Big Dog: "I opposed Iraq from the beginning." (not true, of course)

[geek tragedy]

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/11/bill_clinton_i_op...

Well, this line from Bill Clinton probably won't do a lot to help Hillary on the Iraq issue. Speaking to an Iowa crowd today, the former president criticized the Bush Administration for continuing to cut taxes even as they pursued wars — and went on to say that he opposed the Iraq War from the start.

"Even though I approved of Afghanistan and opposed Iraq — from the beginning — I still resent that I was not asked or given the opportunity to support those Soldiers," Bill told the crowd.

Remember folks, his wife the candidate voted for the war in 2002, and has been working hard ever since to assuage the doubts of Democratic activists. Furthermore, Bill voiced his support for it at the time.

So, either Bill is lying or Hillary disregarded his good advice.

Or maybe both--one never knows with the Clintons.

[polichick]

1. As I recall, they both came out in support of the war. nt

[geek tragedy]

2. They both did.

His statement isn't even truthy.

http://thepage.time.com/bill-clinton-on-iraq-in-2003/

[polichick]

5. Lol - truthy! Love that word. nt

[Tellurian]

15. How about accuracy? Bill Clinton was referring to Iraq during his tenure...Nice Smear!

Here is a full interview from 04'

Clinton weighs in on bin Laden, war in Iraq

Friday, July 9, 2004 Posted: 3:16 PM EDT (1916 GMT)

ON TV

Tune in to CNN for Christiane Amanpour's full interview with former President Clinton at 2 p.m. ET Saturday and 9 a.m. ET Sunday.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former President Clinton sat down this week for a wide-ranging interview with Christiane Amanpour, CNN's chief international correspondent.

...

"AMANPOUR: In one of your farewell interviews as president, you told an interviewer that one of your most difficult and challenging issues as president was Iraq. In retrospect, do you wish that you had mustered a large invasion force like President Bush? And if not, do you think the threat you faced from Iraq was any different than the one President Bush faced from Iraq?

CLINTON: The answer to the first question is no. I basically believe that the policy that I inherited, which was basically to keep Saddam Hussein in a box and under sanctions, unless and until he fully complied with the U.N. resolutions, was the right policy. It wasn't so great for the Iraqis, but he didn't present a substantial threat to anyone else.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/09/clinton/index...

another Clinton smear debunked..NEXT!

[polichick]

17. Are you saying he didn't support the war after Bush went into Iraq?

If my memory serves me right, he did come out in support.

[Tellurian]

20. The OP from TPM is mixing statements about BushI & BushII..

When Clinton was president, as he says in my link, he inherited Iraq from Bush. At that time, Congress was beating the War Drum insisting Clinton go to war with Iraq. President Clinton refused. President Clinton's assertion, "he opposed War with Iraq from the start" is in reference to his refusal to bow down to the Congressional Republicans demanding he go to War with Iraq during his tenure. When BC says, "he opposed the War from the start", he's talking about during his presidency.

[polichick]

23. Oh, I see...

I guess it would be more accurate for him to say, "I opposed the war AT the beginning" rather than "FROM the beginning" ~ but it wouldn't play as well.

[Tellurian]

30. Duly noted because someone jumped the shark and wound up getting bitten..

sharks are attracted to blood and guts..some call it "chum"..

[polichick]

31. I'm not sure what you mean...

All I can say is it does seem as if Bill Clinton is trying to put a better light on something that was a bit murkier in reality. Is that what you're talking about?

[Tellurian]

38. No, I don't think so..I blame the linked article ..wasn't made crystal clear in the article itself..

It was a cheap trick on their part.

[polichick]

39. In my view, both the article and Bill seem to be trying to trick folks...

No?

[Armstead]

78. Parsing -- the Clinton trademark

In 2004, when it was safe to be critical of Bush's invasion of Iraq, Clinton was somewhat critical. Forgetting, conveniently that he basically gave Bush his support in the build-up, as evidenced by his earlier quotes.

It would sure be nive to move beyond the stage of politics where we need a bag of tea leaves to figure out what our politicians are saying between the lines.

[AtomicKitten]

80. In the age of instant data recall, parsing just doesn't cut it anymore.

[babylonsister]

3. He 'resents'?? What stopped him from voicing his opinion?

I recall how silent he was for the longest time.

