"JOE BIDEN, the grown-up in the race"

[kad7777]

“Given that Iraq is the number one issue facing this country, and it will be for the next few years, wouldn't it be nice to have a president of the United States who’s smarter than his Secretary of State?”
- Iowa House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy

Below is an article from the National Journal magazine

http://nationaljournal.com/rauch.htm

[Captain Hilts]

1. Biden, Dodd, and HRC are the grown-ups. nt

[Kahuna]

5. Yeah. And all those "grownups" aided and abetted * with their IWR

votes. I'll take a youngster with integrity and vision any day over "grownups" using our youth and treasure to advance themselves politically. And one of those grownups you named did it again just this week.

People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

[jillan]

21. Just what we want - another person in the WH that needs on-the-job training.

Been there, done that. No thanks.

[Kahuna]

30. Wha... ALL new presidents get on the job training.

:eyes:

[Kelly Rupert]

7. Despite having the best resume, Richardson is actually seven years old. n/t

[ellacott]

8. I can't put HRC in the same category with Biden and Dodd n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. Me Neither

She's above Biden.

[jillan]

26. You're joking, right?

[Captain Hilts]

25. She's willing to do more than play the room. I give her dap for that nt

[ginchinchili]

2. Thank you for sharing this with us.

Somebody’s got to bring some sanity to the Iraq situation and Biden’s plan sounds like the best place to start. Right now there is no direction on the part of the US and too many different directions on the part of the people who make up Iraq. To help Iraq construct a loose, regional or federalist governing structure will take pressure off of all the major sects in Iraq to be, in effect, king of the mountain. Different people want to be governed differently. It would be much easier to get the people of Iraq to agree on issues such as oil revenues if they are allowed to live under their different preferred set of governing rules. Bush’s ill-advise war “plan” was so poorly researched that it’s astounding that a leader of the most powerful nation in the world would exhibit such inept judgment. We need someone who has done their research to take over.

It’s obvious to me that Sen. Biden is the person best prepared to take on the difficult challenges our country currently faces. Frankly, no other candidate is as well prepared for this task as Sen. Biden. I hope Democrats will stop playing favorites and choose the candidate who is simply the best qualified to stop our national hemorrhaging.

[Captain Hilts]

12. Yes, I'm heading to this conclusion also. nt

[Laurab]

36. I am, too, and I can't believe I am.

I support Obama out of the "front runners", but the more the candidates talk, the more I like Biden. I haven't agreed with many of his votes in the past, he's driven me crazy with the way he would speak so eloquently against something and then vote for it, but I am beginning to believe he is what we need right now.

He's a personable guy, he's real, and he has both a lot of experience, and an actual plan. You don't get a lot of bullshit from him, and I'm getting the feeling he's going to jump up in the polls before too long. He's also as passionate, or more passionate, than many, about ending the war, possibly because he has a son headed over there. I think with Biden what you see is what you get, and I'm glad to see he's getting some positive coverage.

[gateley]

33. Ginchinchili -- EXCELLENT! nt

[OHdem10]

3. Biden and Dodd deserve praise for not being Hornswaggled

by the GOP. They voted against the LibermanKyle Resolution.

Too often we do not look seriously at those who do the right thing
--Just ignore them as we rant on about those who do not do the right
thing.

[PatSeg]

31. Good point

We need to quit listening to the MSM who loves to tear down the candidates, but often ignores their accomplishments, unless those accomplishments involve fundraising!

[gateley]

32. Very well put! Thank you for the "grown up" point. nt

[rucky]

4. I reject the premise...

that the best possible solution is unattainable, immature, unrealistic, and all the other ways people insult and reject the best possible solution. It's cynicism, defeatism and cowardace, cloaked in self-congratualtory smugness and false superiority.

[ginchinchili]

6. It's unclear to me what you are referring to as the "best possible solution."

Just curious, so I can put your post in context.

[rucky]

9. We all want to end the war ASAP

Don't tell us how we can't do that. Tell us how we can. It's not even being presented by the frontrunners as an option anymore, and John Edwards, who supported de-funding the war just a few months ago, basically called Richardson a liar for proposing his plan for immediate withdrawl. What happened that made him reverse his stance? If Richardson has a plan, and Edwards was unable to come up with one that meets the goal of immediate withdrawl, that doesn't make Richardson a liar. You don't shoot down a better solution because you haven't found a way to make it work.

We want universal healthcare. Don't tell me that won't work, when every other developed country has made it work. Maybe Hillary can't make it work, but that doesn't mean it can't work. Other candidates have plans for it, and they deserve a shot. But it's cynical, defeatist, and counterproductive to say it won't work if there's a better plan and it hasn't even been tried.

