The loud heckler was not a hillary supporter.

[Egnever]

At last nights debate there was a moment when obama was speaking near the begining of the debate where a guy in the crowd was heard heckling.

I am not a hillary supporter, but neither was this guy. I know it was hard to hear on TV but the guy was yealling out why dont you let the other 5 candidates speak!

I was at the debate and sort of close to this guy when he had his little tirade and I heard him quite clearly.

Please stop with the paid hillary hecklers line because it just is not the case. This guy in fact didnt even want to hear from hillary. He wanted more atention given to the other people on the stage besides hillary and Obama.

I hope that its just here on DU where this garbage is being repeated cause if the MSM is pushing this meme its completely dishonest.

I dont want hillary as our nominee but this line of paid hillary supporters in the crowd is just not true.

[leftofthedial]

1. her planted civilian questioners were not a factor last night

but don't forget she and the Clinton four-more-years-of-the-same-oligarchical-rule machine also owns the planted professional questioners.

[Egnever]

8. Oh I havent lost sight of the fact

That she is the choice of the corporations or that her machine is so entrenched that it has its hands in almost any story spwewed out about her.

I just dont like the idea of du pushing this line that this guy was a hillary supporter when he clearly wasnt and in fact didnt really want to hear from her at all.

[John Q. Citizen]

14. As an anybody but Hill person and as a Kucinich supporter, I appreciate your

attempt to get the facts out there.

We should be able to dump Hill based on the lack of merit on her platform, and not on disinformation.

Reminds me of the Clinton years, when the Repos pissed me off for attacking Bill for all the wrong reasons, and none of the right reasons.

[guruoo]

47. She planted questioners?

Where did you hear this?
I know she's been accused of "planting" questions,
but I haven't heard anyone accuse her of planting questioners.

[Alamom]

2. Thank you for the information. nm

[Texas_Kat]

3. Thanks for the first hand account

"Spinning" isn't just an activity that the MSM engages in -- the grassroots engages in it almost as often.

It's refreshing when eye....er... ear-witnesses post the truth.

[hijinx87]

4. how dare you sound so sane and reasonable!

especially as it may regard the multiple hillary sabotage efforts
that she so clearly has underway.

I am deeply shocked by this dreaded resort to common sense.

[JohnnyLib2]

5. Thank you!

Now, let's see how you are treated....

[ronnykmarshall]

23. Probably like shit if I know this place.

[Adelante]

6. Bless you, Egnever

Another bright shiny object shot down. Thank you.

I have a question about the later booing. I heard Obama briefly booed when he referred to Republicans and then cheered on his Social Security remarks. I'm very confused about what actually happened, because others seem to be saying he was just booed. What did you hear in the room?

[Egnever]

13. Honestly I would have to look at the specific clip to remember

There were several instances though where candidates were booed and in most cases it was due to the crowd not wanting to hear infighting between them. The crowd was very against attack politics last night but in almost every case last night after the initial boo's against the attacking they were rewarded with agreement after the points were made.

It was really sort of strange to watch actually. The crowd was definitely not there to hear the candidates fight, but were very open to listening to what all of the candidates said. I saw a lot of head nodding for all the candidates as well as a lot of disagreement on specific issues from people who appeared to support the candidate they were disagreeing with at the time.

It was very heartening actually as it really seemed as though the crowd was weighing what each candidate said for the most part with very few blind followers at least in my immediate vicinity in the crowd.

[Adelante]

20. That actually sounds terrific

An independently minded audience.

[ronnykmarshall]

25. How did you get tickets?

They're having a debate in L.A. soon and I'd love to go.

Oh wait. Maybe I better not.

I'll be branded as a "plant" by the mob around here.

[Egnever]

29. I am friends with someone

with a high position in the dem party here. They ended up having access to a couple of extras and were kind enough to throw them my way.

[ronnykmarshall]

32. Good job!

I wish I had a connection here in L.A.

Damn! Who the hell am I gonna have to blow ...... I mean KNOW to get my paws on a ticket?

[guruoo]

48. LOL!

[mtnsnake]

7. Thanks for setting the record straight

It's amazing how so many of Hillary's naysayers will lie through their teeth to take her down.