[geek tragedy]

11. He voiced his opinion--in favor of the war.

He's not a coward, just an unusually good liar.

[AtomicKitten]

4. * cough *

[geek tragedy]

8. I. did. not. have. peaceful. relations. with. that. war. n/t

[flpoljunkie]

10. LOL!

[TeamJordan23]

6. He is lying. Simple as that. nm

[LSparkle]

7. And he did it while wagging his finger and scowling, right?

[geek tragedy]

9. And biting his lip. n/t

[madfloridian]

12. No, he did not oppose it.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

[Cha]

45. Thanks, mad...I

knew I remembered being royally pissed at bc for carrying bushite's war water.

[beachmom]

13. Wow. Such an easily refutable lie. Bill is not as good as he used to be.

He used to know how to parse it better.

[doc03]

14. That's a F---ing lie. But really with all the

good news from the MSM coming out of Iraq about the surge and refugees returning to Iraq come next year it may be better to have supported the war. Of course I'm sure they can switch positions again if things change.

[lumpy]

65. Is Bill C. a fairweather politician ?

or just hanging around.

[Lucinda]

16. He's actually on the record cautioning against invasion Aug. 2002, and became more supportive later

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/08/31/clinton....

With faulty information, but cautioning against it.

[Alamom]

21. Thank you. nm

[wyldwolf]

48. that piece of info barely registered a blip

[Lucinda]

62. Yup. Not surprising though. :)

[Cameron27]

54. Thank you.

[ClarkUSA]

67. "Caution on action against Iraq" is not "being against the war from the beginning" imo

As a 2004 supporter of Clark and his 2002 HASC testimony and a fan of Paul Wellstone and Senator Bob Graham (both made great speeches before they voted
against IWR), I think I know the difference.

[Tom Rinaldo]

18. FWIW a number of Democrats like John Kerry

took the position that voting for the IWR was not the same as actually supporting the invasion of Iraq.

[geek tragedy]

19. It was bullshit that we were forced to swallow because

he was the nominee.

Let run on the truth in 2008.

[Tom Rinaldo]

24. I agree that the IWR vote was bullshit and politics driven

It sickens me still.

[Tellurian]

25. President Clinton IS telling the Truth..

an excerpt from wLucinda's Link:

2002

"Administration lawyers have concluded President Bush doesn't need congressional approval to launch an attack on Iraq, although White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said the president would consult Congress.

Fleischer did not say whether consultation would include a congressional vote approving military action, as was done before the Gulf War in 1991.

The former president said the U.S. military could easily win an attack on Iraq and displace its leader, Saddam Hussein, but he questioned whether it should be done.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/08/31/clinton....

The 15 min of fame is over for posting another "smear" on the Democratic Front Runner, Sen. Hillary Clinton.
The ONLY candidate that can beat the Republican attack machine at their own game...

NEXT!

[jenmito]

40. If he really WAS against it, why did Hillary vote FOR it with help from Bill in making the decision

? Either SHE lied or HE lied. NEXT!

[beachmom]

41. For what it's worth, Kerry spoke out agains the invasion of Iraq before

it started. That does not negate his erroneous vote for the IWR (which he freely says now was the biggest mistake of his Senate career, and I think he means that), but it shows that he was opposed to the war as it came about, starting with a unilateral attack without U.N. support, pulling out inspectors before their job was done.

I know of no statements opposed to the invasion of Iraq by the Clintons.

[karynnj]

29. Yes, but few other than John Kerry spoke out in fall 2002

and early 2003 - trying to push Bush to keep the promises he never meant and let the inspections finish and exhaust the diplomacy.

In fact, from where they were in early 2003, Bush would have had a huge victory by NOT going to war. Bill and Hillary Clinton had the biggest Democratic voices and they were silent. HRC also did not sign the Kerry letter to demand part 2 of the WMD study including the DSM. I would think that anyone who had their good name used - because they were lied to would have:

1) Spoken out when it was clear that he was going to war without doing what he said. (Note even then Kerry used the words that it was not a war of last resort - meaning it was not a just war.)

2) Signed that letter to get to the truth of what Bush knew when.

[Tom Rinaldo]

35. From the moment after that vote forward

I have no quarral with John Kerry's actions regarding Iraq, and much instead that I praise him for.

[Donna Zen]

22. Oh sure President Clinton

That's why when I saw you speak the night before the IWR vote, you began with telling the crowd that there was nothing we could do to stop it.

