have obama supporters overLooked the mccLoset controversy?

[sniffa]

Poll question: have obama supporters overLooked the mccLoset controversy?

and minimized the reaction of the GLBT community? this is a Legitimate issue, and the obama camp screwed up, but do you think his supporters have been overLy crueL in an attempt to prop up their candidate and hopefuLLy stifLe the uproar?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

1. not cruel as much as bigoted. All their arguments rely on accepting a lesser humanity for GLBT

The fact that gays cannot marry is somewhat acceptable as a practical, political reality. But practical GLBT acquiescence to that political necessity does not mean they should be equally willing to accept gratuitous slurs from within the party.

Many of the Obama-apologist posts on this topic would have been deleted, and the poster tomb-stoned, if you substituted "Asian" or "Disabled" instead of "gay" in their arguments.

The worst offenders have really dropped their masks, and it has been a serious shock to many here.

[MethuenProgressive]

42. Not "overlooking" - "accepting" and "approving" and "donating because of"

Barack knows the evangelicals have more money than "the gays"...

[TwilightZone]

2. I think that the danger is in confusing opinion with fact.

So many people involved in these discussions seem to think that their opinions apply to everyone.

If a person in the GLBT community believes that this is a serious issue, I don't see how anyone can deny that that is a valid opinion.

[CyberPieHole]

3. I like Senator Obama. But he has made a mistake.

To paint it otherwise is naive. Any attempt to question the "legitimacy" of the issue is to mis-understand the concerns of the GLBT community. At best it is insensitive---at worst it shows signs of contempt.

[sniffa]

5. and the contempt is stiLL ongoing

make no mistake - this is beyond naivety now.

fuck them, and kick because of them.

[AtomicKitten]

4. People have already made up their minds.

I understand your feelings about this. I am sorry Obama let you down, more than you know but I hope believe. I respect any way you choose to vote.

The fact that this is not a deal-breaker for me does not mean the above is not or even less true. If Obama had voted yes on Kyl-Lieberman, I would have ceased to support him.

Obama is the only realistically viable candidate to deprive Hillary of the nomination. In my opinion, the fact that she voted yes on the IWR and now yes on Kyl-Lieberman scares the sh*t out of me and makes this the #1 issue for me.

I would ask that you give me the space to feel strongly about this without being made to feel even more guilty about your decision to oppose my candidate of choice.

I don't think either of us is wrong on this. I hope you can see that.

Peace.

[Dawgs]

6. Thanks for lumping us all together.

I'm very disappointed in the Obama campaign for handling this so poorly. I've stated that many times.

I have also stated that I think he will fight just as strong as anyone for the GLBT community.

As long as he fights against war (where he has had the best judgement) and stays a strong progressive I will always support him.

[jefferson_dem]

7. How about "some" of his supporters?

I voted NO in this poll because "Obama supporters" implies the universe of all and that is demonstrably false. Obama supporters do not march in lock-step solidarity any more than Hillary or Kucinich supporters do.

[Solon]

8. A big problem is that they can't even bring themselves to call a bigot a bigot...

McCloset is a bigot, that's a FACT I think most reasonable people would agree with. Yet you see Obama supporters try to DEFEND his views, and excuse it. That's simply unacceptable.

[Egnever]

48. I haven't seen anyone excuse mcjerkins behavior

A lot of the stuff he has spewed is extremely bigoted. I think you are seeing a lot of people bristle at the idea that somehow because mcjerkin is bigoted Obama must be too.

[sniffa]

50. of course you haven't

bLinders have that effect.

now, a hearty, dismissive, "LOL" to you.

[Egnever]

54. back at ya

you're a one line insult posting machine you were dismissed long ago.

[sniffa]

56. dismissed by who?

you? who's now responding in my threads?

you're actuaLLy fucking nauseating, from what i've read from you. but keep it up, we'LL gLadLy vote for gobama now. :puke:

your posts on the issue are fucked up and offensive. so excuse me if i onLy give you a one Line - you're too much of a joke to give more than that to.

[Egnever]

57. I don't care if you vote for Obama or not

Theres a lot of good choices out there take your pick. Makes no difference whatsoever to me. You seemed to have me confused with someone like yourself who is a one trick pony that has candidate worship in their eyes and only the one is good and all the rest are bad bad men/women. Your views are simplistic I expect no less than one line insults from you and its exactly why you were dismissed long ago.

[sniffa]

58. whatever

enjoy dispLaying your ignorance. now, you're truLy dismissed.

