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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:49 PM
Original message
Clinton campaign's response to Obamas statement on Novak hit piece...

"Once again Senator Obama is echoing Republican talking points, this time from Bob Novak. This is how Republicans work. A Republican leaning journalist runs a blind item designed to set Democrats against one another. Experienced Democrats see this for what it is. Others get distracted and thrown off their games. Voters should be concerned about the readiness of any Democrat inexperienced enough to fall for this. There is only one campaign in this race that has actually engaged in the very practice that Senator Obama is decrying, and it's his. We have no idea what Mr. Novak's item is about and reject it totally. Instead of pointing fingers at us, Senator Obama should get back to the issues and focus on what this election is really about."



Democrats again fall for a rw disinformation campaign...



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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. Mark penn at work again trying to spin his own corruption to his advantage.nice touch.
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. And your proof is where?
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Martk Penns website for one.He is proud of these tactics.I suggest you read about him WP Below
A Few Degrees of Separation From Hillary Clinton's Top Adviser

By Jeffrey H. Birnbaum
Tuesday, February 20, 2007; Page A11

Mark J. Penn is a man who wears many hats: high-paid political and corporate pollster, chief executive of an international communications and lobbying company, and chief strategist to New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's bid for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Enough connections for you?

Well, there are more. Penn's firm, Burson-Marsteller Worldwide -- with 2,000 employees and $300 million a year in revenue -- owns BKSH & Associates, the major lobbying firm chaired by Charles R. Black Jr. That's right, Black, counselor to Republican presidents, reports to Clinton's top strategist. ...

Full story link
***************************************************


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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Connections to what? Where is the
connection to the Novak story? Clue: There isn't one.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I said these were the "tactic's of Penn.And they are.
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. LOL! So you're not accusing Clinton
of putting this vile story out there? Right.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. PWNED
DSB
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Personally? No.I said it appears to be the 'tactic's of Penn. She should be
ashamed to be associated with such a person but she approves of him apparently!
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. No,this is what you said:
"Mark penn at work again trying to spin his own corruption to his advantage.nice touch."
That seems like a pretty cut and dried accusation to me.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. What I meant is his campaign statement is accusing others of what he is probably doing and that is m...
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 02:34 PM by saracat
OPINION.i AM SURE PENN FORMULATED THIS CAMPAIGN RESPONSE.iT IS AFTER ALL HIS JOB WITH THE CAMPAIGN! tHAT IS WHAT I REFER TO.sORRY MY CAP KEY STUCK.I AM NOT SHOUTING BUT I DON'T WANT TO RETYPE.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #37
50. Wasn't Penn's statement...
You might want to stop digging...
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. Maybe not.I said "sounded like".he probably contributed it
Mark Penn is chief strategist after all.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. Your tactics are pretty scary
Accusations without proof?

Whaaaaa? Are you fucking shitting me?
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #28
38. She Would Have Been Right At Home In Stalinist Russia
Proof... She doesn't need no stinken proof...
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. I have posted "proof" and where to find it on countless threads.
Some never accept "proof" All I am saying is that Mark Penn is a corrupt enabler of the corporate system with dirty political tactics.And his own website proves it.All I said was the Clinton campaign rebuttal was probably written by Penn.The FACT is Mark Penn is Hillary's chief adviser.That is a FACT.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. That's Not Proof... That's Libel
In my best Joseph Welch voice "Have you no sense of decency, maam, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency? "
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. Decency? Take that up with Mark Penn. How is it libelous to indicate her cheif advisor may have
written her campaign rebuttal?
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. That's Not What You Said Five Minutes Ago
(Mark penn at work again trying to spin his own corruption) to his advantage.nice touch

-saracat...

The assertion embodied in your premise is that Mark Penn was involved in the original smear...
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #54
62. That is exactly what I wrote.And I was responding to what was the campaign rebuttal which smacks
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 03:12 PM by saracat
of his touch.Sounds like the Clinton Camp is attempting to accuse the accuser.That is the point.Believe as you wish.You always do anyway.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Obama Slimed The Hill By Falsely Accusing Her Of Sliming Him On A Rumor From A GOP Operative
What part of that don't you understand?
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. What part of Mark Penn wrote the campaign response don't you get?
And I really don't care what Obama says and as Hillary has a lot of GOP operatives working for her.(See WP article on Penn posted elsewhere,) I could care less what either campaign states about that.Any campign that has Mark penn working for them has very little room to talk about anyone else.It is true that two wrongs don't make a right but hiring Penn puts a campaign in that a position to be questioned and suspect.It is exactly like hiring Rove.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. You blew it...
You made an accusation for which you had no proof...and are trying to back out of it without admitting so...and making further insinuations for which you also have no proof...

