Let me get this straight with Anti-ABBers...

[Maddy McCall]

It is NOT my duty to "attract" you to my point of view that you should vote for the Democratic nominee in November. It is NOT my responsibility to be excruciatingly, sugar-coatedly "polite" to you so that you will consider rejecting your decision not to support the Democratic nominee.

You accuse two of the Democratic candidates of whoring for Bush, yet you would have me raise my skirt and present my backside to you so that I can "earn" your support of the Democratic nominee. Riiiight!

Our founding fathers believed that the only way this republic would survive is through the contributions of well-informed, intelligent voters. If you aren't intelligent or well-informed enough to see the danger of another four years under Bush, and if you choose to withhold your vote just because DUers "hurt your feelings," then I have nothing left to say to you. Your self-centered immaturity presents itself with your every post.

Say whatever you like, rip me if you want (I hold you in such low esteem that you opinion matters NADA to me), but DON'T expect me to pander to you for your vote. If you decide your political engagement based on how DUers treat you, then I truly pity you. But be very aware: Your threats to withhold your vote will NOT receive my attention any more.

To other DUers who are sick of this bullshit: Don't waste your time responding to Anti-ABBers--EVER--their posts reek of desperation for attention and nothing more. If you want to be productive and help defeat Bush in a very real way, help your local precinct's Democratic organizers, and quit wasting your time responding to the DU Bush enablers.

[corporatewhore]

1. I want the candidates to pander and listen to me not you

[quinnox]

2. Nice rant!

Agree completely. There has been a tiny but loud minority with the mindset described ever since I found Du (more than a year). It is best to ignore them, I suspect many are teens and like the attention they get from being controversial.

[mitchum]

3. Beautiful post, jchild

[waldenx]

4. its not your duty,

it is the candidate's duty to earn every vote.
If you really think it is about getting attention, you don't understand or respect democracy.

[mitchum]

8. Uh...I don't think that the thread starter is going to respond...

and I can't believe that I did. No more.

[ModerateMiddle]

47. there is no possible way

that a partisan candidate can earn *every vote*. This is a very divided nation. Many, many people will vote for the re-election of a disasterous president. For example there is absolutely no way that a Dem candidate will ever *earn* the vote of the Christian Coalition types.

This is without a doubt THE most important election of my lifetime. IMO, those who refuse to vote for the "lesser of two evils" (which I have been doing my entire life - never having had the opportunity to vote FOR a candidate I believed in), then you are no better, IMO, than the hate mongering religious "right".

I feel no need to engage the group that won't stand against George W. Bush. I see their posturing as the infantile "taking their ball and going home" if they can't be the captain of the team.

This is my only post on this matter: I hope you all enjoy playing with yourselves.

[littlejoe]

54. That is where I think you are mistaken. It is your duty to earn votes.

For your candidate. Same goes for everyone else here. The candidates cannot do this by themselves. They need us.

And we do need to be well informed and behave like adults.

[absyntheNsugar]

5. Re: taking up issue with anti-ABB'ers

I understand it might be best to ignore these traitors, but I'm not sure that logic works anymore.

Think about white supremacy. In the 80's we were told to ignore them and eventually they'll go away. They didn't - they got stronger and were able to corrupt the minds of the innocent.

Howard Dean's early sucess in part was due to the Dean Defense Corps. This method used volunteers to spread the good word, and debate those who had unfavorable things to say about Dean. It worked.

So, just ignoring the Nader Traitors does not appear to me to be the best strategy. But who knows?

[Raster]

6. Foremost and forefront, ANYBODY BUT BUSH!

All the other BS can be sorted out later. If we don't stop this cabal of neocon thugs, there won't be anything to sort out. It's just that simple. I too am sick and tired or hearing that someone just can't bring themselves to voting for the democratic candidate because of this reason or that. Get a clue. Any vote not for the democratic candidate IS A VOTE FOR $HRUBCO. Plain and simple. You can dress a pig in a prom dress, but it's still a pig.