[rucky]

10. Think New Deal. Think Apollo.

We need big, ambitious thinking and a can-do attitude to undo the damage done to this country.

[ginchinchili]

11. Agreed, but we also have to be able to pay for it.

Just saying, let's do this, let's do that, isn't good enough. We need the "how" part of it.

[rucky]

13. Of course, but you don't make practical considerations

until you've set a plan in motion. If enough people are inspired, the less barriers there will be. That's how good things get done.

[Think82]

18. Richardson is a liar and pandering to the ledft

He is giving us this "let's get out quickly and bring in Muslim forces" bullshit. Muslim forces?! WTF does that mean? They'll be Sunni or Shia!

Basically Richardson is not considering that the region might completely devolve into chaos if we leave or defund the war. He doesn't think negotiations can START UNTIL we pull the troops out?! Seriously? Are we to have peace negotiations with the neighbors while chaos is escalating all around? Seriously?

Also, if you'll notice, Richardson DOES NOT REJECT BIDEN'S PLAN in his speeches. HE just talks aboutthe "crucial difference" between his troops withdrawal and the others. HE also does not have the responsibility of being in Congress so he can easily criticize what congress is not doing.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. I'm Not Going To Crap On Richardson

But he's a late convert to the anti-Iraq war opposition and a recent convert to the "get out now" coalition...

He also said he would leave some lite equipment in Iraq... Why? So the insurgents can have more ammunition to kill one another...

And your point about Muslim forces is well taken... If Muslim peacekeepers were acceptable to Iraqis they would have been there a long time ago...

Why doesn't somebody tell the truth?

Maybe there is no alternative but for us to leave but when we leave there is going to be a big, big mess... That's what happens when you stir up a hornet's nest...

[jillan]

23. Richardson has said numerous times that he supports Biden's plan

the difference being Richardson says he would implement it after he got all the troops out.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. Once Our Troops Are Out We Lose All Leverage

eom

[rucky]

28. That doesn't make him a liar.

You can't prove it won't work until you try it. But that's a good tactic to sell your plan.

Miracle Whip is a LIE, choose Mayonaise!


For the record, I think Biden's plan is thoughtful and worth trying. We just need to pick something and commit, then work out the details. Otherwise, we're stuck in analysis paralysis. All of the candidates should've come forward with the common goal of getting out of Iraq ASAP, but somehow that message has gotten lost in the details - and Iowa's five months out.

We're on route to the General election with no vision, no message, and a mediocre plan - which will put us on equal footing with the Republican.

[gateley]

34. That's my hope for Biden's plan -- we've essentially picked an approach,

let's do it. Even he said there's no guarantees, but in his -- and many others' -- opinion this is the best route at this time, from where we are right now.

And his plan is not open ended. He said on the debate the other night that if the political solution he approaches is not working when he assumes the Presidency, he'd pull out the remaining troops because at that point they'd just be fodder. And that essentially gives a date of January, 2009.

When I think of his plan and heard that statement, I get a feeling of MOTION -- we're closer to actually MOVING TOWARD a solution and withdrawal.

No other candidate has gotten the ball rolling.

With his plan and with him at the helm, I feel hope for the first time in a long time.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. Can Somene Please Tell Me

Can someone please tell me where the United States gets the right to order somebody else's government and carve up their nation?

This isn't the early twentieth century and Joe Biden isn't Mark Sykes, Francois Georges-Picot or Lord Balfour.

[Think82]

16. Again, demsincebirth you don't seem to read my replies to you, so here it is again:

A few key facts about the Biden amendment:

* The legislation does not tell Iraqis what to do. It speaks only to what U.S. policy should be.
* Federalism is not a U.S. or foreign imposition on Iraq. Iraq's own constitution calls a "decentralized, federal system" and sets out the powers of the regions (extensive) and those of the central government (limited). The Constitution also says that in case of conflict between regional and national law, regional law prevails.
* Federalism is not partition. In fact, it's probably the only way to prevent partition or, even worse, the total fragmentation of Iraq.
* Federalism will not accelerate sectarian cleansing; it's the only way to stop it. Iraqis are already voting with their feet, as yesterday's article in the New York Times demonstrates. Before the surge, Iraqis were fleeing their homes at a rate of about 40,000 month; now, it's about 100,000 a month. Unless Iraqis come to some kind of agreement on sharing power peacefully, the cleansing will continue.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. We Wrote Their Constitution...

And we only "amended" it when they screamed bloody murder; especially on the role of religion in the state and the status of women...

