Corp. media not reporting obvious, that Clark has emerged as alternative

[Bombtrack]

I really like Kerry and Edwards, just as much as I like Clark. All three would make fantastic presidents, and they along with Lieberman are the only candidates in the running that could beat Bush in a general election without a second recession and/or some huge catastrophic watergate-like scandal.

But you just have to look at all the polls compiled that unless Edwards numbers in NH, SC, and OK revert back to their height , or until Kerry starts getting 7 - 10 points better in IO, and 10 to 15 points better in NH ---- that Clark is the alternative to Dean. The candidate for democrats who really, really don't like candidate Dean, a group I and many others believe greatly outnumber democrats who really like candidate Dean.

but for whatever reason; conspiracy, neglect, whatever, the media horde isn't putting this reasonable conclusion to the democratic primary voters who don't have time to disect the primary process and polls for themselves.

And if you subscribe to the "the GOP wants and is helping to get Dean nominated" theory as I and many others do, it serves the corporate establishments goals to keep the anti-Dean democrats without a clear leader until as late as possible. (and yes Dean-supporters I'm aware of your "it's a mass reverse psychology conspiracy and they're actually terrified of Dean" theory)

So, there you have it. Look at the Daily Kos poll compendium and tell me how Clark hasn't emerged at least enough for the media to stop reporting the "Clarks campaign blew up in the first 2 weeks" talking point.

[billbuckhead]

1. To middle America, Clark's the best alternative to Bush...........

or Howard Brush Dean III. Maybe Clark is a DINO, he has an ambiguous record, but Dean is absolutely a DINO but furthermore, Dean is an unelectable DINO.

[Bombtrack]

3. I really hate that term, and none of us have the authority or grounds to

label ANY of the candidates running as "democrats in name only."

It's just a continuation of the Naderite bullshit mantra that "there's no difference between the parties" etc, the result of which, republicans and conservatives simply feed off of, saying that any but the most left-wing democrats don't stand for anything.

Every single candidate has a liberal platform. Yet Dean is the only one who's a big enough asshole and has defficient enough decency to say, basically that he's a real democrat and the others aren't

[bearfartinthewoods]

32. i agree...dino is verboten in my lexicon.

except for zel...

[horsesense]

2. good question

I have no intention of dissing Dean. I greatly respect that he was the first Dem to point out that the Emporer had no clothes.

It is hard for me to understand why Clark gets so little attention in the major media. Given his showing in polls, he should be news. Additionally, he speaks well, why do they suppress him?

[Bombtrack]

5. "he was the first Dem to point out that the Emporer had no clothes" - BS

Dean has been the candidate to lie and misrepresent his about opponents and his positions, and has used the Lee Atwater campaign rule book of going negative from the beginning and not letting up, only in the primary, against those of his own party.

Leaving candidates like Kerry, who was used to running in respectful campaigns, out of his element, and unable to reciprocate and keep up with the constent BS of Dr. Evil

[Myra]

4. "Koppel's" mock Democratic debate is all the evidence needed

That you're correct and the media is forcing Dean on us,
if anyone is interested in quaint things like, you know,
democracy.

But that debate is a very unpopular subject with
Dean supporters. They like to pretend it didn't happen 'cause
it was just too blatant to assimilate into their support of Dean.

http://www.sunspot.net/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.witcover12dec12,0,5345523.column

By Jules Witcover, Baltimore Sun

"DURHAM, N.H. - Thanks a lot, Ted Koppel, for the worst presidential nomination debate yet.

The way the ABC celebrity newsman moderated the affair among the nine Democratic presidential candidates here the other night confirmed often-heard public complaints that the news media, and especially television, have grown too big for their boots.

Mr. Koppel's opening gambit of calling on all the candidates who thought former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean could beat President Bush next year to raise their hands immediately set a destructive tone for what was supposed to be an exploration of the issues facing the country.

When only Dr. Dean reached half-heartedly for the sky, the 90-minute farce started on a downhill slide from which it never recovered..."

[babzilla]

11. why didn't they raise their hands anyway?

You would think that all democrats have to believe that any democratic candidate can beat Bush. It was quite illuminating that only CMB raised her hand up halfway.

I'm sure the reaction by all of the candidates was due more to the shock of the stupid question, but still, I would hope that party affilliation would be a little more binding.

If I'm not mistaken all of the candidates profess that they will endorse the eventual nominee, why they couldn't put themselves into the hypothetical situation of Dean being that nominee when the question was posed to them makes me wonder.

[Myra]

14. Oh puh-leeze. Koppel's posing of that question was a pro-Dean strategy

As blatant as the one used repeatedly on DU.
(Post threads demanding to know if non-Dean supporters will
*vote for Dean* and discussing *Dean's* running mate.
Then we're supposed to strategically be programed with the
inevitabilty of *Dean's* campaign success and just give
up on the better candidates.)

