The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local email.

[madfloridian]

Received this today. Not one word about the whole story..if we complain we are told not to make waves. They only present one side, they are trying to stir up all the Democrats here. Of course it will work when you have the media with you.

From a county chairperson:

"The following article is from TIME and was sent to me by the DEC Chairs Assn. If my phone calls from registered Dems are any indication, many, many of them will not get out to vote in the primary, either because they figure their votes won’t count or they are just plain disgusted with the party. We need to impress on the DNC that they must to change their minds. More is at stake here than the delegates. The Republicans would rejoice if we don’t go to the polls since their tax package is also on the ballot! The DNC phone# is [phone]. The contributions # is [phone]. They need to hear from you- all of you- on this issue. Please forward this to anyone on you email list that you think would be interested."

Thanks

Then she copies the entire ugly Time article about Dean.

Will Dean's War on Florida Backfire?

I won't post any of the article.

I am angry at the way this is being handled here. They are not presenting two sides at all. She attaches one of the worst of the articles which also gives no other side.

It is an orchestrated attack on Howard Dean and the DNC, and I will have none of it. It is not based on truth, it is based on propaganda. They have been proven wrong. They don't care. They are on a one-sided mission here, and Bill Nelson is leading the way.

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.

Stand firm, Governor Dean.



From the Time article: Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean speaks at the kick-off countdown rally at the Pepsi Center in Denver on August 22, 2007. Denver is the host city for the 2008 Democratic Party Convention.
Gary C. Caskey / UPI Photo / Landov

I know for a fact they are getting negative feedback about the way they are handling it. They discount it. They only are counting the voices if they are what they want to hear.

I don't believe in my lifetime I have seen such an outlandish use of propaganda by a group against their own party. They don't even feel embarrassed.

[YDogg]

1. perhaps this is part of the Grand Old Perverts' new wide stance.

[Coexist]

2. I was forwarded this from a friend today:

27 August 2007

Dear Friend:

On 25 August 2007 three DNC Members from Florida – State Chair Karen Thurman, former State Chair Terrie Brady and former two-term Vice-Chair Jon Ausman – were given the opportunity to present the Florida Democratic Party’s (FDP) delegate selection plan to the Democratic National Committee (DNC) Rules and Bylaws Committee (RBC).

Karen Thurman spoke about the efforts by Democratic legislators to prevent the Republicans from moving the primary before the 5 February cutoff date. Jon Ausman spoke of the difference between primaries and caucuses. He noted that primaries have 6,700 voting locations, caucuses only 50 to 150. That 24,000 active military who were Democrats cast absentee ballots in 2004 along with 105,000 civilians. They would not get an opportunity to vote in a caucus. Terrie Brady spoke about the municipal elections scheduled for 29 January and that the property tax referendum was on the same ballot.

National news coverage of Florida’s presentation was covered by C-SPAN. Two national networks provided coverage. The hyperlinks for this coverage are provided below.

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=3204114n
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3524267

The staff of the RBC distributed a document, a copy of which is attached as a .pdf file, which undermined the argument that the relevant elected officials made a good faith effort to stop the presidential preference primary from being moved from March into January in violation of the DNC Rules. This memorandum clearly showed that:

1. Florida Democratic Legislators sponsored the bill to move the primary to January 29th;

2. Florida House Democratic Legislators voted in committee three times for the bill to move the primary to January 29;

3. All but one Florida House Democratic Legislator vote on the floor to move the primary to January 29; and,

4. Florida House Democratic Leader Dan Gelber stated, after receiving a call from DNC Chair asking for help in opposing setting the primary date before February 5, “I don’t represent Howard Dean.”

5. Florida House Democratic Leader Dan Gelber stated, after offering an amendment to move the primary to February 5th, that the only reason he offer it was “to show that there was an attempt to state within the Democratic Party rules.” The amendment failed on a voice vote with no debate being offered.

