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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 01:41 PM
Original message
Some Candidates Are More Equal Than Others.
Call Clinton Hiltery? Hey, no problem! Call her a witch, a bitch, a bush clone? Fair as fair can be. Slam her on her marriage or her husband's philandering? Why not? Post her picture next to one of bush, with the caption "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"? *Shrug* There's more. You know them.

Criticize Edwards or Kucinich, the DU favorites, even substantively, and to echo a turn of phrase that was much in vogue among some a few weeks back; you become the target of "ritual shaming"- or to put it more simply, righteous indignation rings metaphorically throughout DU.

It's the hypocrisy, stupid.

DISCLAIMERS:

I do not support Clinton or any other candidate who voted for the IWR- not in the primaries. I will crawl through broken glass to vote for the dem nominee in November of '08.

I am not justifying my use of an offensive phrase in regards to some of Edwards' supporters.

Yes, I realize that a certain amount of hypocrisy should be glanced over, but it's reached such a level, that I don't see why it shouldn't be called for what it is.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. self-serving
kick for hypocrisy.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. Someone got up on the wrong side of the bed today
Can you say anything postive?
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Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. The pictures of Bill with the Bushes and Hillary with Murdoch aren't photoshopped.
They're real, and they speak volumes. As does her list of corporate funders.

Those are valid issues, and they are among the many reasons that I cannot support such a candidate.

If pictures of Dennis Kucinich socializing with Rupert Murdoch existed, I'd expect people to call attention to them. Thankfully, there are no such pictures, because Dennis isn't for sale. And there's the difference, and it's a huge difference, given the current corporatist mentality, and how it has all but completely destroyed this country.

I haven't followed your particular problems with Edwards, so I won't comment on that. But I'll take your word that you won't support a warmonger.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. how good of you to take my word!
I'm not talking about real phots. I'm talking about pictures of Clinton juxtaposed side by side with pictures of bush with the caption I referenced in my OP.

Is there anything you think is too low, or do you believe that common decency shouldn't be extended to Clinton? How about Clinton photoshopped as Hitler, complete with mustache? That was posted here. How about bashing her for not leaving her husband? That too has been posted.

I like Dennis, but I consider his friendship with a racist repuke, a bit discomforting.
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Kucinich4America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I wouldn't characterize either Clinton as Hitler
I only put the Bush Crime Family in that category, and because they were literally connected to Hitler.

As far as Hillary's marriage, Monica, Hillary's alleged relationship with her assistant.... none of that shit makes a damn bit of difference to me. It's her repuke-lite corporatism that sickens me, not her private life.

And I'm not wasting anymore time on that distortion from the Cleveland Fish Wrapper.
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. The hypocrisy's so deep lately
you could drown in it. I caught the "meet the new boss" pic. Charming. As if we couldn't post a similar smear about his awesomely terrific candidate.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. I do have problems with the Clinton's,
And it started with his administration. I try not to call names, I try not to attack without substance.

As far as the pic goes, they both work with or for the same people. I believe there is little difference between the two. And the more MSM pushes Hillary, the stronger my opinion grows.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. hmm.
You are influenced by the MSM. And if you don't know why you are, ponder it. And just so you know, the MSM's coverage of Obama is significantly more favorable than of Clinton. I posted a diary from kos complete with the statistics, this morning.

Some of us simply do not tune in to the MSM at all. I know all I need to know about it from the internet. Try cutting it out of your life. Who knows, it may make a difference.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Honey Bee?
Have you been watching me again? How do you know what I watch on TV, or what newspapers I read?

I just don't know HOW you manage to do it.

See ya, doll.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. ahh, pookie
imitation is the best form of flattery, or so they say, kumquat.

I hate to break this to you, sweetcheeks, but you referenced the MSM influencing you in your post.

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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Yes tootsie,
I did. And if you read anything on line, or listen to any left wing radio, or watch Democracy Now, for example, you know the Clinton's, and Rudy, of course, are being pushed by MSM.

