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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:23 AM
Original message
MoveOn.org Ad highly unpopular with the American people...including a majority of Liberals...

Twenty-three percent (23%) of Americans approve of an ad run in the New York Times that referred to General Petraeus as General Betray Us. A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 58% disapproved. Those figures include 12% who Strongly Approve and 42% who Strongly Disapprove.

Self-identified liberals were evenly divided45% approve and 39% disapprove. However, only 19% of moderate voters approve while 62% disapprove.

Forty-seven percent (47%) of all adults say that stunts like the MoveOn.org ad hurt the cause they believe in. Only 12% believe they help the cause while 17% say there is no impact. Twenty-four percent (24%) are not sure. Again, political liberals are divided with 27% saying they help and 32% taking the opposite view. Fifty percent (50%) of moderates and 57% of conservatives say that these sorts of events hurt the cause the group is trying to promote.


The only saving grace is that a significant chunk of people aren't paying close attention...


Just 23% said they followed stories of the ad Very Closely while another 23% said they were following it Very Closely. Overall, 49% were not paying much attention.

Twenty-three percent (23%) of American adults have a favorable opinion of MoveOn.org while 39% have an unfavorable opinion. Thirty-eight percent (38%) dont know enough to have an opinion one way or the other. Survey respondents were asked their opinion of MoveOn.org before the New York Times ad was described.


http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics...

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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
1. As long as the conservative right-wing press controls the debate, this shit will continue. n/t
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
2. So this poll proves Markos' point -- most Americans don't care about an ad
Only 23% paid attention to the news on the ad. That also proves that the Reich wing failed to make the ad the most important issue of the debate.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. In terms of next years election...it is probably a wash...but...
In terms of putting pressure on Bush to change course, it was very harmful. Completely took the focus off of Patreus's report and allowed Bush to claim it supported his view of the situation...while the media and Republicans predictably focused on the ad...

It was childish and stupid, and completely unnecessary...MoveOn is clearly not yet ready to be a significant player...
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
17. I think it will help us next year at election time for the same reason
that it hurt us with antiwar legislation in the short run. Wavering repub senators voted against the Webb amendment and others, partially due to the manufactured outrage against the MoveOn ad, which will come back to haunt them in '08. Great news for us in terms of next year's election because it will cost the repubs senate seats, but bad news in that Bush gets to keep his war going until a Dem takes over in '09.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
27. As usual, my friend
Edited on Tue Sep-25-07 02:42 PM by ProudDad
you ain't got a clue, do you?

They ALREADY ARE A SIGNIFICANT PLAYER...

The ad and the aftermath completely derailed cheney/bush's carefully conceived scripted plan to use gen. betrayus (a name given to him by his troops, by the way) to further pull the wool over everyone's eyes...

and incidentally raised over a million dollars for more actions...

Way to GO, MoveOn.ORG...
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #27
53. Agree that the ad was a great success for MoveOn. Lots of donations,
new members, and free publicity.

Don't agree that it "completely derailed cheney/bush's carefully conceived scripted plan to use gen. betrayus (a name given to him by his troops, by the way) to further pull the wool over everyone's eyes...". Bush hoped that Petraeus' testimony would pave the way for a continuation of the "surge" and derail antiwar legislation which was even attracting wavering repub senators due to growing antiwar sentiment over the summer.

Unfortunately, as far as Bush was concerned, Petraeus' testimony worked.
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jmp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
3. 58% of Americans ...
Don't know who the hell "David Petraeus" is.

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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
54. Twenty-three percent (23%) of Americans approve of an ad run in the New York Times
That is twice as many as approve of Congress.
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
4. I personally don't think the ad helps anything...
My main problem with it is calling a career military general basically a traitor to the country. I don't think that helps anyone. If they'd put out a simple ad with a picture of him and stuck to the issues without name calling, it would have been received a lot better.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Petraeus is the guy that "found" the Biological Weapons Trailer
U.S. Troops Find Second Biological Weapons Trailer Near Mosul, May 13, 2003

(Defense Department Report)

Washington -- Troops from the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne Division -- stationed in northern Iraq and headquartered in Mosul -- have found what military authorities believe may be a second mobile biological weapons laboratory, says the division commander.

"The suspected mobile biological agent production lab found on 9 May in our area was found by one of our infantry units during operations at the al-Kindi Rocket and Missile Research and Development Center," Major General David Petraeus said May 13 during a briefing from Mosul. "Our own chemical section looked at the trailer and confirmed it as a trailer that was very close to identical to the first trailer that was found by Special Forces southeast of here last week."

Petraeus said he spoke with experts May 13, and they have a "reasonable degree of certainty that this is in fact a mobile biological agent production trailer."

http://italy.usembassy.gov/viewer/article.asp?article=/...
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. HE IS A TRAITOR
and "an ass-kissing little chickenshit."

