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If Hillary had never been married to Bill would you still consider her "best qualified"?

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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 10:51 PM
Original message
If Hillary had never been married to Bill would you still consider her "best qualified"?
Assuming we vote for the candidate who is best qualified, if Hillary Clinton had never been married to Bill Clinton, would Democrats still consider her the best qualified candidate running?
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. I can't speak for all Democrats
but in answer to your thread title. Yes.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. And your reasons?
Do you really think she's more qualified than Joe Biden? More personable than John Edwards, or have a more convincing argument for change than Barak Obama? Why is she most qualified if you separate her from Bill?
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. In the fewest words possible
She has judgement, presence and experience that combined is more credible than the other candidates.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #17
37. Interesting.
Have you always supported her values or have you had to re-interpret what you feel is fair and humane to continue supporting someone running on a platform of: Profit trumps health care, Profit trumps domestic jobs, Power trumps peace? Those are not democratic values nor do they reflect good judgment or the ability to learn from past mistakes. As far as credibility goes, I cackle at the thought. Just as she does every time she's asked a tough question from another candidate or the media.

Sorry this consumer isn't buying what she's selling even if she thinks she can make it mandatory for me to do so. Yet a fool and his money are soon parted.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. You just need to take more
Edited on Fri Sep-28-07 01:00 AM by Jim4Wes
lessons in politics I think.


You have a black and white view that cannot be reconciled with reality.


Your assertions against her are not based on reality.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. I do not need to be schooled.
Cognitive Dissonance is alive and rampant and from my past experience, I know that I'd be wasting my time discussing this further with you as it appears you are caught in the throes.

My assertions are grounded in reality and fact, tho it would appear that yours are more faith based considering the events of the last decade.
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yep
Just means she would have been elected to the senate 8 years sooner.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. Nope
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 10:59 PM by Armstead
She's a halfway decent Senator with one term on her belt. That's about it.
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Rageneau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. With or without Bill, she'd still one of the smartest, best informed, most experienced candidates...
to ever run for President.

She's not smart because she loves Bill.

Bill loves her because she's smart.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. You think she's more experienced than Biden or Dodd?
Just how would this woman who came up in Arkansas be successfully running for president today if she hadn't been married to Bill? In fact, it's seriously hard to conceive of her being senator of New York if she hadn't married Bill.
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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #7
34. She doesn't come from Arkansas
and would never have moved there if it hadn't been for Bill. She's from Chicago, but since she was schooled in Massachusetts, she may very well have settled in NY anyway.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
33. I like your post.
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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. No...............Her name recognition would be no were near what...
it would take for a female to be seriously considered for the White House had she not been married to Bill.
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reality based Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. Bill Clinton, no dummy himself, seems to have been pretty impressed with her
intellectual abilities over the years. Anyone who can come into New York State and master it as she has done shows great political acumen. She has learned from both his and her own mistakes. She also seems able to attract and make use of a pretty good brain trust of advisors-- something that gets overlooked often when evaluating politicians. She's not your average second term Senator.
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rusty quoin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. If she had not been married to Bill,
she would not have all this right wing lying made bogus storied Mellon Schaife financed bullshit aimed and ready to fire at her.
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. The right wing smears have been mostly good for her
It just means they can't dig anything new up. Everything they try to throw at her is old news.
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rusty quoin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I wish I could believe you. I'll try.
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ElizabethDC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
10. It's impossible to tell
the entire trajectory of her life would have been different. It's possible that she could have achieved even greater things without him.

Bill often tells the story of how, when they were dating in law school, she tried to convince her to leave him, because he knew that he'd go back to Arkansas and run for office, but he felt that she'd have better opportunities elsewhere, and he encouraged her to go home and run for office. But she told him that she wasn't interested in holding political office.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #10
39. Actually he wanted her to leave because he was dating another woman.
In fact when she went to Arkansas to follow him she found out about the other woman. Hillary wasn't interested in political office at the time.She was interested in Bill who wasn't that interested in her except to talk to. he definitely felt she "would have better opportunities elsewhere", but not with him.But she hung on and got her man though she always knew he would never be faithful. In some ways I find that sad. Much of this is in David Brock's book, "The Seduction of Hillary Rodham Clinton." Brock's book was the one that was supposed to be an RW hit piece and ended up a compliment as Brock not only left the GOP but ended up admiring Hillary.
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ElizabethDC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. That's all speculation
and I'm not sure that Bill would be telling his story now if that was the case. Besides, Bill was the one who proposed to Hillary - several times, in fact, because she kept saying "no."
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. And you version is not speculation? Were you there? I think that they are a very
complementary couple.I also think Hillary is very bright and Bill appreciates that about her.And I think they have a "real" marriage.I also think he was not faithful and was not enamored of her to begin with.There are way too many accounts of his cheating on her even before their marriage.Some of those stories were told by his mother, who did not initially care for Hillary at all.But what does it matter? I admire their marriage They are a great team now and a partnership.But she still doesn't get my vote in the primary! LOL! ;-)
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. When the 2 of them met, SHE was the one destined for a political career
Hillary was already involved in politics while in college, from what I've read, and was much further along in her public-service "apprenticeship" than Bill.