6. Florida Senate Democratic Legislators voted in committee to move the primary to January;

7. Florida Senate Democratic Leader Steve Geller stated on the Senate floor that he was offering an amendment to move the primary to February 5 only because he was threatened by DNC Chair Howard Dean. Sen. Geller than mocked his own amendment which failed on a voice vote without any debate.

After Florida’s presentation, RBC Member Ralph Dawson moved a motion that did the following:

1. Found that the FDP Delegate Selection Plan was in non-compliance;

2. Gave the FDP thirty (30) days to submit to the RBC a Delegate Selection Plan that is in compliance; and,

3. If a plan meeting the timing requirement (the first step of delegate selection occurs on 5 February or afterwards) then Florida will be stripped of all unpledged and pledged delegates.

After debate and discussion, the RBC passed the motion by a vote of 23-1 (City Commissioner Allan Katz of Florida was the only dissenting vote).

This gives the FDP two choices. It can:

1. Ignore the DNC RBC and hope that the Democratic National Convention Credentials Committee will seat its delegates;

2. Submit a delegate selection plan which allows Democrats to either caucus or meet in convention to select delegates to the Democratic National Convention.

Earlier this year I supported a caucus plan to select delegates. The State Executive Committee and Florida’s DNC Members voted to use the primary on 29 January as the first determining step for delegate selection. I argued strongly to support this position before the DNC RBC.

The Democratic National Committee has the right to set a window which divides the four states – Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina – which can select delegates before 5 February from all the other state selection processes.

The Florida Legislature, with strong and active Democratic support, moved the primary before 5 February to 29 January. This was not done by Republicans over protesting Democratic legislators. The Democratic legislators voted in five separate committees and in two floor actions for the bill.

Some have attempted to state that Democrats only voted for the bill because of the requirement to have voting machines with paper ballots. That is not an accurate and true statement.

In fact, Democratic Legislators actively support the 29 January primary in a number of votes before it was merged into the general election bill. This was most unfortunate because by doing so the FDP could no longer argue that we made a “good faith effort” to stop the move by Republicans because in fact it was a bi-partisan move.

A caucus will allow us to have a full delegation. A caucus will mean a Democratic voter in Florida has the same value as a Democratic voter in Iowa or Nevada.

A caucus will allow us to collect tens of thousands of email addresses, yardsign locations and cars to put bumperstickers on.

The DNC has made a generous offer to help offset the cost of the caucuses by offering the FDP $880,000 to help pay for some of the costs. The DNC has not offered a single other state any funds and in the past has never offered any monies to any state.

When elected officials blatantly blame the DNC for enforcing its rules and ignore the complicity of Florida Democratic elected officials in creating this situation they are not serving the Democrats of Florida well. They may get headlines, they may get support, but they are being demagogues rather than leaders.

It is time for leadership. We represent the Democrats of Florida and since our legislative Democratic elected officials have failed us, we need to make sure that their votes, in caucuses, count.

We have 27 days to get the job done. Lets get to work together and come up with a plan which will allow presidential candidates to campaign in Florida and receive delegates.

Lets make sure the presidential candidates know they are going to get delegates so they work to excite our Democratic voters. A caucus is an opportunity to build a viable, active party for November 2008.



What do you think?

[madfloridian]

3. Thanks for posting that email...I had posted parts earlier.

But I had not seen the whole thing.

I am too angry about this to be very logical. I think the RBC's presentation, like the article I posted in the OP about catching them in their propaganda....are making it obvious that Florida's elected folks are handling it wrong.

I have made some more contacts...but it is not like they want to hear unless we agree. That's the frustration.

Again thanks for sharing that. Our state dem rep should be doing this, but he is not. No one is speaking for those of us who disagree.

[1monster]

5. I think the whole thing is horse doo doo. I think that because

WE the people of Florida who are Democrats, are being screwed out of our say in selecting the Democratic Party nominee for President because of arbitrary and unfair rules as to who goes first.