[hijinx87]

11. eh. Egnever is just the head implant.

he is in charge of the deception.

(the implant thing still just cracks me up)

[Egnever]

17. Don't be confused

I don't want hillary as our nominee, but I don't want blatant deception to be how we avoid that.

So you can put me firmly in the hillary naysayer camp, and hopefully do away with the generalizations.

[mtnsnake]

53. That's why I said "so many"

and not "all".

[JDPriestly]

9. Wolf Blitzer ran a pro-Hillary event.

If you listen carefully to the portion of the debate at www.johnedwards.com livedebateblog, in the tape one in which Edwards states that no candidates on the stage are perfect, WOLF BLITZER ACTUALLY INTERRUPTS TO SAY AW COME ON NOW, INTERJECTING HIS OWN PUT-DOWN TO PUT EDWARDS IN HIS PLACE. I have never seen a debate moderator do such an obviously biased thing. That was not a debate at all. That was a put down of Edwards (and possibly other candidates). And then if you go to the CNN website to watch the debate tape, the first tape you get is a tape with that fat Republican lady (you know, the one who has a pig-face) talking about how Hillary recovered in this debate. The debate was a set-up for Hillary. There is no question about it. The Democratic Party should issue an objection to Wolf BLitz er and CNN about their unprofessional handling of this debate. It was shameful.

[FrenchieCat]

10. The media is already playing the "stacked audience" card...

as of this morning on MSNBC.

I say if Hillary is polling in the majority in Nevada, then the audience might have been representative of those polling results....which is logical. To insinuate that she deliberately stacked the audience (this is what was said on that station) is far reaching and doesn't back up the logic I've just stated.

When the Corporate media and DU agrees, you know that there is an agenda that doesn't necessarily include the truth.

[BrklynLiberal]

12. How does the Dem party keep letting that dimwit Blitzer be the moderator for these debates?

He is such a total schmuck. It is such an embarrassment to have him involved in this!

[BenDavid]

15. It is silly to read on here all the folks still

having to comment on the "planted" question issue.Where were you all when Jeff Gerket, aka Jeff Gannon was there asking bush easy softball and planted questions. This issue should not have died after 2 days. This is still a major story if a "liberal press" reporter were to investigate this. How did this man get into the White House using another name. WHo was this man visiting in the White House when there were no press briefings? This is a story full of plots and sub plots.

So lets put to rest the "planted question" issue.

Ben David

[frylock]

26. where were you all when Jeff Gerket, aka Jeff Gannon was there asking bush..

where the hell were you? a lot of people were pissed off about that. you seem to be in the camp that believes if shithead did it, then it's perfectly acceptable for others as well. that dog don't hunt.

[bvar22]

60. You are "mis remembering".

Search the archives for "Gannon".

This was a BIG issue here. IIRC, there were several orgnized campaigns to notify Media for exposure, AND organized contact campaigns to protest the Media ignoring the issue.

[JAbuchan08]

67. Yeah, there was no criticism of Guckert on DU - none at all -

in fact we were all thrilled that a gay prostitute had turned himself into a presstitute - such an uplifting example to gay people. See, if you hate yourself enough you CAN succeed!
:Sarcasam: I don't think you know what you are talking about.

[MuseRider]

16. Thank you

I was hoping you would report back and that you would mention the guy. I was watching on TV and that is what I thought I heard at the time and sat here nodding my head in agreement. I am glad to know I was not hearing things.

Really, these kinds of fights bother me because they have nothing at all to do with the substance of the policies. They do reflect character to some extent but I think this is how many play the game so they do not see it as anything unusual. I may hate it and others may as well but I bet none of them think twice about planting questions or having a cheering squad. Too bad but to many it is nothing more than a game and the winning is the only thing that matters to them.

[Cameron27]

18. Thank you so much Egnever,

for shining some light on the usual ---> predictable sour grapes, tied to the predictable tin-foil theories, tied to the predictable Clinton-hate. MSNBC is on it's predictable rant too.

[hijinx87]

24. hillary shot my dog last night.

and she burned my house down.

or maybe it was one of her implants. the vicious boobs!

