"I'm thinking about Ron Paul" as a running mate - Kucinich

[stuartrida]

If Kucinich wins nomination, Ron Paul could be his veep
Posted by Sabrina Eaton and Stephen Koff November 25, 2007 19:03PM

Acworth, New Hampshire -- Call it the liberal-libertarian ticket, where left meets right and Democrat Dennis Kucinich picks Republican Ron Paul to be his vice president.

Kucinich, the Cleveland congressman running in a longshot bid to become president, suggested it himself today.

"I'm thinking about Ron Paul" as a running mate, Kucinich told a crowd of about 70 supporters at a house party here, one of numerous stops throughout New Hampshire over the Thanksgiving weekend. A Kucinich-Paul administration could bring people together "to balance the energies in this country," Kucinich said.

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2007/11/if_kucinich_wins_nomination_ro.html

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Sorry, but that's just nuts.

[Hieronymus]

97. It's certainly changed the way I feel about Kucinich. Ron Paul disagrees

with Kucinich on everything except Iraq.

[leaninglib]

121. It does say something about American politics when the only two candidates

who are actually telling the truth don't have a snowball's chance in hell.

However, what it says is not very good.

[Didereaux]

2. Dennys' been tokin' with Shirley again! n/t

[GOPNotForMe]

3. So Kucinich really is crazy. nt

[fenriswolf]

4. The Headline is misleading

"However, Ron wants to substantially cut the size and scope of the federal government. There are too many differences on issues such as taxes and spending to think a joint ticket would be possible."

HeHe they are friends but it would never happen because kucinich doesn't like ron's politics

[ben_meyers]

9. But that quote is from Ron's guy,

Not Dennis. Sounds to me that Dr. Paul isn't too crazy about the idea.

[cali]

67. dishonest much?

that's from Paul's campaign, and you know it. Distortion such as that reflects directly on your veracity. poorly.

[gateley]

5. Oh, dear. I know there are some Kucinich supporters here who will be deeply

disappointed to hear that.

But before you totally despair, note he said "thinking about" it - and, Paul doesn't seem too enthusiastic at this time.

I have to confess I really thought this was Elizabeth Kucinich's take on it and that it probably didn't accurately reflect Dennis's stance.

[gateley]

6. SELF DELETE - Dupe

[Vickers]

7. "If Kucinich wins nomination"

"If" being the operative word.

[Democrats_win]

8. Ron Paul is a racist. Looking at his ad in the Boulder Weekly, I realized this.

He had those old racist code words: freedom of association type comments.

Democrats know what you are, Ron Paul.

On the positive side, we don't need to consider Kucinich any more.

[Colobo]

13. Paul is loved by white supremacists for a reason.

[Recursion]

10. I think the point is that what those 2 agree on is a winning platform with a lot of people

If you take out guns, abortion, social security, and taxes, they agree on:

1. Ending the war
2. Ending imperialistic use of force as a means of policy
3. Working against corporate-managed global exploitative trade
4. Working against the unfettered power of pharma and insurance companies
5. Undoing the PATRIOT act and other threats to civil liberties

Those are their core agreements and are probably enough to build a left/right coalition on. This may not be the year, but we'll have to see how both sets of primaries shake out.

I will also gratuitously repeat my prediction that 2008 is going to be a realigning year like 1968, 1932, and 1896 after which the old party labels and old notions of what is "liberal" and "conservative" may not make much sense.

[yellowcanine]

16. "If you take out guns, abortion, social security, and taxes...." No shit - and actually not true

either. Does Kucinich want to eliminate the Federal Reserve System and put the U.S. back on the gold standard? Ron Paul does.

Does Kucinich agree with the following statements from Ron Paul's website?

"Individuals, businesses, localities, and states must be free to negotiate environmental standards."

"Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals."

"End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong."

There are lots more but you get the point. Unless Kucinich is not the person he says he is, he doesn't have a whole lot in common with Ron Paul.

[Recursion]

20. OK, add immigration

I think Kucinich does agree that the Fed system as it is is broken; I'll see if I can find links to that effect. So the third-rail issues for this hypothetical coalition are guns, abortion, taxes, immigration, and social security. But these replace the current party system's third rails of oil dependence, corporate involvement in government, and imperialistic use of military power.

