Reality for Dems, from the mouths of babes

[MagsDem]

My kid is barely 15 years old. He's smart, and politically aware. His girlfriend of some months is 17. Since it's been some months I wanted to meet her. Seems like this is more than just a fling... yeah, it's true love. For now, at least.

So, we all went to dinner as a family. And we had a nice time. She has good values, just like my son. Some stuff just comes out in conversation, and I could tell. She is a good soul.

So we go home and we play this game called apples to apples. It's very fun, especially with a lot of people. The basic premise is you have 7 red cards in your hand that represent something -- people, places, things, adjectives, descriptive terms, etc. One person per round draws a green card and everyone else throws out a red card that matches as best as possible. The card judged best to match the green card (by the person drawing the green card) wins. You win 7 green cards, you win the game.

So someone pulls the green card "Democrat" and my son's girlfriend (all of 17) throws out the card that says "coward" to match against it. Guess who won that round? Hands down I might add. Wasn't even close.

Nancy, Harry, Hilary, Obama, Biden, all you senate dems, and house leaders, can you hear me? Even a 17 year old kid (and the 15 year old, too) see you as cowards for not standing up to Bush and the GOP.

How can you not see this for yourselves???? Please, stand up to them, or you will continue to lose one generation after the next.

[MonkeyFunk]

1. Excuse me if I don't cheer

that some brat calls my party "cowards".

[liberaltrucker]

6. Truth is truth, my friend

Reid, Pelosi, have caved to * at every opportunity.

That's being a coward in my book.

[MonkeyFunk]

9. It's only your perception.

There are many sites out there to attack the integrity and character of Dems. I prefer to defend them.

[MagsDem]

10. You can defend them to your dying day

But that isn't going to change the world, or even this country. I posted this story not to attack Dems. I love the Democratic party. But the truth is they are letting people down, and if even our children notice, well it becomes hard to deny it's not obvious. Why can't they see it?

[liberaltrucker]

13. I, too defend them

When that defense is warranted. In the current context, they're wrong, and I'll continue to point that out.
Democrats aren't anything near Repukes. We air our differences out. God bless us. :)

[melody]

17. Then why are you trying to weaken the one defense AGAINST the Repukes?

You're not just criticizing -- you're defending someone talking about not voting Democrat which is the same as voting GOP.

[liberaltrucker]

22. Pelosi took impeachment off the table

The defense rests, Your Honor.

[melody]

25. Are you the one in there trying to work with the system? Do you know what they have to go through?

It's very, very easy to be a swaggering idealist when you don't have to deal with the REAL system.

[liberaltrucker]

27. I understand "the system" all too well

No, I'm not some idealist who prefers the status quo. I'm more than willing, if necessary, to
consider other means to achieve our goal. My AK47 is standing by.

[melody]

30. Sorry, I prefer peaceful, legal approaches

Your system isn't any one I'd want to be affiliated with.

[liberaltrucker]

38. OK, fine

Just remember the our Country and Constitution were founded on armed
rebellion against an oppressive government. Our forebears fought for our
rights. If you're not willing to fight for your children's rights, that's
your right that brave people died for. Doesn't sound liberal? Just check out
Thomas Jefferson's writings.

[awoke_in_2003]

51. My favorite Jefferson, from the Dec. of Independance

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness

[Carolina]

58. sometimes force is necessary

exhibits A & B: the American Revolution, the Civil War

Sometimes (often times) with thugs and bullies, words, and for that matter laws, e.g. the US Constitution, mean squat.

When in the course of human events ...

[MagsDem]

28. I deal with the real system

And I think you are wrong. I have dealt with the real system, in the real system, for 20 years. And guess what? I still think it's better to lose your seat if you have to than to be too much of a coward to vote for the principles you ran on. What job is worth having if you can't get up in the morning and be proud of what you do? So I don't buy that stuff about "the system" -- yes, you have to spend too much time raising money, but you sure as heck don't have to vote to support a war that is completely bogus because you're afraid someone is going to call you a traitor for not supporting the troops.

Sorry, this goes WAY beyond what can be excused by being a "practical politician."

[melody]

31. Then you go off to your idealistic corner and leave the vipers to rule the land

You and your scruples can feel much comforted when the vipers destroy us.

[MagsDem]

34. I understand your concerns

But the fact is the public supports the democratic party's point of view. I used to be able to at least tell myself that they were heeding to caution when the mindless public supported the war. But truely, what is their excuse now when the only people that disagree with them are Bush, the GOP, and the elite ruling class in WA DC?

