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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:13 AM
Original message
What is hilarious about all the "debate crowd was rigged" posts...
Is that there is a DU'er here, who was actually at the debate, who is most definitely NOT a Hillary supporter...and is saying all these conspiracy theories are complete and utter crap...over and over again...

And people who watched the debate from behind their keyboard, or on TV...are arguing with him like they know more about it...

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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. And there's another DUer who was there who says
that the audience was stacked with Hillary supporters. So it's six of one and a half-dozen of the other.

People will believe whichever one they want to believe.
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Ninga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I believe that the "insider gets special treatment" is part of each and every campaign.
Therefore, the story is plausible because it happens in some shape or form at each and every important political event.

What is not believable is that it was a neutral crowd.....the party big wigs would not let that crowd be neutral....no way.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Go back to the beginning of the debate
When the candidates were introduced, listen to the crowd response. especially for obama and hillary and get back to me on how over represented she was in a state where she runs as high as 53%

I am not saying that party big wigs don't get tickets first but I also think you haven't got a clue about the disorganized state of the Nevada dem party. These guys are not Machiavellian by any stretch of the imagination.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
25. Because it couldn't possibly be --
--that the audience merely reflected the fact the majority of Nevada Democrats are for Hillary.
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Ninga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
4.  self delete
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 12:19 AM by Ninga
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Who?
Not that being a DU'er makes you special or anything but I would love to discuss it with this person.

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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
28. Anyone could tell it was stacked with Clinton supporters
They only booed Obama and Edwards--the candidates who are in a dead heat with Hillary in Iowa.

My Lord, Hillary could go on live TV, chop up an endangered animal and drink its blood, and her supporters here would STILL be convinced that she didn't do anything worthy of criticism.
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #28
45. The journalists at the debate believed the boos were in response
to negative attacks. When Edwards and Obama didn't attack, they weren't booed.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. Tell me about it.
But you know if Hillary was boo'ed instead of cheered, these same folks would be having block parties thinking Hillary is toast.

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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. I know I would!
I dont want hillary as my nominee but this wishfull thinking is driving me batty. Maybe if I had only watched it on TV I would feel diferently.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. Or if their candidate had been cheered. Go figure.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
6. Lollable, but informative: it's the way one can learn on the DU that Hillary won.
Our Girl's playing The Winning Card, and it's just eating the nimrods up! :toast:
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
9. THE HILARIOUS THING IS HOW FUCKING STUPID THIS THING HAS BECOME ON DU
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 12:27 AM by Gman
PEOPLE THAT ALLEGEDLY ARE CONSIDERABLY MORE INTELLIGENT COLLECTIVELY THAN THE GARDEN VARIETY REPUBLIC HAVE BECOME INFECTED IN THE CURRENT EPIDEMIC OF BEING FUCKING STUPID.
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Ninga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. It is sad.
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Snarkturian Clone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
50. you said it- spot on NT
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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
10. The People Who Watched The Debate On TV Would Have a Better angle.
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 12:28 AM by nightrider767
If something is skewed, it's done with the magic of television. So home viewers would see it, not the people in the audience.

But if that was the case, I didn't see it. The overdone booing in the beginning was out of place to support the theorists.

But the horrible side shots, showing Hillary in an unflattering manner where certainly there.

Let's just all agree that CNN throws crappy debates and move on.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Actually I thought it was a good debate...despite CNN's efforts...
Really, get past the political angle...alot of good substantive answers on issues last night...
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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. I got so sick of Wolf interrupting
Just when some of the candidates where reaching the apex of their answer, Wolf would chime in about "time", and throw the whole thing off. They should have had a better system than that.

But I agree, the debate did have many good points..
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Yeah he was annoying...though after little Timmy...a bit of a relief...
Not much though
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
47. Of course it was!
Why give all the candidates equal time?

A Pygmalion debate where CNN just throws more questions at celebrity candidates and who leads in the polls is clearly the way to go. And Wolfy should definitely take more time to interrupt and get face time, he is sooo cool.

A debate giving Kucinich, Richardson, and Biden equal time would be such a drag. Besides who wants to hear from any of them anyhow. I personally would love it if we could just have a poll decide the election today or we could jsut decide by who gets the most cheerleaders, or who is able to get the most 60 second spots on prime time.

I am really too busy to have to look at issues anyhow. After all does it really matter which Democrat is elected? Aren't they all the same?

