Rich Lowery on Clinton: I will never support her, nor will I ever again underestimate her

[wyldwolf]

HILLARY Clinton has led in almost every national poll among the Democratic presidential candidates, usually by double digits. She has turned in a solid, self-assured performance in all the debates, has revved up an impressive organization and hasn't made a major mistake under the glare of a media that magnify everything she does.

Clinton is the underestimated front-runner. How much will-he-or-won't-he commentary has been devoted to almost-certainly-won't Al Gore, and how many glossy pages and adoring column inches to Barack Obama, as she continues her steady march toward the nomination?

Conservative commentators like me have especially tended to discount her. We have argued that she'd never dare to run for Senate in New York; that if she ran, she'd be a terrible candidate; and that if she really ran for president, she would collapse under the weight of her own dullness and high negatives. Alas and alack, it is instead incontrovertible that — in her own way — she's a talented politician who has a clear path to the Democratic presidential nomination and to the presidency.

She's not a natural, a fact highlighted all the more by her association by marriage to the great natural politician of his generation. If the test of a candidate is whether you would like to sit down and have a beer with her, she will never pass it.

She excels on other tests...

n those moments in the Democratic debates that have offered a choice between saying what the pacifist left wants to hear or saying what someone who might someday be president should say, she has done the latter. Her default mode is seriousness, and all her preparation shows. When she was asked in the most recent debate about the possibility of nearly three decades of a Bush or Clinton in the While House, I found myself commenting to a friend, "Watch — she'll hit this out of the park." Which she did with a joke about regretting that Bush won in 2000.

She was ready for the question, unsurprisingly. Her campaign operation is like something out of "Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines." It knows how to attack and parry and do it efficiently. It is inconceivable that she would ever be embarrassed by her campaign the way Obama has been by his a few times this year — and if she were, someone would probably get fired.

Obama has generated a lot of excitement. Maybe he will end up swamping Clinton, or she'll be done in by some unforeseeable issue or gaffe, or her high negatives will convince Democrats that someone else is a safer bet to get elected next year. But it doesn't look likely when Clinton has run a nearly flawless campaign and has done more than any other Democrat to show she's ready to be president.

I will never support her, but nor will I ever again underestimate her.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/opinion/tribune/ci_6498527

[BeyondGeography]

1. So the people who respect her won't vote for her anyway

That's part of the problem.

[CTyankee]

3. I don't think this guy would support ANY Dem candidate in the general election.

His knee would jerk and he'd vote Repub.

I'm mulling over early polls of the general population voters to see any hint of which Dem I should support (I am interested in winning this time). But the polls are just too early. Lots of time before the crowning moment of the primaries...

[Atman]

4. And no one seems to have met one of these mythical Hillary supporters.

I'm not making any claim of support for this particular article, however someone posted about this subject last week, and I think even posted a poll. The response was nearly universal; despite the GOP controlled media telling us that Hillary is leading in every poll, in some by double digits, no one seemed to be able to recall meeting anyone who supports her. I haven't. And I'm as Democratic as they come.

Have you? Have you met a Hillary supporter, I mean someone who really likes Hillary and is excited about voting for her? Well?

Name 'em! Has ANYONE met more than one person -- or even one -- who would call themselves a Hillary supporter? Yet the media lie, the set-up for the pre-ordained selection by The System, is in place. If they keep telling us we all love her, when they install her we'll all just say "Oh well, maybe I'm just hanging in different Democratic cirlces" and we won't question it.

But we should. In a big way. The same nefarious forces which installed Bush for their own gain will do the same for Hillary. And just as with Bush, we'll sit back and take it.

This country is in a very, very sad state. And it is getting worse quickly.

.

[wyldwolf]

5. if you think Hillary supporters are mythical, you're deluded.

[Captain Hilts]

6. Our friendships and associations are very 'self-selecting'. They're not indicative of the gen. pop.

[Atman]

13. Generally, sure, but also generally that's nonsense.

We don't "self-select" who is going to be voting for someone in the future, because we have no way of knowing who they'll vote for or what turns the race will take. In fact, I just spent the weekend on a white water rafting trip wherein my wife and I appeared to be the only Democrats. Our travel mates were absolutely Republicans, and we met up with another group who were NASCAR Republicans. Of course, we figured in best not to bring up politics, but I assure you, there were no Hillary supporters there. Not one.

Then we stopped by Kennebunkport to wave at the Bush's and show our support (cough cough).

Just remember, all generalizations are false. :hi:

.

[Captain Hilts]

30. How many people who work minimum wage were on your white-water rafting trip? Couples w/2 jobs each?

We have Democrats AND Republicans in the Lexington Ave. opera club!!!!

Yes, we DO run in certain demographic, socio-economic circles.

Generalizations are true, as in this case, when there are decades of data to support it.

[Atman]

35. My post was in reponse to the "self-selection" generalization.

So do you think I self-selected this group of Republicans because they agree with my politics? My point was to rebut the other post's implication that my observations are invalid because I (and everyone else) tend to hang out only with people who already agree with their beliefs.

Even with the Republican couple we traveled with, I regularly laid into BushCo, and used every opportunity to do so (the logging in Maine, the price of gas, the cliched NASCAR Republicans who didn't appear that they'd be able to even NAME the current president, let alone support Hillary). You should see my great pics from our stop in Kennebunkport...they wanted a photo of us to "blackmail" us with to our Dem friends (jokingly, of course), so we posed with Walker Point in the background giving a thumbs up and "Hook 'em horns" sign. Did I expect many others in this particular group to support Hillary? Of course not (in fairness, we first met many of the group of 11 when we arrived, they were friends and family of our Republican travel-mates. But are these the ONLY people I hang around? Of course not. I hang around with ALL WALKS, and I'm telling you it's not self-selection that I don't know one single person who will vote for her.

Perhaps you have a better explanation as to why. I lead a pretty active social life, probably a 75%-25% mix of D's and R's...yet gosh...I can't find anyone who supports Hillary Clinton for president. Yet a common theme among both groups is that most would NEVER vote for her, no matter what.

I'm just making an observation based upon years of being involved in this shit.

BTW, the "all generalizations are false" line is a joke. Think about it.

.

[Captain Hilts]

67. There are important demographics other than partisanship.

Yep, I've worked in "this shit."

[Atman]

69. Of course. Which is why I don't limit my friends to Democrats.

It seems half the posts in this thread are deliberately obtuse. What are you saying, Mookie? Is this an insult or a post of agreement? I post that 75% of my friends lean Democratic, yet I just spent the weekend with a group of Republicans. I ski/snowboard with one of these same Republicans, and my only other regular skiing buddy is Republican. I've written about both of them many times here on DU. I have many Dem friends who are far more liberal than I, and many Republican friends who now hate Bush.

IOW, I genuinely feel that my lifestyle and my circle of friends is very rounded, across virtually all demographics. So I feel I have some valid insight to offer. What are YOU saying? Do you now disagree with me or agree with me?

Can't someone just post DIRECTLY what they're saying? Not just subject line and a snark?

.

[MGKrebs]

43. Generalizations may have exceptions, but that doesn't make them false.

[Atman]

45. Re-read the line several times until you get it.

"All generalizations are false."

If you're not comprehending why this is a joke, you are basically proving my point about taking things too literally.

.

[BeyondGeography]

7. I haven't met them in real life; this place is full of them though

I don't doubt that she has many supporters; I do think her polling numbers are inflated at this early stage of the game because she is the well-known, annointed frontrunner, and there are too many good alternatives in this race for it not to tighten over time (at least that is my hope). Few people that I know are paying very close attention to the '08 campaign right now. They might be the sane ones.

The point of my response is that while she has made herself intellectually appealing to the right, they still hate her anyway. There's a healthy amount of irrationality in their response, but there it is.

[tblue37]

11. You make a good point about name recognition inflating poll

numbers. At this point in the last presidential race, Joe Lieberman was the candidate the others couldn't catch in the polls.

Also, her recognized name is the same name as that of the last president we had that people actually liked. and on top of that, her name recognition is constantly being reinforced by the media's incessantant touting of her as the unbeatable candidate for the nominaiton.

I don't think we will be able to get a sense of anything until next year (unless Al Gore gets into the race this fall, which would really shake things up quite a lot). One very real risk, though, in this long preprimary season is that her machine could easily suck all of the air and money our of the race so no one else would have a chance.

She is not among my top three or four choices for the nomination, but if she does get it, I will work my butt of to support her--or whoever does get it.

[zulchzulu]

8. I've met some Clinton supporters...

...who now support Obama.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

63. Yes, of the "thousands" of people you claim to have talked to not one supports Clinton

:spray:

[DU9598]

9. Bumperstickers

Well, here in Des Moines, there are quite a few Hillary bumperstickers on the freeway ... I am supposing that they are supporters. I am still up in the air. I am a 2004 Edwards man, but leaning more towards Hillary or Barack this round.

[MGKrebs]

10. I was in a roon of about 250 people, most of whom paid $75 to be there

just to see her, a few weeks ago. (And there was a high-dollar fundraiser later that evening too.) Does that count? And those fundraisers have been going on all over the country for months.

Type in your zip code and "Clinton" and "2008" into the appropriate fields here and you can see if there are any of the theoretical supporters in your neighborhood:

http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/index.asp

My zip code shows 4 donations for $7900.

[wyldwolf]

14. hey, great. In the heart of freeper country, there's 6 Hillary donations from my Zip

[lojasmo]

18. No kidding? Donations to Hillary in a CONSERVATIVE district?

Perhaps it's her votes enabling bush in Iraq, and for the Patriot act have bolstered her support among conservatives.

I've never met a Clinton supporter in real life.

[Atman]

20. Exactly...and check my post below...

Democratic town, fairly well-to-do, FOUR Obama donations...not ONE for Hillary. In fact, not one donation for Hillary from the entire state, which I admit even I find very surprising.

And very telling.

Come on Hillary moles...you can do better!

.

[MGKrebs]

24. My search for Connecticut shows 583 donations to Clinton

for a total of $994,860 in the 2008 cycle.

[Atman]

26. What did you do differently?

Honestly, that seems to make more sense. I searched for "Connecticut," "Hillary Clinton" and 2008 Election. What criteria did you use? Or didn't you narrow it down to the 2008 election?

.

[MGKrebs]

29. The only difference I see is I used "Clinton", not "Hillary Clinton.

[wyldwolf]

22. yeah! And Obama has them, too. Perhaps it's his cozying up to Reagan... and ...

..his embrace of welfare reform.

[Atman]

16. In my zip code, in a well-to-do DEMOCRATIC town in CT...NOT ONE HILLARY SUPPORTER.

Four Barack Obama donations. Even a few for Dodd. Not one single Hillary donation. See for yourself...

06109

Try the entire STATE of Connecticut...NOT ONE HILLARY DONATION.

Unless I somehow did something wrong, although it seemed to work properly in showing every other name except Clinton's.

.

[ronnykmarshall]

44. Results for my zip code

Results: 305 records found in 1.8906 seconds.


Total for this search: $321,380
Search Criteria:
Recipient: Clinton
Zip: 90069
Cycle(s) selected: All


That's a cool link, thanks!



114 records found in 0.2344 seconds.


Total for this search: $165,315
Search Criteria:
Recipient: Clinton
Zip: 90069
Cycle(s) selected: 2008


On Edit - I updated with the 2008 cycle

[Lydia Leftcoast]

56. In my ZIP code, which went 70% for Kerry in 2004, there are

5 donations to Hillary. 6 for Obama, 3 for Edwards, none for anyone else.

The donations were all large, which suggests that the average voter isn't even paying attention yet.

But let me join the group of people who don't know any Hillary supporters, and I know dozens of people who went out and campaigned for Kerry in 2004. In fact, a lot of these people who walked their feet off going door to door are now saying, "Don't look to the Democrats to make any real changes."

[MGKrebs]

65. I am sure there are dozens of people there who will campaign for

the nominee in 2008 also.

edit: previously shown data was for expenditures. Looking for the correct info now.

[MGKrebs]

72. OK, I hope this is accurate.

This is the data that looks closest to something we can match to. It's a pdf spreadsheet from the FEC.
Link found here:
http://www.fec.gov/press/bkgnd/pres_cf/pres_cf.shtml
Actual data:
http://www.fec.gov/press/bkgnd/pres_cf/atm0630/state_cont_pres_cand.pdf

It appears to show that Kerry had received $113,940 in all of Minnesota as of June 30, 2003. The document doesn't have the date, but it is listed under "Activity Through June 30" and they are the right candidates.

By comparison, it looks like Clinton has received $361,505 to date from Minnesota.

[ElizabethDC]

77. 15 contributions from my zip

and I think Open Secrets doesn't show donations under $200 or something like that, because I know several people who donated (including myself) whose names don't show up.

[MGKrebs]

79. It's true that only donations of $200 or more must be reported.

I think many people donate like $199 (maybe more than once) just to stay off of these lists.

[ElizabethDC]

81. Yeah, and I know a lot of people (including me!) who donate in small increments

$100 here, $50 there. Not because I want to stay off the lists, just because it's less painful than parting with a huge chunk of money at once!

[ellenfl]

15. my fear all along is that the pro-hillary hype

is coming from the rw and that we are being set up . . . again. i WILL vote for her if she is our candidate but i will not be overjoyed. i do not consider her as progressive as the rw spin machine does. any more than i consider bill progressive. they are both part of the 'machine'.

ellen fl

[Atman]

17. I think that's a safer bet. They WANT her desperately. How quick we forget.

Can't anyone remember the constant drumbeats for a 2008 Hillary candidacy even before the 2006 election? These people are creaming over a Hillary candidacy because they know she is either a) unelectable or b) closest to being one of them.

.

[truedelphi]

58. Exactly n/t

[Danieljay]

21. Bingo. They are betting she can't and won't win in a general election. They may be right.

[Danieljay]

19. I think I've met ONE. Like me, none of my other Dem friends trust her.

(no, I don't hate her)

[BigDDem]

25. Yes! That's it...

It's all the "GOP controlled media."
See, in real life Dennis K is ahead by double digits, not Hillary.

Ok, feel better?

[Atman]

27. That's stupid.

Nice attempt at deliberately twisting what I said to make YOU feel better.

.

[Alamom]

28. Here you go. Hundreds on record who support and will vote for Hillary. They are also

campaigning ......

Here's 5 threads of supporters and endorsements for Hillary. These people will be voting for her and more important, working to get others to vote for her. They include;

Educators, Former & Current Elected leaders from most states, including senators, representatives governors and mayors, Community leaders, Native Amercians, Veterans of World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq
Union workers ,Hispanics, African Americans, LGBT Americans, Human Rights workers & activists.....The very famous to to the never heard of, but their vote counts just like yours.

Don't have time to look, that's ok.....these lists include hundreds of people who are working & campaigning for Hillary.

Sorry to bust that "I don't know anyone who is voting for Hillary bubble."

Like I said, here are hundreds on record.....and gosh, who knows, there could be thousands, millions not on record.......... :)



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=334x234


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=334x222


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=334x216

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=334x210


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=334x197



editsp

[beastieboy]

31. DU is warped, its the only place where people say Hillary supporters are "mythical"

Unbelievable.

[Captain Hilts]

32. I'm a Clarkie, but I get a kick out of the Hillary denyers here.

Eight years of polling makes me laugh at anyone who says "I don't know anyone who...."

It's kind of like the folks that call into C-Span and say "I used to be a Democrat, but now...."

[Atman]

33. Yeah. Every one of them.

Did I say that? I said "the mythical Hillary supporter." If that implies to you that there are NONE, you are a very poor reader. With a very low post count. I'm sick and tired of numb-nuts, Democrat OR Republican, who adopt the age-old tactic of yanking one word out of a sentence, wrapping it in a thick coating of snark and self-importance, and then serving it up with a big side of "THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID!" If you have to take everything as 100% literal, maybe you should be a fundie instead of a Democrat.

.

[beastieboy]

34. I meet plenty of them. They are excited and they are passionate.

Deny it all you want, but there are many people who appreciate that she is a smart, compassionate, strong woman who would do an outstanding job leading this country. I talk to people about it all the time, but I don't use anecdotal information to post nonsense.

[Atman]

36. "I don't use anecdotal information to post nonsense."

Hmmmm. Seems you just did.

.

[Tellurian]

38. I agree..

welcome to DU, beastieboy!

It's the old RW theme..."If you repeat the Lie enough times, it becomes the (new) Truth!"

Unfortunately, the Rw'ers have proven it works..

Thanks Alamom, for posting the links.

[Atman]

39. "If you repeat the Lie enough times, it becomes the (new) Truth!"

Isn't it funny how you apply that to my observation about the people I've met, as well as to the similar observations of others, yet you fail to apply that standard to the PRESS. I mean, who do you think has lied to you more, ME, or the media? Yet, I'm now "the big liar" repeating that which cannot even be called a lie, while fully accepting the word of the media which has repeatedly advanced the proven lies of the administration.

Funny how that works.

Oh, wait...you're a Hillary Clinton supporter. Nothing funny about it at all, then. It's just selective outrage.

.

[Tellurian]

74. "Isn't it funny how you apply that to my observation"...

I think taking the "fun" out of the word funny is strange; especially when my comment wasn't directed at you at all. The statement was a general statement addressed to beastieboy (as a new poster) who apparently holds no ill will towards Sen Clinton.

[Atman]

76. Okay, my bad.

I missed the direct at low-post-count Beastieboy. Sorry for flaming you for it...lots of slings and arrows directed my way today. Curiously, all from posters I've never heard of before.

Things that make you go "Hmmmmmm."

Peace.

.

[beastieboy]

40. I'm confused by the hatred of Hillary.

What gets me is that I bet you most of the people who are bashing Hillary for the Iraq resolution supported Kerry without hesitation. Why did he get a pass?

[Atman]

41. Who said anything about HATRED OF HILLARY?

Focus on what is being written, not what you want the words to mean. I have not once said that I hated Hillary, nor have I even indicated that any of my acquaintances hate Hillary Clinton. Although I've met several people who do, they've all been Republicans (none of the rafting group...subject never came up). Republicans tend to hate her with a passion, which is exactly why many (not all, not necessarily even most) Democrats are fearful of her candidacy; because she is likely to be BIG draw for the Republican party, and she has alienated enough of her own party to detract from our strengths.

Once you're able to get past the unnecessary labels, maybe you'll begin to understand. This has nothing to do with "hating Hillary" and everything to do with finding the strongest possible candidate to kick BushCo's ass. Many simply feel that isn't Hillary. Doesn't mean they hate her.

.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

37. i've met my fair share

then again I live in New York. I've been able to get a couple to listen to what Obama has to say, but haven't made too many converts. They're out there.

[ronnykmarshall]

46. Hmmm? Let me see .

My mom and step dad. My Aunt Pat. My friends TJ, Anita (and her two daughters), Diane & her girlfriend, Tina, Deanne, Cindy ..... My husband.


With the exception of myself, none of them post here. And they are pretty much spread out around California or the country.


But I guess we're all just a myth? :shrug:

[Atman]

49. Again, I said "the mythical Hillary Supporter." Does not mean ALL.

Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing.

Congrats, you know some. Obviously, you'd have to be an idiot to think there are NO Hillary supporters. Of course, I simply never said that.

.

[ronnykmarshall]

50. How nnniiiiiiiiccccce!

[Atman]

53. I'm not sure what you're "How nnniiiccceee"-ing about

It appears you think I'm calling you an idiot. It must be that reading comprehension problem again. If you actually read my words and make even a half-hearted attempt to understand them, you'll see they completely exclude you from this group of so-called idiots, because you believ there ARE Hillary Clinton supporters, as do I.

"...you'd have to be an idiot to think there are NO Hillary supporters."

Do YOU think there are NO Hillary supporters?

:shrug:

.

[ronnykmarshall]

55. How double nnniiiiicccce!

[Atman]

60. Yeah. Nice.

:eyes:

.

[Alexander]

75. You can always count on ronnykmarshall to complain about non-existant insults.

[wyldwolf]

54. dictionary definition of "mythical."

without foundation in fact; imaginary; fictitious:

[Atman]

57. And who here is denying that?

Certainly not me. You're just having a little trouble with reading comprehension. Let's try to clear this up for you...

First of all, you're wrongly placing the focus of the sentence on "mythical," which was not the writer's intention. It matter's not what you think I meant, because I've explained unequivocally what the meaning is. Yet, despite me clarifying it for you, you jump back to "mythical" and then make the absurd leap to claiming that I stated that there are NO Hillary Clinton supporters, that they're ALL myths.

Here's another way to look at it; let's say you're watching a Jacques Cousteau special and he narrates "Today we're going to hunt the elusive napkin fish..." Do you actually think that means he's going to hunt EVERY napkin fish in the ocean? No, he said THE elusive napkin fish. Napkin fish is the subject, not "elusive." Same with my post. "Hillary Clinton supporters" is the subject. It may sound to you that my words mean EVERY Hillary Clinton supporter is mythical, but that's simply not what I meant at all, and a good reader would know that. You can't force it to mean what you want, because I am the writer of the post and I am telling you what my words were intended to mean. I've done so repeatedly. Therefore, that is what they mean.

Now, you can post the entire freakin' dictionary if you want, it changes nothing; I've issued a clarification, if you want to call it that, several times yet you just don't want to hear it. It doesn't suit your own agenda, I get that. So why do you insist on applying YOUR meaning to MY words, which I've since explained to you?

.

[wyldwolf]

64. you are

You used the term "mythical" to describe Clinton supporters. Mythical means "ficticious."

[Atman]

66. Yes, it does. Again, who is denying that mythical means fictitious?

LAY OF THE EIGHT-BALLS! I can tell from your exchange with Alexander, your whole point is stir up trouble and ignore anything said to you, and instead post your so-called witty rejoinders. Now look up "witty." You're not, yet I used it in the post. So, is my entire post about you being witty?

I'm sure you don't understand. You don't want to.

Buh-bye...do a few lines for me...that's sooooooo eighties, man!

:eyes:

.

[wyldwolf]

68. by using "mythical" to describe Hillary supporters, your claim is they don't exist.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

82. you're spinning and trying to redefine "mythical."

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Buck Rabbit]

47. My niece, a medical student.

This very conversation came up at a family gathering last weekend. Started by my brother-in-law who shivered when he saw Hilary on a brief news clip on TV. He asked, "Does anybody here actually like her?"

My niece strongly supports her. While my niece is more liberal than Hilary the candidate, she feels a women has to be tougher than the boys, and viewed as more moderate or conservative to be elected Commander In Chief. She feels that in office Hilary will be strong, reasoned, smart and practical.

My brother-in-law dislikes her, his sons who vote democrat but follow sports more than politics will vote for any Dem. My Sister-in-law an RN, won't discuss politics at family gatherings but she always works on the campaign of at least one local female Dem candidate each election.

Personally, Hilary is towards the bottom of the pack for me, but is actually higher for me than Edwards, whose '08 positions are great but I have no belief in his conviction to them and I believe he is the least electable in the General when the gloves come off.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

62. Yes, I know Hillary supporters nt

[hatrack]

2. Gee, Rich, you sure took ME by surprise with this excrescence.

Oh, and by the way, fuck you.

[Cha]

23. Yeah, ol' rich lowery

needs a big "Fuck You" from the both of us!

[Bitwit1234]

12. Well good for him he sure read all the republican &&&&& democratic

swiftboating crap. Too bad a so called intelligent person takes it at face value.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bvar22]

48. More support for Hillary from the Right Wing Conservatives.

<in best creepy/Hypno voice> Hillary is inevitable.
You must not resist.

The Conservatives really want Hillary for the Dem nominee.
WIN/WIN for them no matter who wins the General.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

59. When the Republicans speak of a Hillary Clinton candidacy, they act as if

they're B'rer Rabbit saying "Please don't throw me into that briar patch! Whatever you do, please don't throw me into that briar patch!"

But like B'rer Rabbit, they're secretly thinking, "Yyyyesss!"

[DemBones DemBones]

84. Exactly, which is why Democrats should think

very seriously about whether Hillary Clinton is the candidate we want as the nominee.


For the record, I don't know anyone who supports her, either.

[Catherine Vincent]

51. To Rich Lowery: Nobody cares who you support!

Just vote for a rethuglican and shut up!

[Beausoir]

52. You got it.

Like anyone gives a damn about his vote.

[AtomicKitten]

61. Rich Lowery?

ugh

[Supersedeas]

70. She excels at other test -- so what does the current Prezeldent excel at?

Anyone wanna have a beer with him now?

[Enthusiast]

73. I wonder who it is..........

I wonder who it is that the Republicans hate the most. They seem to have extreme distaste for Edwards, Clinton and Obama. I suspect we'll see a swiftboat effort in the general election like never before. The insurance industry feels threatened, as does the pharmaceutical industry. Of course we can count on the NRA and munitions manufacturers to obfuscate, as usual. The candidate that wins the Democratic nomination must come up with a swiftboat attack of their own, one that has nothing to do with truth necessarily, but is effective at generating hatred toward the Republican nominee. I'm being perfectly serious. We must abandon our priciples and win the damn thing.

[Forkboy]

78. They're going to do what they always do...

lie,smear,and cheat.

They're going to nail anyone we run,and nail them hard.I do,however,think that it wont help them.Honestly,I think any of our candidates can beat any of theirs.Some will be closer than others however.I think people like Gravel and Hillary both make it a far closer race than it needs to be (for different reasons).Kucinich,as much as I like him,will struggle in areas even though he's right.

I think Edwards and Obama can both win rather easily,but even Biden,Dodd,and Richardson would beat the Repub running.People country-wide are getting pretty sick of the repubs. :)

[Enthusiast]

80. Good words, Forkboy! nt