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MalloyLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 10:44 AM
Original message
To all you Obama supporters
Edited on Wed Aug-01-07 10:45 AM by MalloyLiberal
So who is going to fight this war in Pakistan?

I guess you're volunteering to go sign up? Because you know our army is stretched thin.

Go to the recruiting office and sign up for President Obama's endless war in Pakistan!

If you don't you're chickenshit. Lots of talk but no supporting your President Obama.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hyperbole, anyone?
Edited on Wed Aug-01-07 10:47 AM by Buzz Clik
Next up: dueling with Zell Miller. Spitballs at twenty paces.

Please read this OP:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Seriously, read it. Then, plead with the mods to delete this thread.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Sign up for the duel with Zell Miller? Count me in!
Sign up for your over-the-top, out of context, smear the candidate rant? I'll pass.
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. AP: "Obama might send troops into Pakistan "
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070801/ap_on_el_pr/obama_t...

Major gaffe on Obama's part, his words can be interpeted as not excluding use of ground forces. The MSM will certainly desiminate this far and wide; Hillary can just sit back and enjoy. Personally, infighting gets us nowhere, and Dems should be ripping at St. Rudy's halo. It that shithead is nominated, we're in trouble.

WASHINGTON - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Wednesday that he would possibly send troops into Pakistan to hunt down terrorists, an attempt to show strength when his chief rival has described his foreign policy skills as naive.


The Illinois senator warned Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf that he must do more to shut down terrorist operations in his country and evict foreign fighters under an Obama presidency, or Pakistan will risk a U.S. troop invasion and losing hundreds of millions of dollars in U.S. military aid.

"Let me make this clear," Obama said in a speech prepared for delivery at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. "There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al-Qaida leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will.]/b]"


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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
2. I forsee the next couple of weeks will be filled with
Mindless defense of Obama's latest gaffe, even when we all know that had Hillary said what Obama just did, the Obamanites' heads would have exploded with rage.
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MalloyLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Oh absolutely
And I'm not even a Hillary supporter, but she's right on this issue, invading them is not the right solution.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Gaffe? LOL!
God, I hate political campaigns.

Read this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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JANdad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. OK...so I read it...and your point is what?
"I will not hesitate to use military force to take out terrorists who pose a direct threat to America."

If I did not know any better, this quote could come straight form the lips of George Bush himself...fuck that noise thank you very much!

This is classic...reminds me of a photo of GWB looking out the window at N.O.

"When you travel to the world's trouble spots as a United States Senator, much of what you see is from a helicopter. So you look out, with the buzz of the rotor in your ear, maybe a door gunner nearby, and you see the refugee camp in Darfur, the flood near Djibouti, the bombed out block in Baghdad. You see thousands of desperate faces.

What a tool!

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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
57. You've got to be kidding.
Edited on Wed Aug-01-07 12:38 PM by Buzz Clik
So what? SO WHAT?

"I will not hesitate to use military force to take out terrorists who pose a direct threat to America."

What's the alternative?

"If we are threatened by terrorists, I will take a poll to see if the anti-violence left-wingers will tolerate aggressive actions. If not, well, what the hell. How bad could it be?"

Sorry, but that's exactly what we want for a president. Clinton was that way, and we should never hesitate to defend ourselves.

Let me guess -- you're a Kucinich fan. (You couldn't possibly be an Edwards supporter, because even he isn't that unrealistic)

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JANdad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. I remember when I heard a president
refer to several nations as the "Axis of Evil" and used a lot of tough talk. He alienated us from the majority of the world...I do not want any more tough talk...
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. Yeah, me too. I keep hoping that Al Gore will come back to sing to us again:
"So look for the union label..."

We could all use a lullaby right now.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
7. Please do not read this post:
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. That post doesn't address what was actually said-
Which was:

"There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al-Qaida leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will."

Sovereignty- Look it up.
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. right- "we will" wasn't highlighted in the excerpt.
That certainly does not exclude the use of ground forces. Major gaffe; he really comes off like an amateur. SORRY.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
8. I guess you didn't read this part:
Obama also:

-- Says his anti-terrorism strategy is predicated on a withdrawal from Iraq
-- Calls for two additional combat brigades to be sent to Afghanistan
-- Says the war in Iraq has made the U.S. more susceptible to terrorist attacks
-- Defines the major threat to U.S. security as "violent extemists" who pervert the Muslim faith
-- Proposes a $5B "shared security partnership" to "forge an international intelligence and law enforcement infrastructure to take down terrorist networks from the remote islands of Indonesia, to the sprawling cities of Africa."