Your hole is getting deeper...
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
68. Obama and his minions look really naive - again.
Ultra Experienced Bob Novak played Amzingly Inexperienced Barack Obama, and beat him like a dusty rug.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm loving this. It's like watching the Yankees and Canadiens beating the crap out of each other.
A win win!
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. rofl
:D
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
42. Somebody Said I Was Immature For Comparing This To A Boxing Match
It's like watching the Celtics and the Lakers in the late eighties...
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. Yep, lots of run and gun, some layups and slam dunks, and personal fouls.
:)

And I think a boxing match is a fine analogy.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #47
56. Is Hillary Bird And Obama Magic?
Riley could be Mark Penn... He has a devious side...
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Nah, neither of them are that good.
:evilgrin:

I think the Riley/Penn thing is spot on though.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. The Celtics Won The Lottery
Pierce, Allen, and The Big Ticket...

Odds on favorite to win The East...
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. OUCH!!
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. I put Novak and Wolfson on the same level.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Then you don't know enough about Novak...
Wolfson can be an insufferable boor...but he has done nothing that puts him on Novak's level...you should do some research before saying things so patently wrong...
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I hate Wolfie. I hate Novak.
I hate them both.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
6. Does this mean Team Clinton now rejects planting stories with all Republican-leaning
journalists? Or is Matt Drudge still Tracy Sefl's best friend?
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. LOL! Good one.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. And yet another amateur Obama mistake...
He's been running for what...a year now...you'd think he would learn...
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:07 PM
Original message
Amateur mistake, if it is a mistake is better than the professional corruption
of Mark Penn. No candidate of integrity would allow him a central campaign role.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. And you've been shilling for Hill for a year
you'd think you'd know who Tracy Sefl, aka VP of Drudge Love Development, Team Clinton, is by now.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Obama/Novak '08
Keep reminding everyone of yet another Obama blunder...

Maybe we can get Hillary to 60%
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. See, you've got nothing
that's because the picture becomes more clear every day: Your in-it-to-win-it girl is playing if-you-can't-beat-them-join-them this time around.

From the Rupert Murdoch fundraiser to the Drudge Love development agent to planting leaks with Novak, they aren't going to freeze out the RW media this time around. No siree.

And, for her, so far it's working! You and your girl must be so excited! Forgive us if we don't share your sense of joy.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Keep going...
I see 61%...
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
46. I don't see what Sefl and Drudge
have to do with Novak and Obama? Obama didn't plant any stories. He hasn't been accused of planting stories.

Hillary wants better coverage from the right wing media. Why shouldn't she? It would be different if you could point out some falsehoods or smears she planted with Drudge.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
10. While the empty suit and the empty pantsuit babble it out on Trivial Pursuit,
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 02:04 PM by Jim Sagle
the REAL Dem makes hay. :beer:
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bigdarryl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
13. Sorry to say this but i believe the Clintons think they do have something on Obama thats how they ..
operate Obama is doing the right thing by responding quickly and making the Clinton campign put up or shut up.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
14. Hillary is a liar! I put my trust in the man who outed Valerie Plame
At least as long as he happens to be validating my emotional prejudices.
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bigdarryl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. thats what i am looking at Novak unfortunately is pretty reliable
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. Thank You For Representing Your Fellow Obama Supporters So Well
bigdarryl (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-17-07 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. thats what i am looking at Novak unfortunately is pretty reliable
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
31. I remember during the first months of Iraq
when the WMDs weren't turning up there was pressure on the Democrats to go after Bush for lying. Novak took part in a conspiracy to make Democrats fear that if they went after Bush for lying the WMDs would be later found and the Democrats would look foolish. Novak posted "insider" columns about WMD being already found. Novak said it was a big secret that would come out later.