Bill Clinton is acknowledged by many to be a political "natural" however -- it's that charisma thing. Even I can feel it, and I'm much more of a "head" person. I was in a crowd of several thousand Democrats years ago when he came to speak at a local college campus. When he finished speaking and came down to press the flesh, the crowd surge lifted me off my feet. He shook my hand, and by gods, even I felt it. No wonder so many women fall over backwards when he looks at them.

Both of the Clintons are formidably bright and well-informed. Both of them are highly focused and continually educating themselves about everything under the Sun. All Hillary lacks is Bill's native charm.

Hillary Clinton is certainly among the best-qualified people in politics to be the President of the United States. She certainly is head and shoulders above any Republican in the field.

Hekate

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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Hillary was on magazine covers before she even met Bill
She was a celebrity in her own right.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. What magazine covers?
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ElizabethDC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I don't think she was actually on the cover, but she was featured in Life Magazine
because of her 1969 Wellesley College commencement speech.
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. She WAS on the cover
It's a picture of her wearing her cute glasses lol. I'm trying to find the picture.
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ElizabethDC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Here's the pic


But I'm pretty sure she wasn't on the cover.
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. When she was student body president in college
She organized a student strike on behalf of the civil rights movement, and there's an old picture of her on the front of a magazine (I'll try to find the picture).
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
15. You need to take a look at her resume.
Those who knew them early thought she probably married Bill for his good looks and he married her for her connections and political experience, plus her intelligence. Actually he has been a drag on her career.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
19. Hillary? Best qualified?
Who the hell said that?
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rusty quoin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
21. I haven't read any books on the Clintons except
Joe Conasen' The Hunting of a President
And I love the description of Bill's contempt for the ruling people who wanted to keep things like they were in Arkansas. You know, the bigots. I know that Hillary thinks that way and at least that will make me feel better if she is president.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
22. IF she were to win the nomination of the Democratic Party ...
Then she would be the candidate .... If she does not, then she won't be ....

The criteria for 'best qualified' is highly subjective, and would compare to asking who writes the best songs, or who paints the best pictures .... There is simply no accounting for any of this when human choice is involved ....

Hence .... a nearly meaningless question ...
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
25. Well, to be fair, where would Obama or Edwards be without their spouses?
Sure, Hillary had a President for a husband, but can you seriously imagine Edwards being where he is right now without Elizabeth?


(And BTW, I don't think Hillary is "best qualified" to be dog catcher. I just don't think this is a particularly strong argument against her.)
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fairplay Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Hillary
I don't trust Hillary. I feel like a goose with the corp. media shoving Hillary down my gagging throat!
If DLC Hillary is the Dem. candidate I will not vote for President. She gave Bush cover to invade and occupy Iraq. I will never forgive her for that!!!!!!!!
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
27. Bill would never have been president without Hillary, if she married someone else, the else
would probably been president.
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TheUniverse Donating Member (954 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
28. She's not the best qualified period.
She voted for the Iraq War, she just voted for action in Iran, and her healthplan is horrible. Dennis Kucinich is the best qualified.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Roger that Dennis Kucinich is the best qualified.
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
29. Hillary would not even be in the race. she is purely a product of her last name
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #29
35. you're too smart to post this.
Edited on Fri Sep-28-07 12:29 AM by emilyg
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
31. If Edwards never went to law school
and never became a trial lawyer and made millions so he could afford to run for office would he be running for President?

If, If, If.....
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
32. Absolutely.
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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
36.  A lot of her "experience" comes from her time in the WH, however...
Edited on Fri Sep-28-07 12:34 AM by calteacherguy
the question is irrelevant. We don't know what Hillary's life would have been like, or how "experienced" she would be if she had not married Bill. It's an impossible question to answer.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #36
43. What an intellectual answer
:)
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bigdarryl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #36
45. so that means Laura Bush has the experience to run for president by your criteria
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-28-07 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
44. I think not because if Bill Clinton did not have the charisma to get elected President
I think Hillary would just be a very successful advocate somewhere. She has the brains and work ethic to succeed and while I am not sure that Bill could have been elected without her management, that is a different thing than having to be elected on your own. It is like picturing Carville or Begala as President because then ran a successful campaign.
Hillary has no charisma.She doesn't have the charm to be elected on her own.So she is being touted as a "resume"candidate because of her association with the man who "had" the charm to be elected.

I realize some will point to her Senate election as proof that she can "win on her own" but she didn't.She was still painted with the glow of Bill Clinton.And she also had the benefit of being the 'wronged wife". No, Hillary would not even be noticed on the landscape of today's politics if she had never been married to Bill.
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