Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Impeachment is the only viable opinion to stop these madmen

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 07:12 AM
Original message
Impeachment is the only viable opinion to stop these madmen
The gloves gotta come off. The American people have been duped too many times by this criminal organization called the White House.

How can we let this go on any longer?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Crazy Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. The presidential campaign has been an excellent distraction n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I am so glad you say that
Talking about being duped.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. If they AREN'T stopped before they attack Iran, history will judge the 110th congress...
...HARSHLY for failing to save the USA from the neocons.

At the VERY least, get CHENEY out of there!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. Let it go. They don't have the votes. So it wouldn't stop the administration anyway.
Edited on Fri Sep-14-07 07:33 AM by Perry Logan
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thanks to others for pointing it out, but
Edited on Fri Sep-14-07 08:03 AM by DCKit
They don't need ANY votes to prevent the funding bill from coming to the floor.

How many times did the Repukes use exactly that same tactic to prevent any legislation that didn't serve their purposes from going anywhere?

We're pussies 'cause we're not willing to get as dirty as them. It's time to start playing politics. I know they haven't forgotten how, they're just whipped and need some encouragement.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Thanks for addressing the answer. We need to get nastier
than the repukes. We have a hell of a lot more on junior and Death Varder than they had on Clinton with Monica Lewinsky. Mark Foley & Larry Craig had no qualms going after Clinton.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. I don't know. How many times did repubs block funding?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rene Donating Member (758 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
37. Who are the key people who would vote NO to impeachment. We all have to call/write and work on them
to change their votes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. whether we "have the votes" is entirely irrelevant . . .
the Constitution does not say that impeachment for "high crimes and misdemeanors" will take place only if Congress has the votes . . . impeachment is an indictment, and the evidence placed on the table during the Senate trial is what will lead to conviction and removal from office, or acquital . . .

we may not have the votes now, but we will after the totality of the evidence is placed into the public record . . . with the overwhelming amount of strong evidence already well known, senators voting to acquit after the evidence is formally and systematically presented would be killing their own careers . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Agreed
When the evidence is presented, pressure from constituents may influence voting. To allow this administration to remain in office is not an option; it's a disgrace.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
26. Welcome to DU!
Couldn't agree more.

Glad you're here! Now get to work.

Visualize IMPEACHMENT!!!
Then go DO something about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
27. Ooops - dupe - self-delete. Hit the button twice by accident.
Edited on Sat Sep-15-07 07:33 AM by calimary
Even so, I STILL couldn't agree more, and you STILL make a great point, MissDeeds!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rene Donating Member (758 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #9
38. Allowing this administration to remain in office sets a precedent for future admins.
They can commit high crimes and never expect punishment/retribution. bush/cheney need to be tried at the Hague. It's absolutely awful that America has been lowered to their standards. We're better than this and need to prove it for people of the world, today and tomorrow.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. You don't need to start the impeachment process to conduct investigations
and in fact, since you need to have a vote by a majority of the House to even begin an impeachment inquiry by the Judiciary Committee, the idea that if only impeachment hearings would start we'd get the votes misses the point. There aren't sufficient votes to even authorize the hearings. And that will remain the case so long as no repubs are willing to jump ship. Both the Nixon and Clinton impeachment hearings were autorized by votes that had bipartisan support (overwhelmingly in the case of Nixon and around 31 Dems in the Clinton situation).

What is disappointing to me is not that there hasn't been an attempt to commence an impeachment process (which would fail) but that the House and Senate haven't been more aggressive in conducting oversight and investigatory hearings on certain matters.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Yes! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DangerDave921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
31. End of Discussion
OK, folks. Here's my final word on this topic. FORGET ABOUT IMPEACHMENT. It's not going to happen, and our Dem leaders DO NOT WANT IT TO HAPPEN. It would be a massive distraction from the current race. And it would risk sympathy for the very folks we're trying to beat.

When Clinton went through his impeachment fiasco, his poll numbers actually went up! Why? Because the public got sick and tired of hearing about it all the time. It looked like a bunch of angry, obsessed Repubs trying to bring a presidency down. And Clinton benefitted from that!

In Bush's case, the election is a little over one year away. We have solid candidates running for president. We have momentum after winning big in 2006. So tell me what in the world do we have to gain from impeachment? Even if there were enough votes to bring articles of impeachment (which there are NOT), it would take months and months of wrangling that would absolutely dominate the nightly news every single day. Our candidates would get pushed to the side, or else the discussion would be focused solely on their thoughts on impeachment. And our Dem leaders would look like they are looking for vengeance and retribution.