[Egnever]

61. your breaking my heart

you bring nothing but derision to your discussions your loss is one I will gladly accept.

[yardwork]

52. You must have missed the many posts that equate homosexuality with sin.

A number of posters have stated here that their religion requires them to be opposed to homosexuality, and they get mad when we point out that this makes them bigots.

I could say that my religion requires me to be a white supremacist but somehow I think that would get less traction. The fact is that is acceptable in many people's minds to be biased against gay people.

[Egnever]

55. I did

And were I to see them I would refute the as forcefully as I am refuting this garbage about Obama.

[terrya]

9. Yes, some have.

It's blatantly obvious that some around here couldn't care less about the reaction from GLBT people.

[Lerkfish]

10. I fault his campaign mostly

bad set of moves that really sours me on his candidacy.
I'm already soured on Clinton... so the top two are not my favorites

[CTLawGuy]

11. First, yes the man's (McClurkin's) views are offensive

but you have to keep perspective.

Those views are a perhipheral part of McClurkin. He is primarily a gospel singer and that's what Obama hired him to be. He's not the headliner, he is one act out of 4 on the last night of a three night concert (so that's one guy out of 12). He's not there to pontificate about his hateful views, he's there to sing.

That said Obama should get rid of him if he still can (he may have signed a contract).

I just wanted to reorient everyone's perspective.

Second,
A lot of Obama supporters are annoyed that:

1. The outrage is selective (what about Hillary and Rev. Mayberry?)
2. Obama himself is being called a bigot over this ("O'Bigot?!")
3. McClurkin's role in the concert and in Obama's campaign is being overinflated. (someone called him the headliner at the concert).

That may explain their defensiveness.

[dsc]

13. It is totally ludricrious to say that a gospel singer's religious beliefs

are peripheral to his gospel singing. The whole point of gospel singing is to spread ones religious beliefs.

[CTLawGuy]

17. in general yes

I don't think he writes his own stuff, he probably sings traditional gospel songs.

He's not there to sing about how gays are bad.

[MNDemNY]

21. At this point, his presence alone

is enough to give a large voice to his views, even if all he sings is, "Jesus Loves Me".

[CTLawGuy]

40. it depends on how well associated he is with those views

I never heard of the guy till this happened. Are the views the central part of his resaon for existence or were they an ofhand remark to a reporter years ago?

I have no idea.

[Solon]

14. Almost half the acts at the concert are homophobic...

A lot of focus is on McCloset, but there is also Mary Mary and Hezekiah Walker.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3637139

In addition to this, the lie that all the Obama critics are Hillary supporters has been proven false, even though the Obama supporters keep on repeating it.

One of the most offensive things are the excuses and justifications for homophobia itself that Obama supporters themselves keep repeating.

The ONLY issue I agree with you on is calling Obama himself a bigot, as far as I know, he's not, but it seems to me and many others that many of his supporters here are.

[Egnever]

53. Almost half the world is bigoted

if not more. Thats not an excuse for it but you cant just eliminate half the world. The point a lot of us are trying to make is that you need to get these people to start talking with you somewhere in order to change that fact. Nothing erases bigotry faster than exposing those views to reality where they can be seen as the irrational fears that they are. A lot of religious people have no real world exposure to gays other than being called names because they fear them. Not the best way to get them to realize theres nothing for them to be afraid of.

[flpoljunkie]

12. Clinton aides sent journalists Huffpo column criticizing Obama for "planned appearance" w/McClurkin

The Clinton campaign, many journalists say, is the fastest and most aggressive at dealing with blogs. Last week, Clinton aides sent journalists a Huffington Post column criticizing her major Democratic rival, Barack Obama, for a planned appearance with a gospel singer who is hostile to gays. Time blogger Ana Marie Cox posted the item -- but added that Clinton had been endorsed by a minister who preaches against homosexuality. The Clinton camp quickly obtained a correction saying that the minister had praised Clinton but not endorsed her.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/25/AR2007102502421_2.html

[sniffa]

15. thanks

you reminded me i have to go pick up my paycheck from the cLinton campaign.

[Solon]

16. It is friday, picking up my 500 dollars from the Clinton Campaign today...

I get paid cash though, no trace. ;)

[sniffa]

18. damn

aLL i get paid is a $5000 baby bond. x(

[MNDemNY]

19. Did you get the "Donnie" bonus yet? I got mine yesterday.

[sniffa]

24. fuck!

i'm totaLLy getting screwed here. my bonus was being ordered to buy my own insurance. x(

[Mass]

25. What is wrong recognizing that some of the people who protested the most on this board just saw

a way to help their candidate and would have been exactly on the other side if it was Clinton who was attacked.

