Kucinich audio at Pee Dee says nothing about Paul as VP

[OzarkDem]

Have a listen. While he talks about how he admires Paul for his staunch opposition to the Iraq War, he does so only in the context of considering many people for his potential administration or cabinet. Nothing about Paul as his running mate.

Pee Dee has duped a few folks again.

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2007/11/exclusive_aud...

[OzarkDem]

1. ..

[dsc]

2. He was asked directly

and stated directly that he is considering Paul for VP. Stop pissing on us and telling us it is rain.

[OzarkDem]

4. Listen again

that's not what was said, no matter how much some may want that to be the case.

[dsc]

7. He said, "Imagine how powerful it would be to have a Republican and a Demcorat on the ticket"

The one and only way Paul would be on the ticket is a VP.

[LoZoccolo]

3. "It needs a left wing and it needs a right wing."

[OzarkDem]

5. Context?

What was being said before and after?

[LoZoccolo]

8. I invite everyone to listen to the audio for themselves! n/t

[The Magistrate]

6. Unfortunately, Ma'am

The question and answer are quite clear. The questioner says that Gov. Richardson has said he would announce cabinet choices, and the questioner presumes even a running mate, and asks Rep. Kucinich if he would do that, or is thinking of it, and Rep. Kucinich answers, "You know who I'm thinking about? Ron Paul." at which point the room breaks into happy applause. The English language being what it is, most anyone hearing that exchange would take from it the meaning that Rep. Kucinich is thinking about Paul as a potential running mate. Any embarrassment some among his supporters may feel over that is no one else's problem, but they cut a very poor figure trying to deny the thing was said, or claiming they understand it better than any other speaker's of the native tongue.

[OzarkDem]

9. Perhaps the Pee Dee will post a transcript

because that is not what I heard.

I encourage others to listen for themselves, particularly the beginning of the audio.

On edit: In addition, Dennis knows the process well enough to know that a GOP candidate could not be allowed on a Democratic candidate's presidential ticket.

Again, listen to the beginning. He's answering in context of a potential administration.

[ISUGRADIA]

13. There's nothing that prevents a GOP candidate running on the Dem ticket

If a majority of delegates vote for the candidate, the person is on the ticket. It may be a hard thing for delegates to swallow, but is potentially feasable. See the stories from 2004 when Kerry was informally floating John McCain's name for a bit.

[KingOfLostSouls]

10. methinks

kooch just got busted on his "Dean Scream" moment and the damage control is being brought out.


he was before it before he was against it, yadda yadda....

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cboy4]

12. It would be nice to hear him talk about this on

television in greater detail.

It's impossible to judge facial expressions listening to an audio clip.

[The Magistrate]

14. To Me, Sir, the Most Striking Element was the Happy Applause From The Audience

At the mention of Paul's name. These were seventy-odd supporters of Rep. Kucinich sufficiently hard-core to show up at a house party sort of affair: by now, these things are organizational rather than out-reach in nature. These are the people who will be ringing door-bells and dialing telephones over the next couple of months as his local campaign volunteers.

[cboy4]

15. I know Magistrate. I'm not denying he made the comment.

But he also made a crack about how the two differ on domestic issues.

Did he roll his eyes during the laughter? Did he make some other face?

I'd simply just like someone to ask him to reaffirm how interested/serious he is about actually running with a man who differs with him probably about practically every other important issue except war and trade.

I don't think it hurts to have the question asked in greater detail on camera.

You know?

[The Magistrate]

16. Pictures Would Be Nice, Sir, Certainly

Worth a thousand words, and all that....

But the applause commenced at the very mention of the name Ron Paul, in context of some position with a Kucinich administration, and coming from such an audience as this, that does disturb me a little. It suggests a shallowness of political understanding, an inability to tell who is on which side really, that is dismaying in people who have staked some claim to be regarded as radicals. It used to be that to be a radical meant to have a deeper understanding of political forces and characters, a very clear idea of what the actual battle-lines were, and to subject all to a rigorous and ruthless analysis informed by a coherent framework. That sort of applause for this sort of suggestion can only come from an audience dominated by people whose politics is shaped more by emotion than information and analysis, or in short, people not really much different from the mass market audiences of network news, distinguishable only by the wiles of niche-marketeers from the more numerous consumers readily satisfied by main-stream media channels.

