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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 01:37 AM
Original message
'Hillary Haters' Out in Force as 2008 Votes Loom
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 02:27 AM by Hissyspit
Source: Agence France-Presse

'Hillary haters' out in force as 2008 votes loom
2 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AFP) Prowling the Internet, spilling venom on blogs and dominating the airwaves on conservative talk radio, "Hillary haters" are back and out in force as 2008 presidential nominating contests loom.

Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton is sparking the same waves of vitriol in the conservative echo chamber that burst forth during her husband Bill Clinton's eight years in the White House.

Just 37 days before the leadoff Iowa caucuses, Clinton remains a lightning rod, targeted again by enemies who hounded her as first lady but adored by supporters backing her potentially historic campaign.

Clinton is the target of a daily ouburst of vitriol on blogs, branded a "communist," "Satan," "Jezabel," "Lady Macbeth" and a "female Stalin." One group, dubbed "Stop Hillary Now" is trying to recruit hundreds of millions of anti-Clinton activists through the online networking site Facebook.

Read more: http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5igJdGT1HrMZOhAmmY6U...


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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. It sure is nice to be able to come to DU to get away from all that...
...oh wait.


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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. LOL. So true, so true.
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thecrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
23. Overstock had this yesterday; today it is gone.



Has anyone else seen this?
Why don't they have a Rudy Drag Dress-up Doll?

On the other hand, Wachovia Bank has both "An Inconvenient Truth"
and "Who Killed the Electric Car" dvds
included in their electronics Visa Rewards program.
That was notable!
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Of course, many of us who won't vote for her are NOT mere haters.
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 02:21 AM by Zhade
We actually have significant problems with her stances, votes, and suggested plans.

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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I'm assuming you mean the primary.
I'm not voting for her in the primary either. You DO mean the primary, right?
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #10
32. Surely this has been made clear to you enough times.
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 07:50 AM by Tesha
Many of us won't vote for Hillary under *ANY* circumstance.
And I say this as someone who supported her in the past
*INCLUDING* significant financial support for her 2000
Senate run.

Tesha
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. Much as anyone who thinks * is a terrible president...
...is labeled "just a Bush-hater" by the Right. It's a sucker's game and a particularly clumsy framing attempt, and I ain't playin'.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. And again I am forced to notice just how much Bushies Strategy Sen. Clinton uses
That alone is creepy and frightening.

With friends like these...
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Mark E. Smith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. Naw. Let's just say that those who repeatedly bash Hillary on DU ...
... are "discerning political cognoscenti with a predisposition toward
holding strong negative opinions regarding Hillary Clinton."

To call them "Hillary Haters" would just be sooo crass, you know?
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
25. Now Zhade, stop hating.
We all know that only fools and haters disagree with Sen. Clinton, so stop saying that.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
38. THAT makes us haters, in the eyes of her paid staffers online.
Can't you see that she and only she is entitled to the office, that her money makes her inevitable, that her polling and focus groups prove her leadership quantities, and that your silly reference to fact-based votes and stances constitutes PURE HATRED?
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
46. Especially her stances.
Regarding free trade, job offshoring, Bewsh's folly wars, health care, etc.

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Gregory Purcell Donating Member (18 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. Hard right hates her for all the wrong Reasons. They are always wrong
"The US arms industry is backing Hillary Clinton for President and has all but abandoned its traditional allies in the Republican party."

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article307...

Why because she is ---

"Hillary Clinton, War Goddess
She wants permanent bases in Iraq and threatens war with Iran "

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=8428

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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
19. There are many Hillary Haters on the Left too
Just take a loook at the Code Pink crowd.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
31. For many reasons, Hillary is our worst candidate; facts is facts. (NT)
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
36. Can we have some shades of grey?
That article is speaking of the far RW attacks that are and have been unspeakable. They are in fact not just on HRC and BC. They have a regular litany where they define Democrats in malicious ways that completely distort the truth. (In addition to the Clintons, they include Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Dick Durbin, John Kerry, Chuck Schumer, Ted Kennedy and Howard Dean almost every time.)

But it is disingenuous for the HRC supporters here to have labeled people who express any negatives about HRC as "Hillary Haters" to be lumped with the right wing. This is pre-primary season and we have not selected a candidate. It is the time when the negatives and positives of each candidate should and will be discussed.

Everyone here has a different vantage point, but I have seen a lot of the animosity towards people emanating from the Clinton camp itself.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #36
42. "Can we have some shades of grey?"
Most likely, no. Consider the possibility of "guilt trip" as a campaign strategy for some.
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
47. I doubt many DUers would call her a "Stalinist".
Then again, in HillaryWorld, anything less than total acceptance of her as the next queen...I mean, president amounts to "hatred".
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. Anything is better than being ignored. nt
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
3. The fact that Hillary is a lightning rod for all right-wing dingbats is the primary
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 01:53 AM by Seabiscuit
reason why I don't think she should be our nominee. She'll bring out the Repuke vote like no other candidate would, and she could lose, and we'll end up with a Ghouliani or a Huckleberry or a Stormin' Mormon.

