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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 09:24 PM
Original message
Wolf Blitzer Loses Democratic Debate
By David Swanson

That does it. It's time for the Democratic Party to stage its own debate, ask its own questions, and offer the video to networks as a completed package. Allowing CNN to not just air a debate but to ask the questions proved on Thursday night (even more dramatically than in the past) to be a soul sickening disaster.

A serious debate would begin by asking each candidate (including Mike Gravel, who was locked out of the room) what he or she would do if elected president. Thursday's debate in the opening 30 minutes had me longing for even the level of honesty and substance of the MSNBC debate hosted by Keith Olbermann in Soldier Field some months back, at which Olbermann managed the superhuman feat of asking things like "Would you cancel NAFTA?"

On Thursday Wolf Blitzer devoted the first 20 minutes to goading Clinton and Obama into bashing each other over how they have run their campaigns. Edwards was given a token 60 seconds to join the fight. At 8:18 (the debate began at 8:00 p.m. ET) Biden was permitted to add his two cents. At 8:20, Edwards was asked to bash Clinton from another angle. He took the bait, but then turned to the topic of poverty, in open violation of WB's rules. (Blitzer had announced at the start that candidates would not be permitted to stray from the topics of the questions asked.) At 8:23 Dodd got to speak, still on the debate over the debate. At 8:24 Richardson was allowed to add to the same substance-free topic. He introduced himself to the crowd as a way of registering his disastisfaction with being ignored for 24 minutes.

At 8:26, with Kucinich not having had the opportunity to say one word, CNN asked all the candidates to say whether they would support the Democratic nominee no matter what. They all said yes, except for Kucinich, who took the opportunity to say 10 words, receiving huge applause. His words were: "Only if they oppose war as an instrument of policy." A little vaguely worded, but I don't think that vagueness was Kucinich's intention. I think his intention was to contrast his own position with that of most of the other people on the stage. If he is not nominated, he is not going to be able to support the nominee.

Half an hour into this train wreck, no candidate had had an opportunity to speak to their priorities, but we heard a lot about CNN's. At 8:27 CNN asked Obama about immigration. At 8:29 WB dumbed this down and asked all the candidates for opinions on giving drivers' licenses to undocumented people. At 8:32 Kucinich got a chance to say his 11th word. He shifted the topic to NAFTA and took exception to the stupid question, refusing to answer it, winning loud applause.

Then CNN started asking various candidates about education, and for the first time asked Kucinich a non yes/no question. But instead of sticking with education, the topic of the questions before and after Kucinich's, WB asked Kucinich what he disagrees with labor unions on. Kucinich's answer was good, but not inspired. Maybe after 37 minutes, the Congressman had drifted off into daydreaming.

After education, CNN asked every candidate except Kucinich about Pakistan. At the end of this segment, at 8:52, Kucinich said "Hello? Hello?" But CNN refused to ask him a question.

Next CNN turned to Iraq, and this time Kucinich was included. He said that Congress should cut off the funding . Then he answered the Pakistan question that CNN had refused to ask him. Blitzer quickly cut him off.

At 8:58, CNN came back to Kucinich on China trade, and he nailed it. And he criticized Edwards for having voted for normal trade relations with China. Edwards dodged the question. And Edwards criticized NAFTA, although he has made clear he will not end it. WB asked Clinton whether NAFTA was a mistake. She answered by talking about Chinese pet food. He asked again, and Clinton said NAFTA did not deliver on what she had hoped it would do. Dodd criticized Clinton and Obama for supporting the Peruvian trade agreement.

At 9:07 CNN's "clean coal" sponsored debate turned to energy questions. By this point, even Obama was criticizing WB for repeatedly framing questions along the lines of "Assuming we can't find a serious solution, what should we do about ...?" Criticism of WB was becoming the easiest way to garner applause. Richardson also rejected WB's frame and shifted the topic to renewable energy. CNN quickly brought the blather back to nonsense and specifically the topic of Hillary Clinton being a woman.