All the freepers believed it.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
36. but, then again, you're the poster who likes Drudge...
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
51. that pretty much sums it up n/t
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
20. It was silly of Obama to take Novak's word at face value.
His inexperience shows.
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Texas_Kat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
33. It sorta does point out that Obama has never faced the RW smear machine
He's never personally experienced the crap that gets thrown in a really nasty campaign against the RW smear machine. I think this was really a trial ballon on behalf of the Repubs by Novak to see what Obama's reaction would be. An attempt to see how he would respond to innuendo.

They found out what they wanted to. Obama's overreacted -- just like they hoped.


:eyes:
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #33
49. His Amateurishness Would Doom Us In The General Election
DSB
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Texas_Kat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. Likely
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 02:46 PM by Texas_Kat
Candidates can't have a glass jaw and beat the Republicans.... I think his response illustrates his inability to appreciate why we've had to fight them 'since the 60's'.

I hope he learns a little from this. I hate ANY Democrat being vulnerable to Republican tactics.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #49
61. Its not worth the risk nt
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
24. Obama asked for a response
He got one. Why the whining? The response was right on the mark, except I don't know what they are referring to when they say the Obama campaign engaged in this practice.

I like Obama and hope he goes back to his own campaign and doesn't get mixed up again with right wing tricks.

Oh, and Mark Penn has nothing to do with this.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
69. Referring to the fact that an Obama high level staff person -
has been lobbying the press to look into Bill Clinton's behavior (indiscretions) since he left W.H.

The push from Obama's camp apparently carries an indication that they have info about Bill but won't release it - they want the press to find it. Just a bunch of blah, blah, blah by both camps.
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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
25. She should have stuck to attack Novak instead of smearing Obama.
"There is only one campaign in this race that has actually engaged in the very practice that Senator Obama is decrying, and it's his."

That was untrue and unecesarry. She had a chance to have taken the higher ground.

This is an unfortunate incident and response from both campaigns.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. Of course it is true...
This very incident proves it...

In his zeal to get out from under the charge that he has gone negative...he tries to smear Hillary by associating her with a Robert Novak hit piece...

pathetic and amateurish

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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. I believe it's about 20 year 'Bill and Hill' deal
Obams's HQ is on the record with that. It's stupid, stupid stuff. It makes them look like a poor imitation of a campaign.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Yeah...another example...
It just boggles my mind that he is doing this...
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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. Clinton behaved poorly by untruthfully smearing Obama in her response. nt
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Weird...your response to my response...
Is to repeat your original statement nearly verbatim...

good one...
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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. The responses from both campaigns were far less than stellar, to say the least. nt
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #45
60. Obfuscation...
Obama smears

Hillary responds

They are both equally to blame...a meme the MSM uses all the time...

Obama made an unjustified accusation...trying to make her responsible for a Novak hit piece, and got called on it...Obama is the one smearing here...

And I daresay had the roles been reversed, Obama would be praised to the heavens for defending himself...


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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #60
67. Hillary made a false accusation against Obama.
They both sullied themselves.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #40
58. Huh-- Obama Went And Bear False Witness Against The Hill
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 03:28 PM by DemocratSinceBirth
Last I checked it was a violation of The Ten Commandments... I don't remember which one...
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
35. The 'smear' is a reference to the 20 year Bill and Hill deal
Its very much on the record now as being from Obama's HQ. It is vehemently (as in beyond ultra) being denied by the Clinton camp. All this stuff does no one any good.
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CnAnPB Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
66. Which *Democratic* Candidate stands to gain the most?
From all of this 'smearing' ?
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MzShellG Donating Member (835 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
70. Perhaps unbeknowing to us....
Obama was aware of the whispering campaign against him by the Clintonistas before Novakula announced. We dont really know, do we? Why wouldn't he respond unless he knows something that we dont. They've done that to him before with the muslim issue. That kind of thing turned me away from HRC.
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hijinx87 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
71. the smart response to this on obama's part

was probably to just pick up the phone and call hillary. freaking
out over a novak column seems creepy and amateurish.
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
72. Once again, Obama proves he is inexperienced and ill-prepared to be president...
the office of the President is no place for on-the-job training. * is proof of that.

:kick: and recommend.
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