Did Obama have a Joe Lieberman moment?

[Jersey Devil]

I have to say that I haven't yet read Obama's full statement on how he would deal with terrorism, but if the news reports are anything near accurate I think he may have inserted his foot firmly into his mouth up to his knee.

Of all the things I don't think any Americans really want to hear about right now I think talk of another war, even if only a remote possibility, is not going to be very good for the Obama campaign and that it is one of those gaffes that he will have to explain over and over and over and over again in the primaries and then quadruple that if he does get the nomination.

What's with some of our Democratic pols that they feel every once in a while that they have to play cowboy like Bush to get ahead politically?

I really like Obama but I am beginning to think that he is not ready for prime time. How he handles the fuss over this (and boy, there will be a fuss) will tell the tale.

[Old and In the Way]

1. Personally, if you are concerned, I would read the full text of his statement,

then decide for yourself what he was saying. It may underscore your concern or it may relieve it. Maybe it's me, but I doubt any of our candidates will conduct foreign policy in the Cheney-Bush mold. Does that mean we don't react if there is a compelling threat to thwart? I hope not...but I do expect our Democrats to share their proof in a transparent manner if they are going to justify any action anywhere in the world.

[Jersey Devil]

6. I just did, thanks, and

his speech was not nearly as inflammatory as some media outlets have characterized it. However, that said, I believe someone running for President should tread very carefully before making a statement about going into (I won't say "invade" because clearly that is not what he meant)another country (in his case, making a strike if we had the intel is what I understood him to say).

So after reading what he said does not really scare me. But I think it may scare a lot of people who won't take the time to read it all and from that point of view it may have been a bad mistake to even bring up the subject.

I also wonder if it wasn't a calculated attempt to head off some of the complete garbage about his name, heritage, etc., by showing just how macho he'd be with Muslim terrorists. If so, I doubt it was necessary.

[Buzz Clik]

2. Here's a link:

Will Pitt's analysis and a link to the full text.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1488436

[Jersey Devil]

12. For those who say read the full text first, you're right, but

I did read the text and while I can now see that what he said was mischaracterized to a large extent, shouldn't his campaign have known that exact result would occur due to his statements?

You really can't blame the media for this imo. The media just did what it always does, try to sell ads with inflammatory headlines. His campaign should have seen this coming from a mile away.

[dancingme]

3. he wants to find Bin Laden

I'm for that!

[draft_mario_cuomo]

4. No. This is what he really believes

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3419723

[JerseygirlCT]

21. I like your name

I think I've still got a copy of his 1984 convention speech tucked away somewhere. It was amazing!

[draft_mario_cuomo]

22. Thanks

You can watch clips of it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOdIqKsv624 :hi:

[JerseygirlCT]

24. Thanks! nt

[quinnox]

5. Obama the hawk?

What is odd about this is it comes on the heels of Obama talking about diplomacy and he would meet with the leaders of rogue nations, that he isn't afraid to talk with them, then he turns around and says he is going to invade Pakistan for terrorists if the President of Pakistan doesn't do it.

Two very different messages within a short time frame.

The strong on terrorists message isn't that unusual, but this hawkish stance is jarring compared to the recent stands he has taken. Why can't he engage in diplomacy with Mussharef instead of invading the country?

Obama's campaign IMHO is being managed badly, I don't blame Obama for that, but his manager.

[Jersey Devil]

7. I think you're onto something

The trouble for Obama is that this makes Hillary look like the wise old pro who keeps her tongue in check and doesn't say things that might be inflammatory for someone who is to be a future President. That is the key. Was he presidential in making the statement or does it just make Hillary look like more of a statesman?

After 6 years of Bush, do people want saber rattling or statesmanship? I think that is the $64 question.

[quinnox]

8. agree

This does make Hillary look more presidential, it looks like Obama is trying to look tough as if he is worried that Hillary's "Obama is naive on foreign policy" comments actually hit home.

[bling bling]

10. I think it's too early to say whether it's bad management.

I did think Hillary's speech about it was actually better. Especially since she'd already talked with Pakistan.

But it's hard to say at this point though if it will reflect badly on his campaign. The last time this happened over the diplomacy thing I had to sit back and wait a few days to see how it played out. Just as I'd hoped, both Hillary AND Obama both came out looking alright on the foreign policy question. I thought it actually turned out pretty well for both of them, and also in terms of reminding Americans almost subconsciously that diplomacy is the best policy. It was pretty brilliant, really, even if they didn't mean it to be.

I'm almost hoping the same thing will happen with this. I just read Pakistan's comments to Obama about being responsible and not trying to use them to score political points. I thought their comments were legitimate, yet really pretty innocuous to Obama.

We'll see how this one ends up.

[quinnox]

16. It probably is just a blip

on the campaign radar, and won't have any lasting effects.

Hillary certainly won't attack Obama over being tough on terrorists, but I can see how some on the interent would be upset over Obama's comments.

Still, I think it shows Obama's campaign needs to be tightened up, but it is my opinion. It's possible Obama will actually gain from this in the polling, even if it pisses some of the far left bloggers off.

However I do believe Obama is capable of a "Dean scream" like moment, and needs to be careful as the campaign continues to avoid a major blunder.

