say, You don't know me.

I have also worked for active duty personnel: to get the raises promised by Bush for E-1's and E-2's, to get better TriCare, to get better family support services for the families of Guard members called to AD for Afghanistan and Iraq...Like I say, you don't know me.

If you think I would diss Kerry because he's a vet, you don't know me.

But, I was talking about his supporters here on DU who have been incredibly rude recently.

I also don't think that Kerry should get brownie points for the Presidency just because he is a vet, and I find him having photo-op after photo-op with vets disgusting.

And he and Edwards helped send our people off to war, and I am in close touch with VETERANS FOR PEACE, which does not support this war.

So, go ahead and flame me, but don't say that I dissed Kerry because he's a vet.

[Zhade]

41. You know, I really have to ask this: what's a "war hero"?

War is not heroic.

[diamond14]

44. risking your own life to save others, in a war, is heroic...JFK service

John Kerry's Vietnam Service Record:

February 18, 1966 – Kerry formally enlists in the U.S. Navy

August 22, 1966 – Kerry reports for Naval Officer Candidate School at the U.S. Naval Training Center in Newport, Rhode Island

December 16, 1966 – Kerry receives commission as an Ensign

January 3, 1967 – Kerry reports for duty at the Naval Schools Command at Treasure Island (CA)-Takes 10 week Officer Damage Control Course

March 22, 1967 – Reports to U.S. Fleet Anti-Air Warfare Training Center (CA). Receives training as a Combat Information Center Watch Officer.

June 8, 1967 – Kerry reports to USS Gridley-serves in several capacities

February 9, 1968 – USS Gridley departs for a Western Pacific (WESTPAC) deployment, to engage in operations in support of the Vietnam War. Ship spends time in the Gulf of Tonkin off North Vietnam, at Subic Bay in the Philippines and in Wellington, New Zealand

February 10, 1968 – Kerry requests duty in Vietnam He lists his first preference for a position as an officer in charge of a Swift Boat (designated PCF for Patrol Craft Fast), his second as an officer in a patrol boat (designated PBR, for Patrol Boat River) squadron

May 27, 1968 – USS Gridley sets sail for the US

June 6, 1968 – Kerry arrives in Long Beach the day after Senator Robert F. Kennedy is killed in Los Angeles

June 16, 1968 – Kerry promoted to Lieutenant, Junior Grade

July 20, 1968 – Kerry leaves Gridley for specialized training at the Naval Amphibious Base in Coronado, CA in preparation for service as commander of a Swift Boat. These unarmored, but heavily armed, fifty foot aluminum hulled patrol boats depended on speed and agility when engaging the enemy.




November 17, 1968 – Upon completion of his training, Kerry reports for duty to Coastal Squadron 1, Coastal Division 14, Cam Ranh Bay, South Vietnam.

December 1968 through January 1969 – Kerry commands PCF-44

December 2, 1968 – Kerry experiences first intense combat; receives first combat related injury.

December 6, 1968 – Kerry moved to Coastal Division 11 at An Thoi on Phu Quoc Island

December 13, 1968 – Kerry moved to Coastal Division 13, Cam Ranh Bay

December 24, 1968 – Kerry involved in combat during the Christmas Eve truce of 1968. The truce was three minutes old when mortar fire exploded around Lieutenant Kerry and his five-man crew. Reacting swiftly, John Kerry and his crew silenced the machine gun nest

January 22, 1969 – Kerry and other Swift boat commanders travel to Saigon for meeting with Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, Commander Naval Forces Vietnam (COMNAVFORV), and Gen. Creighton Abrams, Commander United States Military Assistance Command Vietnam (COMUSMACV)

Late January, 1969 – Kerry joined his 5 man crew on PCF-94




Late January through Early March, 1969 – Starting in late January 1969, this crew completed 18 missions over an intense and dangerous 48 days, almost all of them in the dense jungles of the Mekong Delta. Kerry's crew included engineman Eugene Thorson, later an Iowa cement mason; David Alston, then the crew's only African-American and today a minister in South Carolina; petty officer Del Sandusky of Illinois; rear gunner and quartermaster Michael Medeiros of California; and the late Tom Belodeau, who joined the crew fresh out of Chelmsford High School in Massachusetts. Others rotated in and out of the crew. The most intense action came during an extraordinary eight days of more than 10 firefights, remembered by Kerry's crew as the "days of hell."