Tough call on if that's a good trade or not. Still, I think there's the making of something there, in 2012 if not 2008.

[yellowcanine]

24. And environment. Damn near everything except the war. That is hardly a coalition in the making.

[Recursion]

31. If you say it's "everything but the war" you're missing their main agreement

Their main point of agreement is:

corporations have colluded with government to secure more state and corporate power at the expense of individuals.

They both see that, they both want to stop it. Whatever you may think, there is a coalition there.

[Alexander]

40. You are dead wrong. Ron Paul would be very pro-corporate.

"They both see that, they both want to stop it."

You are seriously delusional if you think Ron Paul has any interest in stopping corporate power.

Seek help. For your own sake.

[yellowcanine]

44. Exactly. He wants corporations to be able to NEGOTIATE environmental regulations.

That is not a progressive position at all and anyone who goes along with that is not a progressive.

[Alexander]

47. Some people are really blind single-issue voters...

Or they have an agenda they don't want to reveal to most of DU.

[yardwork]

90. The environment is a lot more than a "single issue." Get real.

[Recursion]

55. They already DO negotiate, for that matter write, regulations

His premise (which I don't agree with, but I don't like seeing misrepresented) is to use torts to compensate property owners when environmental damage occurs. He complains right now that big corporations have too much influence on the writing of environmental regulations. And he charges correctly (IMO) that in many cases the end result of these regulations is not to help the environment but to harm smaller competitors.

[Recursion]

53. Why do you think he's not other than a knee-jerk reaction to the word "libertarian"?

Do you know much about his platform? Why is he busy, in your opinion, lying about the need to rein in corporate power?

Ron Paul is the only person calling himself a libertarian I have ever heard talking about corporations being too powerful and needing to have their perks and self-written competition-killing colluded fake-regulations undone.

If you throw Paul in with the rest of the libertarians, you miss this very important distinction. And I suppose, if you do that, Kucinich's comment becomes incomprehensible to you, which seems to be where most of DU is at.

I don't support Ron Paul. But from what I can tell most of DU doesn't even know what he stands for.

[yellowcanine]

77. The quote I took was directly off his website. I don't agree that corporations should be able to

negotiate environmental regulations - It should be public policy based on the science. And yes, with Bush they have had that power. That is not a reason to continue it. And where anyone say he was lying about anything? Please do not presume to tell others what their opinions are. It is not a legitimate debating tactic and will quickly lead to you talking to yourself, as why waste time debating someone who already knows what you think?

[cali]

68. amen.

anyone defending paul on the grounds that he's anti-corporate, is seriously delusional.

[Renew Deal]

80. I don't see what's wrong with the environment comment.

:shrug:

There have been instances where the federal government has tried to override tougher local standards. Also, people are more protective of their own communities.

[polichick]

11. They would have a better shot if they went Indie asap...

As it is, Kucinich and Paul have about an equal chance of being nominated by their respective parties.

(But which would it be ~ K/P or P/K??)

[Colobo]

12. I have never taken Dennis too seriously.

This doesn't help.

[flvegan]

32. You must somewhat.

Posting bullshit on this board and editing your OP after posts are made in response. Not that we can see it after the nuke.

Fucking suspicious.

Obama must really be tanking.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

14. I won't believe until Dennis says it himself! Oh, wait... never mind.

[Colobo]

15. Hehehehehe...

[Ian David]

17. It sounds like Kucinich has stopped taking his campaign seriously.

Either that, or he's done something so smart... that to the rest of us mere mortals it seems profoundly stupid.

[Zorra]

18. No. Republicans. Ever again. n/t

[inthebrain]

19. Here's a lesson in deciphering bullshit and sloppy reporting

First off, this comes from a blog. Blogs tend to get it wrong more often than and is another vehicle papers use to push storys they are not sure about.

Secondly, whenever you see quotation like this "I'm thinking about Ron Paul" and the writer finished it off like this; as a running mate.

Chances are it's bullshit.

[skipos]

21. I can't wait to see the Kucinich supporters spin this one

Kucinich is already low on my 08 list, but this Ron Paul VP idea is horribly unintelligent.

[Recursion]

26. I think the problem is people don't know much about either

They see "Kucinich is really liberal" and think "he must be good". Then they see "Paul is very conservative" and think "he must be bad". The fact is their worldviews have a lot in common in that they reject the assume-corporations-are-good worldview that runs the mainstreams of both parties and the media.