Sorry, I think that some Obama supporters dropped the ball by refusing to condemn Obama's stubbornness, but some of Clinton's supporters have gone way to far by calling him a bigot. He is no more a bigot than Bill recommending that Kerry supports some of the anti-gay amendments in 04.

(and for the record, you are not one of them, neither are most of the people who have fought for gay rights for years on this board).

[sniffa]

27. anyone with a brain aLready knows that about the hiLLarites

and both they and some obama supporters are cLouding the issue because of it. i've addressed this issue in severaL posts, and most specificaLLy brought it up in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3644618

[ronnykmarshall]

26. If you want direct deposit, I can sign you up.

I'm in charge of the DU payoff .... I mean payroll of the Clinton camp.

[Bluebear]

20. Damn, do i get my bonus even though I am not a Clinton supporter?

[MNDemNY]

22. Of course, there is plenty.

(actually, I support Edwards, at this point)

[William769]

23. Hell yes!

They can't see the forest because of the trees.

[PATRICK]

28. There have been

so many campaigns and supporters "guilty" of these singular trespasses that it would do well to note it, have a simple say and then pass on the whole thing. Reaction generating more prodding and indignation and "thou also" is, I hope, making us realize that DU is made up of people not Skinner's zesty virtual bots.

What are we "above"? The GOP? That's too easy. Put a little more effort into growth and compassion. We keep expecting(hoping) the definitive villain to leap out of the skin our OUR candidate's competitor. That villain is in each of us with that expectation. Let's act more like we expect to support or constructively criticize our sincerely Dem public servants no matter the "revealing" gotcha campaign brouhahas.

Or guess what? You'll get none of them and we get Hitler instead. Even the most mind numbing terrible dem gives us a chance at hope. Let's try to remember that is what our job is to build upon. That is how bad the alternative is. There is precious little hope is the GOP steals another one.

And this after after I make a particularly critical post against Hillary on Iran. Hypocrites unite! The other side does.

[Laurab]

29. It's quite clear to me now - Obama hates the GLBT community

after 50 threads about it, I've finally realized it, so I'll stop supporting the one person who could possibly beat HRC even though she seems to like war a lot, and vote for more war instead :sarcasm:

This IS a legitimate issue, Obama screwed up and should get rid of the guy, but I have not seen a single thread in which his supporters were "cruel". I'm still an Obama supporter, but he needs to do something about this - if you know anything at all about Obama, you would know that the jackass singer doesn't reflect Obama's views. I am disappointed the Obama hasn't realized his mistake and done something to fix it, and I'm hopeful that he will soon, but I am not going to not support him because of this.

I'm not sure who the OP is supporting, but I've noticed he's working overtime on this one. This was a huge gaffe by the Obama campaign. It does not reflect Obama's views, and Obama needs to make that clear. It's as simple as that. If he doesn't straighten it out, it will hurt him. As an Obama supporter, I can only hope he does that. I can't apologize for him, I don't minimize the reaction of the GLBT community, and I can't say anything to prop him up - he needs to do that.

The fact remains that if you have studied Obama at all, you would know these are NOT his views.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ethelk2044]

31. Obama Supporters are not cruel. They Know Obama Supports the GBLT

He has worked on that and we see if with his vote. No we do not listen to those who trys to smear his reputation because of someone else. We look at the whole person. Obama has never said he was against the gay community. However, All I see is that you want rights. Fight for them. Go down to Washington and protest. Push for someone to run for the Senate and the House. To try to Tear Obama down because of someone else? Just does not makes sense. I see your Anger. What happens to your Anger with Hillary. She has a Minister who is Anti Gay. I do not see a single of of your posts pushing for her to do something. African Americans were angry in the 60's they went out and Marched to change it. They did not stop until it happened. I say if you are angry, Tunnel your anger towards something worthy. Get some one from the Gay community to run for the House and the Senate. Only by having them in the House and the Senate will you reach your ultimate goal.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

32. "his reputation" is a matter of his actions, not his pronouncements

[LittleClarkie]

39. Would his votes count as part of his actions?

as opposed to a pronouncement?

[Bluebear]

34. Talking the talk vs walking the walk, Ethel Kay.

[NMMNG]

43. What do you know about what any of us is doing?

We don't need any lectures about fighting for our civil rights--especially not from you. We know exactly what to do and how to do it. Stop trying to deflect attention away from your man. It won't work.