Koppel was using the same strategy.

Perhaps it would have been less heavy handed and obvious
if Koppel had done the same thing for (against actually)
each candidate, and not just the annointed one.
By asking the "question" only about *the annointed one*,
he just underscored what a heavy handed strategy it was.

And thank god most of the candidates recognized it as
heavy handed Dean boosting, and objected.

I rather liked Kerry's remark that if he was a less polite person
he'd tell Ted what to do with his question.

[JI7]

33. true

he could have said i'm going to name each of the candidates one by one and if you believe they can beat bush raise your hand. but he only asked about one. and after that he asked each of the others why they didn't raise their hands for that one.

[Myra]

39. Right J17, it was blatantly "unfair and unbalanced" the way Koppel did it.

He's disgusting; ABC's disgusting.

We seriously need debate reform just like we need campaign
finance reform and voting reform.
We can't have debates in the hands of partison media hacks any more.

[madaboutharry]

6. This is going to turn into another

media driven election. It is going to be about distorting whatever the democratic nominee says, does, or wears. It is going to be about burying the truth about Bush and his corrupt administration. It will be about reporters and journalists getting on television propping up Bush because his policies serve their bank accounts best. As journalists and media types have become millionaires and part of the moneyed elite, the obligation to serve the public has all but disappeared, right along with their once middle class salaries. They have become part of the inner clique. They stay at the same resorts, eat in the same restaurants, live in the same neighborhoods as the rich and powerful politicians they cover. The few who are an exception to this are barely heard.

[Rose Siding]

7. Julian- dem stratigist, on Faux today

was asked about the 2nd place threats to Dean and he named Clark, Gep and Kerry.

The deal is that he really isn't in play for 2nd in IA or NH- just a decent place and SC, which is dog years away in press time.

[KittyWampus]

25. You Forgot Arizona and Oklahoma Where He Leads

[IndianaGreen]

8. Screw the four pukes that voted in favor of the war in Iraq!

They must be defeated at all cost! Their criminal vote for war resulted in 10,000 Iraqi and 500 American dead and countless others wounded and/or maimed for life. Their war vote should not be rewarded with the 2004 Presidential nomination.

I support all of the antiwar candidates against the 4 prowar candidates.

[Dr Fate]

12. I see the greens are back at the "big lie" again...

telling us that good DEMS are "pukes". DEMS who very well may run against Bush.

Thanx for tearing down DEMS again and again,an organization that many of us are working hard for. I guess it's easier to tear things down than to do the right thing and oppose Bush instead of DEMS...

Who is the green candidate for 2004 anyway. What states can he/she win?

[Rose Siding]

15. Wouln't you say

that things have skewed to the right over the last decade? Some old centrist dems *have* started acting like repubs (ZELL!)

I'm not a green but it's rude to imply that another poster is telling any "big lie"

[Bombtrack]

17. So Gephardt and John Kerry are "pukes" because of what Zell Miller does?

It is a big lie, and the whole green ideology is based on impatience and foolishness

[Dr Fate]

21. Its a lie to call Kerry or Edwards a "puke" or Republican...

And that is that.

[KittyWampus]

27. Yes, Things Moved To The Right Thanks To Howard Dean

one of many Establishment DLC Democrats.

So the fact Dean CLAIMS he wouldn't have voted for the IWR means little.

[IndianaGreen]

18. I probably have been a Democrat longer than you been alive

and thank you for the personal attack, it shows how little you can defend the four candidates responsible for the bloodbath in Iraq.

BTW, I am not a member of the Green Party, not that it matters to people that assume too much of a person's user name.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TLM]

9. Same old sour grapes crap... your guy isn;t wining...blame the media

Blame Dean... blame everybody but your canddiate for not being able to reach people.


Dean got shit for media attention at the start of this process, yet he built a grassroots netwrok through meetup and the net. Dean went around the media and blew the talking heads away with his results. Only then did they start giving him any decent coverage... once the story had already passed them by and they were racing to play catchup.

When Clark first decided he was a democrat, he got lots of attention. He was all over the media, and yet he blew it. He wasted it because he has no clue how to make use of media attention.


The difference is that Dean is very good at reaching out to people in the party and in the base... Clark is not. Clark's message is muddled and Dean;s is not. Dean is exciting, CLark is boring.

Dean is wining because he's worked harder, and he's better at reaching the people. Clark is losing because he has no experience in campaigns or holding office. He has no experience dealing with people who are not bound by military law to respect and obey him.

Clark simply does not have what it takes.

[Bombtrack]

13. The anti-war movement built it's own grassroots network, Dean latched on

by misrepresenting his opponents positions on the war and creating a wedge based on that.