[bling bling]

28. The media inventing another Dean Scream is my biggest fear for him.

It truly is. I'm not so concerned about Hillary because if she doesn't know the media by now, nobody does. I worry all the time with Obama about how the media will dramatize something he says or does and unfairly kill his chances before the people get to decide for themselves. My first big scare was with Obama's "quiet riot" comment a month or so ago. Thank god they didn't try to capitalize on the opportunity for inventing drama on that one. The advantage the candidates have this time over the Dems in 2000 and 2004 is that we can't say we have any misgivings about whether or not the media will try to be fair. By now they ought to have a pretty good idea of what they're up against. (I hope).

[draft_mario_cuomo]

13. He is down to 21% in Rass' poll--his lowest number since he joined the race

That may explain the sudden saberattling...

[Jersey Devil]

15. I haven't made up my mind, but this pushes me away from Obama

If he can recover from this I will give him a lot of credit and then maybe I can look at it as an accomplishment for him that shows he is worthy of the nomination. But I think now Hillary and Edwards will beat him over the head with this so bad he will not recover.

I am not saying he is done, just that he's just built a mountain for himself to scale and he better do it in a hurry.

[Buck Rabbit]

18. Actually, negoiating with Mussharef requires a threat of force.

Heck, he admitted in an interview on The Daily Show and in his book that when asked to cooperate and turn against the Taliban who were sponsored by the Pakistanis or be "bombed back into the stone ages", he measured if he could fight the US and stick with the Taliban. His conclusion was the US military was a greater threat to his survival than the Taliban and their in country supporters.

Mussharef is a military man, calculations of the exercise of force are a component in all dealings with him, be it with the US, India or his domestic opponents.

[Jersey Devil]

19. So you think Obama raising the possibililty of another war was wise?

Do you really think the American people, so sick of over 5 years of war in Iraq (not to mention Afghanistan) will embrace a new president who before he even gets the nomination for the office is talking about the possibility of another war?

I don't.

[Buck Rabbit]

23. Obama is not talking about a war with Pakistan.

He is talking about hot pursuit and surgical strikes.

I think you would find overwhelming support in America for an air-strike to kill OBL in Pakistani territory whether Mussaref likes it or not. After it is done you let him rant and rave and then say "sorry I won't kill him again." Mussaref is absolutely not suicidal, he is a survivor.

There would be no support for an invasion of Pakistan but that is not what he suggested.

[Jersey Devil]

25. Yes, you are right, but that is not the problem

Having read Obama's statement I agree with you about what he said. But, he and his campaign should have realized how it would be reported and clearly they did not. That's Bush League, not Major League.

[Buck Rabbit]

26. Maybe, I know it plays badly to many on the left.

I am not so sure it plays so badly to the middle that might worry that Obama won't be tough enough on defense. Perhaps he should have held off on that until the general election, I am not sure how it will play in the Democratic primaries.

[IndianaJones]

9. Obama stumbled badly. nt.

[Exultant Democracy]

11. So you have no clue what his real statement was do you, just like the OP

seems like none of the people up in arms bothered to inform themselves.

[Jersey Devil]

14. It really doesn't matter what is in his statement

I read his statement and yeah, the news media distorted what he said somewhat, but not completely.

Either Obama or his campaign, or both, made a very bad mistake in not recognizing that the speech would be controversial.

[IndianaJones]

17. I've read it...he stumbled. nt.

[JerseygirlCT]

20. I admit, I haven't read the whole speech.

(too tired to plow through that right now).

But, in actuality, there are some true and good points there. Our focus on Iraq did take the focus off AQ's "home base" in Afghanistan/Pakistan. Pakistan most likely HAS been busy playing both sides for its own benefit. Meanwhile the Taliban and most likely AG, continues to thrive there.

I'm not eager for more war, but I would most certainly like to see us get a whole lot more sophisticated about how we deal with Pakistan. And I'd like to see us out of the mess (the useless mess I should say) in Iraq.

From what I did read, I didn't get playing cowboy here. I got, "we're ignoring a big problem because we're obsessed with the problem we've made."

[draft_mario_cuomo]

27. Neocon Terry Jeffrery: This moves Obama closer to * than to Hillary

He lavished praise on it and compared it to *'s 2nd inaugural, which ranks up there with Reagan's Berlin speech in neocon lore.

[flpoljunkie]

29. Terry Jeffrey is working hard, just like Dick Cheney, to get us to pick Hillary as our nominee.

Let's not take the bait.

[Like It Is]

30. Obama is definitely not a prime time player .

That is why Biden's experience is such a strong point.

[Divine Discontent]

31. I think Biden will climb up a few points in the next month

he impressed my friend with his Letterman showing of stability, normal guy talk and self inflicting humor! Obama will drop to high teens, and Edwards will drop unless he steps it up and starts going after Hillary hard. I'm not sure what's going on, because they're being relatively easy on her, and according to widespread belief, the one who wins our nomination is odds on fave for president. Hillary is coasting, and doing a good job with it. I like Clark & Gore, but they're just saying nada right now, and so I hope for Edwards then Biden, I will vote for any other Dem, but I feel they will not win any of the battleground states, just a hunch that feels horrible, but I still feel it and I've said before, I was nearly spot on about our seats in Congress months before the election.