I hate to put it this simple, but, in effect, you're either with $hrubco or your against $hrubco. A vote for anyone other than the democratic candidate IS A VOTE FOR $HRUBCO!

[absyntheNsugar]

7. AMEN BROTHER!!!!

You almost make me want to change my avatar to kerry...

[AmyStrange]

9. Exactly...

get busy doing local grassroots work, and thus doing some "real" good rather than wasting your time (and my time) telling me who I should vote for, and I won't tell you who you should vote for. Berating folks who don't think like you (or like me) has NEVER worked,



Dave (AmyStrange.com) Ayotte
Please, regularly check the One Missing Person (is one person too many) searchable website for the latest (and archived) missing person news stories:

http://NEWS.OneMissingPerson.org/

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

10. Anyone slamming the door on me in my appeal to send Bush home

may wish to consider the degree to which they are slamming the door on their own foot.

[Maddy McCall]

19. That probably went over their heads.

I agree 100%

[AmyStrange]

25. This is probably going to go over your head then...

because a vote for Kerry as the nominee is a vote for Bush in November... You'll see I'm right in November.

[XanaDUer]

40. Yeah, like you've been right all along?

:eyes:

Although I agree that people should vote for whomever they want.

[AmyStrange]

51. We shall see in November...

that I am right. That's the best arguement going...

Dave (AmyStrange.com) Ayotte
Please, regularly check the One Missing Person (is one person too many) searchable website for the latest (and archived) missing person news stories:

http://NEWS.OneMissingPerson.org/




Serious Serial Killer discussion:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SK-Cafe/

[littlejoe]

58. If we don't display unity by November,

there won't BE anything worth seeing.

[AmyStrange]

67. Us displaying unity...

has nothing to do with it. Kerry picking Edwards for VP is the only thing that will change the course of history, and even then it will still be close. It isn't us you have to worry about, it's everyone that is ACTUALLY going to vote for Shrub and Company in November that you have to worry about.

Of course berating those who won't vote ABB in November here on DU is a MUCH EASIER target isn't it,

Dave (AmyStrange.com) Ayotte
Please, regularly check the One Missing Person (is one person too many) searchable website for the latest (and archived) missing person news stories:

http://NEWS.OneMissingPerson.org/




Serious Serial Killer discussion:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SK-Cafe/

[feistydem]

11. You took the words right outta my mouth!

I read someone today on DU who said s/he would vote for Bush before Kerry because s/he felt like Kerry dismantled Dean's campaign. Uh, no... Dean lost because of Dean.

Bush appointed another right wing, crazy ass judge today while Congress is in recess. The Bushies like to talk about judicial fiats and activist judges, but then what the heck was that the Supreme Court pulled in the 2000 election?

Anyone who can't see that Kerry would be better for democracy than Bush has some serious blinders on.

Get over it already and quitcherbellyachin'!

[RichM]

12. Actually, no one cares what you do with your skirt & backside, or

what esteem you hold them in. If you want to vote for Democratic whores and sellouts, that's your problem.

Don't flatter yourself about your intelligence level, either. Just because you're unable to see that the real enemy is the dysfunctional 2-party system, & its slavish service to the corporate oligarchy, doesn't mean everyone is unable to see it.

[tedoll78]

14. Yes yes yes..

let's move farther away from our ideological goals rather than closer to them. Yes, this is for the best. :eyes:

You might want to take a political science class or two. And then mathematics. In a system built as ours is, two-party is a permanent reality. If we had a system of proportionate representation, I'd not bother calling you on this, but this just isn't the case.

edit: that word choice was just too rude of me. Apologies.

[kiahzero]

15. The real enemy is Duverger's Law

Too bad it's a natural result of First-Past-the-Post voting. Change that, and then you have the option of voting third-party without supporting the opposing ideology.

Don't flatter yourself about your intelligence level, either. Just because you're unable to see that the real enemy is the voting system that spawned the dysfunctional two-party system doesn't mean that everyone is unable to see it.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

20. I care. I've seen her picture. It's enough to make me threaten to vote

for Nader just to get her to do it.