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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Oh yeah!
And when they do ask those other candidatees- you know the ones people don't talk about on teevee as much, I think they should definitely ask them silly or embarassing questions that have nothing to do with politics or any issue.

For that matter, could we just spend at least half the debates asking meaningless questions about a persons personal spiritual choices or UFO's or maybe even meaningless 'character questions'?
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
14. At the end of the day, I am supporting the nominee.
Too much is at stake to allow another RethugliKAN in the Whitehouse.
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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Great Point!
I'll second that.
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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
16. I think it was obvious that a large number of the crowd....
...started booing even before Obama or Edwards would hardly begin their arguements! They were not reacting to anything dumb that Obama or Edwards said, because they hadn't even said anything yet! They were reacting because it was obvious they were gonna say something against Hillary.

I say this as someone who is agonizing at how far we have come in this country away from real debates. One of the rules that most debates follow...which was not even attempted to be enforced this week....is that the audience be quiet during candidates' answers.

This week's debate demonstrated why this rule is a good one. I saw parts of the debate today a second time. It is obvious that at least once, both Obama and Edwards were not only interrupted by the audience but you could tell it distracted them from the points they were about to make. Is it asking too much for in a debate format that the dynamic involved would be between the candidates instead of the audience or the moderator showing favoritism or influencing the outcome?

I was also disappointed in Wolf as "moderator". Pathetic.

I have no idea how the audience was selected. I have attended debates where tickets were required to get in and an equal amount of tickets were distribute to all sides. I have the distinct feeling that this policy was not followed this week.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Each campaign was given an equal number of tickets...
Most of the rest were given to the state Democratic parties...Hillary is polling at about 53% in Nevada...according to the DU'er her who was at the debate, that was about representative of the crowd.

Now if you want to admonish people in the crowd for boorishness you might possibly have a point...hardly demonstrates a conspiracy to stack the audience...

I watched the debate...Obama, Edwards, and Kucinich were loudly cheered on several occasions...

This conspiracy strikes me as just another way for those supporting candidates other that Hillary to avoid having to deal with the fact that outside this little bubble, she is quite popular...
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countmyvote4real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. These are pageants. We haven't had true debates for years.
The pageant metaphor is not an original thought. I don't recall where I first stumbled across it. Most likely it was here at DU.

Anyway, I think it sums it up.
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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #18
31. I did not say anything about a conspiracy
My point was that the audience at times influenced the debate.

Yes, all the candidates were applauded at times. Well, duh, they had supporters in the audience.

What I am talking about was the booers in the audience who booed even before Obama or Edwards hardly began their statements (which prooves that they were not reacting to what the candidate said because they hadn't said it yet!). This was partisan and un called for in a debate format. You didn't see the Obama supporters in the audience or the Edwards supporters or the Biden supporters in the audience doing that, I might add. It was the Hillary supporters. Why is that? Also, there was no attempt, not even a cursory attempt, to try to admonish the audience to hold their responses until the candidates were through making their points.

Why is it that the Hillary supporters booed to interrupt when the supporters of the other candidates (equal number of tickets, remember...) didn't participate in such boorish behavior? Does this say anything about the supporters?
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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
19. One person who is completely contradicted by others who were there
and the factual evidence that has been posted in many posts.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. No fact has been presented...
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 12:41 AM by SaveElmer
Shadowy inside information from people "in the know"...more conspiracy crap from people who simply don't like the way the race, or last nights debate went...and the ridiculous expectation that in a state where Hillary polls 53% among Democrats somehow the audience was going to be evenly divided...

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Texas_Kat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. "others?"
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 12:47 AM by Texas_Kat
One poster from Kos who shit on Dina Titus in the same post.... The Kos poster is NOT a reliable source.
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TheWebHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
24. it doesn't take a stacked audience
It takes a coached audience to get them to react more boisterously than the others. I would guess Hillary's handlers instructed their supporters to hiss when Obama or Edwards critiqued her record and cheer like they were filming an infomercial on Hillary's points, learning from the prior debates it had some negative impact on her.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:28 AM
Response to Original message
26. I even offered to hand out paper towels for the the that had egg on their faces
I guess some people just don't mind looking like this.