I want to see a real Dem in the White House. Not Republican and not Republican-lite. And the last thing I want to see is a Republican-lite losing to another Rethuglican.

Since Gore doesn't appear to be coming to our rescue, Kucinich, Edwards, Biden, Obama, or Richardson, in that order, will have to do.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. It's not just the right
Much as many of her supporters slag those of us with nary a good word to say about her as parroting right-wing screeds, the ire I see here comes from the left. That's the problem with being a "centrist": it's a two-front war.

Amid all the outrage and feeling of victimization, her supporters should really sit down and assess if all this is surmountable. There's a supreme irrationality to it, and it's typified by supporters who bemoan and decry all the opposition while they simultaneously claim that it really isn't there.

If she was a bold policy standard-bearer or something, it might be worth the gamble, but she's not. She's an ultra-moderate and completely in league with the corporatists and the entrenched power blocs of money and religion. Maneuvering and positioning are her ways, not standing ground on principle; why should we believe she ever really will?

Rasmussen gives her a 52% unfavorable. That's a REAL poll, not some online popularity contest.

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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
37. I would like to be a devil's advocate on the unfavorable number
Just reading here, I assume that many of us might respond - unfavorable - rather than favorable if polled. I have not been polled and I really don't know what I would say, because I want a middle category. I do know that I will definately find her opponent in the general election far worse.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
39. if she were a centrist, that would be one thing. but she is anything but.
in fact, one most difficult issues, she won't even take a position without polling, focus groups, and allowing far braver dem candidates stake out positions, take the heat, (and the applause) AND only then listen to corporatists like Mark Penn while crafting a non-position position.

Who has received more HMO lobbying donations?
Who has received more military lobby donations?
Who has received more financial institution donations?

Hillary.

If that doesn't scare you nothing will.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #39
50. Note the quotation marks; I'm with ya on this one.
She's a bit right of center; the term was used as a joke, hence the punctuation.

What a deplorable person.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. How dare ANYONE suggest we should cower before "rightwing dingbats."
What a completely gutless position to take. And how conveniently it avoids the real issue: FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT.

And we complain about Congress being craven?
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FREEWILL56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Just because she is the first woman running for the office of the presidency
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 03:16 AM by FREEWILL56
doesn't mean she is to be the first woman president. Your arguments are moot and baseless and are only meant to draw sympathy rather than address real issues that others address to get ELECTED. Here is an excerpt from another post on the matter of hillary.
"Hillary better start addressing issues as her points for election rather than her and her supporters constantly crying 'poor me, everybody just picks on me'. That doesn't get anybody elected and shouldn't and by the way things are going that if she doesn't get nominated you'd still cry poor her that all of the voters just pick on her. Hillary herself is a nonissue to me. I don't care if she's married to an ex-democratic president or a woman or whatever. Run on issues and argue the issues and if you can't do that don't cry poor me when you lose. I believe she will lose because she can't address her voting record without shooting the feet out from underneath herself and is why her supporters and her do not address real issues as they are contradictory to what the people want."
Your answer to attack the people based on those calling for answers to issues from her and her supporters as being supposed attacks on her because you can't go on issues is rediculous. Cry wolf long enough and if later a real concern of attack should happen then you know what the result will be. I am not against a woman for president for the record, but I don't see her as a good candidate choice for me. It could just as easilly be said that imho you are being a poor me due process of democracy hater in order to slide a woman in that the people don't want.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. But "issues" were not being addressed here, were they?
Saying we shouldn't vote for someone because rightwing crazies wouldn't like it? EXCUSE ME? How do you bring yourself to defend that?

And do please let me know what woman would be a suitable president for YOU.
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FREEWILL56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. From what I've been hearing from hillary supporters is
they claim it coming from Democratic sources and not repukes. I have seen this time and again here on the DU of hillary supporters crying democrats are spreading repuke attacks against her. If I'm reading that wrong i can withdraw my point.
As to who may be the acceptable 1st woman president in my view I'll let you know of when I she her run for office, but until then it is irrelevant.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:19 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. She is not the first woman running for the office of president.
And the democrats weren't the first to try it.

The first woman to run for the office of president was Victoria Claflin Woodhull in 1872. She ran under the Equal Rights Party which also had other female presidential candidates.

The first woman to run for U.S. president as a major political party candidate was U.S. Senator Margaret Chase Smith (of Maine), who ran for the Republican presidential nomination in 1964.

Cong. Shirley Chisholm (New York), Cong. Patsy Mink (Hawaii), and Cong. Bella Abzug (New York) simultaneously became the first Democratic women to run for U.S. president in 1972.

I don't feel a necessity or eagerness to pick a candidate based solely on gender. I'm sure Hillary won't be the last woman candidate we'll have to chose from.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. She isn't the first woman to run for president...
She is the first woman who has a realistic chance of winning the nomination of a major party...