Nice try twinkle-toes, but no cigar.

(But honestly, I'm loving this, I'll be up to 1000 posts by the end of the hour. And mostly, it will be because of you!)

What else ya got, sweetcheeks?
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
32. Why do you always take off just when it's getting fun?
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. she is looking up the correct spelling of snookems
and pondering whether or not hurling insults at DU members is an example of the hypocrisy she describes... in and of itself.

Disclaimer

1) I crawled through glass just to write this post
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. dude, seriously,
That is funny stuff. Thanks for making me laugh.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. oh dear
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 04:45 PM by cali
munchkinpop. I had things to do. you missed me that much eh, flopsy?

I'm just a wee bit bored with this, pootie. And you just keep mimicking me, my little parrot. If you kept up better, dolly, it might be more fun.

For now it's lost its lustre.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. So I'm to assume you're really going away this time?
Promises promises.

Your lips say "no no" but your typing says "yes yes."
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
10. You say:
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 03:07 PM by EV_Ares
"Criticize Edwards or Kucinich, the DU favorites, even substantively, and to echo a turn of phrase that was much in vogue among some a few weeks back; you become the target of "ritual shaming"- or to put it more simply, righteous indignation rings metaphorically throughout DU."

That may be true somewhere but for me I can speak as to what I have been called and other things just for posting an article which was factual but unfavorable of Hillary. All it was was a factual article that Hillary supporters did not like and it did not happen just once. So as to your comment about Edwards or Kucinich supporters, you need to add the Hillary supporters as well and they are rather extreme in their manners at times.

I will take your word for it you don't support Clinton but I am sure others as myself find it difficult as the only posts I have seen you make are usually slams/attacks/criticisms, whatever on Edwards and Obama and the only posts for Hillary are usually complaining about what has been or is being said about her or in any respect a favorable article towards her. Nothing wrong with that but it may be why you have to defend yourself so much you are not a Hillary supporter.

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Factual criticism is different than what I'm referencing in my OP
and you don't have to take my word for anything, you can do a search and find posts of mine critical of Clinton. Lots of them too. You're just wrong about my posting only in defense of her. And I rarely have posted anything positive about her. I do get attacked occasionally by a Clinton supporter for criticizing her substantively, and I react to that.

Why do I defend her so much? Partly because I see some of it as sexism, but even more of it as hate talking. No other candidate gets treated in such a way. It offends me to see her called bitch, corporate whore, nazi, fascist, etc. And when I see that crap about other poster- and it does happen from time to time- I call that for what it is too.

I've never seen you write anything defamatory about Clinton that I can recall, so I'm clearly not referring to you in the OP.
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
14. It's gone beyond merely attacking
Clinton and moved into attacking any Democrat that supports Clinton. I've seen some of our most loyal Dems shot down for supporting her. I'm always amazed that so many cannot see how personal their hatred has become for her.I love to see a comparison done on personal attacks during the last campaign,I find it hard to believe it ever went this far beyond attacks on policy as it has with her.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Every supporter of every candidate has been attacked. It isn't just the Hillary supporters
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 03:28 PM by Beaverhausen
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I'm sorry but the scale of attacks
does not even compare.A quick scan of DU makes that obvious. To point out that other candidates are attacked here does not speak to the over the top vitriol commonly thrown around when it comes to Hillary Clinton.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I disagree. Every candidate and his/her supporters get attacked
Well, mostly Obama, Edwards and Hillary. Occasionally the "Biden is a BofA whore" thread pops up and, then there was the whole DK- Ron Paul thing.

