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I hate to sound cold and callous about Biden and his loss thirty years ago

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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 11:30 AM
Original message
I hate to sound cold and callous about Biden and his loss thirty years ago
I really do. Much of what I write here is mainly based on how I feel about the topic.

I understand that losing a loved one, especially your family is a profound experience. I lost my sister in simialar fashion 9 years and empathize here.

OTOH.

Did this guy ever think about this experience when he voted to send the daughters, mothers, sisters, brothers, fathers, aunts and uncles of everyone else to go die in the desert? For a guy who's supposed to be a foreign relations expert and has access to all sorts of information and other experts in this field (paging Ritter, Wilson, Plame and Behr) I think more than just an apology is warranted here. There's absolutely no excuse here.

My neighbor has a son on his third tour of duty in Iraq and she just lost a husband to lung cancer two years ago. What does Biden, who should know what his vote cost others, have to say to her should he come back in flag draped coffin.

I feel bad for Biden and his loss so don't get me wrong on that. Thinking of my loss and knowing what that feels like I think I would have been EXTREMELY FUCKING CAREFULL sending someone elses child or parent off to die.

I would offer the same to any candidate who's suffered the same. But Biden just really pissed me off with his little sob story.
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pegleg Donating Member (788 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. Your concerns are certainly valid,but I think that he
is a man who learns from his mistakes.
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. I really dislike Biden but the two aren't really related...
I mean I fully agree about holding him accountable for his vote as I do all the candidates. And as a politician I really loathe Biden. Probably more than any other candidate we have. But I would say that opening up on this issue really seems more designed to humanize him than to justify any particular vote or anything of the sort. I actually find it interesting that I never knew this about him so that leads me to at least give him credit for not continually using it on campaign trails over the years. Good for him on that and if he feels he wants to use this story now to expand on what people know of him then I say good for him on that as well.

I still wouldn't vote for him in a primary for any reason in the world. But I'd say it's not fair to lump the two issues together.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. You obviously are missing the point
If you have watched "The War" program on Public Television, and if you watched it with open mind, you would have realized that sometimes wars are necessary.

I am not saying that the war in Iraq was one, though the one in Afghanistan did have merit.

A good, bold leader realizes that sometimes a war is necessary and young people have to be sent to die in battle. And if he cannot make such a hard decision based on personal problems than he does not fit to be a leader.

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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. Biden doesn't have blood on his hands
He made the wrong vote, but we should never make the mistake of claiming ownership of Bush's war. IWR was a mid-term electoral ploy designed to legitimize a wrong-headed war and no Democrat should have supported it. But it was hatched in Bush's White House, not the Senate.

As for the way he has handled his "little sob story," only an unfeeling ass would use a phrase like that. Biden has handled this aspect of his life with incredible restraint and dignity. But you obviously have difficulty recognizing those qualities in a human being.
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inthebrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I do
I don't judge people for how they feel about a thing. And I am not judging him for how he feels about his family.

I feel that after having gone through an experience like that one should "do unto others.....". And that's not to say I'm a religious person as I am not. I'm an atheist.

The loss that Biden suffered is profound and life altering. When voting to send other peoples kids to die (not to mention kill the children of Iraqis. And yeah, women and children suffer more and die more often in war than the soldiers fighting it by a 10-1 marjin) you really have to use your head. Especially when you access to people like Blix, Behr, Ritter, Wilson and Plame who were sounding alarm bells.

I felt and do still feel extremely angry towards Edwards who did the same damn thing.

None of it has anything to do with how they handled their losses. It has to do with going through that and making a hasty decision so others wind up suffering the same.

It disgusts me.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
5. Congress as a whole listened to the great experts
and the great experts, alas, were hand picked by the administration. They were treated to a parade from the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, the Pentagon, the State Department, and every other agency the administration could poison with neocon hacks and told that Saddam Hussein was an extreme threat who was rebuilding his military and developing nuclear warheads and the means to deliver them.

Against these hundreds of experts were the two voices of Scott Ritter and Hans Blix.

I understand why they voted the way they did. I understand also that they voted to allow Blix to finish his inspections and submit his report before any military action were started, a condition the administration simply ignored and which should have resulted in impeachment right then and there.

What I can't understand are the people who have not repudiated this vote, who have not admitted they were lied to again and again and based that vote on a pack of lies and who don't keep pointing out that the administration violated the conditions they set upon the use of force.

For that reason, neither Clinton nor Biden will get my vote in the primary.
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Steely_Dan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I believe that Biden DID apologize...
I will try and find the reference. He regretted his vote and said it was a mistake.

-Paige
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Thanks, I'll appreciate it greatly
if you can come up with the cite.

I like Biden for his humor and because he's always had unions on his side. It would be nice to drop the major grudge I have against him.
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Steely_Dan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Sorry...
I haven't forgotten you...I need to take care of something first.

Sorry.

-P
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