February 20, 1969 – Kerry and crew involved in combat; Kerry receives second combat injury – Kerry earned his second Purple Heart after sustaining a shrapnel wound in his left thigh.

February 28, 1969 – For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action while serving with Coastal Division ELEVEN engaged in armed conflict with Viet Cong insurgents in An Xuyen Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 28 February 1969. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94 and Officer in Tactical Command of a three-boat mission. As the force approached the target area on the narrow Dong Cung River, all units came under intense automatic weapons and small arms fire from an entrenched enemy force less than fifty-feet away. Unhesitatingly, Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry ordered his boat to attack as all units opened fire and beached directly in front of the enemy ambushers. The daring and courageous tactic surprised the enemy and succeeded in routing a score of enemy soldiers. The PCF gunners captured many enemy weapons in the battle that followed. On a request from U.S. Army advisors ashore, Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry ordered PCFs 94 and 23 further up river to suppress enemy sniper fire. After proceeding approximately eight hundred yards, the boats again were taken under fire from a heavily foliated area and B-40 rocket exploded close aboard PCF-94; with utter disregard for his own safety and the enemy rockets, he again ordered a charge on the enemy, beached his boat only ten feet from the VC rocket position, and personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy. Upon sweeping the area an immediate search uncovered an enemy rest and supply area which was destroyed. The extraordinary daring and personal courage of Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire were responsible for the highly successful mission. His actions were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.

March 13, 1969 – For heroic achievement while serving with Coastal Division ELEVEN engaged in armed conflict with Viet Cong communist aggressors in An Xuyen Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 13 March 1969. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94, one of five boats conducting a SEA Lords operation in the Bay Hap River. While exiting the river, a mine detonated under another Inshore Patrol Craft and almost simultaneously, another mine detonated wounding Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in the right arm. In addition, all units began receiving small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks. When Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry discovered he had a man overboard, he returned upriver to assist. The man in the water was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry then directed his boat to return and assist the other damaged boat to safety. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry’s calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry is authorized to wear the Combat “V”.

March 17, 1969 – The policy of Coastal Squadron One, the swift boat command, was to send home any individual who is wounded three times in action. After sustaining his third wound from enemy action n Vietnam, Kerry was granted relief under this policy.

Early April, 1969 – Kerry departs Vietnam

April 11, 1969 – Kerry reports for duty at the Military Sea Transportation Service, U.S. Atlantic Fleet in Brooklyn, NY.

January 1, 1970 – Kerry promoted to (full) Lieutenant

January 3, 1970 – Kerry requests discharge

March 1, 1970 – Kerry’s date of separation from Active Duty

April 29, 1970 – Kerry listed as Registrant who has completed service

[Zhade]

48. Okay, I'll grant that there's one good answer in there.

Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry then directed his boat to return and assist the other damaged boat to safety.

This is heroic, yes. And it happened during a war. I can accept that makes him, by definition, a war hero.

I just don't think that the term "war hero" makes a lot of sense, as most of what's involved in war - aside from saving others - is not heroic, especially in a war that should never have been fought.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[diamond14]

60. Kerry is not MY hero...his medals prove that he is AMERICA's hero

America's HERO...which is what it means when OUR military awards Kerry a Bronze Star with V for valor, a Silver Star and THREE Purple Hearts...and that mean that Kerry is AMERICA's HERO....

it is a NATIONAL recognition...it's not that Kerry ADMITTED that he was a war hero....

the reality is that KERRY was AWARDED his medals by Military Officers....