Bush is not running in 08. Neither is Cheney. So forget about trying to destroy them and focus on winning in 2008. I know you hate them, but direct that hatred toward a positive vision of working to help your candidate win.

IMPEACHMENT IS OFF THE TABLE.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ericgtr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. Exactly
what can the congress do with no margin, they simply can't get enough Republicans on their side. Now the Dems are going to twist and bend things in the Republicans favor just to get a bread crumb from them. The administration is pushing for 10 more years, for the love of god man. At this point all we can do is bend over and take it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
7. Yes, absolutely
The new Zogby 9/11 Truthout poll I was reading about says that 30% of the American public want impeachment now and think there is enough evidence. 51% say that the actions of the Bush and Cheney administration need to be investigated regarding 9/11.

How do we get to the next step is the big question?

If you've grown tired of constantly writing your Congressman and meeting with him to no avail and collecting petition signatures, what is next?

I don't know the answer to that one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Your right on ... if we don't wake up soon it will be too late. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
15. The Claim That "We Don't Have The Votes" Is A Big Propaganda Lie
It's no different than "we need smaller gov't" and "taxes are too high." Because "smaller" and "too high" are purposefully non-specific.

We "don't have the votes" for what exactly? There's been no charges put up for a vote.

Put an impeachment article "on the table" for torture. Then we find out who "has the votes" -- the war criminals or the Constitution defenders. Up or down, we need to find out. Anything else is just arrogant self-delusion.

Conyers does not have "the Constitution in one hand and a calculator in the other." He's got a Magic 8 Ball in one hand and his dick in the other.

The DC LieberDems are just the firewall against reality. The one thing the beltway-blinded are most terrified of.

---
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I agree!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. doesn't work that way
THe first step in an impeachment process is for the entire House to vote to authorize/direct the JUdiciary Committee to conduct an inquiry/investigation into whether articles of impeachment should be drawn up. And that step can't be taken now because there are more than enough Blue Dogs and other Democratic members from swing districts that are not going to support such a resolution unless it garners some bi-partisan support. As they will point out, even the Clinton impeachment process started with 31 Democrats supporting the resolution directing the Judiciary Committee to conduct hearings. (And the vote to commence Judiciary hearings on the Nixon impeachment was something like 410-4).

Sorry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. It's working exactly that way
The DC Dems are claiming "there are more than enough ... that are not going to support" a resolution they refuse to bring to a vote.

The Clinton process would have started without the 31 Dems and the Bush/Cheney process could pass unanimously.

The first step in an impeachment process is to stop protecting the guilty.

Sorry.

---
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Wishing doesn't make it so
I wish all the Blue Dogs would support the commencement inquiry. But the fact is that they aren't going to, at least not unless they get "cover" from a semblance of bi-partisan support. Its the way they are, whether we like it or not.

In any event, my point was that the process doesn't start with the presentation of the evidence followed by a vote, it starts with a vote to collect the evidence. And that, unfortunately, is the hurdle that we can't overcome at the present time. Please understand, I wish that we could but at this point I don't see how we make the Blue Dogs support a partisan vote on impeachment.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. You're wishing. We're working to make it so.
The fact is that whatever "way they are" can be changed to "the way they are now."

In any event, your real point is that there is a rationalization for doing nothing. This is why you use phrases such as "at the present time" and "at this point" to pretend there is some other time you will actually DO something.

Fortunately, there is no hurdle that we can't overcome. And I fully understand that you wish for things.

But wishing doesn't make it so.

---

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. You don't know what I'm doing.
Presumptuous aren't you. I'm contacting repub members and pushing for them to speak out against chimpy, which is the only way impeachment could ever come about. What exactly are you doing that's more productive? Anything other than posting on DU?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. I know what you're doing here.
You're spreading Impeachophobia.

No presumption necessary.

===
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. actually, I'm spreading accurate information
something that some here at DU seem to have an aversion to...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. Even if it were actually accurate...
...that's still a far cry from truth.

Insanity is often the logic of an accurate mind overtaxed. -- Oliver Wendell Holmes (1809 - 1894)

--
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. care to point out what in my post is not "actually accurate"
Put up or shut up, as they say.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. I might, if you were "actually accurate"...
...about what you mean by "my post."

Then again, as they say, I might not.