[Maddy McCall]

21. LOL!

:blush:

:yourock: NSMA

[progressivebydesign]

23. I'm sorry.. but "skirt and backside" thing makes me want to hurl!

Could there have been a better way to put what you needed to say, in words? Jchild, your point was lost in the metaphoric wonderland.

I'm slowly returning to ABB.. I feel rather burned by the corporate democrats right now.. we'll see how I feel in November. Keep your skirt down... I'm not interested.

[littlejoe]

59. And just what is your proposal for positive change?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

13. Two days ago, this thread would have been locked as 'inflammatory'

I hope one by-product of the new rule revision will be that we can now politely say things that might hurt people's feelings without getting in trouble.

:yourock:

[Maddy McCall]

26. Yep...

Thanks!

[edzontar]

35. It is as if the mask has come off, and the face of decay and rot

...and corruption, once kept discretely out of view in the attic, is now on full and public display--the face of the Gorgon!!!!

The good news is that we are all finding out exactly what sort of minds we are sharing this board with.

Maybe it's time to take some time off.

[bicentennial_baby]

36. Damn straight

"The good news is that we are all finding out exactly what sort of minds we are sharing this board with."

Word.

[edzontar]

42. Looks like Nader is the new Dean.

Some people need an object of fear and hatred, apparently.

I guess the anonymity of a message board provides the perfect cover for people to say things that any rational person would consider psychotic in a public forum or private conversation.

I am no Nader supporter, but the hysteria I have seen here in the past days sacres me a lot more than his potential campaign.

Human degradation is a terrifying thing to witness.

[rucky]

16. Actually, it is your duty

if that's what it takes to win.

and winning is everything, right?

[mzmolly]

17. Let me get this straight with ABBers

It is NOT my duty to "attract" you to my point of view that you should vote for a person who represents your interests. It is NOT my responsibility to be excruciatingly, sugar-coatedly "polite" to you so that you will consider rejecting your principals to fit my agenda.

You accuse any of the Leftwing Independent candidates of whoring for Bush, yet you would have me raise my skirt and present my backside to you so that I can vote for someone who doesn't represent my interests! Riiiight.

Our founding fathers believed that the only way this republic would survive is through the contributions of well-informed, intelligent voters. If you aren't intelligent or well-informed enough to see the danger of voting for the status quo, and if you choose to withhold your vote just because DUers "hurt your feelings," then I have nothing left to say to you. Your self-centered immaturity presents itself with your every post.

Say whatever you like, rip me if you want (I hold you in such low esteem that you opinion matters NADA to me), but DON'T expect me to pander to you for your vote. If you decide your political engagement based on how DUers treat you, then I truly pity you. But be very aware: Your threats to withhold your vote will NOT receive my attention any more.

To other DUers who are sick of this bullshit: Don't waste your time responding to ABBers--EVER--their posts reek of desperation for attention and nothing more. If you want to be productive and help defeat medocrisy in a very real way, help your local precinct's Independent Party organizers, and quit wasting your time responding to the DU Bush enablers.

Works two ways JChild. Disrepecting a persons right to disagree with you is sheer hypocricy.

[zoeyfong]

28. Yep, and he/she has no idea what anti-ABB is about.

[KFC]

53. Let me guess: Being Republican

Helping Bush out doesn't strike me as being very progressive.

[G_j]

46. to put it another way

pot meet kettle

[littlejoe]

61. The messenger may be a little rough, but let not the message

be lost.

[RafterMan]

18. Being anti-ABB

Doesn't mean you've already vetoed the Democrats.

But feel free to make up more words and put them in my mouth.

[jonnyblitz]

22. why dont u people who harp on this topic 24/7 give it a rest.

I am ABB but if i werent i would be getting pissed off by now already.

[HFishbine]

24. PLEASE!!!! FOR THE LOVE OF HUMANITY! I IMPLORE YOU!

DO NOT even joke about raising your skirt and presenting your backside. Hasn't Bush done enough damage already?