[Zhade]

62. Please show me where I am degrading Kerry's service.

I asked a question, you gave an answer. In your provided example, only one thing stands out as heroic to me, and that is his actions to save his comrades under fire.

Storming enemy positions is not heroic. It may be courageous, but the intent is to kill the other side. I don't find the killing on either side in a war heroic. Not even against the Nazis was killing fellow human beings heroic. Regrettably necessary, yes. Courageous and valiant at times, yes. But war as a whole is not heroic. Rather, it is a mutual pact of horror and destruction.

It's not degrading Kerry's service in the slightest to say that I find his saving lives the one truly heroic act portrayed in the example you gave. I concede the "war hero" status he earned for saving those lives, but most of the time he was just doing what the rest of the soldiers were doing: trying to stay alive in a dirty, pointless war.

On the other hand, I admit that to just get through that hell with your soul intact is pretty heroic. I just wish Kerry would remember how he felt when he went against the government's lies, and stop giving b*sh so much leeway to get away with new ones.

[diamond14]

67. "Storming enemy positions is not heroic." ?

"Not even against the Nazis was killing fellow human beings heroic."

There are MANY Jewish survivors of nazi concentration camps who would disagree with your message...to them, and to me, and to most Americans, OUR Veterans, who saved the lives of Jewish concentration camp victims, are certainly heros....

IMO, your message is a GREAT insult to OUR Veterans...

[Zhade]

81. Wow, you sure managed to miss my point entirely.

Liberating concentration camp survivors is obviously heroic. And, if you'd bothered to read my post, rather than scan it to look for something to be offended about, you'd realize I would agree with that sentiment.

I said SAVING LIVES, not KILLING, is heroic. You can spin my comments however you want, but it won't change the fact that there's nothing to your condemnation of my point.

In my honest view, there is nothing in war that is heroic, except for those actions that selflessly help others. Killing fellow human beings, even "evil" ones, is not heroic.

Take umbrage if you like, but I haven't said anything to insult veterans or dishonor their service.

[union_maid]

15. I'm very excited about Kerry

Kerry is a true liberal and always has been. He has a long voting record and therefore it's not pretty but his ratings reflect his liberalism. He's rated high with liberal groups and low with conservative ones. He wasn't my first choice, but that was at least in part because I didn't see him doing a great job of campaigning, and also because I would have rather had someone who was not currently occupying either a Senate or Congressional seat running. I wanted them to stay right where they were. Now it look like he'll probably be the nominee and his campaigning style is improving apace. If it's not him, it'll be Edwards. I'll be voting Kerry in my primary, but I like Edwards, too. Either way, it'll be the first time in a very, very long time that I'm going to be voting for a presidential candidate with real enthusiasm. My votes for Dukakis, Clinton and Gore were all pretty much votes against the Republicans. I liked Mondale, but he never had a chance. I liked Carter all right, but I don't recall being this excited about him as an individual. I knew McGovern was the wrong candidate even though I admired him a lot. This time, we had a slew of "right candidates" to choose from and we're getting one of them and I'm very psyched about it.

[Leilani]

17. It seems to me

that a lot of people supporting Kerry & voting for him in the primaries, are doing so because they feel he can win, he has the resume, experience, etc.

But I don't sense a lot of passion. I think it's more of an anti-
Bush thing.

Unfortunately, I don't think Kerry is inspirational; I think he's a professional pol with a long career, who has taken the expedient path many times.

I wish he would work on his speaking style, & talk like a person, & not like a Senator. Also, shorten the answers, & get some new lines.

[MercutioATC]

19. Look at nearly all of the exit polls. People vote for the other candidates

because they agree with them on the issues. They vote for Kerry because they think he can beat Bush.

Beating Bush is a good thing, but issues are what inspire people.

[Maat]

25. There's lots to like about Kerry.

First, he opposes the death penalty, a barbaric practice that just reduces us down to the convicted defendant's worldview (trust me, as a social worker I spoke many times with people who did very vile things...and the only ones that get hurt by their death or punishment are their families...they love the attention..in a sick sort of way...better just to isolate them forever). Second, he is on record as voting against DOMA. I praise him for having the courage to speak out when he came back from Vietnam. I praise him for having the sense of honor and duty necessary to endure several tours in Vietnam. He's a cancer-survivor, and that takes courage.

[MercutioATC]

32. I agree. I also feel there's lots not to like...

NCLB, Patriot Act, IWR...

It's not so much his votes, it's his insistance that they were the RIGHT votes. I had no problem coming to accurate conclusions about these issues and I'm a friggin air traffic controller. Why did a carreer legislator have more difficulty that I did?

Personally, I don't think he had a problem deciding. I think he cast his votes in the name of political gain rather than principle....and THAT'S what I find unattractive.

[Zhade]

45. He didn't have more difficulty. Clearly, you were right, Kerry was wrong.

My biggest problem with Kerry is the same you mention: he refuses to accept that they were the wrong votes.

Contrast his attitude toward the IWR vote with Henry Waxman, my rep. Waxman came back to his constituents, hat in hand, admitted to the terrible decision to vote for the IWR, and showing what he was doing to rectify the wrongs he helped put in motion (such as grilling Rice on why forged 'Niger' documents were intentionally used to support assertions in the SOTU).

Kerry has...what? Said he'd do it with more countries.

Um. Not contrite enough for me, thanks.

I'll vote for Kerry, but I don't trust or respect him. Kerry supporters will have to accept that my allegiance stops at pulling the lever for Kerry, IF he's the Dem nominee.

You've got my reluctant vote, but don't bother trying to convince me there will be much change. Some, but not a lot. Of course, the reality is that, should Kerry win the nom and then the GE, we'll see one way or the other if I'm right. I'd be glad to say I was wrong if I turn out to be.

I kinda doubt I will have to confess that, though.

[MercutioATC]

47. I agree. Waxman was a class act about this. He may have made the wrong

decision, but he admitted it. Kerry and Edwards haven't done that. In fact, Kerry has criticized other candidates' qualificitions in foreign relations. That's why I won't vote for him unless I'm forced to.

[diamond14]

36. another.....Kerry no "INSPIRE PEOPLE"...reTHUGlican talking

point of the week....

it seems odd that everyone is now looking for a Presidential INSPIRATION...on cue for the rovian talking 'list' of important words to use against KERRY this week....LOL....

IMO, I am actually SICK of all that religious inspiration coming out of the bush* criminals lately...and I don't want INSPIRATION....nor do I want INSPIRATIONAL PASSION....

I want a PRESIDENT....

and Kerry will be a great President....

[MercutioATC]

37. Nope, just stating fact. Kerry doesn't get votes because people agree

with him on the issues as much as other candidates. He does get votes because people see him as being able to beat Bush.

Personally, I think it's sad that Democrats are, once again, sacrificing policy for perceived electibility.

[Old and In the Way]

38. Total BS.

Kerry's record speaks for itself. True, there are better speakers, but Kerry's record is his testement to who he is as a progressive Democrat. Really, bloviating about how good you are, can carry you just so far. Kerry's done it......and he will be a truely great President.

[diamond14]

43. TRUE....Kerry will be truely GREAT President...

he's the REAL DEAL...


http://www.JohnKerry.com

[ibegurpard]

63. "Anybody but Bush" not good enough for you anymore?

Now you want people who despise Kerry to say what a wonderful guy he is? Get real.

[Leilani]

21. But if he's the nominee, he has my vote

& I defenitly respect his military record. I think it's terrible if people are critical of that..makes no sense.

[diamond14]

24. "but I don't see a lot of "PASSION"....the reTHUGlican talking point

again....

PASSION is the new rovian-talking point...a nebulous deficiency in Kerry....LOL....

and then you got in a few more nasties....
"I wish he would work on his speaking style, & talk like a person, & not like a Senator. Also, shorten the answers, & get some new lines."

nice try, but I am not buying it....