[cboy4]

17. I don't disagree that Kucinich's comments should not

have received such a positive ovation.

But you know what? I'd also like to see/know who those people in the crowd were and learn whether their reaction was as serious as it sounded.

I've been to enough political events to know some people, especially those gathered around a candidate with the press standing right there, cheer enthusiastically regarding practically whatever he/she has to say.... especially if it's something unexpected and surprising.

I just want to know if spontaneity played any part in Kucinich's revelation and the crowd's reaction.

I think once DK puts this to bed on television in detail, or continues to talk about it, people can move on in the appropriate political direction in terms of support or no more support.

[sniffa]

29. jeez, how many sirs am i missing?

sir?

[cboy4]

31. Gasp! You have a Dennis Kucinich avatar?

Why that must mean you are in love with Ron Paul!!!

[sniffa]

38. it's a love revolution

don't worry, i've told to forget dennis, and get behind who i'm told, sir.

[2rth2pwr]

18. Are you really defending this with a denial?

"Who are you gonna believe, me or your lying ears?"

key Twilight Zone music.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

19. I have a friend who knows Kucinich personally...

My friend tells me the Ron Paul thing is just a publicity stunt, nothing more...



FWIW...

[The Magistrate]

20. The Damage Is Done Already, Ma'am

He has opened a hole for agitprop you could run a herd of cattle through, and it will not close. The whole 'I'm the real Democrat; none of these guys are real Democrats' line is gone forever: from now on it will sound like a kazoo, not a bugle.

Worse, to invoke the name of Paul for publicity is a tacit admission Paul is getting better traction than he is. To think he gains publicity and attention from doing this is to confess weakness, and that will always put blood in the water. This may prove to have cost him even his House seat a couple of years down the road.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

21. I suspect you're right, my dear Magistrate...

And that is a shame...

He is a most intelligent man...except when he isn't, of course...

Thank you for your always illuminating comments!

[antigop]

36. my dear Peggy, let me share something that I learned from a very bright attorney

EVERYONE has an agenda. You need to learn what that agenda is. If you don't know what the agenda is, you need to find out.

Now...why are certain posters on this thread but not on others?

Agenda, Peggy, agenda.

FWIW, my agenda has been very clear: I am against Democrats who will cater to corporations and sell out this country.
<edit> last line for clarity.

[denem]

22. Sadly you are right.

We project our hopes and dreams onto the candidates, particularly radicals, and looking back one, golden age appears after another. The less sentimental heirs to the gold laugh all the way their Reserve Bank. They don't fool around.

[hayu_lol]

23. I'm not now and never have been a Kucinich booster...

My opinion is that the guy is missing quite a few screws, nuts, bolts and so on. Elizabeth said it. Kucinich said it, hedging only slightly for future use.

He went on at length about his 'eagle' anology, I saw that eagle. The eagle had two wings. It had a right wing. It had a left wing. Sheesh.

Sounds about the level of thought in my pet goat.

He committed political suicide in front of a Paul audience who applauded and cheered.

[bluetrain]

32. Are you aware of how patronizing your "Sir"/"Ma'am" schtick comes off? /eom

[cali]

34. if only you'd said: "I find your use of Sir /Ma'am patrionizing.

It sounds like you're speaking for DUers in general. The Magistrate's use of Sir or Madam, doesn't bother me.

[bluetrain]

39. I think it's pretty clear to everyone here that we're all stating our own opinions on this board.

[sniffa]

ah, you too eh?

[antigop]

44. I agree. I find it patronizing as well. And I asked the Magistrate before...

and never got an answer.

The Magistrate referred to me as "Ma'am". I asked why he/she referred to me as "Ma'am" and never got an answer.

[mtnsnake]

49. You are as shallow as a dried up mud puddle

Try making a real point sometime on this forum instead of running around all the time spreading misery as if it's confetti.

[mtnsnake]

48. Oh for chrise sakes

It comes off as respectful and sincere especially if you read what he posts in his messages. I can't believe anyone would complain about someone showing a little respect. This place could use a lot more of it.

[Freddie Stubbs]

24. His whole campaign is a publicity stunt

[1corona4u]

30. Agreed.

[Perry Logan]

25. I'm still stunned by this Ron Paul thing. What was Dennis thinking?

[denem]

26. That's the problem - he was thinking.

He discussed it seriously with Elizabeth.