--

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. wonderful. You make accusations, and you can't back them up.
Reminds me of certain people, but it would be against the rules to suggest that you are one of them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. not that wonderful. You tell yourself that I didn't "back them up."
Then you tell yourself that you're not violating the rules.

Does that remind you of anyone?

---
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. and another post that doesn't back up the assertion that my post was inaccurate
keep digging...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-18-07 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Maybe you should try the CapsLock key
Repetition isn't making your posts any truer. Could be that volume's worth a shot?

---
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-18-07 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. and your inability to defend yourself has become embarassing.
Edited on Tue Sep-18-07 08:11 AM by onenote
Again, if you can back up your assertion, why don't you. Oh, wait, its because you can't back up your assertion. Nothing I said was inaccurate and you know it but can't bring yourself to admit it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-18-07 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. I see my suggestion was a bit premature.
Four more repetitions and no uptick in veracity. And still not ready for the volume yet.

I know, why don't you try to claim I can't back up my assertion -- or accusation -- whichever one of those is actually accurate?

--
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-18-07 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. I've lost count. But even counting a couple of posts as foul balls, you're out on strikes
Next time you want to suggest that someone's post is inaccurate or untruthful, try to come up with something more than the bald assertion. Although I doubt that you're capable of it from what you've shown.

Last word is yours. Buh-bye.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. Yes, counting can be so tedious.
Better to just declare oneself umpire and count what you feel like.

Trouble is, that's a pretty clear admission that there's a gap between "what you've {been} shown" and what you've bothered to see.

Not to mention which of those two is actually accurate.

--
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
18. I don't think it is viable
And some just want it as a symbolic gesture because it's the right thing to do regardless of whether it works.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
19. Well, that's not going to happen...Do you have any other ideas?
I am all about stopping Bush/Cheney from ruining whatever parts of the world that they haven't already ruined. But impeachment IS. NOT. GOING. TO. HAPPEN. Wish it would. Won't.

We need some other ideas and plans for keeping a leash on these guys.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. You don't KNOW that.
Edited on Fri Sep-14-07 05:52 PM by Independent_Liberal
How do you know it's not going to happen? You can never know these things for certain. For all you know impeachment could be closer than it appears. And another thing, it IS the only thing that will stop them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
20. k&r
IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-14-07 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
22. The Dems would be remiss to let all the GOP crimes slide.
Impeachment may be the only viable way to stop the war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
28. Impeachment won't stop him from going on his merry murderous
way.

I support it, but I'm under no illusion whatsoever that anything will stop him.

keep introducing a funding bill for Iraq with strict timelines? He'll take the funds to keep the military in Iraq from other places. Yes, he can do that.

Not send any funding bill. He'll take the funds form other sources.

Impeach? He'll probably ramp things up.

I'm pro-impeachment and pro sending him a funding bill with deadlines.

I'm under no illusions that these measures will stop him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. Impeachment would make him worse!
An impeachment effort, given the current makeup of the House and Senate, would no doubt fail. Imagine what a FAILED impeachment would do to shore up Bush and the Republican base!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RFKJrNews Donating Member (760 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Let me get this straight...
We impeached Clinton over fooling around with an intern...
We got rid of Nixon because he lied about breaking into DNC headquarters...

...and we CAN'T seem to impeach a President who has ripped the Constitution to shreds?

If this is really where America stands, we deserve whatever we get.

RFK Jr. says "we need to impeach Bush as a civics lesson."

http://rfkin2008.wordpress.com/2007/07/20/we-need-to-im... /

"America doesnt torture people, Kennedy said. We do not intercept the telephone conversations of hundreds of thousands of American citizens illegally.

You cant just tear up the Bill of Rights, he said. He has to be impeached. The American people have to remember how sacred the Constitution of the United States is.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. No. I just don't believe in wasting time engaging in futile, self-destructive acts
I'd rather focus on what CAN be done, not what will make me feel good.

Bush is NOT going to be impeached, no matter how much we want it. Wasting time and resources trying to force something that's not going to happen is not how I choose to focuse my energies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
33. I fear its too late for that
The spring was our opportunity to stem this tide. Never again will the public be so far on our side, and never again will we have such a ripe moment to do what has to be done.

At this point, Bush knows our party leadership is weak. An in order to impeach, we'd need to have serious criminal investigations, which appear nearly impossible after basically going along with him on some of the more questionable stuff he was doing - the war, domestic spying, torture, etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lame54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
36. i agree - impeach
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-19-07 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
51. bttgdt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 25th 2014, 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC