If Feinstein and Schumer lived in Canada

[Clintonista2]

They would be kicked out of the party in the blink of an eye, loss of the senate be damned. What the hell is with lack of party discipline in the USA?

[MADem]

They'd probably be great pals with the PM. Don't fool yourselves--Canada ain't all

peace, love and lefty-loony anymore.

They're like us, only not QUITE so bad.

Their PM is like Bush with a command of the English language.

[Clintonista2]

4. I'm Canadian, which is why what those two senators did was so surprising to me

In Canada, you either vote with the party on important issues like this, or you switch parties/go independent. That's why there's literally NO lobbyist influence in our government... MPs vote with the party or they leave it.

[MADem]

11. In America, you vote your conscience. You don't go with lockstep ideology.

You sometimes engage in the politics of quid pro quo, but you aren't required to, or expected to.

If our legislators did nothing but vote the party line, we'd not need them. See, our two party system encompasses wide swathes on both sides of the center.

And Canadian politicians ARE lobbied by lobbyists. They're just not quite so obvious, but make no mistake, they're there. To the point that the Canadian government has seen fit to REGULATE them: http://www.ic.gc.ca/cmb/Welcomeic.nsf/cdd9dc973c4bf6bc852564ca006418a0/85256a220056c2a485256c5b0061e2fa!OpenDocument

The Lobbyists Registration Act, enacted in 1989, establishes the framework governing people who lobby the Government of Canada, either as paid consultants or as employees of businesses and non-profit organizations. The Lobbyists Registration Act was strengthened extensively in 1996.
...

Hell, our lobbyists can't do more than buy a legislator's staff four pizzas a year. We've cracked down, too. But there are ways around that shit, above our northern border and below it.

[Hieronymus]

15. Thanks, if only we had that here.

[cartach]

16. MP's in a great many cases

get elected because they promise to do something about the concerns of their constituents,but when they take office as members of the majority party they have to go along with and vote for what the PM and his Cabinet want.The concerns of the constituents play second fiddle to the concerns of the party and in many cases do not coincide.If the MP votes against or even abstains he or she will be be kicked out of the party.Do you really think that is true democracy? What S&F did can in a great many cases ensure that a minority is heard from.In this case I don't feel that what S&F did was right but I think the autonomy is important.As far as lobbyists are concerned they have it better in Canada.There's less of them because they don't have to court individual MPs,they just go right to the top.

[MADem]

1. Pardon me, double click.

[Birthmark]

5. If Feinstein and Schumer lived in Canada...

...I'd be a LOT happier.

[JeffR]

7. Would it were so

but as an American expatriate long resident in Canada, my admittedly foreign perspective on the senate here and on party politics here tells me this isn't quite accurate. Of course, the nature of the senate here is different, and uniquely crazy, but notwithstanding that, I don't know how accurate the comparison is.

That said, as a US voter, not a Canadian one, I'd like to see Feinstein and Schumer turfed unceremoniously. They both bite.

[dicknbush]

8. The whores Feinstein and Schumer were given some assurances from Bush

Count on it. They are scum bags who should be removed form their offices at the earlieast possible moment!

[aquart]

14. "Count on it." As in, you don't know a goddamn thing.

[Doctor Cynic]

9. Actually, if they were in Canada...

...they would still be in the party for a few more weeks, and then bolt to the other party just before an important vote on which the country's future stands. We've had a senior Conervative MP (a suburban Toronto one who wasn't happy with Harper's hardline style) bolt to the Liberals just as everyone thought they were doomed, and newspapers had cartoons depicted her as a whore. And last year an MP who won in an inner-city Vancouver district as a Liberal switched to the Conservatives the day before they the Conservative government was to start. There were protests, and at one point someone flew a banner over Ottawa telling him to go home. A few weeks later a Conervative MP for another suburba Toronto district was kicked after he criticized Harper's environmental policies on his blog, and at one point considered joining the Green Party. So in Canada, party discipline is non-existant. ;)

[cartach]

17. Non-existent?

You've contradicted yourself.Or don't you call being kicked out being disciplined?

[Lasher]

10. Majority control would not change regardless of attrition

Democrats will retain control of the Senate until 2009 no matter how the membership changes.

BTW, Republicans do a much better job of maintaining party discipline. Feinstein and Schumer could and probably should have been threatened with losing their committee assignments in this case.

[KingFlorez]

12. That isn't something that is needed in the Democratic Party

Granted, not every vote some Senators make is good, but it's would really be over the line to try and administer discipline to those who didn't walk in lock step.

[Clintonista2]

13. Torture isn't something that is needed in America

What's the point of calling yourself a member of the Democratic party if you vote with Republicans on key issues?

[KingFlorez]

2. I didn't say torture was needed

My point was that people shouldn't be kicked out of a political party for voting a certain way.

[Clintonista2]

3. But if you belong to a certain party, then you uphold the principles of that party

And if you don't like the principles of that party, then you switch parties or you go independent. I understand that on most issues, they should be free to vote as they will. However, on certain issues, there should be a level of party discipline.

[opihimoimoi]

6. Yup, ya got it right.....sending cold beer and hot crabs....

[LeftishBrit]

18. Party discipline is a two-edged sword...

Would you like to have party leaders elected, who would turn out to be on the far right of their parties, and stifle dissent, to the point of making more liberal/left members of the party totally powerless, and pushing the whole country to the right indefinitely? (I realize that's probably already happened with the Republicans.) That's what happened here, first with Thatcher and the Tories, then with Blair and Labour.

[Ian David]

19. Perhaps a little wateboarding will re-enforce party discipline? n/t