As is Colon (typo intended) Powell.

Regardless of past good (says who? BTW) acts, when you sell out your country, and betray the truth for personal and future political gain, you are a traitor.

If the shoe fits ....
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. They were just repeating the name
that his troops gave him...
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
5. Did they take those polls after the swift boat ads, I wonder...
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Don't know...
I'm sure they did...
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. I wonder...
Edited on Tue Sep-25-07 09:32 AM by redqueen
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. Los Angeles Times did a poll on this
and so did Time- http://www.time.com/time/election2004/article/0,18471,6...
"Swift Boat Attack Ads

A whopping 77% have seen or heard about the ads attacking Kerry's Vietnam military service record. A majority (56%) who saw the ads say it's just politics as usual. However, the ads sowed at least some doubt about Kerry's Vietnam war record in the minds of about 1 in 3 voters (35%) who saw the ads and say there's "some truth" to the accusations.

What impact did the ads have? Most voters who saw the ads say they had no impact (72%) on their vote intentions. About equal numbers say the ads made them more anti-Kerry (13%) or more pro-Kerry (14%).

* The ads did have some negative impact against Kerry among swing voters. Almost 1 in 4 swing voters (25%) who saw the ads say that there's some truth to the accusations.

The bigger question, looking at the overall picture, is whether these ads diverted Kerry's attention from other campaign issues, particularly the economy. Kerry's previous edge over Bush in handling the economy disappeared in the past few weeks."
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
8. I loved it! Long past time to take the gloves off. nm
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
11. The kids at that college in Colorado got it - Fuck Bush and his little tin soldier
Let Betrayus get the US out of this mess and then we'll talk.

But, as long as Betrayus continues to enforce Bush's policy of "stay the course", he can eat shit on a shingle for the rest of his life!
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Stargazer99 Donating Member (943 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
12. My first response was "is this post by a RWer?
I read the ad and no way is it insulting of the services or the general. any one with half a brain knows Petraeus is only going to sound the Bush administration stuff or he would have gotten fired like the other generals who were strong enough to tell it like it is. Of all the crap, what in the hell is wrong with you lefites, liberals and progressives?
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. The answer to your first response
Edited on Tue Sep-25-07 02:44 PM by ProudDad
is that in the context of DU --- and by any reasonable definition of "liberal" or "Progressive"...

"YES"...
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
50. Yes - to answer your first response...
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poverlay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
13. Put me in the "highly approve" column. Petraeus' credibility is questionable and everyone should
know it.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
15. It's the kind of advertising Madison Avenue can only dream about...
And the message simply won't die. Long after it's expiration date, American's on every side of the aisle are still talking about, still debating it and still wringing their hands over it. It's the kind of advertising Madison Avenue can only dream about...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
16. Another win for conservatism. The media has the power.
They lied about the NYT rate to Move On. They twisted it

Most people never saw the ad until the media was hyping against it.

I see people here at DU who take such satisfaction in putting down anyone with passion and caring.

I am glad I don't need to worry about my primary vote anymore. Now I know that I could not have made a difference anyway.

And there will be no feelings of guilt as we stay in Iraq and go on to Iran....spreading Democracy. Read the Ideas Primary.
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. And most people still haven't actually READ it.
I doubt most would have a problem with the ad's sentiment if they weren't being told night and day by the corporate media that the dirty fucking hippies are strangling the "Democrat" party.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
18. They made themselves into an albatross for a few days, but they probably see it otherwise
Making Petraeus a victim took the heat off Bush and forced Democrats to play patriot games, culminating in the Cornyn Amendment, which was a no-win proposition for our side. A dumb and unproductive exercise courtesy of a too-cute-by-half ad copywriter. MoveOn got lots of attention and probably more money out of the deal; hopefully, that doesn't lead to a repeat.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Whether there was a MoveOn ad or not....the results would have been the same
in the votes. The media makes silk purses out of pigs ears and vice versa because it's in there interest to do so.
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. We'll never know how Webb's amendment would have fared without the ad.
The RW was able to whip up hysteria about it and influence some GOP senators. There were analysts on both sides who thought it had a chance of passing and did in fact attract 6 GOP senators. There were others who were waivering. Gordon Smith was one of the repubs who voted for the amendment and his opinion was that the ad probably cost us some more votes. No one knows if that is true or not, but it wouldn't have taken many more votes for the amendment to pass.