[Auntie Bush]

65. The ones with all that cleavage?

[xiamiam]

19. please explain why there were so many in the crowd who were her obvious supporters and booed

the other candidates..i didnt hear any of them booing her..from my tv perspective..it seemed very off balance..

[ronnykmarshall]

27. Good god.

He clears up some bullshit story and still the foot stomping and temper tantrums still fly.

See "Doo Bee" sig line.

[xiamiam]

34. please read his answer..looks like you needed to know someone to get a ticket..gheezh

[ronnykmarshall]

38. I'll let Egnever address this.

[xiamiam]

39. he did ...just read his answer ...nt

[Egnever]

40. Tickets were hard to get

And the way of getting them was not widely known. You had to submit your name to a list and I believe names were drawn at random. Having said that about the only way you would have known this would be to be connected in some way to the dem party here.

I got mine through knowing someone. Or really I should say I got on the list through knowing someone. I had to submit my social security number birthdate name address and email. I wasn't contacted with how to get in till the day before.

Now Once again let me say that hillary has a lot of support here in the upper dem echelons. And I don't think its a stretch at all to see that reflected in the crowd last night.

However that in no way translates to paid hillary shills or trying to spike the crowd. Hell my friend inside the dem party is a big hillary supporter and is aware that I am not yet I still got tickets.

Also there seemed to be a large block of tickets that were given to UNLV to dish out as they saw fit. In fact the Dem party seats were actually on the edges of the venue while the UNLV tickets were in the middle sections.

Take it for what you will but I really don't believe for a second there was any intention crowd spiking going on.

[sandnsea]

41. Most crowd are told to be quiet

and not respond until the end of the debate. I do not for one minute believe people just spontaneously decided to boo Edwards, you can say it as many times as you like. People just aren't like that.

You've laid it out clearly. The NV Dem Party had control of the tickets, they support Hillary. They decided to shut down any attacks on her, whether you will ever be privy to that information or not. The End.

[Egnever]

44. If you go back and watch the begining of the debate

I think you will clearly see where they encouraged the crowd to participate. I dont know if that part actually made TV or not but I know for a fact that before the debate started they were totaly encouraging crowd response as they wanted a "lively" debate.

Look you may not like what you saw last night but it was not staged or purposely wieghted. The crowd responses at the start of the debate to the candidates as they came onstage almost doirectly reflected the polling numbers here currently in vegas.

I dont like that hillary has so much support here either but she does. We are just barely turning blue now though so does it really suprise you?

[sandnsea]

49. Well that's even more suspicious

I'm not buying it. CNN does nothing but suck up to Hillary for hours, then, astonishingly, they call for a rowdy debate with a pro-Hillary crowd booing any attack on her - but never the attacks on anybody else. No, not a setup at all. :eyes:

Seriously glad the party is building some momentum.

[Egnever]

51. I am not saying CNN didnt have an agenda

They clearly did. But I dont for a second believe there were hillary plants there to disrupt the debate.

There were boos for everything that apeared to be attacking another candidate. Hillary was just better at making her attacks appear to be a defense.

[sandnsea]

56. Another take

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/16/32040/765

It is what it is, that's all.

[Egnever]

57. Well its an interesting take

And one I cant really argue with other to say I didn't have the same experience with the people surrounding me.

Having said that I do believe the higher ups in the party here have decided on hillary.

I keep going back to the crowd response though as each candidate came onstage and to my ears the reaction followed the polls here fairly closely.

As far as her rants against Dina are concerned. Well Dina is a very hard working dem. She may have lost against the puke machine here in her bid for governor but I personally believe anyone with an axe to grind against Dina isn't paying attention to Dina's hard work agree with her or don't.

Also I notice other posts from this person seem to point to her being a solid Obama supporter. So take it with a grain of salt.

The dem party here is undergoing some growing pains to be sure. I think its is getting better though. I will have a much better feeling after the caucus though. I am supposed to go to a training session here tomorrow so we will see how that goes.

[Egnever]

28. There definitely was a majority of hillary supporters in the crowd

I am not in any way trying to deny that. I don't think there is anything sinister behind that though. There just happens to be a lot of support for hillary here in nevada at least in Las Vegas

I wish it were otherwise but it just is.