Should I laugh or puke on my shoes?

Let's see: Holbrooke and Albright wer in favor of this war too. Will they now pretend that they were actually marching against it, we just didn't notice them?

[BeyondGeography]

26. "I opposed Iraq--from the beginning of Hillary's presidential campaign."

That's from the comments section...too good not to rip off.

[Tellurian]

28. Just goes to show you, the "Win any way they can " attacks just aren't going to fly..

The difference is, Hillary supporters will take the time to debunk a "smear" rather then whine about it to the establishment. Isn't that the way it should be?

[killbotfactory]

27. Jesus, Bill...

Greenlighting the Iraq war was like a knife in the back, people won't forget your support of the war.

[jefferson_dem]

32. Slick Willie rides again.

Ughh... Can we be done with them yet?

[jenmito]

33. YES! Hillary claimed Bill helped her in her decision to vote FOR it!

I just told someone today that the more Bill campaigns for his wife the more the chance of him saying something (else) that the campaign would have to later "clarify." He's becoming more of a liability than an asset.

[BeyondGeography]

36. Old Dude has lost a step

[jenmito]

42. Yup. And just in time for Obama to win the nomination.

[Skip Intro]

34. Click the link, and then the next, you get one quote from Bill:

‘I supported the president when he asked for authority to stand up against weapons of mass destruction in Iraq..."

Now, this is about the hundreth time I've been around this track on Iraq. I hated Hillary for a while for supporting the IWR. I hated Kerry and Edwards too. But they all say now that they were misled as to the danger Iraq posed (bush lied to us and congress), and that the IWR was meant to force bush to first get UN cooperation, which he didn't, and second, to force a diplomatic solution - inspections, to the trumped up crisis.


This seems like a really thin attack on Bill Clinton.

[hayu_lol]

37. Actually the hate anything Clinton crowd is alive and well yet...

Around 96, 97, Clinton threw the PNACers out of the oval office as I recall.

Bill admitted one of his toughest problems was with Iraq.

Despite that, he did not wage an illegal war with Iraq--Saddam was contained and that seemed to answer most of the problems.

Bush went to the Congress and LIED. He said that he would work with the UN and Inspection team to resolve the situation. If this was impossible, after exhausting all other options, then he would go.

That is what our Congress approved of. At that time, our streets, streets around the world, were filling up with people opposed to Bush's intent to go to war.

Bush saw his window of opportunity going down in flames and invaded for what Wolfowitz(remember him?)called a cakewalk--a line that Rummy quickly picked up and waved gleefully around.

You guys want to rewrite history, go ahead. Some of us were alive and cogent at the time.

The Iraq war was not Bill or Hillary Clintons. Bill would never have gone.

[zulchzulu]

43. You mean the Not Fooled By The Clintons crowd

Perhaps nobody remembers how Clinton was integral in the No Fly Zone continuous bombing of Iraq in the 1990's. Over a million Iraqis died from that wonderful policy.

He was probably against that "from the start" too...

[TankLV]

85. Which was a good policy at the time...

Nice try at revisionist history...

[jenmito]

44. All of that is true about what happened...but that STILL doesn't explain why Hillary voted FOR the

IWR and said she did it with input from Bill!

[jefferson_dem]

46. You're right. They were misled.

That's where *judgment* comes in. Why should we risk any more misguided calculations by those who have demonstrated such poor judgment?

[Skip Intro]

47. Yes, why have people who can be misled when we can have someone who avoids tough votes.

[elizm]

83. Weak. nt

[Skip Intro]

84. iyho

[w4rma]

49. Bill made special trips out to talk to Blair specifically to convince Blair to help Bush on Iraq. nt

[IndianaGreen]

52. Bill Clinton has said that he believed Saddam had WMD, in defence of Bush

As David Geffen said, is not that the Clintons lie. It's that they do it with such ease.

[AzDar]

50. NO more Clintons. NO more Bushes...No more taking it in our tushes!

eom

[Lilith Velkor]

51. He's just getting warmed up for that First Gent gig

If Hilldog wins it, he's gonna have a *lot* of lying to do.