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/08/ob...
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
9. I'm an Obama supporter. So is my Indie husband--he's in the Air Force,
and prepared to go where President Obama sends him! I was just saying two weeks ago that we might have to extend our efforts in Afghanistan over the border, since Musharraf seems unwilling or unable to stop AQ from re-strengthening. It's like Obama read my mind...
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MalloyLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Yep! Lets go piss off other countries!!
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. What other countries are going to be pissed off at our fight against the REAL al Qaeda?
For all we know, Musharraf may just decide to leave the western border area to us--I'm pretty sure he doesn't want AQ to spread and take control of Pakistan (and its nukes) either. This is a dire situation, if allowed to continue unchecked.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. 'Scuse me?
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JANdad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #31
39. Blindly follow untested leaders to war...
Was I not clear????
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #39
44. My bad, I didn't realize Obama had declared war on Pakistan.
I thought he just made a speech about how he would go about tracking down and fighting terrorists. That's quite an irrational leap you just made there.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #22
37. So because one supports a responsible plan to aggresively pursue terrorists is a Chimpy supporter?
Um...bugger off...
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
23. saber-rattling and threatening to invade sovereign nations
to impress our electorate and advance one's political ambitions is not helpful or wise. The word "reckless" comes to mind.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #23
32. He's being realistic. He's not saying he definitely WOULD, or HOW--
just holding it out there as a last resort, if Pakistan can't get control of AQ.
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #32
38. you don't show your hand to an opponent
Edited on Wed Aug-01-07 11:53 AM by npincus
and in matters of war, in particular. Lobbing threats across the globe is not wise, not helpful--a rookie mistake.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. He's not the prez yet, first of all--
he's saying what he WOULD do, if he were--he's not telegraphing our next move. And I'm pretty sure Pakistan realizes the debate going on within the CURRENT administration over what to do about AQ in their country.
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
10. I'll read his speech first before jumping all over something the MSM reported.
Edited on Wed Aug-01-07 10:56 AM by Connie_Corleone
However, Obama never said he was anti all wars. Neither am I. I'm not going to start being a hypocrite now. I have said from the beginning that Bush should've finished the job in Afghanistan. Now, Osama Bin Laden and others are in Pakistan because of Bush's idiotic war in Iraq.

I have to read what Obama's plan is regarding Pakistan before commenting on it.
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bluethruandthru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
13. I don't support any candidate yet...
but you might want to read the entire speech. It doesn't seem to me that he's advocating an invasion. :shrug:
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
16. I like Obama...this looks like a huge gaffe on his part, from what I have seen. nt.
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
17. Just as silly
as excoriating Hillary for not absiolutely ruling out military action against Iran. You absolutely cannot absolutely rule out anything so "might in some circumstances" is right whether Hillary says it or Obama says it.

I just wish everybody were as consistent. Even if you think it's wrong, at least have the intellectual honesty to think it equally wrong.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
20. Not an Obama supporter, but I think you are way overstating his position.
I think he wants to go after Al Qaeda terror camps in surgical strikes and do this in conjunction with extricating ourselves from this occupation in Iraq. This was always the right way to deal with terror and we all know Pakistan is a major sanctuary for these fighters.

Personally, I think the real way to go after these guys is dealing with the financial networks that use AQ to further the agenda of some very rich clients....

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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
21. Go hide yourself in a hole and it will all just go away...
Ignore what's ACTUALLY happening and it will all disappear. Pakistan? Like what-uver dude...

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JANdad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Your sig line does not match your commnets friend...
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TeamJordan23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
24. Go read the speech. He never has talked about war. nm
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
26. Talk about overreacting! I just read the part in the speech about Pakistan.
It doesn't say anything about invading Pakistan. Actually, Obama talks about helping Musharraf get rid of the AQ and taliban fighters, not attacking the country.

READ THE DAMN SPEECH.
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JANdad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. I did...did you?
"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will."



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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. Yeah, does that mean dropping bombs and boots on the ground in Islamabad?
Or does it mean limited action where they're holed up near the border of Afghanistan? Maybe just airstrikes? How do we know that Musharraf would even be opposed to this, if it ever came to pass? People are making this into an Iraq-style invasion, which is NOT what he said.
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #27
36. What did I just write above you?
Edwards' would do the same thing. You're deluding yourself if you think Edwards would not do the same thing. The only president that wouldn't do it is Bush. He had a chance to kill the AQ leadership and he didn't do it.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
28. How is Edwards going to do it?
"As President of the United States I will do absolutely everything to find terrorists where they are, to stop them before they can do harm to us, before they can do harm to America or to its allies." (John Edwards, New Hampshire Debate 6/3/07)



Will he leave them be in Pakistan but go after them everywhere else in the world?