Seriously, have you met many senators or congress people? I have, and it's amazing to me how out of touch they are with anyone outside that DC circle. It's like some kind of disease. And if I had one wish it would be that they put some blinders on when in DC and wake the hell up and look at the rest of the country. The public is with the dem party supporters on this. But it's like they don't even notice.

IOW, there isn't even a good reason for their lack of courage and leadership on this issue. Just none. Sorry. Call it tough love, but I have been paying attention for a long time and that's what I see. I'm no bleeding heart lefty either. It's just so obvious at this point it boggles the mind.

[AndyTiedye]

48. What Table?

There isn't any table. We're still eating scraps off the floor.

[MagsDem]

26. WHAT????

Who said anything about not voting dem???? What a bunch of nonsense. That's not the question at all. The question is shouldn't we expect the people we vote for, contribute to, spend our blood sweat and tears to get elected, to have the courage of their convictions?? That is the ONLY question here. And it's really annoying that you would pretend it's about whether or not to vote dem when I have been very clear in every post that it is not.

[Zodiak]

54. Actually it is not

Not voting Democrat is the same as not voting Democrat.

Sure, a Democrat not winning a person's vote makes it easier for the GOP, which is why the Democrats whould be EARNING VOTES. Not telling people to vote for them or else.

[melody]

16. I suspect we have a lot of visitors today from those other sites, don't you?

It's amazing how many low-post anti-Democratic Democrats we have here today. :)

[MagsDem]

21. Oh please

I am a died in the wool dem... I had over 1000 posts under the name LTRS. I have donated a small fortune to democrats, canvassed and worked the polls like a dog. Don't assume everyone that ceases to have blind faith is some kind of enemy. I truly believe that our party would gain much more than it would lose if our leaders would simply stop worrying what pundit and consultants tell them. Met any politicians in the flesh? If so, you know what I mean.

[melody]

23. If you're LTRS, then I withdraw my objection

However, whenever I see a Democrat-bashing clusterfuck, I always smell trolls with multiple IDs.

[MagsDem]

29. Well, thanks. But I'm not a troll

I bleed Dem and always have. Never once in my life voted for a repuke and damn proud of it. :)

[Zodiak]

55. It's really their last defense

You aren't happy with Democrats, so you MUST be a troll.

Anyone who launches that attack has lost the debate.

[hootinholler]

59. I defend the ones who don't exhibit that certain timidity

That comes with the yellow stripe behind.

There are a few who seem to be less cowardly.

-Hoot

[melody]

12. If you believe that, you're the best friend the GOP has n/t

[liberaltrucker]

18. I beg to differ

I only point out how the leadership in Congress has caved to *. Look it up.

[melody]

20. I more than looked it up -- I know it by heart. Why don't you stand up for your own people?

There are Democrats in there right now risking their lives to save us. I meant that sincerely. Just
because your candidate isn't going to be the nominee (MY candidate is, was and always will be Gore),
doesn't mean you can sit this out and not have the blood of the country on your hands.

[regnaD kciN]

33. I doubt that's what she means by "cowards"...

More likely, she's gotten it drummed into her brain that Democrats are cowards because they aren't willing to defend us from those Big Bad Terraists by Any Means Possible -- such as invading any country that the neocons say poses a threat, or not being strong enough to realize that, to defend the American people, we can't let something as trivial as "civil liberties" stand in the way. Probably with a heaping topping of Democrats being effiminate weaklings who want to penalize the successful and coddle those who can't handle the competition of surviving in The Big Hard World Out There.

:grr:

[melody]

35. That's the big meme talking point for the GOP in 08 - cowards, etc.

That does seem like the direction it was headed.

[MagsDem]

40. Yeah, I don't think the GOP will be....

Calling Dems cowards because they refused to stick up to Bush though. Unfortunately, lots of voters will be thinking exactly that if they don't get off their butts and oppose him with every strength of their being. Let's get real here -- lots of Dems think that, even if they have no intention of voting for a GOP candidate. Maybe you don't agree, but you know in your heart it's true.

The county voted them in power to oppose Bush. That can't be more clear. What is the word you would use to describe them if they won't do that?

[melody]

41. Doesn't matter -- the word will be out there. It's a psychological ploy

Rove was a master at it -- using one word, pounding it home and destroying the Democrats with it by getting our own
people to do their work for them.

They've neutralized us by making us turn against ourselves. I'm all for criticizing the party but at the same time,
I know the Bushbots and the neocons ... these are evil, dangerous people ... ANYONE who enters government as a Democrat
is doing it as an act of valor and courage. They're in there fighting for us when they'd make a lot more money and
gain more power by batting for the other team. Cowards they are not.