[RafterMan]

23. The Kerry folk

Are too busy bashing anti-abb'ers to worry about their candidate.

They also seem to have forgotten that Edwards is still running.

[indigo32]

31. shoot and score!!!

eom

[tedoll78]

35. Kerry is uber-liberal!

We will have nominated one of the most liberal senators we could!

Kerry will name wonderful Supreme Court justices.. just think.. Chief Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg! It rolls off of the tongue so very easily.. :)

In addition, Kerry will restore respect and admiration for our country all over the world!

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

66. You're right!

ahh, it feels good to be liberal.

[gate of the sun]

40. in some other universe

where Kerry deserved it.

[AVID]

49. I Praise KERRY

[dkf]

51. Geez, I'm pinching my nose if I vote for him and you want me to

praise the guy?

C'mon leave me a little dignity please.

[Iverson]

64. That energy is needed for Nader-bashing.

Look around you.
The preference is clear.

[LWolf]

71. Kerry's ok.

I don't dislike him. I'll vote for him if I have to.

Here's some praise:

He's a democrat. He has done some good things. He isn't GWB.

What I won't do is praise a platform, or a plan, or a take on issues, that I feel is inferior to another candidate while we still have a choice. We still have a choice here. The votes have not all been cast, and the convention has not been held. If someone else's record on a particular issue, or platform, etc., is better, they get the praise.

[Jen72]

73. Absolutely.

I sincerely hope that he becomes president.
If he has Clark on the ticket even better.

[goldengreek]

74. You'll get none from me.

Kerry voted for war. He voted for the tax cuts. He voted for the Partriot Act. He can bite me. It made me VERY angry to see Democrats herded into voting for Kerry in N.H. And why? Because Dean's 'unelectable,' of course!!

(never mind the fact he was statistically tied with Dubya)

He's CRAZY, of course!

(never mind the fact that everyone now admits he was basically slandered for that speech in Iowa.)

I'm positive Gephardt threw Iowa on purpose, and I will not allow myself to support a man like Kerry, who has a history of stabbing people like me in the back.

You know, of course, that Scott Ritter's pretty sure Kerry knew Bush was lying about WMD's in Iraq, right?

[ldoolin]

77. It would have been helpful if...

...if the Kerry supporters hadn't flooded DU with hatred directed at Howard Dean for so long.

[Ksec]

80. I agree.

Thats the problem we have to deal with. Deanies are going to blame Kerry for Deans demise with the vitriol he threw around. I completely understand that and I somewhat agree that the vitriol wasnt a smart move. I would like to see Kerry bring Dean aboard with an important job and maybe this would ease the tensions we have with each other. Look I was a Clark Kucinich man. We lost. Oh well . We gave it our best. I dont like the fact that we lost but it happened , I accept it.

Now its time to forgive and forget and get on with the task of beating the real enemy. The Repukes.

[ldoolin]

82. We agree then

Kerry really needs to consider bringing Dean into his campaign in a big way, offering him a cabinet position for example. Ditto for Clark. And he's probably going to have to offer Edwards the VP slot to put to rest any bad blood from the Kerry-Edwards showdown during what's left of the primary season.

And I don't know if Kerry has this in mind, but our next Attorney General really needs to be Carol Moseley-Braun. I'm not kidding here, she deserves it, and I am sorry I didn't give her more consideration during the primary than I did. Carol Moseley-Braun rocks!

Kucinich is great on peace issues, the way Kerry *used* to be, but I'm not going there. I'll just say that if Kerry would take some of Kucinich's ideas and incorporate them into his own platform, he would look a lot better in my book.

Kerry could do a lot for bringing the party back together by offering major places in his next administration to Dean, Clark, Edwards, and Braun. Or he could instead play politics as usual, ignore the massive grassroots efforts that went into those campaigns, and alienate folks. It's up to Kerry.