How does it work :shrug:
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JANdad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. This thread is not about JE...(as much as you would like it to be)
But since you asked:

A "Smart Power" Strategy Against Terrorism's Root Causes

Terrorism takes root in weak and failing states. Poverty increases the risk to America by providing a safe harbor for instability, extremism, and terrorism. As president, Edwards will attack these root causes with dramatic increases in funding for global primary education, clean drinking water, protection of constitutional and democratic rights, and economic opportunity.

http://johnedwards.com/issues/terrorism /

btw...funny thing about Obama's website...no mention of a terrorist fighting plan that I could find...

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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Root causes is one thing
To "find terrorists where they are" is something else.

How will he "find terrorists where they are, to stop them before they can do harm to us, before they can do harm to America" without going to Pakistan?
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JANdad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. OK...Am I talking with Cheney here...
We have been attacked exactly TWICE by terroists...in one instance they were caught and in another we still have not found them...In the immortal words of Lynn Samuels..."How the fuck are they going to get over here"

The Obama supporters today are starting to sound like Sean Hannity loving Neo-Cons in the defense of him...We are not in danger of being attacked...let it go and focus on the real issues...
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #33
41. "We are not in danger of being attacked"? Well, the latest NIE says we are--
AQ has regrouped and is as strong as on 9/10. But because if GWB says there's terra, it's automatically untrue, right? We don't have enemies, right? It's all going to be sunshine and marshmallows from here on out, if Edwards becomes Prez. Puh-leez.
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JANdad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. Maybe...Just Maybe...
If we stop the saber-rattling for a second...we would be just a little safer...whadya think?
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. Yes, you're right. We should invite OBL to Camp David for summit talks, instead
of trying to hunt him down and kill him. That would earn the respect of all of radical Islam, and then we would live in peace forevermore.
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JANdad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Answer one question for me...
By what right do we invade and occupy or meddle in the affairs of other sovereign nations?
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Afghanistan? Or did you not support that war?
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JANdad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. By what RIGHT?
Please answer the above question...what gives us the AUTHORITY?
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Countries that openly, actively, knowingly harbor terrorists who kill our people
are essentially engaging in aggression towards us--to fight those terrorists is self-defense. That's why we invaded Afghanistan. If you don't think we had that right, then we'll have to disagree.
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JANdad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. From what country were we attacked?
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Oh lordy, we're going to go in circles. The Taliban regime in Afgh.
supported AQ. Thus we fight them. If you're arguing that the hijackers came from Saudi, I agree, there's a real inconsistency there. But the head of their organization was given safe harbor in Afgh.
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JANdad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Oh...just wanted to make sure that I didn't miss
a declaration of war by a foreign country...

I truly believe that we have learned nothing from the past 20 plus years...one can not fight an idea...

We really have to re-evaluate our tactics and approach this mess from a completely different direction...and maybe...just maybe that would mean inviting your "enemies" to a meeting to work out the differences and grieveances...
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #33
47. In the immortal words of John Edwards...
"find terrorists where they are, to stop them before they can do harm to us, before they can do harm to America"

Maybe he's the one talking with Dick Cheney?

I guess he thinks they can get over here and he wants to stop them first. So how will he do that? Find them and stop them before they get over here? How will he do it without addressing the inescapable fact that Al Qaeda is in Pakistan?


I am not an Obama supporter (and I do not advocate an invasion of Pakistan), so save the insults for when your aim is truer :hi:



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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #29
40. And we all know the 9/11 terrorists were poor sheep herders.
:eyes:
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JANdad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #40
55. And your point is what?
Edited on Wed Aug-01-07 12:31 PM by edwardsguy
That poverty does not breed terrorism? That lack of oppportunities in the ME does not give radicals the power of influence over desperate minds? Or do you simply believe that they "hate us for our freedoms"?

edit for content
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
35. If we were fighting in Afghanistan
and not lost in this mess in Iraq, I imagine a larger number of people would be happy to sign up. Around 90% of Americans supported going into Afghanistan and are sick of these border games Bush has allowed to go on so that they could build their pipe lines.
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CGowen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
49. Newt Gingrich said Hillary + Obama
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_21...

Washington - Democrats will nominate Hillary Rodham Clinton for president in 2008 and Barack Obama will be her running mate, former Republican House Speaker Newt Gingrich predicts.
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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 12:17 PM
Original message
It's New't wet dream...
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
50. Special Forces would do such an operation. They don't have recruiting problems.
This thread is really an insult.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
53. May be because Obama never said that?\nt
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-01-07 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
61. Locking
This is inflammatory. Do not post messages that are inflammatory, extreme, divisive, incoherent, or otherwise inappropriate. Do not engage in anti-social, disruptive, or trolling behavior. Do not post broad-brush, bigoted statements.
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