In the long run ('08) I still think the MoveOn ad is a winner for us. Even though it may have cost us a few GOP votes on the Webb amendment, then those GOPers who stuck with Bush instead will pay the price in the next election.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. It was decided before the ad....
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Hindsight is always 20-20.
Many analysts, including Webb and Smith, thought otherwise and did not share your ability to predict the future. I suspect some at MoveOn thought they could make a difference in the votes, as well, hence the timing of the ad. That possibility is painful to consider now, so I understand the desire to dismiss it.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. it's moveon's fault the dems have no spine..
any self-respecting dem with a brain would havwe abstained from cornhole's amendment. instead, the fucking repubs make the dems look like the cowering pussies they are. pure p@wnage by the repubs on this one. fool me once...
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
23. Funny, they didn't bother to ask if anyone had READ it.
Stupid poll. Stupid issue.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
25. Sorry but that's just a right-wing talking point...
...of non-elected liberals I would venture a guess that the approval was sky-high, of the number of people elected to office by those very same liberals approval was way-low...
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
26. So, did they disagree with the message per se or are they
afraid of how it will tip other people's thinking?
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
30. 39% is not a majority of self-identified liberals
Please change your headline to omit the distortion.

How about you, Elmer? Did you disapprove of the ad? Do you feel that Generals are beyond reproach? Do you agree with Ghouliani that such speech should be illegal?
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HowHasItComeToThis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
33. RASMUSSEN IS AN ORANGE COUNTY REPUBLICAN PROPAGANDIST
CASE CLOSED
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #33
56. Thank You
Enough said.
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Sufficient Voice Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
34. You know I don't even think it was the best framed ad,
Or did the best job it could have addressing Bush hiding behind Petraeus. But Moveon.org certainly had a right to post it. And without Congress going crazy over it. And without the major media acting like 23% of Americans that agree with that ad (and Moveon's entire membership) constitute an insane fringe group. It seems like Bush isn't the only one hiding behind Petraeus, but 3/4s of Congress and 39% of America.
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fenriswolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
35. I call BS, don't trust the polls, they lie and are owned by the people who own the wh
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Progressive Friend Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
36. How many of them know that Petraeus is even despised by Admiral Fallon?
Oh course the corporate media and the Rasmussen pollsters "forgot" to inform the American people and those participating in the poll about that.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/II14Ak02.html
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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
37. I thought the DEMOCRATIC PARTY made that ad
At least that's what I heard on the teevee....





:sarcasm:
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
38. 80% of people
didn't give a shit about the MoveOn ad until it pointed out to them as something bad.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
39. Help me understand:
In your thread title you say:
"MoveOn.org Ad highly unpopular with the American people...including a majority of Liberals..."

Yet, in the body of your post, you quote (and even boldface):
"Self-identified liberals were evenly divided45% approve and 39% disapprove"

Do you read your own posts?


I even disagree with the partisan interpretation of the source you quoted.
I don't call 45% to 39% "evenly divided".
It would be more accurate to say:
Self identified Liberals decisively approve of MoveOn's ad.


It may be too late to correct your OP, but it is not too late to post a retraction.


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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. elmer didn't make a "mistake"
it's what he meant to say to try and sucker people who only skim thread titles and OPs...
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. My bad.
The Hillary avatar should have clued me that it was no mistake.
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. It's really insulting that he would lie so blatantly on this board
Apparently he has no respect for DU and its members and feels it permissible to spread outright propaganda here.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. yeah, pretty much.
sad.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #41
51. It's what he does - he THINKS he's "good" at it...
WE know otherwise...

Maybe I'll give ANOTHER hundred bucks to MoveOn - that'll bring it to THREE hundred bucks...

Thanks elmerfudd - you just bought MoveOn more money...
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
40. 23% of Americans having a favorable opinion of MoveOn
...is a lot of people.

What percent of Americans have a favorable opinion of the Christian Coaltion?
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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
43. Good thing they made 2 million in 2 days, that kind of scratch can change a lot of minds.
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
45. Well then, that just shows how stupid liberals are!
:sarcasm:
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
46. Mea Culpa...my mistake on the precentages among liberals...
I read it quickly and posted an incorrect subject line...my apologies!!!

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MODemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
48. There seems to be a misconception that anyone in uniform doesn't lie
I would like to remind them of the great General Colin Powell who wore a Uniform, lying blatantly about weapons of mass destruction, over and over again. General Petreus is also not above lying in order to cover for George W. Bush.
:nopity:
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
49. Sure - that's why they're raking in record donations...
Oh wait - it's from saveElmer - we're not surprised...

Don't you have a "Chavez is a dictator" post to create or something?
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
52. I didn't particularly like the timing of the ad
I thought they should at least have waited until he testified. But I would support all the way their right to run it.
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Kuni Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
55. Did the Poll ask if people were aware that the latest Pentagon report supports Move-Ons claims?
This sounds like a Push Poll.

An honest Poll would ask: Seeing that Petraeus has a long history lying about the situation in Iraq, and the latest official Pentagon Report supports the fact that violence has NOT gone down in Iraq; do support the Move-On Ad?
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