If the DNC does follow through with their threat to disenfranchise Florida, I believe it will rue the day.

I have not forgiven or forgotten Tom Feeney and his gang of thugs who told us in November of 2000 that it didn't matter who we the people wanted and voted to be President, he and the State Legislature were sending George Bush.

If Florida Democrats are denied a voice in selecting the nominee, I'll not forget or forgive, regardless of whether or not the DNC has right on its side.

The DNC needs to find some way to resolve this without punishing those of us who have little enough say in our party and our government.

I haven't known for sure if my vote counted since 2000, but I still keep on voting. I haven't missed a vote since 1984.

I'm tired of and furious about having my right to vote held in question.

And I don't think I'm alone.

People in Florida will not see this as anything other than stealing our vote from us. Using a stick to beat the voters will backfire on the Democratic Party.

[madfloridian]

6. Hey, I said Florida has won the propaganda war. Lies are easy.

Truth is harder.

I admire the DNC and Governor Dean and the Rules Committee.

I think aside from the few people who are so easily convinced their vote was stolen...most see what is going on. It is an attack on the national party, and to be honest an attack on the present chairman.

It will probably work, and that will hurt all of us.

Some people are gullible enough to fall for anything without examining the issues.

[1monster]

8. I see what is going on. And yes the DNC is between a rock and a hard place.

BUT... the DNC needs to find a way to resolve who has control in some other way than beating up on the voters.

There are many ways they could do this. One would be by withdrawing support from any of the legislators who voted for the early primary date and throwing support to their opponents in furture primaries.

I'm sure there are many many ways to resolve this that wouldn't disenfranchise the voters (again and this time by our own party).

And the DNC should have resolved this BEFORE it became confrontational... Like maybe by listening to the people who are tired of always being last to cast votes on who our nominee will be.

As for P.R., I don't give a tinnker's damn about public relations right now. Neither the DNC nor the Democratic members of the Florida Legilature smell like roses right now.

I want my vote and I want it to count. Period. Stop.

[madfloridian]

10. Stomp your feet more.

That might work.

[PurityOfEssence]

16. Laws just suck, don't they? How dare anyone expect you to follow them.

The primary schedule is terrible, and giving Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina some kind of "super-statehood" EVERY ELECTION SEASON is wrong for so many reasons that it's pointless to even start naming them.

When you join an organization, though, you agree to abide by the rules and accept the punishment of the organization if you don't. This is VERY SIMPLE and absolutely cut-and-dried. The "fairness" argument is just bullshit childishness used as an excuse to grab more leverage than the rest of us. It shows a deep selfishness and anti-social willingness to screw over everyone else in order to grab more power. For shame.

What about the second- and third-tier candidates who are marshalling their meager resources to strategically get a foothold? They're the most damaged by this. This simply serves to give the front-runner even more power, and even if I supported her, I'd still say that this is dastardly.

It's bad enough that everyone's stampeding to the front of the line; we're going to know our candidate after possibly less than a month of total voting. Almost by definition, we'll know who it is by February 5th, unless something REALLY weird happens.

They knew the rules. They disobeyed the rules.

What is the matter with this state? Is it something in the water? This is a disruptive, sociopathic move and it was done against fair warning in a blatant thumbing-of-the-nose at the rest of the country's party members. Apologies are owed and it's nauseating to have to even vent on such quaint topics as manners, abiding by the rules of one's organization and suffering the unreasonable horror of behaving like mere equals.

Fine. Hold your primary whenever you please, but don't expect a voice at the convention. Howard Dean is not only correct here, he's to be commended.

[1monster]

17. EXCUSE ME! I didn't break the law, nor did 99 44/100% of the Democratic voters in Florida.

But because the Republican led Legilature (and I'll admit the blue dog Dems in the same) are thumbing their noses at the DNC, I and all those other innocent Democrats in the state are to be punished?

Do you really think that is going to help the DNC gain control?

I don't.