[Laurab]

33. Ok I am dense.

You support Kucinich. That much I see. I would possibly support him, but I'm intent on supporting someone who actually has a possibility of beating HRC - I believe, at least right now, Obama is the only one.

I don't spend all day on here, I mostly try to read the things I'm interested in, and I try to stay away from the bashing posts, but they're hard to avoid. Sorry I don't keep up on everything you post.

I did not make excuses for Obama, nor did I say it wasn't a legitimate issue. He needs to do something about it. I won't "keep it up" because I don't like arguing with close-minded idiots, who apparently don't even read posts before they respond.

I posted a fairly long post yesterday about being distressed about this, because one of my younger brothers is gay, I've seen the struggle of his life, I love him dearly, and I want Obama to do something to correct this huge gaffe. That's all I can hope for. Most important to me, though, is having a Dem win the Presidency - a Dem that isn't Hillary Clinton.

You go right on harping - I'm done.

[geek tragedy]

35. You called his LGBT supporters 'sycophants.'

So boo fucking hoo.

[sniffa]

36. boo yourseLf

a spade is stiLL a spade.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NMMNG]

38. Obama supporter's cruelty on parade:

Why Obama's Gospel Tour won't Hurt him One Bit
Edited on Mon Oct-22-07 12:03 AM by -------
DU is never a good place to do a litmus test on America when it comes to something religious...since there are so many anti-religion people that post here. I, for one, like all of those singers he'll be with even though I don't agree with a lot of their political views. But even though half of DU is enraged, this won't have nearly the level of impact on the national stage that it does here. There are MANY religious/spiritual Democrats...probably moreso than the anti-religion/atheist types anyway.

Good move OBAMA!!!



----- (1000+ posts) Mon Oct-22-07 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Fact is, it wouldn't matter what religious person Obama showed up with
...because he would still be attacked on DU. It is ANTI-RELIGION point blank...period!



----- (1000+ posts) Mon Oct-22-07 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #41
54. Maybe I should ask all of you anti-religion people the same?


-----(1000+ posts) Mon Oct-22-07 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. READ WHAT THE FUCK I'M WRITING!!!
I'm saying many of the people who are attacking Obama because of his gospel tour are being that way because THEY'RE ANTI-RELIGIOUS!!! Not ALL of them, but MANY of them are. Hence me bringing up the fact that whenever Obama mentions faith...people get upset. It's because THEY'RE anti-religious. I'm defending Obama and his decision...shit.


----- (209 posts) Fri Oct-26-07 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
34. Hillary Supporter Bull Shit Post. Hillary Supporter Bull Shit Post



----- (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-24-07 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. Let me be clear - I don't give a shit
There is no way to change minds if you don't talk to people. We've spent the last 8 years whining about all sorts of wacky ideas on the right, and nothing has changed. Because nobody will talk to them. Obama is. That's the only thing that will work in the long run. If the gay rights groups don't get it, oh well. Let them support Hillary and get nothing. Maybe some day Democrats will figure it out.

Of course there are some really nasty ones that got deleted.

[sniffa]

41. jeez, Lighten up

you're seeing things that aren't there. :eyes:

[trashcanistanista]

44. They are fooling themselves and underestimating

Democrats who view this as a hateful, discrimination issue. As a Democrat I stand in solidarity with the Gay community and for every member of the GLBT community offended by this there are hundreds of non-members who stand behind each one of them. This was a gaffe of huge proportions that should have been rectified immediately. Obama has been written off by many and justifiably so. Civil rigts and human rights are the basics for our party. We build up from there. No one can get in the way of that, not even a qualified likeable candidate like Obama. No one.

[bicentennial_baby]

45. Thank you for your post!!

:applause:

[Tellurian]

46. Yes, an eyes wide open approach is necessary...

Obama's action or inaction is inexcusable and unrepresentative of Democratic Values!

[sniffa]

47. what's that you say? obama supporters stiLL doing this?

weLL then. :kick:

[terrya]

49. They're certainly doing everything they can to rationalize it

[zulchzulu]

51. I guess all Obama supporters are homophobic bigots

Are you happy with that?

So what if I do lots of work over the years for the LGBT community. Heck, I'm a homophobe...must be... I support Obama.

:crazy:

[LadyAziz]

59. NOPE

the average voter doesn't know Mc-whatever his name is.

[sniffa]

60. thanks for proving my point

it must be the audacity of hope thing.