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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
27. As Edwards has said, each of us has the responsibility to
listen to the candidates and watch them and decide for ourselves which one we trust the most, which one we want to support. What happens in the debates is only important in so far as the candidates show us whether we can trust them. Each of us has to think for him- or herself. Personally, I think that Wolf Blitzer was extremely rude and unprofessional during the debate. That we all agree on. But then so was Tim Russert in Philadelphia. So, we have to look beyond the MSM as we usually do on DU. Frankly, if we took our lead from the MSM we wouldn't be on DU. So, check out the candidates' websites and then make up your own mind. Then campaign for your candidate on your own. Don't let anyone dissuade you.
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:40 AM
Response to Original message
29. when jeffrey toobin started to say yesterday on the situation room that all the people at the debate
were genuine, honest, hillary supporters ...... stubble beard wolf cut-off him, told him he was running out of time and then proceeded to give jack cafferty a few more minutes to talk about what the pronunciation of nevada is. No one could guess that stubble bear wolf was censoring the truth coming out of jeffrey toobin's mouth, oh no. he could never guess that because he would never do that. (he thinks he is some sort of socratic gadfly and he couldn't be so much farther from the truth).
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
30. Thanks for clearing this up. The anti-Hillary folks are certainly poor losers, aren't they?
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 07:08 AM by Perry Logan
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. They Obviously Never Participated In Team Sports As Youngters
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 08:21 AM by DemocratSinceBirth
They would have learned how to win (and) lose graciously...
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. The protestations have reached the puke level for me. nt
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. Imagine If We Whined About Tim Russert's Crucifying Of Hillary
She kicked Obama's and specifically Edwards' asses... It is what it is...

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CarolNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
33. I didn't see the debate but...
from a number of posts by a number of posters here at DU (and I don't mean those posts saying "Hillary rocked" and "Edwards sucked") it certainly seems as if Clinton did pretty darn well and Edwards extraordinarily poorly. Not quite sure about Obama.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. I Like Your Two Heroes Avatar
People are upset here because Hillary Clinton took Obama's and Edwards' head off and are looking for all kinds of excuses... It's really poor sportsmanship...
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CarolNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. Thanks....
My Congressman and my choice for President (too bad he's not running :().

The reaction to the debate on here by a certain some would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.....Poor sportsmanship indeed.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. Do You Live In Harlem?
I haven't been there since I was a little kid when we used to drive by it on my way to see my grandma who who lived on the Lower East Side...
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CarolNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #40
52. A little above Harlem...
Washington Heights....still in Charlie's District though....

One of my very favorite events of Clark's '03 campaign was Charlie's official endorsement of Wes on a rainy weekday morning in Harlem...Lots of fun. Charlie's a gem.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
36. What's hilarious is watching folks on DU defend CNN
and their intent to help choose our candidate for us. Again.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. As Opposed To MSNBC Which Tried To Take Hillary Clinton's Intestines Out
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 09:08 AM by DemocratSinceBirth
And has a self professed Hillary Hater as their mascot:


"In other words, 'I'm not going to get enough credit for this,' " Matthews told a colleague in the cafeteria of MSNBC headquarters in North Jersey. "Madonna won't get flowers brought to her. I hate her. I hate her. All that she stands for."

http://www.dailyhowler.com/
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. Suggesting one idiot on a competing channel compares with skewing a natl debate
is a little weak. It sticks with the script, but it's weak.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Did you not see the last "debate" with attack-dog-russert?
That was no debate. It was part of the media's continuing attempt to take down Clinton.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. The Whole MSNBC Debate Was Orchestrated To Bring Hillary Down
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 10:16 AM by DemocratSinceBirth
And nothing about me is remotely weak...

I'll leave out the moniker I was going to apply to the person who suggested me or my retort was weak because I'm in a pacific mood, for now...
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Indeed.
See the spin from my derision of CNN to "oh yeah, well MSNBC did this..." doesn't change anything. I put nothing past either outlet of the msm, while folks defend them.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #43
51. Wouldn't that mean it's possible that CNN did just the opposite?
If you accept one channel has a bias why not another?

Of course, I think this all a bunch of nothing, but that's just me.I think the media's biggest bias isn't towards one candidate or the other as much as it's a bias for a bloodletting.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #43
53. Self-delete.
Edited on Sat Nov-17-07 07:34 PM by Donald Ian Rankin
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
46. I've read some far fetched excuses
Some say the polls are all part of a corporate conspiracy to install Hillary. There's always an excuse.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
49. 43% of DUers believe that the DLC fed the tape of the Dean scream to the media.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-18-07 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
54. don't you mean hillaryous? nt
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