[MagsDem]

43. So the Dems should help the GOP

By proving it? I'm sorry, it isn't an act of valor or courage to enter government as a Democrat and then cave to Bush and the GOP at nearly every turn especially WHEN the public supports you opposing them. There is nothing even practical about that, let alone courageous. Frankly, it's just blind stupidity at this point. And you know what else it is? It's a kneejerk reaction by Dems who have been cowed by Rovian talking points for 13 years. Politicians that are cowed by a sleazebag like Rove and the Bushbots are politicians that need to find another line of work. IMHO.

[melody]

45. You're the one asserting that the GOP is right about them, not I

I disagree with you entirely.

We're talking in circles ... there is nothing else to be said. Have your last word and I'm going to go finish working for the day.
George Bush will probably cripple the dollar even worse by next month and, at this rate, we'll have even more GOP to contend with ...
thanks to the Democrats who insist upon perfection and having things their way.

[MagsDem]

46. It isn't just the GOP, which is my point

An opposition party is useless unless they have the guts and the will to REALLY oppose the worst president and the most corrupt GOP in history. If you can figure out how a Democratic party that kowtows to Bush and the GOP about the most significant problem in our history benefits the country, please do PM me and let me know. Far as I can tell the country gave them a majority and they are flat out afraid to use it.

I'm 46 and have been following politics for 25 years. As far as I can tell this is not a good thing for our country, nor will it get more Dems elected. So I'm having troubling seeing the upside to it. My kid is 15. If they keep caving into the right we'll have a draft by the time he is eligible. Next stop is Iran. Do you really, in your heart, trust the Dems in office to stop that if they can't stop funding Iraq?

Sorry, this caving is getting personal with me. I'm sure lots of folks feel that way at this point.

[AndyTiedye]

49. They Are Under Far Graver Threats Than Rovian Talking Points

Just ask the late Senator Wellstone



Or ask Congressman Gillmor, who just died under rather suspicious circumstances last week while investigating why someone bought billions of put options
that expire at the end of this week. Whoever bought them is betting on the mother of all market crashes. Yes, he was a Republican, but he was obviously
getting too close to something.

Or ask Senator Leahy or former Senator Daschle about the nice letters they received.

Or ask Mel Carnahan…

[MagsDem]

No, sorry, you're wrong

She thinks Bush and the GOP are the terrorists. Her concern is purely about the Dems not sticking up for what they believe in.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. What a great story, my dear MagsDem...

You tell it so simply and this increases its power...

And a little child shall lead them...

Thank you...

K&R

[liberaltrucker]

7. Hi, Peggy!

Out of The Lounge?

:hi:

See Post 6.

:loveya:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

14. My dear liberaltrucker!

I do wander abroad now and then, looking for my friends!

And I saw your most excellent post, sweetie!

Nicely put...

:loveya:

[NOLALady]

3. Cowards vs

Lying, Thieving, Murdering Thugs. I know I left out some adjectives.

[MagsDem]

5. That's so true

And like me, I can never see this kid voting for a Republican because of just what you said. It's not a hard choice to choose between. Her beliefs are strong. Like mine and most people here. But aren't you sick of having to vote for a party that will not stand up and believe in itself? That's the basic problem here. As I see it anyway.

I'm so tired of supporting a party that is right on all the important things, but seems so afraid to stand up and say it proudly.

[melody]

4. "Dems", hm?

My, it's amazing how anti-Democratic some of the "Dems" are sounding.

Sorry, as angry as I am at the Democrats, at least I see them as flawed human beings -- the GOP is filled with monsters.
Monsters versus cowards? Hmmm, wonder which I'd choose. ;)

[MagsDem]

8. You're not tired of supporting a party....

Just because IF they were courageous enough to stick up for what's right the world would be a better place? I will always vote Dem because of the agenda, but I'm sorry, I have no great expectation they will be brave enough to enact it. Not after the last round of Iraq funding.

The story here is not how you and I will vote... the story is that whole generations are being raised seeing with their own eyes that our Dems will just not stick up for the agenda they believe in.

[melody]

11. No, the story here is whether we'll have a damned country in the first place!

Stick up for our agenda? Do you really think we have a choice? This system requires money to fund the
election process. The Democrats that are going to be in the race are the ones that know how to raise
funds. They HAVE to have money to BEAT these monsters? Think of Bill Clinton versus George Bush --
Bill isn't more liberal than Hillary. Forget the damned polemic and the fanciful idealism ... do you
want our own country or not? The GOP has been put in place to destroy us. The Democrats are our only
recourse, like it or not.

[MagsDem]

19. Again, I will always vote for Democrats

That's not the issue. And will fund them too. The issue is when will they stand up to the GOP and Bush? How long do we have to wait? All the opinion polls show the country is with them on the war issue, yet they still will not say no to Bush. Why? Why are they so obviously afraid of the pundits and the media when it's clear the country is with them?