The second half of the debate included pre-arranged questions from non-CNN employees. The first question came from a 3-tour Iraq veteran and his mother. He said he wanted the troops brought home now and not sent to Iran. She asked what the candidates would do now to prevent an attack on Iran. But CNN only allowed Biden, Clinton, Edwards, and Obama to answer. Clinton talked "carrots and sticks," while the rest of them criticized her vote to name the Quds force "terrorists." But Biden broke from the script in a surprising way.

"If Bush takes the country to war in Iran without an act of Congress," Biden said, "then he should be impeached!"

Richardson said something useful on the next question: he'd end the occupation by 2010. But Kucinich was not given the opportunity to say he'd end it in 2008.

When WB finally turned to Kucinich, rewording an audience member's question, he said "You were the only one who voted against the PATRIOT Act..."

"That's because I read it," Kucinich interjected to huge applause.

Kucinich nailed the question and turned to the topic of preventing an attack on Iran as well. WB saw what was coming and tried to cut him off, but Kucinich said "Impeach them now!"

Them. He did not say Cheney only.

Kucinich was only permitted to speak that one time during the debate's entire second hour.

A few questions later, Biden got applause for refusing to answer a CNN question and insisting that he would answer the question of the audience member.

Biden also said he had a plan to end the war that could begin the day he becomes president, a promise made by most of the candidates on the stage. If an intelligent moderator were asking the questions at these debates, the fact that the Senate now faces a vote on another $50 billion for the occupation would have come up, and the fact that neither Biden nor Obama nor Clinton nor Dodd is willing to filibuster it would have been brought up. Instead, the entire debate included no mention of Wednesday's vote in the House or the upcoming vote in the Senate. A moderator who loves to catch candidates in even the most trivial contradictions had not one word to say about the topic of funding an occupation they all claim to want to end.

Instead, time was found for an audience member to ask Clinton whether she "prefers diamonds or pearls."

Wolf Blitzer lost this one. The ranks of non-voters probably won.













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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Horrible Format
Wolf pursued the negative theme from the very start.

And even look at the questions asked, very narrow, the same fair we've seen so many times before.

Even the audience weren't allowed to ask an unfiltered question.
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ideagarden Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
78. We need to boycott CNN
Seriously folks this is so absurd. CNN has no coverage of Kucinich's campaign or other less "popular" candidates, hres 333, hres 799. CNN is a sellout to the big money of politics. Please write to CNN and express your views. The cuts offs were absurd, the Clinton glorifing was absurd, Wolf your a plain old PUNK. I say CNN is getting on a level playing field with Faux News.

CNN
One CNN Center, Box 105366, Atlanta, GA 30303-5366
Phone: 404-827-1500
Fax: 404-827-1906
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. I rarely watch it. I have Dishnetwork and watch Free Speech TV and C-SPAN.
KO too.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. Your first statement, 'it's time for the Dems to stage their own debate'
is spot on, but I love your blow-by-blow, thanks! And post-debate on CNN is just as laughable.
I think MoveOn or some org. should host a debate.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
69. I also appreciate the blow-by-blow account.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #69
92. Someone should have asked Wolf: "Who do you have to blow to be a CNN commentator ...
... and do you have to wear diamonds or pearls when you do the deed?"
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #92
99. Astute. Why can I never think to say things like that?
Images like that just don't pop into my mind. Hats off!
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
81. You are right. Since so many of us use the Internet, why not
have A youTubed two hours of debate hosted by MOVE.ON

Or Bill MOyers.

Someone out of the loop.

Then CNN can go piss its pants that they don't get the sad joke of a debate with all the ad revenue that comes with it.
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. Nailed it down shut
There'll be a lot of post-mortem here on this debate, but ain't nobody gonna summarize it as well as you have. Bravo, sir. Bravo.