But she is not the first woman to run for the presidency...
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
33. She's not the "first woman running for the ... Presidency".
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 07:58 AM by Tesha
She's not the "first woman running for the ... Presidency".

Shirley Chisholm was there long ago, later Carol Mosely
Braun, and doubtless other women I'm failing to remember
right now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Chisholm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category%3AFemale_United_S...

Tesha
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
40. historically, you are just plain wrong.
Shirley Chisholm ran long before hillary and her corporatists. and she was a black democrat. And Shirley was not even the first to run for president. Shame on you and other hillarians for ignoring her.

I can't stand people who don't know the real history of this country, or ignore it simply to benefit one woman who married well.
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FREEWILL56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
49. It seems I am corrected on her not being the first to run and that's fine.
It only changes a few words of what I had said to now read, 'Just because she is a woman running for president doesn't mean she'll be the first woman president'. The rest of my statement still stands.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #9
35. Hillary doesn't get a free ride
just because she has a vagina. She has to EARN my vote and perpetual war and being real cozy with corporate America while throwing the rest of us under the bus is NOT the way to do it. "Vote for me because I'm a woman" is NEVER going to fly with this feminist -- its the ultimate in sexism and insulting to all capable, smart women everywhere.
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. Dumbing down political discourse.
In which all reporting and commenting on politics has nothing to do with opposing ideology but rather, opposition is characterized as "hating". That characterization infers that we are nothing but a gaggle of hormone crazed teen-aged gossips too immature and stupid to take a stand on anything but popularity.

"Haters" became standard as a republican smear against progressive criticism of the Bush administrations governing in order to quash substantive arguments.

It is disheartening to see it used regularly here.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Sorta like everybody is taking Soma, or ought to be ...
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Indeed. We point out that Clinton can't choose to keep b*s*'s illegal powers, we get called haters.
Edited on Wed Nov-28-07 02:23 AM by Zhade
Fucking insane!

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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. indeed... very disheartening...and it seems to be cranking up the intensity
I mean, I'm not, by any stretch, a member of the GOP. I am an independent who decides on the issues. In a candidate, I look for someone who speaks the Truth, rather than someone who lies their ass off, like *, or who triangulates, like Hillary. Actually, that whole triangulation thing really bugs the crap out of me, because at the core of doing so is a belief in nothing but one's own career.

I don't like her talk on Iraq and Iran. I don't hear her calling for a restoration of our republic. I don't hear her calling for an end to the bogus 'war'(s) on drugs and terror, in lieu of a return to sanity.

What I DO hear is a candidate who is more than willing to carry the water for corporate 'Murika, and that's why I can't support her.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 05:03 AM
Response to Original message
20. The only thing that would be historic about a Hillary admin wiould be the further damage inflicted.
It's time to kick the AIPAC-loving corporate whores out of our government!!

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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 05:53 AM
Response to Original message
21. America the delusional
The far right never fails to impress.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 06:00 AM
Response to Original message
22. DUers are conservative? This explains a LOT! nt
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
27. "Hundreds of millions"?
"Stop Hillary Now" is trying to recruit hundreds of millions of anti-Clinton activists

Pretty ambitions goal, given there are just barely "hundreds of millions" of people in the country, let alone of voting age.
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
28. "hundreds of millions"?
"Stop Hillary Now" is trying to recruit hundreds of millions of anti-Clinton activists

Pretty ambitions goal, given there are just barely "hundreds of millions" of people in the country, let alone of voting age.
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
30. Hillary is a victim, poor Hillary. nt
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #30
43. LOL. the storyline from last week. This week,
it is HIllary the Strong.
Next week, Hillary the Woman
and then the week after, Hillary the Amazon Warrior

At least, that is the best series their focus groups came up with.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
34. I don't hate Hillary,
I just happen to disagree with 90% of her policies. If she wants to play politics with the big dogs (no pun intended), then she needs to stop this whiney shit - "WAAAAHHHHH the press is pickin' on me!" Yes, I know this is a "journalist" who wrote the story, but stories are usually purposely fed to, shall we say, "friendly" reporters.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
41. The "Stop Hillary Now" crowd hasn't done well thus far.
Though I think Democrats are going to do the job for them.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. think of it as self-preservation.
our nation, our party, and our sensibility - all at risk.
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
45. If we are smart, we will do all we can to maintain control of
both Houses of Congress. If we are smart we can come pretty close to the 60 mark in the Senate where no bill will ever need a cloture vote. If we are smart and I am sure all 50 states are represented here on the du, so we have to not only insure HRC is elected with both Houses Democrat.

Ben David
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
48. No worries.
Some of her supporters are pretty hateful, so it probably all balances out in a karmic sort of way.
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venable Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-28-07 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
51. but this time they are progressives, not right wingers
and the progressive are still asking why they should support her, from a policy, substance point of view. no answers have thus far been forthcoming.
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