Imperialism , chauvinism and ethnocentrism get us in this mess and isn't going to get us out...

A little humility is in order...

[Think82]

19. so what do you think of the Bosnia analogy?

And also , did you actually read that the measure is not to "impose" anything on the Iraqis.

Biden also suggested bringing in the big 5 of the security council and the neighbors to endorse this before taking action.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. We Were On The Side Of The Angels In Kosovo And Bosnia

The former Yugoslavian empire needed a divorce...But we cleaned up after it; we didn't facilitate it...


IMHO, Iraq is a mess...There is going to be a nasty civil war whether we stay or go...Unfortunately the template for Iraq is VietNam not Korea... In Korea we were able to get a stalemate and secure liberty for at least half the nation... The fact that it took South Korea forty or so years to have real liberty is another story...

Things in Iraq will only get worse when we leave... Maybe we will have to leave anyway...

[demommom]

43. Please correct me if I am wrong.(I am sure I did not need to say that,( lol)

Now that we have gotten rid of Saddam,created a mess in Baghdad,oh yea, written their constitution for them(your words)we should say "see ya, you are on your own now",we have another war to start?

[PatSeg]

44. A good way to make Iraq

a REAL training ground for terrorism! Oh the rest of the world would really love us then. Not that we have much respect to lose anymore.

[jillan]

24. A major Sunni leader in Iraq named Hashemi has offered the same plan as Biden's

and he is gaining support - even from the Shi'ites....altho they are not committed to it.

And we all know the Kurds are for it.

I personally find it more than interesting that Biden and a Sunni leader have offered the same plans.
Biden has been to Iraq 8 times. It's becoming more obvious to me that when he goes there he is actually there on a peace keeping mission - not just a photo op like some of the others.

[PatSeg]

47. The naysayers don't want to hear what Iraqis are "for"

the plan, only those who are against it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. If Joe Gets The Nomination I'll Be Happy To Support Him

But saying my candidate is great and your candidate is crap is unnecessarily divisive and counterproductive...

It won't change people's minds but it will harden their hearts...

DSB

[gateley]

35. Hi - I've been posting a link to this site on so many threads that I'm surprised

everyone hasn't seen it. Granted, I get ignored a lot, but i think this is important to look at. It does my heart good to hear from actual Iraqis how they are feeling regarding this.

Especially now, I'm ultra-sensitive to the US going in and "forcing our will" (I'm not quoting you, these are just my quotes). We need to be careful not to decide how things will turn out before they're even implemented or attempted. A la Bushco.

Please, just look at this site and hear from some who this affects directly -- they know far better than we do what they need and want.

Here's a recent post, and I'll include the link: (And please let me know what you think.)


Following Shiite VP’s support, Kurdish leader welcomes Biden-Brownback-Boxer amendment
Sep 29th, 2007 by babylonians
September 28, 2007

Iraq’s Kurdistan region welcomed the recent Senate resolution in regard to federalism in Iraq, underlining that this is the only solution for the Iraqi cause.

“People and government of Kurdistan welcome the U.S. Senate to divide Iraq on federal basis,” the Kurdistan’s presidency, headed by Masoud Barazani, said in a statement received by the independent news agency Voices of Iraq (VOI).

The Senate, at a late hour on Wednesday, approved, with 75 votes for and 23 against, a “non-binding” draft resolution envisaging the division of Iraq into three Kurdish, Shiite and Sunni entities, with a federal government in Baghdad undertaking border security and oil proceed management.

Initiators of the draft said it was “the only solution” to halt violence sweeping the country.

“The federalism does not mean division, but voluntary unity and this is the only solution for the Iraqi cause,” the Kurdish statement also said. “Federalism will guarantee security, democracy and freedom,” it affirmed.

Source: Voices of Iraq

http://babylonians.wordpress.com/

[gateley]

39. I'm with ya. You stated it perfectly. nt

[Froward69]

37. Yes Biden is the old salt

he has the experience to hit the ground running. way far and above the rest.

[gateley]

38. Yep. He's truly earned the right to be called a Statesman. nt

[fishwax]

40. reminds me of what the repubs said when bush was elected

[jillan]

41. fishwax - I have to hand it to you - I have NO idea what the repugs

said when Bush was elected.

I was too busy crying and screaming.

[fishwax]

42. lol! I did some of that too ... but I remember really resenting

the whole "the adults are back in charge" BS. :eyes:

This isn't the first time I've seen the "adult" angle in support of Biden, and I think it, too, is bogus. Fact is, there are several adults in the field ...

[demommom]

45. kick

:kick:

[murbley40]

46. kick