Anyone see this? Cindy Sheehan a right winger?

[babsbunny]

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2007/07/cindy-sheehan-is-right-winger.html

Actual quote from Sheehan's site:

"I was a life-long Democrat only because the choices were limited. The Democrats are the party of slavery and were the party that started every war in the 20th Century except the other Bush debacle. The Federal Reserve, permanent federal (and unconstitutional) income taxes, Japanese Concentration Camps and, not one, but two atom bombs dropped on the innocent citizens of Japan were brought to us via the Democrats."

"Are" the party of slavery? Even if she had used the word "were," this is a stupid misreading of history. The parties of today are not the parties of the 19th century.

[MNDemNY]

1. She should just slink away, already.

[durutti]

9. The income tax thing is all that bothers me,

Everything else is 100 percent right.

[MNDemNY]

10. Except that she has become "the darling" of the right wing

in that for what ever reason(s) she has become a counter productive presence.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. That must be why they make death threats against her

:eyes:

[Doctor_J]

24. Um, the pro-slavery Dems from the Civil-war era now

proudly call themselves Reagan Dems. Check a map, durutti. The slavery states are now all red.

[durutti]

27. The pro-slavery Dems are all dead.

I'm sure she meant that the Democrats *were* the party of slavery.

[TwilightGardener]

2. I wasn't aware that was still on our platform. Geez, we should probably

rethink it.

[saracat]

3. And we didn't "start every war in the 20th Century" either.She is a twit!

[Jackpine Radical]

4. Right. Grenada was entirely a Republican fiasco.

[rockymountaindem]

31. Nor did we start WWII, Korea or Vietnam. n/t

[cui bono]

5. This is part of the reason why people need to think twice

before supporting her run for congress. We don't know much about here except that she's an anti-war activist. I even asked someone on here who said they would support her against Pelosi what her stance was on other issues and they could not give me one. Not a single one. Yet they were ready to back her.

Not to mention the fact that she is no diplomat, no politician. She is good at being a vocal activist and I certainly am glad she did what she did with Camp Crawford. I really do feel she was a catalyst for the anti-war movement but she does not belong in politics, imho, and I don't see how anyone can support her without knowing anything about her political views.

[knowledgeispwr]

15. I think your point can be broadened.

It's just like people who support Ron Paul because he's anti-war (despite the fact that he's a scary libertarian) or people who way back in the day had a soft-spot for John McCain (back when he was still considered a "maverick"). That's why people should be very careful in supporting a candidate for just one or two issues because once they are in office, they'll have to make decisions on a whole gambit of matters.

[cui bono]

21. Exactly. That surprised me too. I would think people on this board

researched and examined things such as what positions people they claim to back have on all issues that will affect our daily lives.

[Chulanowa]

6. How old is this?

Because I could swear we already had a five-day DU smear campaign against Cindy over her awful grasp of history.

Is there no new material?

[miceelf]

12. her own words

Which she has NOT backed away from. hardly a smear.

[Chulanowa]

14. Oh, I know

I even barked up the tree - I hate bad history.

However there's a difference between calling her out on her screw-up, which I fully support, and foing knuckle-dragging freeper on her ass as happened on the other threads/

Here's hoping this thread evades such

[LittleClarkie]

20. But you are right, this was covered about a week or two ago

It's from Kos.

July 9th to be exact. I just checked. Our friend here is behind the times.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/7/9/92356/44191

Funny but she's not deleted herself from Kos yet as she said she would. I suppose it was a "Goodbye Cruel World" post as the Kossacks call them, and she's left room for the occasional "I'm back but I'll be leaving again" posts. I hate dramatic exits, esp. when the person who posts them doesn't actually exit.

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2007/7/15/13325/4360/121#c121

I also found the "If you don't agree you must not understand" position equally annoying.

[miceelf]

22. Yeah

it's very condescending. And, given her problems understanding history, she's not in a position to be condescending.

[Chulanowa]

43. So what I want to know...

Is why the need to cover it once again?

What, her protesting John Conyers didn't give enough poo to toss back at her?

[LittleClarkie]

7. It's a lame excuse to say you were a lifelong Dem because there was nothing else

if we are as heinous as she portrays us to be, then why didn't she just opt out of the process altogether rather than be attached to this party of evil.

In answer to your question, I think she's hanging with a Libertarian. I think that's what someone said on here.

[LostInAnomie]

16. She's a life long Dem that voted for Bush in 2000.

Says the Democratic Party is the "Party of Slavery", started all the wars of the 20th century, and pushed an unconstitutional income tax and federal reserve on the people. :eyes:

Sounds like a real "Democrat" to me.

I just wish Mrs. Paul the would go away so the anti-war movement can't be painted as a gang of clowns.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. Got a link to support that statement that she voted for bush?

[LittleClarkie]

19. That first part was a myth. She was relating someone else's story

and people thought it was hers.

Meanwhile, I kinda like Ron Paul.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. Once again I am asking for a link to support your claim that Cindy voted for bush

This is the umpteenth time I have seen this bullshit posted and I want PROOF.

Or you can just ignore this and see what that does to your credibility.