Sorry, they look like cowards. I have been saying for a decade now that the Dems would win hands down all across this country if they would simply stick up for what they believe in, without equivocating, hedging, or sticking their fingers in the air to see which way they wind is blowing. When I hear young kids about to be voters who have the SAME values but have NO faith in the democratic party I can't help but point it out. Our "leaders" need to wake up and realize their political and the country's fortunes lay in standing up for what they believe in. Steadfastly, and without fear.

[Totally Committed]

61. This is one of those posts that makes me wish we could recommend

individual posts within a thread. What a cogent answer!

Maybe we should change our name to the "If Ever" Party for what could happen "if ever" the people we elect find their spines.

Awesome post!

TC

[BootinUp]

15. Sort of how the right frames the Democrats n/t

[MagsDem]

24. So explain to me how it isn't true?

Did you not want to literally puke when they voted for more Iraq funding? Can you not get sick at your stomach watching them seem to be contemplating it again? They are in the majority. So what if Bush vetos the bills they send. They should send them one after another after another after another. If they can't stop this senseless Bush agenda at least they can show the public they oppose it, not just in rhetoric, but right down to their principles.

Ask yourself this -- can you really imagine being in office yourself and voting to compromise on this when you know how senseless it is, how many innocent people will die, how much money is wasted that your kids will have to pay for eventually? What if their were a draft? Would you not move heaven and earth to stop your kid from having to go?

There's your answer about what they should do.

[melody]

32. Saying that, tell us how you are NOT agreeing with them. n/t

[MagsDem]

39. Them who?

Pretty clearly what I just described bears no resemblance to what the repuke dead-enders believe.

[melody]

42. The GOP - you specifically said they were right

Sort of how the right frames the Democrats n/t Jim4Wes Sep-18-07 04:54 AM #15
-> So explain to me how it isn't true? MagsDem Sep-18-07 05:05 AM #24 <-

You are saying that what the right frames the Democrats as is true.

Therefore, you are agreeing with them.

[MagsDem]

44. You ignored the body of my post

They are acting as cowards, and I described why people see them that way:

Did you not want to literally puke when they voted for more Iraq funding? Can you not get sick at your stomach watching them seem to be contemplating it again? They are in the majority. So what if Bush vetos the bills they send. They should send them one after another after another after another. If they can't stop this senseless Bush agenda at least they can show the public they oppose it, not just in rhetoric, but right down to their principles.

Ask yourself this -- can you really imagine being in office yourself and voting to compromise on this when you know how senseless it is, how many innocent people will die, how much money is wasted that your kids will have to pay for eventually? What if their were a draft? Would you not move heaven and earth to stop your kid from having to go?

There's your answer about what they should do.

[BootinUp]

53. The answer is not complicated, and it isn't about

cowardice or compromise. The American public does not support cutting off funds to troops deployed in war. That is not what they want the Dems to do. Ending the war is going to take some Republicans too.

[dpbrown]

36. Ain't that the truth

If you can't stop the worst President in history, how are you going to protect us if we vote you into power?

[MagsDem]

37. I think that's actually the bottom line

That's where they lose folks that aren't Dem by heart. Thanks for putting it in a nutshell.

[sandnsea]

47. The impatience of youth

That I understand. It's not so attractive in their parents.

[MagsDem]

50. Waiting 13 yrs for them to stand up to the GOP

.... is not impatient by any stretch.

[ShortnFiery]

52. Here! Here!

My daughter's 13 years old and has helped me at the polls twice - outside at the Democratic stands. She enjoys the handful of fellow Junior High Students there but, even at her age, concurs that the National Democrats are NOT serving us "little people."

That said, I'm very proud of our Senator, Jim Webb, for all his support of the Veterans, and now, the Active Duty troops.

IMO, the national Democrats have to get out of their "beltway-blindness" more often so they can truly FEEL the discontent of their constituents. Gee, you'd think that an 18% approval rating would give them "a clue" but I guess it will take "the leadership" nothing less than a figurative baseball bat (losing to their next democratic challenger) to WAKE THEM UP. :shrug:

With the insight of our youth and our continued struggle to be REPRESENTED, just perhaps ... well I hope and pray that there's hope for our future and that of the democratic party. :hi:

[4_TN_TITANS]

56. I didn't take it the same way...

The way the story reads, I assumed the kid meant all Democrats are cowards, not just the ones in power.

[MagsDem]

60. Probably because you weren't there

She definitely meant our dem politicians.

[Totally Committed]

57. K & R

TC