Frankly, if people are surprised that Paul and Kucinich see eye-to-eye on some very, very fundamental and important issues, and that they are the only two representatives who seem to see things that way, then they probably don't know very much about both or either of them.

[skipos]

48. I have already read your pro-Paul posts, and I agree with very little of it.

You don't need to post anymore about it to me.

[Recursion]

57. I AM NOT PRO-PAUL. Get over it.

I am anti-"people ignoring what Paul is really about and pretending the electorate wouldn't like it". I'm also anti- people not looking past the war issue to see that his agreement with Kucinich goes a lot deeper than that.

[cali]

69. you clog up thread after thread with your passionate defense of Paul

and your misinterpretation of his positions. You are the ignorant one. And you're constantly making excuses for Paul. Maybe people wouldn't think you're supporting Paul if you didn't do so much spamming for him.

[Alexander]

50. Yes, people like YOU know next to nothing about people like Ron Paul.

For example, that he hasn't returned money given to him by the KKK, or that he has made racist statements about black people before.

Or maybe you do know these things and choose to support him anyway?

[Recursion]

56. I certainly don't support Paul

It just drives me bonkers to see DUers miss the entire point of his platform and the real threat he represents.

[Hippo_Tron]

64. He represents a return to the Gilded Age

Paul is not an anti-interventionist he's an isolationist who wants to shrink the government's role domestically and overseas back to what it was in the 1890's.

Besides the fact that the Gilded Age was even worse for the working class than the current regime, it would be a complete disaster to try and have a government designed for the Gilded Age try to govern in the age of Globalization.

Yes I agree with Ron Paul that we should pull out of Iraq. I do not agree with him that we should pull out of the UN and end basically all of our commitments overseas. Such a view comes from those who are naive enough to believe that the what happens overseas does not affect the United States. Despite what Ron Paul may say, the United States has a serious role to play in world affairs.

[Renew Deal]

82. Did you bother to read Skipos comment?

Or was this a mistake?

[AtomicKitten]

22. Meh.

[GeneCosta]

23. I'll take Kucinich and Paul over the 3 front-runners

At least they can promise global security and peace.

Go ahead. Chew me out.

[ChiciB1]

116. Only Thing I Will Say To You Is This... You Need To Check Out Everything

Ron Paul is espousing, maybe you might think twice!

[ecstatic]

25. Whoa! This is worse than the McClurkin flap

So Kucinich wants a white supremacist to be second in command? wTF? He just lost my support and respect.

[Colobo]

27. Don't tell that to Kuchinites

they'll jump all over you.

[yardwork]

89. Since you aren't a supporter of Kucinich (which you misspelled, typically)

you don't speak as one. Like other Kucinich supporters, I don't agree with him on this. If he's serious, he just lost my vote.

[Recursion]

28. See, calling Paul a "white supremacist" is pointless...

First off, it's simply not true. White supremacists support him, but that doesn't make him one. Communists might support Kucinich (I know some who do) but that doesn't make him a communist. His immigration policies are exclusionary but I don't see him tying them to race or country of origin like many people do.

Secondly, I think it's fair to say basically nobody on this board is going to support Ron Paul. So simply patting each other on the back and saying he's a white supremacist lets the actual traction Paul is getting (largely the same traction Perot got 15 years ago which gave us the White House) fly completely under our radar. People who support Paul are 99.9999% not white supremacists and don't see any white supremacy in his platform (mostly because there isn't any). And, per usual, our party will turn a deaf ear to what people are actually saying...

[Colobo]

30. If a candidate is being supported by white supremacists

there is something wrong with that candidate.

[Recursion]

33. A broken clock is right twice a day?

They're probably supporting him because he wants to basically end immigration, period.

[cali]

70. Baloney.

go to stormfront and you can see why they're supporting him. they draw hope from his past racist comments, as well as the immigration thing. Furthermore, Paul has happily taken money from the owner of stormfront, and refused to return it, or say one word about how he finds these people despicable. For fuck's sake, David Duke supports Paul. All Paul has to say is that he rejects support from neonazis. he hasn't.

[Recursion]

86. All good reasons not to support Paul

None of them confirming DU's fantasy that he is a corporate shill.