[Colobo]

53. Thanks for the flip-flop, Bill.

[Phunktified]

55. Bill Clinton DID oppose war

http://facts.hillaryhub.com/archive/?id=4406
On the eve of war with Iraq, former President Clinton said we should avoid war and seek a new U.N. resolution. Here's what he said in New York on March 14, 2003, less than a week before the war began:

Do you believe this matters? If you believe it matters—as I do—then you have to decide if it matters whether we bend over backwards to try to disarm him in a way that strengthens rather than divides the world community. If you don’t think it matters, then you’re with a lot of the people in the current administration who think that we’ll just go over there and this will take a few days, after we win—victors always get to write history—everybody will get over this and we’ll get everybody back together and they’ll be glad he’s gone because he’s a thug and a murderer. That’s what they think. If you believe it matters to keep them together, then you’ve got to support some version of what Prime Minister Blair’s doing now, which is to say, okay, he’s finally destroying his missiles. And the administration, to be fair, is nominally in favor of what Blair’s trying to do.

He’s finally destroying his missiles, so let’s give him a certain date in which, in this time, he has to destroy the missiles, reconcile the discrepancies in what we believe is the truth on chemical weapons, reconcile the discrepancies on biological weapons, reconcile the issue of the Drones, and offer up 150 scientists who can travel outside of Iraq with their families for interviews. If you do that, then we’ll say this is really good-faith disarmament, and we’ll go on without a conflict. Now if that passes, however, then you have to be willing to take yes for an answer. You see what I mean? I’m for regime change too, but there’s more than one way to do it. We don’t invade everybody whose regime we want to change. There’s more than one way to do this, but if that passes and he actually disarms, then we have to be willing to take it, and then work for regime change by supporting the opposition to Saddam Hussein within and outside Iraq, and doing other things.

[jefferson_dem]

56. Whew. I sure am glad Hillary's campaign can tell us Bill is right.

That settles it.

[wyldwolf]

59. "That settles it." Yeah, actually it does

a historic quote debunks what the OP has charged.

[SaveElmer]

72. You've given up on facts haven't you?

Sunk into the morass of anti-Hillary foolishness...you used to be above that a bit...always solid in your support of Obama...but not the fact denier you have become since...

[SOS]

76. More "anti-Hillary foolishness" from today's New York Times:

November 28, 2007
Bill Clinton Flatly Asserts He Opposed War at Start

By PATRICK HEALY
"During a campaign swing for his wife, former President Bill Clinton said flatly yesterday that he opposed the war in Iraq “from the beginning” — a statement that is more absolute than his comments before the invasion in March 2003.

Before the invasion, Mr. Clinton did not precisely declare that he opposed the war. A week before military action began, however, he did say that he preferred to give weapons inspections more time and that an invasion was not necessary to topple Saddam Hussein.

At the same time, he also spoke supportively about the 2002 Senate resolution that authorized military action against Iraq.

Advisers to Mr. Clinton said yesterday that he did oppose the war, but that it would have been inappropriate at the time for him, a former president, to oppose — in a direct, full-throated manner — the sitting president’s military decision."

more at link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/28/us/politics/28clinton...

[jenmito]

77. Funny how Hillary not only voted for the IWR and against the Levin-Reid amend., she said

she made her decision with help of input from her husband. I wonder what that input REALLY was. Probably something like, "Well, since you're going to be running for president, you have to look tough on foreign policy and if you vote against it, you'll be perceived as a 'weak woman.' So you better vote FOR it."

[sandnsea]

57. "I'm for regime change too"

And there lies the difference between the Clinton DLC Democrats, and the rest. The rest were not for regime change for the sake of regime change. The Clintons were. And they supported war to get there. The inspections were nothing more than a game to give them cover to invade.

[Colobo]

58. LOL @ HillaryHub!

[wyldwolf]

60. so did they invent the quote? I mean, honesty, can you dispute the quote?

If Hillaryhub posted 2+2=4, would you doubt it? Better yet, I challenge you to show anything from Hillaryhub that is not accurate.


Take the challenge?

[geek tragedy]

63. So, he favored voting for war and favored going to war, but

objected to the timing of the war.

Eight more years of this shit? No thanks.

[Armstead]

79. Exact.ly -- The whole notion of "timing" was bullshit

There was no fricking reason to invade Iraq. Period.

Even IF he had some kind of weapons development program, invasion was not the way to deal with it. If that were the solution, we would have set boots inside of North Korea years ago.

It was a trumped-up "crisis" by Bushco from the start, and anyone who didn't call it for the bullshit it was is culpable.

