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What Was The Dems' Excuse For Legislating Warrantless Wiretapping?

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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 08:49 AM
Original message
What Was The Dems' Excuse For Legislating Warrantless Wiretapping?
Seems to me that warrantless wiretapping of US citizens and residents directly violates the fourth amendment of our constitution, and that this is well-established law.

What is the excuse that Congressional Dems are giving for allowing this violation? I've seen a lot of awful things, like voting for the IWR - but at least voting for the IWR was legal, if incredibly stupid. This seems plainly illegal. It's really baffling to me.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Bastards, assholes, creeps, dino's.....
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. I don't know what their excuse is now. But I know what it will be later.
"If we only knew then what we know now."
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. I Guess They See That Frontrunner Presidential Candidates Can Use That Excuse
And it works.

So they have no fear of retribution by the voters.

(We have met the enemy and they is us.)
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superkia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. Remember, I said fix it so it looks close.
Voters wont count if they don't completely fix our voting system. So I guess its getting close to that time where only their pockets mean anything.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. "We were naive, we were snookered."
Nobody could have predicted it, nobody told us, etc.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. Yep- just like we heard from Shumer....
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. They were DUPED!
:puke:
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. And to make matters worse
They were going to let Gonzo set "the guidelines".

It's getting harder and harder to be a Democrat every day. What the fuck are they thinking? Or drinking?
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mahatmakanejeeves Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
5. They were afraid that
if they took the correct stand on an issue, even if that stand was hardly controversial, they might lose an election after the RW turns up its noise machine.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
6. Most of them were DLC, too....
Not all, but almost all:

Pryor (D) Yes
Feinstein (D) Yes
Salazar (D) Yes
Carper (D) Yes
Nelson (D) Yes
Inouye (D) Yes
Bayh (D) Yes
Landrieu (D) Yes
Mikulski (D) Yes
Klobuchar (D) Yes
McCaskill (D) Yes
Nelson (D) Yes
Conrad (D) Yes
Casey (D) Yes
Webb (D) Yes

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070804/ap_on_go_co/senate_... ;_ylt=ArM1OzeYMvlpTRO0YbVxVLEGw_IE

Shame on each and every one of them. They are Colluders, enablers, and DINO.

TC
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Webb? That's Surprising To Me.
I thought he was better than this. Maybe there's something about this vote that I'm not getting.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I know.
Edited on Sat Aug-04-07 09:24 AM by Totally Committed
It's like we can't trust ANY of them now.

Cripes... Boxer campaigned for Lieberman in CT. I'm sick of the frigging lot of them.

TC

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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
25. Why do people always say they are surprised by Webb each time he casts a centrist vote
Just this year:
- He voted against Feingold/Reid
- He voted against a Kerry/Feingold bill that required water projects consider the impact of global warming
- He voted against a Sanders amendment on taxing the estate tax.

He has added to the number we have in the caucus and he did speak well in response to the President's state of the union, but his status here is blind hero worship.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. I see what you're saying, but...
Warrantless wiretapping is kind of extreme-RW, imo. It's allowing Gonzalez to continue to spy on Americans without any accountability or oversight. It goes directly against American's right to privacy.

Extremist. Right-Wing. And it should go against every true Democrat's sense of what's right.

Just may opinion, though.

TC

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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. I get what you are saying
what shocks my is that there were 16 cross-overs! That really makes this a bi-partisan position.

My comment was that Webb is likely the most lionized of the new Senators - with some here crediting him over peple like Feingold, or saying that he will get us out of Iraq - vs Kerry.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. did any Goopers vote no?
or were they all obedient little gonzo lapdogs?
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ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. They were all obedient lapdogs n/t
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. Here, let me dress that up for you a bit
Lincoln (D) - DLC
Pryor (D) - DLC
Feinstein (D) - DLC
Salazar (D) - DLC
Carper (D) - DLC
Nelson (D) - DLC
Inouye (D) - DLC
Bayh (D) - DLC
Landrieu (D) - DLC
Mikulski (D)
Klobuchar (D) - new seantor DSCC's chosen candidate.
McCaskill (D) - new senator Vice-chair of the Third Way
Nelson (D) - DLC
Conrad (D) - DLC
Casey (D) - new senator DSCC chosen candidate
Webb (D) - new senator DSSC chose candidate


Looks to me that the Shumer/DLC axis has bit us in the ass once again. Most of these people are repeat offenders. Most of them have voted with Bush on big bills in Congress more than 50% of the time. And we rarely talk about them.

I cannot explain Mikulski'd defection, but I can point to insider politics, third way bullshit for the rest.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Shocking developments!
Who could have seen THAT coming?
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
10. So, To Sum Up
The only reason seems to be that it could suck more.

Oh good.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. My only guess is that they were afraid if an attack happens in the future
that the blame would fall upon them for not passing legislation that *could have* prevented it ... I don't think it is fear of the rw noise machine per se - but the rw noise machine if there were a national security disaster.
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CitizenLeft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I think you're right
The right wing escalated the fear-mongering to such a screech that the ones who voted for it were afraid of any backlash. Unconscionable.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
27. Its the combination of the politics of fear, on the one side, and
Edited on Sat Aug-04-07 02:19 PM by salin
the politics of fear-driven political calculus on the other.

With our (citizens') best interests not figuring in either side of the equation.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. I believe the explanation was "see figure one".
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. FEINSTEIN ADMITTED SHE NEVER READ IT when she voted yes.
WHAT THE "F" is wrong with our senators?

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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
18. "It's only for six months" a temporary outrage. As if Al Qaeda even communicates electronically
now in the first place. Let's see what new liberal groups are sucked into the web this time. Ragin' Grannies, check. Quakers, check. Green Party, check.

Hippie types with tye-died T-shirts worn under business suits, check.

Next come the mandatory sigmoidoscopies.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
24. It's a bill to monitor "foreign terrorists" according to the AP.
The 60-28 roll call by which the Senate voted to temporarily give President Bush expanded authority to eavesdrop on foreign terrorists without court warrants.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070804/ap_on_go_co/senate_... ;_ylt=ArM1OzeYMvlpTRO0YbVxVLEGw_IE
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against all enemies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
26. Fear

Fear of being painted weak on terror.

Bush (and Rove/Cheney) still go to bed at night thinking the Democrats are their bitches.

They may be right.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
29. Bush wanted this to rubberstamp what he was already doing...
is what I read. Correct? No?

In other words, one of the protections the W.H. is going for in their warrantless wiretapping, to protect them from criminal charges, is to get what they were ALREADY doing passed as law. Even if it wasn't legal at the time they did the wiretapping, it's kinda hard to press charges against someone who did something that is NOW legal.

Why would the Dems pass this, and give Bush and Gonzales an easy out? Esp. in the middle of going after Gonzales trying to press Ashcroft in his hospital bed to approve what Ashcroft thought was illegal?

I am VERY disappointed in this and don't understand it, unless the bill does something other than what I've heard it does.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
30. Hard to have faith in the party these days...
Those who say the grassroots are used and then stabbed in the back make a damn good case!
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
31. WRONGO. Read the details.
You've gone off the deep end. Read the facts first.

SO, how many secret domestic spy programs are there anyway, and are they legal?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
33. 'We don't have the votes' to keep ourselves from enabling Bush
sarcasm
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-04-07 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. LOL
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