[dpbrown]

29. Just lost all my support, if that's true...

There is little worse for this country, or for the possibility of accomplishing the things Dennis said he stood for in 2004, than a Libertarian.

The Libertarian "no rules" philosophy leads directly to rule by corporations, which the last time I looked was the textbook definition of fascism.

Sorry Dennis. That idea's just nuts.

[Jim Sagle]

34. The elf turns out to be an empty costume.

[robcon]

35. Kucinich is an asshole.

like Paul. They deserve each other.

[TheUniverse]

71. How is kucinich an asshole?

He is one of the few remaining progressives in power who fights for the people, and you're calling him an asshole? Why?

[flvegan]

36. I'll take Kucinich/Paul over Hillary/Murdoch any day.

Split ticket worked damn well for Lincoln. At least my Constitution isn't handed over to corporate interests.

Kucinich and a dem congress would keep Paul's lunacy in check. The veep office won't be like the Cheney playground it is now.

[cali]

102. isn't it fortunate then that you'll never have to make that choice?

Clinton isn't going to run with Murdoch as her running mate, and Dennis is much too good a dem to run third party; he won't be getting the dem nomination, either.

[Chulanowa]

37. Ugh. I'm hoping there's a lot of missing context

Sorry, Dennis, you're a great guy... But Ron Paul is a psycho motherfucker who shouldn't serve as a county dogcatcher.

[GeneCosta]

38. I find this subject absolutely hilarious

It shows me where some of your priorities are.

Calling Ron Paul a white supremacist shows a lack of character. The only shred of evidence you have of that is something written 20 years, which the good doctor denounced as the work of his staff member. The support he has from white nationalists means what exactly? Are you going to judge Hillary and Obama by all the reactionary supporters they have? Mike Gravel went to speak to a group of white nationalists. Does that make him a racist?

It's also stunning to see the main focal point of this election: the WAR which has killed close to a million and which has ended the lives of even our own, is less important than partisan bickering. The ideology defines the party, not the other way around. Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich are the ONLY candidates who have come straight out and said they will end the war as soon as possible . Obama, Clinton, and Edwards have all shown themselves uninterested in the prospect of eliminating the military-industrial complex. They may talk it down in one sentence and in the next go off about Pakistan, Iran, or "supplementary troops" in Iraq.

No.

No to the war. No to Iran. No to high level bureaucrats.


- Your humble anarcho-communist.

[cali]

104. my priorities aren't so narrow in scope that

I'd consider someone who wants to throw women back 35 years. They aren't so narrow that the environment becomes unimportant. For me, climate change is just as pressing as the Iraq war.

Single issue voters are the most pathetic of creatures.

[Rowdyboy]

39. Thus ends the pathetic political career of Dennis Kucinich....very sad

[flvegan]

41. Read something.

If you believe what you posted, you should try it.

[Alexander]

49. By "something" do you mean Ron Paul propaganda?

Because that's the impression I come away with after reading your posts.

[flvegan]

51. Do tell

and be damn specific.

I'll wait...

[Rowdyboy]

62. Read something? What the hell would you have me read? Explain this bullshit....

if you can...

[GeneCosta]

42. I have no hope for the party if a peace candidate

Aligning himself with another peace candidate on the opposite side is the end of his political aspirations.

Peace first.

A Kucinich/Paul ticket would promise that. I can't say the same of top tier on either side.

[Alexander]

45. Paul is not a "peace candidate". He wanted a declaration of WAR on Iraq.

That little nuance is the only reason he's "against" the war. If Congress bothered to formally declare war, Paul would have been its biggest cheerleader.

[dantyrant]

52. What are you talking about?

You think his anti-war rhetoric is all about process?

[Recursion]

58. Umm.. he voted against his own declaration of war

He said "We shouldn't invade Iraq. But if we do, we need to declare war."

And it bugs me that for simply clarifying what he actually stands for I'm constantly accused of being "pro-Paul".

[Tarc]

98. Not even close

Paul did that for the same reason that Rangel proposed a bill to reinstate the draft.

[Alexander]

43. Well, it came from Dennis's own mouth this time.

I have been a huge fan of Dennis for years, but I find this appalling.