[cali]

27. He was thinking about how he could pick up bucks, voters and steam

in NH by tapping into the indie/libertarian crew enamoured with Paul. It's that simple.

[AlertLurker]

28. That would be my opinion, as well...

I would like to think that some thought went into Dennis' decision and I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt. I think that most can agree, he's not a fool, no matter what else.

He knew that the Authorization to go to War was unconstitutional, knew the decision to go to war with Iraq was a criminal act, wasn't fooled by The Patriot Act, the Bankruptcy Bill, the Homeland Security Act or the National Intelligence Act, so again - I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt.

He's not getting a fair shake from the opposition, the media, or his own party. He needs to elevate his profile before the NH primary (there are a LOT of Independents / Libertarians in NH), and he needs to do it inexpensively. He cannot afford to buy party endorsements like the big three and does not have the bucks for ads. Even bad press can do this for him, and let's face it, there has been no press worse for him than the Cleveland Plain Dealer...

I LIKED his explanation. Many Americans are sick to death of partisan politics and remember times when this was not always the case between Democratic and Republican Parties in Congress. A lot of us are quite simply more interested in solutions, rather than the sources of said solutions. But think: this has gotten some Independents very excited, as Kucinich's anti-corporate, pro-Constitutional message is very strong and compelling to them. He has always been somewhat of a renegade in terms of his outlook and his voting record, so on a very basic level, he ALREADY connects easily with those who feel disenfranchised by the corporate wings of the Democratic and Republican Parties and their respective DLC / RNC masters.

Independents / Libertarians are funny breeds of voters, too. They don't always vote right-wing, or left-wing for example. Attracting those with an interest in kicking the lobbyists out of the WH and restoring the Constitution and rule of law is VERY IMPORTANT to them. To some, it is ALL THAT MATTERS.

There's also the school of thought that says "he's only got 1-2% in the national polls - what's he got to lose?"

I can't vote, as I am a Canuck, but I am going to continue to support Dennis Kucinich - he's still the only real Democrat in the running, IMHO. I think I'll have to buy a couple of more t-shirts, or something...

[Renew Deal]

33. Stop, you're going to get dizzy

from spinning so fast.

[bluetrain]

35. DK flat out said in a radio interview yesterday that Paul on his ticket wasn't happening.

[cali]

37. you know, that's good, but the genie's out of the bottle

he should have squelched this when his wife spoke out, and he shouldn't have said what he did in NH.

[Freddie Stubbs]

41. So, he was for Ron Paul before he was against him?

[riqster]

40. I just listened to it again

...and it still sounds to me like he's calling out Ron Paul as a running mate, because possible cabinet members don't "balance a ticket". Running mates do.

Somebody want to post an audio clip of Kooch explicitly ruling it out? I'd appreciate it, because I relly want to support him as I did until yesterday.

[bluetrain]

43. I don't have an audio clip, but he ruled it out on this

http://www.ktlk.com/pages/On_Air_Hosts.html?feed=119597...

guy's show yesterday. I think it was during the first hour. Maybe someone can get a clip from them.

[robbedvoter]

42. Ticket or no ticket smells like bi-partisanship" to me and I ain't in no mood

Sorry, I was for Kucinich until this - even fought his wife's statement...
point is, i don't want Rue Paul (sic!) anywhere near a government as i care for separation of church and state, public education and FEMA. And loathe racism.

[hootinholler]

45. If this had come from anywhere but the PeeDee...

I would be a lot more upset. I too want to hear the conversation before this question just because the CPD has been sooo supportive of DK. They wouldn't publish anything out of context, would they?

I think he was making a point about considering all sides *before* making a choice, but alas, nuance doesn't convey well in Murika!

And yes, Dennis is getting another $50 from me today so it gets matched!

-Hoot

[Stevepol]

46. I listened and I didn't hear anything about vice-president or running mate.

The question he was asked was about his administration, who he was considering for that. His point was that he was willing to have somebody like Ron Paul as part of his admin. To my mind that's not a bad idea, assuming that Ron Paul would do such a thing. Paul is certainly honest I think, even if some of his ideas are pretty cockamamey.

[stimbox]

47. Listen to this audio clip...

http://tinyurl.com/3cya9z

dennis says it's not going to happen.