I think it is the begining of the end game for the Dem party. The Republicans will get their wish for one party rule.

How 'bout fining the people who voted to break the rules. Or suspending them from any Dem funds for their reelection campaigns and supporting financially their primary opponents.

I never did believe in group punishment.

Frankly, I've never like the Florida Democratic Legislators, Federal or State. I've called Senator Nelson's office and told them that I's support his primary opponent (if he ever gets one) because of his Repubican Lite voting record.

But that's right. Support masses being punished for the acts of a few instead of putting forth some kind of package that goes after the guilty people.

[PurityOfEssence]

22. Hey, you might be Ivory clean, but so is Marilyn Chambers...

If your leaders screwed you over, you need to apply pressure on your leaders. To just expect to do as you damned well please is an anti-social act. Why is this unclear?

The rules of the Democratic Party were very clear on this and the state leadership knew it. I guess they just didn't think anyone would stand in their way. Why should those of the leadership of one state get to disrupt as they please? What makes you so privileged?

This is how organizations work: we join them and either appoint or elect others to act in our best interests or find a way to become a part of the leadership ourselves. You have no right to be above the rules, and if your state leadership went out willy-nilly, then that's your mistake for entrusting them with the power. Is there no responsibility left in the world? Is ANYTHING ever ANYONE'S actual fault? Let's just call the California Primary for next Tuesday; how'd you like that? We all suffer with the leadership issue, but some of us seem to understand what our personal word of honor means, while others don't. I don't like it when my leaders do boneheaded things, but since I understand my culpability in their being in positions of leadership, I suck it up and live by my word.

Rules are rules. If they suck, do your dead level best to change them. Remember this above all else: other people suffer too, so when you jump to the head of the line, you're screwing over lots of other small people too. Since 1980 this country has become Fuckyouistan, and this form of opportunism is tiresome.

Had there been some remorse in any of this I've read, it might be different, but it's just another example of people disregarding others to do what's best for themselves in blatant disregard for the impact it has on others.

The date was just changed; the argument that it's too late to turn back is utter hogwash. If it costs money, let that be a lesson.

Howard Dean is an absolute hero here, and anyone who says otherwise is deeply, deeply ethically challenged.

[madfloridian]

4. Do you realize the county chair is advising to withhold funding from the DNC?

"The DNC phone# is [phone]. The contributions # is [phone]. They need to hear from you- all of you- on this issue. Please forward this to anyone on you email list that you think would be interested."

[ooglymoogly]

7. with you on this...Nelsone is a deno who can't get elected as

a republican...plain and simple....Howard Dean is the real deal and that is why corporate media trash him even if they have to set him up.

[roxnev]

9. Iit is wide spread

I just got banned from KOs for contesting this The Republicans infiltrated KOs over the last year or so. KOs has what i called the front page or the Recommended list, any way your post stays up most of the day, use to be great then it changed slowly. any way the Republican scum bags attack the Democrats every day by writing hate speeches about Democrat ever day they have hate speech about Democrat Congress personnel they really attack Nance and Harry

Anyway if you write some thing bad about a Republican some Republican will come on and change the subject the comes the puss cat pic.

this is the two post that got me kick off

Why is it if you don’ write hatred about Democrats or advertise a book you can not get a recommend

Who and why recommends a Diary for the Recommended list?
I know they don’t like Bush, are is it they know Bush is done, he can’t be reelected, and can’t be hurt so they say one or two bad things about Bush, the then next ten thousand words bad mouthing Democratic Congress people and turning people against democrats. I will list a few for today Aug 22-2007, it seems to me if you do not cuss a Democrat or advertise a book you will not get Recommended.
And if you bad mouth a Republican you get insulted for bad grammar, bad spelling , putting commas and periods in the right place, what you say is not important. Did it ever occur to you that you might be scarring a person who can’t write well and forcing him to keep his mouth shut, I mean key board quiet. But then that is what you Republicans want.

