Does Israel not joining the coalitions that invaded Iraq make it a strategic burden to America?

[Boojatta]

Poll question: Does Israel not joining the coalitions that invaded Iraq make it a strategic burden to America?

The first Gulf War revealed the extent to which Israel was becoming a strategic burden. The US could not use Israeli bases without rupturing the anti-Iraq coalition, and had to divert resources (e.g. Patriot missile batteries) to prevent Tel Aviv doing anything that might harm the alliance against Saddam Hussein. History repeated itself in 2003: although Israel was eager for the US to attack Iraq, Bush could not ask it to help without triggering Arab opposition. So Israel stayed on the sidelines once again.

The Israel Lobby
John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt

[Jim Sagle]

1. Mearsheimer and Walt are wrong about everything - maliciously so.

They suck and Israel rocks.

[madeline_con]

2. Israelis have been in Iraq, helping the U.S.

"interrogate", and in "counterinsurgency" operations.

They are definitely part of the "coalition". A silent partner.

[Boojatta]

4. In your opinion, does the silence make Israel a strategic burden to America?

[madeline_con]

6. They've never been anything else. n/t

[Boojatta]

8. Does Israel's status as a silent partner in Iraq

tend to make them more of a strategic burden than they would be if their role in Iraq had more closely resembled the role of the U.K. in Iraq?

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Boojatta]

11. Would WWIII be a strategic burden for America?

I know, I know, but I don't want to jump to any conclusions here.

[madeline_con]

12. What do you think? n/t

[papau]

18. No - they aren't a strategic burden - they did what we told them to do n/t

n/t

[Boojatta]

3. Can someone who voted "Yes" explain the idea?

Was invading Iraq a good strategic decision? Is a failure of Israel to enable an invasion of Iraq not merely a lack of help in executing the good strategic decision to invade Iraq, but an actual burden that makes the good strategic decision of invading Iraq hard to justify from the point of view of feasibility?

[Jesse Hemingway]

7. According to them they said not to invade Iraq

This is an indications the last cars of this train wreck called Iraq,PNAC,RNC, and Likud are coming to a stop.


http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IH30Ak04.html

[Boojatta]

9. When did they say that?

In the OP I pasted what they wrote: "although Israel was eager for the US to attack Iraq"

Anyway, I don't see how that explains a "Yes" vote in this poll.

[Hardrada]

13. I don't see where you get the idea that invading Iraq was a

"good strategic decision." Where did that curious thought come from?

[Boojatta]

16. It came from the part of the mind devoted to trying to guess

what basis people have for their opinions when they express opinions, but refuse to discuss any topic related to the basis for their opinions.

[Hardrada]

19. You probably need a few extra threads for all that!!

[Boojatta]

29. All what?

The short answer is that it's a guess of why people would vote "Yes" in this poll. I already gave the long answer.

[IndianaGreen]

5. We can't blame Israel for our own fuckups!

We even blame the Iraqis for the mess we have created.

Let's take responsibility for our own actions!

[harun]

21. I tend to agree, the action in Iraq was done to

supposedly protect Israel but the reason was not really that. It was to appease the pro-Israel lobby in the U.S. for political gain. You could hear, and rightfully so, during the ramp up to the war many Israeli's say that if the U.S. thinks they are going to make Israel safer by that adventure, no thanks.

So while Israel's right wing lobby in the U.S. certainty wanted it, I don't think the majority of Israeli's see a long term occupation of Iraq by U.S. forces as anything that will make them or the region safer in any way.

[ProudDad]

23. Irael is a creation

of U.S./European foreign and military policy...

One can't really blame Baron von Frankenstein for the actions of his creation, can one?

[IndianaGreen]

26. Israel was created by a UN resolution, as was a Palestinian state

Too bad that too many cooks got in the kitchen to create their own porridge.

I will also add that the current crew in power have done nothing to help in the situation.

[Hippo_Tron]

14. First of all "Israel was eager to attack Iraq" is a broad generalization

Israel has a political right and a political left just like we do in America. They have their share of neocons who thought it was a good idea and there share of critics who correctly thought that it was a horrible idea and that it would just strengthen Iran, which it has.

What really annoys me about Israel discussions is that some people assume that everyone in Israel believes the same thing.

[Jesse Hemingway]

15. Very good point

Just like everyone in United States does not support bush same their as here.

[ProudDad]

24. Unfortunately

the Israeli left has about as much real "power" and influence as the left has in the U.S....

Bad for them, bad for us, bad for the world...

[Hippo_Tron]

27. Still, there are differences between the Labour Party and Likud/Kadima

For one, the Oslo Accords signed under the Rabin government that were practically ignored when Sharon came to power.

[saltpoint]

17. Just as a point of consideration, I'd suggest that the Saudi lobby is

the one that generates more fear and presents a greater strategic burden.

For unchecked autocracy and regional territorialism, the Saudi royal family contends for top honors, IMO.

At whose behest are we even in Iraq? It's certainly not to "bring freedom and democracy to the Middle East."

[harun]

22. When they say "Freedom and democracy" in phrases with

shaping the middle east, the neo-con translation from that to English is "servitude and obedience".

[saltpoint]

30. From the Bush record/evidence, I'd say you hit the nail on the head.

These guys are playground bullies. Ego lizards. They don't care what ideologies are involved, or who represents them, or what role cultural complexities play in the mix. They want the oil and they want Halliburton profits collateral to obtaining said oil.

Bullies.

Rumsfeld was a wrestler in his younger days in school.

[rockymountaindem]

20. It's the other way around

If Israel had joined in either of these wars, the situation for the US would be much worse because of the regional antagonism (to say the least) between Israel and everybody else. That's the reason Saddam launched those missiles at them in 1991, to try and get Israel to enter the war against Iraq. Saddam knew that would have driven a wedge between the US and our Arab allies, such as Jordan, Egypt, Oman and the Saudis. So, if anything, having Israel stay out of these wars makes whatever situation we're in better.

And still nobody has proved to me what Israel is supposedly getting from having the US in Iraq. Their biggest supporter is hamstrung in an extremely difficult operation, the amount of regional instability has flared, and the Arabs are getting madder at the west all the time. What has Israel gained here?

[ProudDad]

25. The BASTARDS are getting

$4 Billion fucking dollars a year...

of our tax dollars...

"What has Israel gained here?"

[rockymountaindem]

28. I mean from the war

The funding won't change. It's part of the 1979 Camp David Accords. How has Israel gained from the *war*?

[cali]

31. The BASTARDS?

Try and refrain from such language. You can still be anti-Israel, but incendiary language about the citizens of an entire country, isn't helpful here.