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wundermaus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. phunny observation... maybee itz jest me...
Edited on Thu Nov-15-07 09:36 PM by vmaus
How hillary and obama were allowed to embellish and expand their answers... were politely interrupted but allowed to continue ad nauseum, but where as Dennis had a rare and fleeting moment, was cut off at the knees without exception? The CNN MSM must be deathly afraid of Dennis... Corporate control of the "message" was as subtle as a brick wall.
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HowHasItComeToThis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. BLITZ IS SUCH A SHILL
I WITH THAT THE MEDIA HEADS WOULD GET A SHOCK EACH TIME I CLICK TO REC A POST
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. Great job David, you are right on. Wolf actually met my expectations
The guy is terrible and you could see this one coming from the beginning. Drivers Licenses; yes or no.
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surfermaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I saw it coming when they said Edwards was on one end Biden on the other
In my opinion the President and V.P.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
30. Yeah, Edwards would probably make a decent V.P.
:evilgrin:
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
65. SURFERMAW
I COULDN'T AGREE MORE!!!

Edwards and Biden. Spoke eloquently and, Biden won the debate. Edwards spoke some things no one else touched. Biden constantly was pointing how things should be simpler than the others were making them. By far the best answers. And those two combined got 13 less minutes than HRC and Obama.
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. Excellent analysis. I was thinking that they should refuse to answer
Blitz's bullshit question and just say that. "This is not about Hillary, it is about...."

I have NEVER thought Wolfe was the brightest bulb in the chandelier.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. big story earlier on CNN
was how the pentagon would go broke if the senate didn't fork over the $50 billion quick

somehow it didn't come up
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. Trying to "wrongfoot" the candidates.
Timmy did it too.
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surfermaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. Kucinich , knew Edwards was getting the shaft and threw
that remark , so Edwards could speak again. That is what I think Dennis did.
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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. i'd have bought that last campaign
when dk liked edwards, but not this time around
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
13. Wolf is a Pat Robertson 'tool'
Edited on Thu Nov-15-07 10:13 PM by EVDebs
"Wolf used to work for Pat Robertson's CBN way back when Pat was setting up his news bureau and Wolf was the 700 Clubs reporter from the Middle East. He was a lot younger in those days, but in those beginning days Pat exposed Wolf Blitzer to a viewing audience that topped the Nielsen ratings at 28.7 million monthly viewers! Thats a great way to launch ones career. But Wolf Blitzer likes to keep that part of his career kind of quiet. He doesnt list the 700 Clubs news bureau in his biography. He doesnt tell CNNs audience that Pat was like an angel to him when he was just an independent reporter starting out. But those of us who watched Pats show could never forget Wolf Blitzers reports. He was presented to us as such an expertwe were just so proud of him! And look how high hes gone. Youd think hed give Pat a little credit. No doubt he says Thanks by inviting him on CNN!"

http://www.yuricareport.com/Media/OnPatRobertsonWolfeBl...
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simmonsj811 Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
14. Thanks for the post
I didn't get a chance to see it K&R
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EndElectoral Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
15. I remember when the League of Women Voters used to do these things...much better!
Edited on Thu Nov-15-07 10:30 PM by EndElectoral
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Yep, the league should get them back. Every candidate should get equal time.
And they should be broadcast on a major network, no more cable bullshit.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #15
58. How did we know that those would be the good old days?
LWV should absolutley still be doing thse debates..and they should not be on cable, as previous post says..
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #15
60. Great to meet someone who also remembers. The League of
Women Voters were interested in the issue, not the overnight ratings.
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
16. K&R. Thanks for this excellent summary. My stomach is still churning from the total lack
of respect that Blister showed for Kucinich. It was disgusting, in my opinion.
I kept hoping that DK would demand that he be given some time to answer.
I was grinding my teeth so hard, they're down to stubs at this point.
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
17. Ugh-he is AWFUL.nt
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CitizenLeft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. yes he is.
He's a nimrod.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
18. I would grade this debate at a D. It was a showcase for Hillary to improve her numbers.
I learned nothing new from the candidates and Blitzer continually cut off everyone except for Clinton and O'Bama. I thought the "Diamond and Peal" question was stupid and a worthless waste of time. I really don't care what Hillary prefers to wear in jewelry.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Exactly. A waste of time.
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Plucketeer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
73. Hillary for President
"Take Two!" And let's have some others on the stage to make it look like a debate. GAH! :puke:

BLITZKRIEG!
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ideagarden Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
77. that just goes to show you
Hillary is a richy rich for the rich upper tier of society. That was such a planted question.
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Spirochete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
21. Think they'll have Mike Malloy
moderate the next Repub debate?