I can not be insulted about my grammar’ I know the world is full of ass hole that will shit on a handicapped person in a min. Yes I was on disability Social security for twenty years after I turned 66 they put me on social Security. My disability I could not interpret < It only took me twenty min. find the right spelling for the previous word> words most all word sound the same to me.
I read good with help of the dictionary .

The following would come under the Propaganda tool , always use generalities, as told about in another article about Rove, Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler at http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv1ch01.html

Please don’t Recommended I am an old man heart may not take it
Suicide got 232 response

Latest Bush Admin Outrage (and it's a big one)
Is an advertisement to read a AP press report 185 comments

Democratic Capitulators now 'regret' the FISA Cave-In.
Do you understand?
Do you really understand the importance of this?
Do you understand how bad the Bush Administration really is?
Do you?
Do you recognize they have absolutely no credibility? No sense of fair play, no sense of right or wrong?
If they ask for anything - and they will ask for the sun and the moon - you will not give it to them.
Listen to us from now on, not Bush or Cheney.
You KNOW where to find feedback from us. And many of us will be calling you FREQUENTLY with reminders to help you decide correctly.
Do you think you all can do these simplest of things?
Wow the Republicans in congress is 100% great vote republican. 507 comments


The last one was about puss ct posters

[madfloridian]

11. I have verified it is a state wide action to stop donations to the DNC

It is being done by county chairpersons at the behest of the state.

I see the battle here at DU is starting. The left who want 3rd party and want the Democrats to lose to aid in that goal...and the right who are comfortable if Republicans win.

We are in a very sad situation.

[Colonel Bat Guano]

12. Where is the 3rd party action?

I want to vote for a Democratic candidate in Florida. Period.

This has gone too far.

The idea of having a caucus is bullshit in a state this size.

I object to this crap, strongly. It's not a good idea, for some obvious reasons.

In Florida, the Dem voter turnout will be depressed for the primary, making the entire vote count questioned. And there are other issues up that day, like the statewide ballot on property taxes.

If people think the Dem primary is meaningless, Dem candidates will pull back and Dem volunteers will pull out....meaning the entire Republican field will run wild over the entire state for the next year.

The primary date would have passed if EVERY SINGLE DEM CANDIDATE VOTED AGAINST IT. Gov. Charlie Crist has said he won't push for a new date with the legislature. They fucking love this. As long as this goes on, it guarantees a Repub advantage in what should have been the worst Repub year in history.

This is fucking madness.

Anyone who doesn't think so, tell me where you make up the FL electoral deficit. (Don't say CA, there's a chance that gets cut in half.)

Giving away Florida is insulting to the voters who live here, and it's really, really dumb big board strategy.

[madfloridian]

13. Read this forum....follow the bread crumbs.

.

[guruoo]

14. Oh yeah, K&R

As usual, follow the money.
Start with Jeremy Ring.
http://www.flsenate.gov/senatekids/index.cfm?navi=legmenu&main=district32

[flyarm]

15. I hold karen thurman accountable..she is the worst thing that happened to fla dems!

and never ever forget she took $35,000.00 from a rnc lobbyist!

This i believe was planned ..this helps Hillary and Rudy..

and the way the DLC came into my county and screwed our wonderful dems supporting people who changed their registration 6 weeks before the primary in 2006..i have no doubt that our party has been infiltrated in the worst way...it certainly does not represent my democratic values.

and i was a dem delegate in 2004 for my county in Fla

this disgusts me!

fly

[madfloridian]

18. None of them are standing up for honesty and clarity.

.

[jsamuel]

19. This whole thing seems more like an attack on Dean than on the DNC or the primary system.

[madfloridian]

20. Some think it is. Florida doesn't want to share power with 49 other states.

But there is no proof.

It is a state which does not want to share power.

[madfloridian]

21. Florida was not honest, but it is working.

They have most people here terrified of the big bogeyman called the DNC that is going to slip in and take their votes away.

Propaganda has always worked very well.