[zoeyfong]

27. You really don't have a clue, and you're not helping the dem party.

[edzontar]

38. I have noticed that a few of these ABB fanatics actually voted Nader

Last time, and admit it.

Why should I, who have voted straight Dem for 32 years, have to listen to intemperate and bullying lectures from people who have such poor judgment?

[unfrigginreal]

50. Ain't that the goddamned truth...

It's sort of like listening to Bill Bennett proselytizing against gambling.

[edzontar]

52. Yeah--It's rather like those TV preachrs who cry about how they

Were drunks, drug addicts and whore mongers, then expect ME to accept their PRESENT judgment about the state of my soul.

Give me a big break, please.

[littlejoe]

62. I disagree. In this year, and perhaps only this year, any

candidate should be all of our mantra. There is just simply too much at stake.

[BruinAlum]

29. I agree. I wish people would stop giving them the time of day.

I resent the manipulative bullshit anyway. When children have tantrums we ignore them. Same advise applies for adults.

[yorgatron]

30. ABB

or STFU! this ain't GREENunderground x(

[BruinAlum]

31. No, not at all. I wouldn't even

say ABB or STFU. That's what children want when they have tantrums - attention, even if it's negative attention.

Just like I said, ignore them. Quit giving them the time of day.

[DeepModem Mom]

32. Thanks for your post, jchild --

And you're right, maybe if we stop "feeding" them, they'll go away.

[maxanne]

33. your smug

superiority is very attractive.

[edzontar]

34. Nice sentiments. Very thoughtful and eloquently expressed.

Especially the part about showing your backside.

Somehow I wonder if it is the antiABBers who are the ones who "reek of desperation."

Speaking as someone who is going to vote for nominee, but is more than a bit disappointed in the final selection, I would suggest that ths whole line of spewing contempt and rage is not going to gain you many votes.

[MurikanDemocrat]

37. Good advice. Don't feed the trolls.

[citizen snips]

39. What is ABB?

What does it stand for?

[MurikanDemocrat]

45. Anybody But Bush

[Guaranteed]

41. Don't you DARE pander to me.

YOU are not running for president, and I'm not voting for you.

[Iverson]

43. You don't want to get anything straight.

Clearly your thread is designed to frame those who disagree with you in an inaccurate, unflattering light so that you can carry on with mediocre righteous indignation.

It's called "straw man." When Republicans do it to Democrats, as they surely will, just remember this moment.

[MoonRiver]

44. I agree totally with your post.

Personally, I think Nader is aligned with the Repukes. I'm sure he's working with them for what he considers to be the best of leftwing motives. He probably believes like most of his followers that only a catastrophic social meltdown of our country will result in the kind of "revolution" he envisions as best for America. Well if this is where he's coming from, I call Nader a traitor. He's potentially damning Americans to generations of misery and suffering, possibly resulting in a bloody and long insurrection against our rightwing totalitarian government, potentially resulting in thousands of deaths. But the fact is, that once these fascist bastards get total control, which they will if * is handed another 4 by Nader, its going to be much more difficult and violent to restore our country to normalcy.

Those who have, or have enough, will in all likelihood just try to survive and carry on our lives as best we can. (Speaking for myself, I won't be participating in a violent revolution.) I'm tring my best to protest the * coup through discussion and rational participation in the poltical process, not demanding perfection from my candidates, but working hard to elect decent and caring men like Clark and Kerry. That's as far as I'm willing to go. If Naderites and other true believers decide to destroy us all, let them take the bullets when they finally wake-up to the devastation they will have helped produce. Unfortunately "the revolution will not be televised" and few will even notice what's happening through the impenetrable rightwing propaganda filter.

I hope this is the last rant I make about Nader. I agree with you that ignoring the shrill rhetoric is the best policy. Fortunately, since Nader isn't on the Green ticket, and has been incredibly discredited, he probably won't siphon many votes off the Democratic ticket, and our concerns won't materialize into reality.