[ProSense]

61. "I have repeatedly defended President Bush against the left on Iraq..."

Clinton defends successor's push for war

Says Bush 'couldn't responsibly ignore' chance Iraq had WMDs

Wednesday, June 23, 2004 Posted: 7:55 AM EDT (1155 GMT)

(CNN) -- Former President Clinton has revealed that he continues to support President Bush's decision to go to war in Iraq but chastised the administration over the abuses at Abu Ghraib prison.

"I have repeatedly defended President Bush against the left on Iraq, even though I think he should have waited until the U.N. inspections were over," Clinton said in a Time magazine interview that will hit newsstands Monday, a day before the publication of his book "My Life."

Clinton, who was interviewed Thursday, said he did not believe that Bush went to war in Iraq over oil or for imperialist reasons but out of a genuine belief that large quantities of weapons of mass destruction remained unaccounted for.

Noting that Bush had to be "reeling" in the wake of the attacks of September 11, 2001, Clinton said Bush's first priority was to keep al Qaeda and other terrorist networks from obtaining "chemical and biological weapons or small amounts of fissile material."

more

Iraq withdrawal timetable would cut US leverage: Clinton

[geek tragedy]

70. What a two-faced phony bastard.

No more Clintons!!!

[lumpy]

64. Much as I like Bill Clinton for his presence, I finally realize he has

an astonishingly astronomical ego problem coupled with piss poor judgement.

[geek tragedy]

73. And truthiness issues.

Yeah, Bill, that was real nice. But you and Hillary should be going now.

[ClarkUSA]

66. Does Bill understand how easily he can be fact checked in the Age of Bloggers & Screaming Broadband?

This was not a smart move on his part and - if the media picks up on it (as they will and should) - will lead to increased public (read: Iowa) scrutiny on his wife's
IWR vote at a time when she is touting her foreign policy "experience" as the biggest reason to vote for her in these perilous times.

[karynnj]

69. Some of the articles even suggested that this comment

will not be appreciated by HRC's team as it does create problems for her.

The fact is that unlike Gore, or the lesser known Dean and Kerry, he did not unequivocally say that war was not warranted. From the NYT article it says - but provides no link or quote - that he preferred to let the weapons inspectors have move time. But, his June, 2004 quote used to support his claim is curious as it implies that that he would have attacked AFTER the inspectors finished - where every other Democrat remotely labeled as anti-war hoped the inspections and diplomacy could avoid the war.

"Before the invasion, Mr. Clinton did not precisely declare that he opposed the war. A week before military action began, however, he did say that he preferred to give weapons inspections more time and that an invasion was not necessary to topple Saddam Hussein.

At the same time, he also spoke supportively about the 2002 Senate resolution that authorized military action against Iraq.

Advisers to Mr. Clinton said yesterday that he did oppose the war, but that it would have been inappropriate at the time for him, a former president, to oppose — in a direct, full-throated manner — the sitting president’s military decision.

Mr. Clinton has said several times since the war began that he would not have attacked Iraq in the manner that President Bush had done. As early as June 2004, he said, “I would not have done it until after Hans Blix finished the job,” referring to the weapons inspections there before the war."

(mid 2004, on his book tour, is NOT early in speaking out against the war. What he did was TRIANGULATE, though there were more pro-war comments than anti-war comments.

[obamian]

68. And Mark Penn said Obama was equivocating??????

[geek tragedy]

71. Bill came down firmly on

all seven sides of the Iraq issue.

[blm]

74. And what was he advising TONY BLAIR and Dem lawmakers at the time?

To support BUSH on terrorism and Iraq war decisions.

[Nedsdag]

75. Whatever, Bill

What.ever!

[surfermaw]

81. I think he is telling the truth, even if I am for Edwards

He refused to go into Iraq, when a few weeks after he took office the republicans sent him a letter asking him to go into Iraq, however he did the right thing as to keeping Saddam at bay by bombing the heck out of him when he thought he needed it. Enough in fact that Saddam got rid of any thing of mass destruction, even the chemical and germ war fare sold to him by the Reagan and Bush Administration.

[jenmito]

82. Was he against Bush Jr.'s war from the beginning? And if so, why did Hillary vote FOR the IWR,

against more deplomacy in the form of the Levin/Reid amendment, and claim she made her vote based, in part, due to advice from her husband?