Me neither.

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Kat45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
22. Thanks for that great summation of the debate.
You nailed it. I was disgusted with the debate from the outset. Corporate media continuing to orchestrate the election and what we know about the candidates. I'm almost embarrassed to say this, but though I'd heard of him, I'd never seen Wolf Blitzer before. He was terrible! Now I know why I read so many negative comments about him here. He kept trying to boil a question down to a yes or no answer, as if there was no such thing as nuance involved in a candidate's thoughts. An easy way to get a negative soundbyte on a candidate. I'm glad some of them refused to play that game. I'm trying to figure out which so-called moderator was worse: Blitzer or Russert (in the last debate). I could do a better job than either of those bozos.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
24. Great Take
Edited on Fri Nov-16-07 01:03 AM by Capn Sunshine
I wish all the candidates had called WB on his bullshit like Obama did.
That IS the difference in this campaign; Barack Obama is all about hope and a positive future
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
25. Well done...the combination of Wolf and the boorish Hillbots in the crowd
was offensive, pure and simple.
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sss1977 Donating Member (206 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. certainly sounds offensive
Glad I missed it, and thank you for the play by play.

P.S. "Because I read it!" lol, nice!
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
26. K&R. Dennis practically had to jump up and down to indicate he'd been forgotten
on the national security vs. human rights question and Blitzer still ignored him. x(
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #26
82. I think that's when DK said, "Hello? Hello?" into the mic and Blitzer said, "Don't worry, you'll
all get a chance," which is something a teacher would say to her first graders, all raising their hands at once.
So disgustingly condescending, and - of course - turned out not to be true at all.
My blood is still boiling over this!
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wiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:56 AM
Response to Original message
28. Support the Writers' Strike!
Kucinich, Biden and Clinton rocked, however.
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anitar1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 03:19 AM
Response to Original message
29. I loathe Wolf Blitzer.
Can't watch the guy. Such a wuss.
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caseycoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 04:49 AM
Response to Original message
31. Thanks for the rundown David.
I can't get cable out here in the woods, but with Blitzer I knew it would be a ridiculous farce. It would sure be great to have a REAL debate!
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #31
80. Can you cut down some trees and get Dish Network?
You'll find that you may watch Freespeech TV on it.
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caseycoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #80
88. Not really.
The trees we would have to cut down are the windbreak trees between us & a cleared field. They protect us from the brunt of any storms & hurricanes, so cutting them is really not an option.
Oh well....
Thanks for the thought!
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 05:05 AM
Response to Original message
32. At the end I said to Mr. H that the Dems should choose their own moderator. Wolf is an idiot.
You got it exactly right.

Hekate

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #32
63. Really a good idea --- !!! Go back to League of Women Voters for hosts ---
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 05:31 AM
Response to Original message
33. "Wolf Blitzer lost this one. The ranks of non-voters probably won."
My sentiments exactly.
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against all enemies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 05:43 AM
Response to Original message
34. Wolf, do you still beat your wife? It's a yes or no question.
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #34
41. You are just kidding, right? He doesn't/didn't, right??
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #41
48. It's a simple yes/no question. Why can't he answer it?
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liberal hypnotist Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
35. Neutral or Public TV for all debates.
Wolf Blitzer, Tim Russet and Ghoul Matthews simply seek sound bites to fill 24 hours of meaningless blather. What happened to CSPAN and PBS as debate stages. How much does the DNC get to prostitute, insult and belittle candidates for president by putting important debates on "entertainment news".