While I agree with him on a lot of issues, if he seriously thinks a VP Paul would help the country (setting aside the possibility of assassination), he deserves to have 70 supporters and no more.

[inthebrain]

54. Look at the quotes in this articles

This is NOT straight from Kucinich's mouth.

[LoZoccolo]

91. Now do I have permission to not support Dennis? n/t

[Lilith Velkor]

95. Yes

Dennis shot off both his feet with this one. Fuck him.

[stuartrida]

99. HELL YES.

[hyphenate]

46. Well, I can't say that

endears me to Kucinich much. I know John Kerry thought about John McCain in 2004, and that appalled me then--picking Edwards was a more wise choice. Even considering a puke for the VP is ludicrous right now to me--and I'm sure I'm not alone.

[incapsulated]

59. Fuck him, then

He just made himself a joke to me.

[Downtown Hound]

60. Okay, after defending Kucinich the other night when his wife said this

and telling people they were overreacting, let me just say this:

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU DENNIS?

[MrsT]

61. This is very disappointing.

It is nice that Ron Paul is against the war in Iraq, but he is terrible on about everything else.

[Desertrose]

63. Don't believe anything the Plain Dealer writes about Kucinich....

Been a longtime "thing" between them. They never have anything nice to say about Dennis.


I cannot imagine any way that these two could ever be running mates....seriously....they may agree about the war but there is so MUCH more they see very differently.



This is just another way to eliminate Dennis' support.....last time it was "he's not electable". Now with so much increased support - he won the freaking DU race, people, but now suddenly this nonsense is being floated. Seems pretty obvious to me what is really going on.....

[riqster]

73. Remember how they trashed him during Muny?

The Pain Feeler is not friendly to progressives, never has been.

[MuseRider]

81. I so hope you are right.

I am waiting to hear it, without the odd quotes, from his site or a source that has not been fighting and demeaning him for years.

I can't see the two of them together, not at all. It makes no sense to me. If, however, it is true and he is thinking about it I am outta here. It kills me to say that but I will never vote or support anything with Ron Paul as part of it. A heartbeat away from the presidency, nope I can't do it.

Waiting........

[DemBones DemBones]

94. That's true. The Cleveland press has never liked Kucinich.

"A prophet is not without honor save in his own land."

[robcon]

65. The idea that his wife spoke out of turn is debunked.

Kucinich would really consider Paul as a running mate?

Thankfully DK doesn't have a chance to reach 5% in any primary.

[Perry Logan]

66. I must be dreaming. Somebody pinch me.

[hayu_lol]

72. For those who still think DeNial is a river...

Dennis's statement about Ron Paul was announced on ABC news at 3am over KGO San Francisco.

I don't think he even spent any time thinking about it.

Paul is not just a Libertarian, he has been a Liberty Libertarian...an offshoot of the Libertarian Party.

Many of us don't exactly know what Dennis is. I wonder if he knows?

[Nictuku]

74. You don't know that Dennis is a Democrat?

... interesting.

[Marrah_G]

75. Did he really say that?

If so then he is clearly insane and we've had quite enough insanity in the WH for one lifetime. Good thing he doesn't stand a shot in hell of getting the nomination.

[goodhue]

76. Presumably Dennis was joking

[stuartrida]

96. Do you really believe that?

And Elizabeth was joking? Or lying?

[rucky]

78. Dennis was campaigning as if he had nothing to lose.

and I admired that.


Now he's campaigning as if he had nothing to gain.

[Renew Deal]

79. What about the other way around?

Would Kucinich do it?

[Renew Deal]

83. Kucinich's wife thinks it's a good idea too

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=71666&mesg_id=71666

[auburngrad82]

84. So everyone is willing to sell their souls to get out of Iraq NOW?

Iraq is important but there are many important issues at stake and Ron Paul is against pretty much all of them, ie abortion, gay rights, upholding the Constitution, etc. So people, including Kucinich, are willing to throw in the towel on everything that matters except Iraq? Eventually Iraq will end but the decisions the next administration makes will have a long lasting effect on millions of people.

I can understand Libertarians backing Paul but not Kucinich or so-called Liberals.

This has the feel of the Right Wingers who would back Satan to outlaw abortion...

[KingFlorez]

85. That is crazy

What sort of Democrat would even think about putting Ron Paul on the ticket?