[Zomby Woof]

48. I'll raise my skirt!

For a post like yours. :D

[JNelson6563]

49. Interesting approach

It is NOT my duty to "attract" you to my point of view that you should vote for the Democratic nominee in November. It is NOT my responsibility to be excruciatingly, sugar-coatedly "polite" to you so that you will consider rejecting your decision not to support the Democratic nominee.

Who asked you to be "sugar-coatedly 'polite'" to them? Perhaps people only require civility and some respect.

You accuse two of the Democratic candidates of whoring for Bush, yet you would have me raise my skirt and present my backside to you so that I can "earn" your support of the Democratic nominee. Riiiight!

Whoever asked for such a thing from you or anyone??

Our founding fathers believed that the only way this republic would survive is through the contributions of well-informed, intelligent voters. If you aren't intelligent or well-informed enough to see the danger of another four years under Bush, and if you choose to withhold your vote just because DUers "hurt your feelings," then I have nothing left to say to you. Your self-centered immaturity presents itself with your every post.

Gee, maybe it is stuff like this that puts folks off when it comes to having any regard for your views. First you try to paint a picture of folks who don't think like you as wanting abject humliation, an extreme exaggeration, and then you heap them with scorn. You could certainly drive your point home in a much more diplomatic, and significantly more effective style than what you are choosing. For the importance of stopping Bush from being able to stack the SCOTUS I should hope the ABB folks would put a lot more thought and effort into their approach than what we have here.

Say whatever you like, rip me if you want (I hold you in such low esteem that you opinion matters NADA to me), but DON'T expect me to pander to you for your vote. If you decide your political engagement based on how DUers treat you, then I truly pity you. But be very aware: Your threats to withhold your vote will NOT receive my attention any more.

Wow! Where to begin on this? So you start out inviting personal attacks (perhaps the kind that might result in deletions, warnings and/or bannings?? ;-) ) and then throw in an insult to maybe get the ball rolling. Again, not the most effective approach to creating a much needed unity among Dems. I hope you will work on this.

To other DUers who are sick of this bullshit: Don't waste your time responding to Anti-ABBers--EVER--their posts reek of desperation for attention and nothing more. If you want to be productive and help defeat Bush in a very real way, help your local precinct's Democratic organizers, and quit wasting your time responding to the DU Bush enablers.

To other DUers who feel they too have gotten nowhere promoting their ABB/unity cause, take this post as a good lesson on how not to achieve any progress.

JChild the futility of this post/thread, no, the counter-productivity of it, is glaring. Do you sincerely want to achieve a more unified party come November? I do. I would never use something so divisive as this to work toward that goal and do not understand how you could have believed this would have in any way been helpful.

Julie

[KFC]

63. Wrong. The anti-ABBers deserve zero respect.

On this Democrat website.

If you want to help Bush stay in office, I suggest you go elsewhere.

[Forkboy]

65. waaaaaaaaaaaaah

[WillyT]

55. I'm Sure The Candidate You Support Agrees With You... NOT !!!

Matter of fact, why not submit your treatise to your guy, and see if they'll put it on their site, or in their next ad.

LMAO here!!!

PS - Thanks for not lifting your skirt. A tad hungover right at the moment.

:evilgrin:

[maxanne]

56. hmmmm

you might want to reconsider the skirt raising. No need to create a mass exodus.

[Forkboy]

57. Oh waaaaah

[Scott Lee]

60. I've got my candidate!

Get on board the Ham Sandwich train! It's leaving the station and evvvvverybody rides!

[littlejoe]

64. Please be a little more respectful of the candidates. n/t

[buddhamama]

66. so...

you are carrying on the ideals of the Founding Fathers?

"Our founding fathers believed that the only way this republic would survive is through the contributions of well-informed, intelligent voters."

i certainly hope not because the Founding Fathers as quoted above- and you should know this- were only interested in White, rich, educated citizens voting to keep their asses in power and their interests safe.

So too, with this influential Philosopher

http://www.straussian.net/
perhaps you have heard of him?