Are we watching "Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader?" or a debate by the potential leader of the "free world" Billy Crystal or John Stewart for next moderator?

Congrats to Dennis and Joe Biden for standing up to the deeply flawed and perverse Wolf Blitzer. What's his real name anyhow, Wolf?

I'm mad as hell and I won't take it anymore!
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howmad1 Donating Member (959 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #35
84. His real name is Leslie!
Kinda fits, doesn't it.
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lazyriver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
36. When does Bill Moyers get a chance to moderate one of these?
Wolf's performance was reminiscent of trash talk show TV. I fully expected him to bring out a surprise guest from backstage to shake things up further. Perhaps it might have been Monica Lewinsky arm in arm with Bill Clinton or maybe Shirley MacLaine who would march out on stage, kiss Dennis Kucinich on the mouth and declare she's carrying his love child conceived beneath the mystical green light of a UFO.

These "debates" are destroying whatever was left of open intelligent discourse in this country.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. Moyers would be a great choice if what we want is a forum
in which the candidates are given an opportunity to succinctly express their views on the important issues of the day, in ocntrast with their Dem rivals and the Republicans. I'm pretty sure that's not what the corporate media are after, though. As you say, they seem to feel it's more important to entertain.
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Reader Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #36
51. Here's his email. Ask him!
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
38. Blitzer is a pompous buffoon.
I can't believe CNN let an idiot like Blitzer "moderate" a serious political debate.

Okay, yes I can. It isn't news--it's newzotainaganda! Next time let's go whole hog and have Colbert do the moderatin'.
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Rockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
39. If I had been any of the so-called 2nd tier candidates....
I would have said my peace AND WALKED. I could barely stomach anymore than 3-5 minutes at a time (Hey, Survivor was on). Anyway, after reading your recaps, Dennis and Richardson and Biden should have staged a walk-out protest for being summarily ignored.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
40. Not only Wolf but the correspondents in the audience
Was it Campbell Brown and Suzanne Malveaux?

Why did they have to interpret the audience members' questions? Let the candidates answer the questions that were asked instead of making it more about the CNN employees. The candidates aren't stupid.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
42. K&R. I sure agree!
Blitzer pissed me off more than he usually does, reminded me of some kind of humorless robot that somebody programmed and then wound up... :eyes:

I was glad to see that most of the candidates said what they wanted to say, despite Blitzer's "rules." Poor Dennis had to practically jump up and down to get a chance to speak and they weren't much better with Dodd... :-(

Thanks for your accurate description of what really went on. :hi:

I'm hoping that CNN gets a lot of complaints about this and I sure agree with you that KO was sorely missed... *sigh*
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
43. It is quite depressing.
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JBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
44. For my own sanity, I'm glad I missed this debate
Wolf is such an absolute tool, he drives me insane. Those "Situation Room" segments with Jack Cafferty and Wolfie should be renamed "Bullshit-caller and the Apologist".
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
45. He was better than Russert, but that's not saying much
It's about time they stopped phrasing questions in the form of Repuke talking points. And human rights and security do not have to be separate. I would have said that human rights strengthen security, and ended there.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
46. Keith Olberman should moderate a Democratic debate
Then he can attempt to hold one for the republicons, I doubt anyone would show though.

It is always some right wing media whore who is moderating these things.
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DirtyDawg Donating Member (594 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
47. Atlanta's Shame...
...There once was a time when Atlanta could boast being the home of a number of the country's most respected and effective corporations. Over the years many of those corporations have succumbed to the vagaries of 'shareholder value' and have ceased to exist - at least in name only. We used to have large, respected banking institutions - virtually all are owned and run by North Carolinians, or New Yorkers, or somebody. We used to be the headquarters of a once-great company Georgia-Pacific - wonder if they had to do it over again if they would move here? Either way, somebody else owns it and decisions are made elsewhere. We used to be the home of one of the largest and most successful of the, so-called, Baby Bells, but lame-ass management allowed it to - again, in the name of what's best for the shareholders (basically, that meant that they had been out-maneuvered and had run out of ways to increase the value) was acquired by some Texans (what does that remind you of) that decided to put Humpty Dumpty together again because they think they can make more money that way. And while I'm at it, would UPS make the same decision now to move to Atlanta that it did all those years ago? And as for Home Depot, that once-proud orange box has lost whatever passed for leadership years ago. One of their former founders has a big fish tank that can't feed whale sharks without killin' 'me, and the other looked Michael Vick in the eye and said, 'you're my man, here's $130 million.'