[yardwork]

87. Dennis, that's not funny. Now I may have to vote for Biden.

Honestly.

[stuartrida]

88. That Kucinich fans are in denial is good news

The fact that so many are claiming that Elizabeth and The Plain Dealer are lying leads me to believe that very few Kucinich support the Ron Paul as VP idea. No progressive should support that guy.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

92. NO FRIGGIN' WAY!...the dude is a rethuglican and a rascist no mattter his Iraq war stance....

i believe the only reason he voted against the Iraq invasion was because he wanted us to just NUKE them...said it would be the cheaper way to deal with them

[asdjrocky]

93. The fool.

I'm so sorry. I like DK. Hell, I've sent money to him campaign, no more. What is wrong with this man? How in the hell could he consider someone like Ron Paul for a running mate? Sad and sick. I have no room for racists and lunatics, we have one of those in the white house now. Too, too bad.

DK was number three for me, now it's Biden.

[OzarkDem]

100. Plain Dealer editors are close friends of Karl Rove

This story has the stench of Rove wafting about it.

[stuartrida]

101. Read my post in the your Dennis apology thread. Rove doesn't give 2 shits about Dennis.

[OzarkDem]

105. Its about the resolution to impeach Cheney

The PD/GOP and Rove care very much about Kucinich's efforts to impeach Cheney and the growing support its gaining among the public and Congress.

To them, the best way to defuse the situation is to marginalize and ridicule Kucinich. He's dealt with this kind of thing from them before.

Pee Dee editorial staff and political reporters are disgraceful.

[stuartrida]

106. Republicans like debating the impeachment stuff

since they no it is going nowhere, and it gives them the opportunity to paint Democrats as kooks. They didn't it before, and they would probably like to do it again.

[OzarkDem]

114. No, they don't

Because it's hurting everyone in their party. Given the numerous GOP scandals and convictions for bribery, etc. they're very unpopular with the public. Impeachment talk about Cheney only adds fuel to the fire, so to speak.

Good for Dems, not so good for the GOP.

[stuartrida]

118. You must have missed this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/07/washington/07cheney.html?ref=us

[LoZoccolo]

107. I would even think that Rove likes Dennis.

One candidate trashes all the others and then says he will not commit to supporting the nominee? I would welcome the spread of splinterism if I were Rove.

[stuartrida]

110. Republicans supported Nader for the same reason.

Rove would prefer to have Dennis in the spotlight if anything.

[mtnsnake]

103. Once again all the sheep fall for the part that isn't in quotation marks

without taking into consideration that Dennis Kucinich didn't say "I'm thinking of Ron Paul as a running mate". He said, "I'm thinking of Ron Paul", and you should know by now that when the reporter's question which precipitated the response isn't even quoted in the article, then it's most likely totally out of context.

Maybe the reporter asked Dennis, "Do you know of any Republicans who feel the same way you do about the war?"

Funny how the relevant parts are always left out of these bogus articles. Look at the first two paragraphs of the article and ask yourself why the author only has certain parts of his implications in quotes.

[stuartrida]

108. And what about Elizabeth? Is she lying or talking out of her ass?

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stuartrida]

111. Dude,

I don't even hate Dennis Kucinich. I like his voting records but do not like him as an executive. I am extrememly bothered by the fact that according to his wife and a local newspaper, he is considering running with a Republican. Sorry you can't handle discussing that.

[mtnsnake]

112. Doesn't matter. DK didn't say "as a running mate" or it would've been in quotes, too

Both this article and the article posted about Elizabeth only had parts of their "headlines" in quotation marks. Both authors connected part of something the Kuciniches said with a message of their own and ran it as if it were one and the same. Where I come from, that's called dirty politics.

[stuartrida]

113. You didn't watch the video of Elizabeth, did you?

Since you refer to it as "an article" it seems like you are talking about something you haven't researched. Where I come from, that is called dirty politics.

[OzarkDem]

115. Who was that reporter, BTW?

Where did that question come from?

[Bake]

117. Not to worry. It's not gonna happen.

Neither one of them has a snowball's chance in Hell. So try not to get too worked up over it.

Bake

[autorank]

119. Outside the box...why not. Shake 'em up Dennis. n/t K*R

[ileus]

120. What about a Dennis / Ron third party ticket.