I think we are each more sensitive to the attacks on the candidate we support.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. that's just not accurate
if you can't see that there's disparity both quantitatively and qualitatively, you're blinded by partisanship.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. How many threads did you start today alone attacking Edwards?
They are ALL attacked. Get over it.
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. When is the last time you saw a
demeaning photo shopped pic of any other candidate? There is a whole thread in GD right now about a "rumor" that Bill Clinton is being unfaithful to her.Go have a look at the gleeful shit being posted there. Have you seen thread after thread devoted to Kucinich past marital problems? Do you see anyone questioning any other candidates personal life as reason enough not to vote for them?How about "body language"? Odor? Looks? Sexuality?
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. I have seen posts like that about all the candidates
I didn't even bother to open the Clinton-affairs thread. I don't need to see it. Yes, it sucks. So does the nasty cartoon about Edwards supporters in another thread I just read.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. yiikes.
you really can't see this objectively. Carry on.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. And by the way, supporters of every candidate better get used to it
I predict a general election nastier than any we have ever experienced. I'm not looking forward to it quite frankly.
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. All the more reason why Dems should not
be leading the charge.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. I agree
I think I have a good record of not posting negative things about other candidates. We don't need to do the republicans work for them.

I do confess that I posted in the Hillary- Colin Powell thread yesterday but what I said was "please tell me she didn't say that."
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. I honestly don't mind the majority of posters here
who just don't agree with her politically,it's our right to choose whom we are the most comfortable with.What I don't understand is the need to personalize it. If you disagree with Clinton's choice of including Powell in policy issues,that's a perfectly legitimate reason to bitch. I'm glad you're staying with the issues.
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Seriously,If you can't see the disparity between the
personal slams against Clinton as opposed to all the others,you're not looking. It's not even close. And as I said,now even well known Dems who have always been nothing but loyal and hard working for our party, get the same demeaning treatment for supporting her.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Yeah, well I'm a good loyal dem and have been treated the same way
We have to agree to disagree about this.


May the best candidate win!
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Agreed.nt
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
29. Some insults more equal than others, IMO
Characterizations like Hitlery or witch or bitch or other personal disparagements should be considered off limits, IMO.

However, frankly, phrases that address her in regard to issues are okay within the proper context. Personally, I think "meet the new boss....etc" is entirely appropriate on some levels, if one considered her to be a servant of the same "boss" (i.e. the corporate elite) that has been driving down this country since 1980.

Her marriage is also fair game, because she has made it a centerpiece of subtext to justify her election.

On the otehr hand, I believe Dennis Kucinich is totally right on the issues, and I admire his courage and consistency enormously. And I find the notion that his positions are "far left whacko" to be very offensive.

However, I think one of the funniest posts I've seen on DU referred to him as representing "All the people who were chosen last in volleyball." A cheap shot, but really funny and not offensive to me.

I guess we all have our own personal hot buttons, and it all boils down to personal taste and personal boundaries, I suppose.

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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Very good point.
I must say that I agree 100%.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
30. This would be a prudent time to move on to another topic. n/t
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
33. You are right, Cali. Life is unfair for Hillary
I hope she manages to survive all these mean, nasty attacks from those big bad DU posters
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. I doubt that Clinton sweats the "mean,nasty attacks"
from DUers,I doubt the OPs intention was to "protect" Clinton from anybody.It sounded more like a statement on the level of discourse here in regards to Clinton.Hillary can take care of herself.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. I doubt it too, she has stated, repeatedly, she does not support Clinton
and I take her at her word.

In regards to DU -- who said politics was fair? This is a progressive site, and whatever flack Hillary gets here, nasty or not, is a reflection of the views of it's membership. Take it or leave it.

Whining about it doesn't win you anything.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. lol
it's about DU, way more than it's about Clinton. It's about hypocrisy. It's about who we are as a community. Too complicated for you? Guess so.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. should I go ____ myself again now
I didn't mean to interrupt your discussion of who we are as a community
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. just one question
how was it, dude?
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. shhh -- I'm not done
:P
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
45. Thanks, Cali, for standing up for fairness. I agree with you...let the majority
choose the nominee and whoever it is I will work for the candidate with vigor and enthusiasm. No more pukes appointing any judges to the federal court; no more torture; no more Haliburton; no more lying, non-engaged puppets who fart in public at the WH. The list is too long to further enumerate; we all know its indefensible details anyway.
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