My point in this is that the one company/institution that we could have done without is still calling Atlanta home - CNN - why in God's name won't TimeWarnerAOL put us out of our misery and close the bastards down, move the Blitzer's, the Dobbs, the Becks...the whole lot of 'em...to New York or someplace and turn the building into a huge homeless shelter. They've become in toto what Jon Stewart said a couple of years ago to BowtieBoy - a bunch of 'dicks'...hell, I can remember a studio director saying on the air during a documentary of CNN's coverage of the first Gulf War - 'Shut up Blitzer!' in order to keep him from skinnin' his ignorance any further on the air - too bad it didn't' take.

So I say, please, please, whoever's in charge of TW shut the place down now. We'll find something to do with the building - if nothing else we'll let Blitzer stay there for nothing - after all if you guys weren't stupid enough to keep him on the payroll, he'd have been on the street years ago.
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NoAmericanTaliban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #47
52. I'm from Atlanta and totally agree with you...
My wife & I were just talking about the decline of CNN as a news channel - ever since Ted Turner sold it to Time Warner. Right after the 1996 Olympics Atl was the place to be. Lot's of companies wanted to move here. Now, it is a different story. Over-development and grid-lock traffic have certainly not helped.

It is not just Atl, but corporations throughout the US are not doing us any favors and are demonstrating deplorable behavior. From out/in sourcing, incompetence, to out right legalized fraud and theft corporations have been hurting the US more than helping.
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bagrman Donating Member (889 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
49. I'd say the MSM is afraid of Kucinich getting elected.
Don't let him say to much of what the public wants to hear. Sounds like he got the most applause for the least amount said.



Latr
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cyclezealot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #49
95. The media empire would greatly fear Kucinich.
Monopolies are not in favor of a Kucinich FCC. God, do we need Kucinich. Monopolies does not lead to an open society.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
50. yeah it's all Wolf's fault that Hillary kicked ass and Edwards bombed.
If Edwards came out on top, everyone would be high-fiving Blitzer for three or four days.
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jaybeat Donating Member (729 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #50
53. You can't be serious
This play-by-play shows what an obvious sham this debate was, thanks to the moderator and the network.

I didn't watch it, and now knowing what went on, I'm glad. I would have lost my voice screaming at the TV.

Clearly, CNN's efforts to out faux Faux have accelerated.

Why not just have Jerry Springer moderate the next one?

:puke:
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
54. I am late to this discussion, but could not agree more whole-heartedly.
Blitzer is an embarrassment to news reporting, to the Dem party, to the candidates, and even to himself.
THEY NEED TO GET RID OF HIM!!!
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
55. I didn't see the debate and glad I didn't from what you say but how can anyone say who won when the
questions were bull shit and were not evenly asked?

Any debate with 5 or 6 debaters and only a couple of them get all the time is not a debate IMHO. And when the don't all answer the same question (a relevant question that is) how do you know what they the think on a topic?

These "debates" are a complete waste of time as are most of the posts about candidates at DU!

So far I think that the only one I feel I really know about is Dennis.
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
56. It was an awful, awful debate
good breakdown of events
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WileEcoyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. About right
Hard to believe it was all put together by CNN like some National Enquier gag.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
59. Thom and Bernie just talked about how all the questions to the
Democratic candidates were framed from Republican Talking Points.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
61. I watched the debate with the same disgust.
WB has been supporting * and the neocons without even a hint of fairness and too dumb to realize his most obvious bias from long before * announced. I wish that Kucinich had gotten up and walked off the stage with the comment that this is the most unfair, biased and ridiculous debate I have ever attended. That would have put the pompous WB in his proper context.

To understand WB's bias you need to know his background.

Blitzer began his career in journalism in the early 1970s in the Tel Aviv bureau of the Reuters news agency. In 1973 he caught the eye of Jerusalem Post editor Ari Rath, who hired Blitzer as a Washington correspondent for the English-language Israeli newspaper. Blitzer would remain with the Post until 1990, covering both American politics and developments in the Middle East.<2>

Sometime in the mid 1970s, Blitzer also worked for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee as the editor of their monthly in house publication, the "Near East Report.<4><5> While at AIPAC, Blitzer's journalism focused on Middle East affairs as it relates to United States foreign policy.

Wolf Blitzer, who has the same first name as his maternal grandfather,<1> grew up in Buffalo, New York, the son of Jewish refugees from Poland.

His association with Jerry Falwell appears to have been washed from the bio's I could find.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
62. Impeachment? Criminal government? Killing as foreign policy?
Our prisons . . . torture . . . .

Bankrupting the Treasury ---

State of the Dollar ---

America as a third world nation ---

Electric Cars ---

Nationalizing oil ---

Extending Medicare to EVERYONE ---

Where are these questions?????


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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
64. Put it on mute and read text from time to time --- never saw Dennis !!!!
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
66. davidswanson, that was an EXCELLENT SYNOPSIS
Recommended.

I too was disgusted with WB, the questions he asked, and the format.

I would let each candidate take as much time as they need in their answers, with each candidate having the same TOTAL amount of time to speak. Divide the total time by the number of candidates. Once he or she has used up their total time, that's it.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #66
83. I like your idea of each candidate getting the same amount of time
per debate and once you've used your allotment, you're done. To me, it often seems like some of the candidate who are getting the smallest amount of time to speak are the ones giving the most substantial answers. Perhaps if we let them air their views more the front-runners would feel pressured to abandon the "safer" platitudes they often go with and say something meatier and the overall quality of the debate would rise.
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Barb in Atl Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
67. This is why I never bother with debates
Mostly, the participants are trying to make their answers into soundbytes so that they can get play on other news programs. Rarely is anything of substance said (save for Dennis Kucinich who, bless him, will never EVER get the nomination, let alone elected and I LOVE that guy), just more of the same blah blah. I'm more interested in what the candidates do than what they say.

Debates are a horrible waste of time. And my throat can only take so many groans of disgust in a three hour period.

But thanks for play by play. Confirms what I expected and re-affirms my decision to read instead.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
68. Wolf then returned to the Ewok village in the trees to begin shaving
for another day's adventure down in human land
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jean627 Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
70. I would like to see Jack Cafferty and/or Keith Olbermann
moderate a debate.
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Gonnuts Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
71. The whole election process is a sham ...
Didn't you know that it's been preordained that Hillary will be the next president? Do you know about the Bilderburg Group?

Look, our entire system is a sham. Nothing as it seems to be. This whole dog & pony show we call our election process is something they do to make the people think they actually have a say in who is going to lead this country. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Bill Clinton attended the Bilderburg Group secret meeting the year before he was "elected". Hillary was "rumored", to have attended to 06' meeting.

If she becomes president and does two terms that would mean that either someone named Bush or Clinton has ruled over this nation of 330,000,000 people for 28 years. And they call people like me that think there's something wrong with a system that out of 330,000,000 people we have the same two families, with the same policies, ruling us for this long, conspiracy nuts.

If we had a fair election process, we'd have universal health care, no wars, the Federal Reserve Bank and the IRS would be history, schools that actually educated, streets that were safe to walk and drive down, and citizen statesman, instead of a revolving door of career politicians.

There is no America like the one we were taught in school anymore. That America has been steadily eroded, bought-off and corrupted to the core by the 1%ers who meet every year in secret to determine who will rule where and what wars will be fought that will keep them in control of nearly everything and everybody on this planet. How after watching these phony, lopsided, so-called fair debates could anyone think anything else? Do you think it's an accident that Kucinich is ignored and Clinton get's the lion's share of the attention? And again, they call me "nuts" when you can see the insanity before your own eyes.
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Amanita Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
72. "I object to the framing" DK said re: illegal immigrants
It was very satisfying.
Your analysis is dead on.
We need debates - maybe on PBS, with Bill Moyers instead of these clowns...The discussion after on CNN was like a sports commentary again - who was 'in good shape", who wasn't - I tuned it out in minutes!
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Plucketeer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
74. Great summation!
Blitzkrieg orchestrated the Clinton - Obama 10-rounder (WWE at that!) and left the rest on stage to try to say something between rounds. Debate? My ASS! All that was missing was canned laughter after each of Blintzer's softballs!
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DaveT Donating Member (447 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
75. Who is surprised by this?
When is outrage going to turn the corner into action?

Stop watching TV for political information! Period, full stop.



The majority of Americans already do not watch this crap.
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Greylyn58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
76. I only watched a small portion of last nights debate
but it was enough to make me sick.

Your analyze of just what I saw is spot on. It was a totally disgusting display by WB and CNN.

The whole point of these debates is for voters to hear from the different candidates, hear their views, what they want to achieve once elected, what they want to do for the American people. However these debates (for the most part) have become little more than Dog and Pony Shows. Last nights debate was one of the worst.

If all the candidates aren't allowed a chance to answer the questions presented then we the voters are only getting one or two points of view. While there have been little moments in each of these debates, the only one I've enjoyed (in it's entirety) was the one moderated by Keith Olbermann. He has been the most honest host of all of these and tried to give each candidate their time.

It's time that we get someone who doesn't have an ax to grind or a candidate to promote, to moderate these things. It's the only way we will ever get a fair and open debate of the issues concerning this country.




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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
85. Blitzer is a fucking embarrassment.
I'll bet the children of any DUer could have done a better job. I tuned out after the first 5 minutes when it became apparent what he was doing.
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
86. Anyone remember the CNN hosting of the dem debate in Harlem?
The one where the stars in the backdrop behind the candidates formed a negative space shaped like a skull? Shortly after that, there was a story about army psych-ops interning with CNN. CNN fully expects us to have a choice between a republican war with Iran candidate and a democratic one. If the American people want anyone to pay any attention to domestic issues, ie., the bankrupting of our country, we're going to have to regain control of the political process. They won't go quietly.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
87. Thanks, David
:patriot:
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ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
89. He pimped for the Iraq war in 2003.
I can't believe that the Democratic debates used him or CNN. Anything that got close to anti-corporate, ant-war, or populist messages, he tried to cut short. CNN is made for the Clintons. It really doesn't matter whether it is a corporate Democrat or a corporate Republican. It's a win-win situation for corporate America.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
90. OMG, I never realized it was that bad
Putting it together as a timeline like that is VERY revealing.

It's obvious that the "debate" is being steered to Obama and Clinton to the exclusion of all the other candidates.

And it's ALSO obvious that if Kucinich were allowed to speak, he'd annihilate his opponents, at least on the more important points.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
91. Self-delete
Edited on Fri Nov-16-07 06:22 PM by Fly by night
I wanted to move my snarky comment about Wolf higher up in this thread.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
93. "Diamonds or pearls"- now that is of vital interest
to SO many Americans who have no healthcare and can't make their rent/mortgage payments, isn't it?


Shame on Wolfie and CNN. I watched a 9 minute video that had Kucinich's comments and that was all I needed to hear. The rest...pfft...same old, same old....
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
94. An exceptionally shrewd suggestion.
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cyclezealot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
96. When the media so dislikes a candidate.
It speaks well of a candidates honesty.
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
97. the horrible wolf blitzer thinks of himself as some socratic gadfly .he is so blind, or narcissistic
he can't realize he is nothing of the sort.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
98. Can we stop calling this stuff "debate?" n/t
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