When it became clear that due to Dean's rangling of that new segment of the left, he had a real shot at the nomination, certain segment of the right began to help Dean in any way they could.

[Justice]

30. Wow

"Dean is wining because he's worked harder, and he's better at reaching the people"

Did you mean to say winning or whining?

[HFishbine]

34. Blame the media, blame Dean...

Hell, why not blame oursleves? Every single minute spent arguing on DU is one we could be using to write to voters in Iowa and New Hampshire, write letters to the editor, go door-to-door. If your candidate isn't doing as well as you like, the FIRST question you should ask is, "What more could I be doing?"

[dd123]

10. If you think Dean supporters are happy with the media you've

got another think coming.

The press is out on a mission against my guy...you Clark people should be happy your guy is flying under the radar.

If Clark had the spotlight on him like Dean I've no doubt you would be just as upset as I am over the way words are twisted and contorted out of all recognition.

Be very happy Clark people.

[Bombtrack]

16. Clark doesn't say something unbelievably stupid every 2 weeks.

And to say that Dean's coverage of his surprise second quarter fundraising win(complete saturation topped off by Larry King, and time and newsweek covers) compared to Edwards surprise first quarter win(ignore ignore ignore) is all in our heads proves your blindness to the fact that those who want Dean nominated on the right are successfully inserting there power into this campaign

[Myra]

19. And the media largely refuses to report on Dean's verbal gaffes

Why?
Because they want a Democratic president?

No, they clearly didn't want President Gore.

It must be so they can pounce on Dean in a general election
when he makes one of his many verbal mistakes or many
many contradictions and policy flip flops.

And the media will be even more *kind* with Der Chimp
this round, 'cause he's the incumbent.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KittyWampus]

28. Actually Dean Says Something Stupid Every DAY Now

This is all from within the space of about one and a half weeks:

First Dean says we're no safer with Saddam out of the picture.

Then Dean says he needs someone to plug his hole-regarding Foreign Policy Experience.

Then Dean lets us know he'll be talking about God to the Southerners.

Then Dean says Osama's guilt shouldn't be prejudged- which wouldn't have been bad except-

Then Dean says Osama is guilty and deserves the Death Penalty

Then Dean also says where Osama is tried has no effect on Amecian Security Issues

Then Dean says his voters are none transferrable- making the same veiled threat AGAIN

[Bombtrack]

29. good point, I think I might have a "not voting party" if he gets the nom

neither of those 2 penises Bush and Dean are going to get my vote

[HFishbine]

35. Right

and none of this has been heard in the media...

[KittyWampus]

37. Yeah, The Media Gives Dean A "Do-Over" On His Osama Statement

Just out of curiosity... did the Media ever allow Gore to have a "do-over" on any of HIS statements... Did they allow Clark to fully explain the context or meaning of his statements made on his first day of campaigning regarding the IWR?

The Media, by the way, ignored Dean calling Russia the Soviet Union 4 times in one interview as well as his Yes AND No answer on fighting against Right To Work Laws.

[Tom Rinaldo]

23. They will when 4th quarter fund raising numbers are released.

That's the next "primary", and it will loom big because after Iowa and New Hampshire campaigning in larger states with only one or two weeks betwen primaries takes a lot of money to pull off, and only Dean and Clark will have it.

[Myra]

24. Ah yes, you're right about the fund raising numbers.

Gee, I wonder if Ted Koppel will invite Clark and Kucinch
(and other Dem candidates?) back onstage and give them
props over all the money they've raised!!!

God I hate Koppel...

[Bombtrack]

26. yeah, nightlines a good show, but he's clearly got delusions of grandeur

.

[Gloria]

31. Clark--A good showing in AZ on Saturday....good newspaper reports...

the hall they had in one place was too small for the crowd.

CSPAN tonight...he was awesome.

And he's tied with Dean in AZ....

This just in: 8:10 MT....CNN Headline News just had a clip of Clark in AZ citing the poll!! In fact, the graphic said he was 'leading' ...actually he's in a statistical dead heat, as the newsreader said. The clip showed him accepting flowers and waving....

[JNelson6563]

36. Maybe something news-worthy might help

Remember DU is not representative of the country. Also remember it is very easy to project a majority in an on-line community such as this.

I could easily register another 10 names and Voila! Look!! 10 more Dean supporters have joined DU! ;-) Of course I won't, I'm a one ID kinda girl, just pointing out the strategies so often utilized. Hey, why not?? Worked for the reich-wingers, didn't it?

Yep, if ya wanna be in the news, you gotta make some news. That's how it works.

Julie

[sandnsea]

38. Clark is just fine

We all know he's there. He's alot of people's backup. We'll see how things are in Feb and that's when things will really move.