Having said that part of the reason there was so much hillary support I believe is because tickets were very difficult to get. I got mine purely because I happen to be friends with a high up dem mucky muck here.

The official dem party here is very strange and really up until the last couple of years very small and disorganized for the most part.

Hell i went to the state dem party convention in 2003 and I would be surprised if there were more than 40 people there and only one elected official even bothered to show up.

It has come a long way in the last couple of years, in fact theres actually a headquarters here in vegas now that has a staff of probably at least 40.

Last run the dem party leaders here had chosen kerry and at the caucus it was totally obvious from the fact that kerry was allowed to campaign outside the caucus to the room that was was initially intended for the caucus meeting room being plastered with Kerry banners and almost no one elses.

I still have a lot of distrust for the dem party here based on that caucus. However because the "dem party" leadership here seems to be on the same page regarding which candidate they seem to be rooting for that doesn't necessarily mean the deck was stacked for hillary. it just happens that a lot of the people that are involved enough to have access to those tickets are in the hillary camp for one reason or another. Outside the hall the Obama support was far larger than hillaries.

In fact the obama ground team here is very aggressive I have gotten a call a week from them and only one from hillary's camp so far and none from anyone else. It will be interesting to see if Obamas team can get those people to the caucus.

I cant wait to see what happens.

[xiamiam]

33. thank you..i just didnt see it as reflective of legitimate sentiment so your explanation makes sense

[RaleighNCDUer]

42. The boos came when the other candidates attacked her.

OTOH, I heard no boos when she attacked the other candidates.

Curious, that.

IT WAS NOT ABOUT INFIGHTING.

Someone up thread was talking about how you get tickets - knowing someone who knows someone. Well, that would indicate that the Clinton machine was best at getting tickets out there because so much of the DLC and Democratic establishment is backing her. It would make sense, then, that her supporters would predominate in the audience. She is clearly the CNN candidate, plus with her own supporters distributing tickets, how could it be otherwise?

[Egnever]

50. I wouldn't argue with you there.

However I don't think her support was disproportional. listen to the crowd reaction when they all came on stage one by one. I think it pretty well reflects the polling in nevada at the moment. As much as I don't like it hillary is leading the polls here at the moment.

I got my tickets cause I know someone. Thats not how everyone got them. However I don't think unless you were active in the dem party you would have any idea of how you went about getting them. I was in line with a woman who applied with her husband and she got a ticket and he didn't.

Having said that I do believe that a majority of the dem leadership here in this state are supporting hillary. That doesn't mean I believe they are purposely trying to torpedo the other candidates. I don't.

It was just a pretty accurate reflection of The lkas vegas area support of the candidates at the moment and while hillaries support was strongest to be sure Obamas was not far behind inside and outside his crowd was much larger. I think that is attributable though to his much more aggressive ground campaign here.

Hillary is courting the powers that be Obama is courting the man on the street. I received at least 4 calls this week from the obama camp asking me to come demonstrate for him outside the hall and none from any other candidate despite being signed up as a supporter with all of them.

How this will play out come caucus time will be interesting to see. I do know that not having a clear favorite in the race at this point will make the Caucus very fun for me this time around I hope to be able to do some serious horse trading :)

[rhett o rick]

63. Attacked is too strong. They questioned her commitments. And she did the same. But the boo's and

cheers were clearly in her favor.

[ronnykmarshall]

21. Thanks ...

psst! pssst! (whispering in ear) *Your check from the Hill-camp will be in the mail today.*

I KID! I KID!

Just be prepared to be called a "paid Hil-bot".

[Egnever]

30. I think my sig pretty much inocuates me from that

But thanks for the check!

[durrrty libby]

22. Thanks for the first hand account. I enjoyed the audience

It gave the debate a little life

[BootinUp]

31. I don't believe you are not a Hil Shill

:sarcasm:

Thanks for the report. :)

[sandnsea]

35. What about the Edwards booers

That's not the only incident that happened last night.

[Egnever]

37. Again from my perspective

The crowd just wasn't interested in infighting. And Edwards appeared on the attack. I don't think it had anything to do with who was attacking who the crowd just groaned every time anything appearing as an attack was made by anyone including the moderators.

[emilyg]

36. Thank you.

[Catherine Vincent]

43. Thanks for the report.

Edwards and Obama supporters, take note.

[Egnever]

45. Please dont use my post to bash other candidates suporters

I am firmly not in the hillary camp. I just want the record straight on that guy. I dont like lies against any of our candidates.

[Catherine Vincent]

46. That wasn't a bash.

I simply asked them to take note.

[Bongo Prophet]

52. Thanks for the "on the ground" report, Egnever - so he was heckling CNN

This is entirely separate from the booing thing, and I don't know if the two issues are getting conflated as I can't handle too many of those threads.

Wolfie and company did a crap job, and their push to make the "top" candidates fight, while leaving out the others is irritating at best. It was generally a rowdy crowd, and I had the thought they were serving free drinks and making sidebets at this Vegas event. :)

While agreeing with the sentiment of the heckler, it was impossible to hear clearly, but you confirmed my guess that it was against the moderators for not moderating. It never crossed my mind that it was paid supporters, just someone frustrated at the weird media game.

So, could you tell if the booing was happening in isolated areas or scattered throughout? Was it the same area(s) when they booed Edwards AND Obama or a different crowd? It must have been cool to have seen this one live, to get a better feel of the crowd. ( I have no idea if they were candidate specific or CNN or GOP or what, so just asking as general interest.)

Again, thanks for the "DUer on the ground in Vegas" report!

[Egnever]

55. My pleasure

The booing from my perspective seemed to be genuine and was sprinkled throughout the crowd.

in fact there were boos from seats around me. Cnn Encouraged response from the crowd before the debate began, I was somewhat surprised by this actually as i expected to be told to be quiet.

The loud heckler though was definitely railing against the two candidate show. He was shouting "why don't you let the other 5 speak over and over".

It was very strange to watch live actually. watching the other candidates standing there waiting to be called on was in a way quite disheartening. I was closest to joe and at times you could tell it was everything he could do to keep from twiddling his thumbs.

The crowd was very excited though. This was a first for us here in las vegas and I think the majority of the crowd was just very pleased at the chance to be there. I think that is part of the reason Howard got such a huge ovation. people Know that he is largely responsible for Nevada getting the attention it is this year.

I think after seeing and hearing the crowd last night that Howard's decision to put us early has done an amazing amount of good when it comes to getting Dem's out here involved and can only be good for us come time for the general.

[Bongo Prophet]

59. That is SO good to hear about Howard. If we can take Nevada next year, what a great thing!

The 50 state strategy is paying off in many ways, it seems.
There is new energy out there, and we are ready to kick some GOP ass.
To do this, we will be fighting the media clowns as well.
THAT was certainly reinforced by last night's gameshow.

I think the booing is at least as much against negativity among dems as against any particular candidate OR plants of any candidate, but I am not sure. Maybe I am unusual in this, but it is easy for me to admit I don't know things when that is the case.

In 04, the candidates were pretty diplomatic with each other, focusing on Bush and pointing out differences from the Bush regime.
Because of the non-incumbent nature of this year, that is less the case. I hope, though, that we can tie the Bush/Cheney/neocon agenda around the ENTIRE GOP to the greatest extent possible. In this way, the weight of all the disasters they are involved with will follow them for generations, and the REAL grownups can GOVERN.

40 years in the wilderness is not enough after what W has wrought.

[NewHampster]

54. Thanks for the truth

[Lucinda]

58. Thanks for the report! Appreciate it.

[Life Long Dem]

61. Don't boo me but Hillary takes money from lobbyist.

If you want to hide this fact then boo me.

[rhett o rick]

64. Boo. jk. nm

[rhett o rick]

62. The booing and cheering that I heard were clearly in favor of HRC. How do you explain that? nm

[polichick]

66. Thanks, I wondered about that. nt

[DesertRat]

68. Thanks for the report, I was wondering what he was yelling. n/t

[otohara]

69. Heckler Was A Guy Named Bob Arum - Here's Story & Link

Bob Arum, boxing promoter and large contributor to the Nevada Democratic Party, could be heard shouting during the debate, asking CNN to allow all candidates equal time to speak.http://www.unlvrebelyell.com/article/2007/11/19/lack-of-tickets-for-unlv-angers-rogers-biden/