[TSIAS]

42. I also would like an answer

And don't try to say that "voting for Nader is the same as voting for Bush". AFAIK, there's no indication that she voted for Bush. And her criticisms are far from right-wing criticisms. Her only fault is that she's to the left of most in the Dem Party.

[ieoeja]

45. Abolishing the Federal Reserve and Income Tax is Left? n/t

[jobycom]

8. Doesn't make her a right winger, but it forcefully drives away some of her followers.

The Democratic Party has committed atrocities, same as the Republican. It's not a right wing message, it's just fact. I don't particularly like partisan allegiances. I believe in a core set of values, and will support the party that is most likely to help me achieve those values. Right now that means I vote Democrat. It doesn't mean I will always vote Democrat. Party labels are not uniforms I cheer for.

I can't really quibble with her characterization, and I think it's good for all of us to remember it, just as it is important for all of us to remember how many atrocities our own nation has committed. Helps us to avoid making the same mistakes in the future, and to recognize the mistakes both parties make. That's how many of us knew to oppose the Iraq invasion from the beginning--we've seen it before, from both parties.

On the other hand, everything good that's been done politically in my lifetime has been done by the Democrats. Civil Rights. Equal Rights. War on Poverty. Support for Choice. So while i can't forget that the Dems have done horrible things, I also can't overlook that they are the only ones who have achieved great advances in the American experiment.

The latter is what I'm afraid I disagree with Cindy on. She's focused on the problem, and she's right about the problem. But she doesn't have a grip on the solution at the moment. She's fighting the only party that might help her get there because they aren't getting her there as fast as she wants. I understand her frustration, completely. But she's letting that frustration undermine what she's fighting for.

I went a progressive event called Rolling Thunder in Austin, back around 02, I think. Doris Haddock (Granny D) gave one of the most beautiful speeches I've ever heard. She talked about fighting for campaign finance reform, and how unproductive it was, and how both parties seemed unconcerned about it. But she kept fighting, preparing the legislation, making her points known, and increasing her network of allies, until finally, after the 2000 election, the mood in Congress changed, and they passed the bills she had been working on. She said--and I wish I could capture exactly how well she said it, because it was a magical speech--that you had to keep working and preparing, no matter how impossible it seemed, so that when the situation changed, you would be ready to take advantage of it.

The situation will change. The Democrats will get the upper hand. They are close now, very close, to cracking BushCo apart, and not in a political dogfight, but by using the Constitution, and the law, and the power of the people, hence of the government. When that happens, when Bush runs out of excuses and dodges, when they have him cornered by the law because they took the time to build the case, instead of rushing to make symbolic gestures for popularity's sake. When that happens, the Democrats are the ones who will end the war, and the Democrats are the ones that will prosecute BushCo, and if we do it right, the Democrats will be the ones who impeach Bush and Cheney.

I wish Cindy would hang around for that.

[MODemocrat]

11. I'ts hard to believe she was EVER a Democrat in the first place

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd guess that she voted for George W. Bush. She seems to have her priorities
confused. She wouldn't get my vote now, if she were running for dogcatcher in my State. She really
disappointed me, to say the least.:+ :+ :puffpiece: Speaker Sheehan? hmmmm..

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

13. Sorry, but...

I have no patience for anyone who makes statements like that. None whatsoever.

And yes, it does sound like there is a Libertarian in the woodpile. What next, a statement of support for Ron Paul?

[LWolf]

25. I don't see anything "right wing" here.

I see her holding her nose and choosing the least objectionable party, the Democratic Party, over the republican party.

A position that many in the left wing of the Democratic Party have been in.

You may not like her criticisms of the party, but it doesn't make her "right wing."

[miceelf]

26. I'm sorry

But the claim that the income tax is unconstitutional is the very definition of rightwing thought.

[LWolf]

28. Context, please.

The context of her statements is to look at the history of the party realistically, and realize that the Democratic Party is not God, is not the "savior" party.

Cindy Sheehan is no more "right wing" than I am. You can hate her, if hate is your "thing," but that won't make her right-wing, and it won't automatically make her wrong.

[miceelf]

29. Please, do

Show me the context where it makes sense to claim that the income tax is unconstitutional.

I'll be very interested.

I'm not saying that one can't criticize the Democratic party. I am saying that the particular criticisms she chose to use are the very same ones used by the far right with their Federal Reserve conspiracy theories and their pining for the halcyon days of 1903, when rich people could have servants.

[LWolf]

33. Good dodge.

You are still focused on one fraction as an entry point for argument.

Put it in context with her remarks as historical perspective. You don't have to agree with her opinion about it. It's either correct from a historical standpoint, or not.

To be honest, I've heard more discussion about income tax from libertarians than from republicans. They come in "right wing," too, of course. Still, including the federal reserve or income tax in her comments hardly makes Cindy Sheehan "right wing."

I understand that hard-core party purists aren't going to like her criticisms of the party. That criticism may even, in some cases, cause an emotional uprising of HATE to spring forth. Personally, I think that's foolish and short-sighted, but that's just me. I also think that hate is simply unconscionable, but that's also my perspective. Hate and rage welling up from the emotional center of a person may result in flinging inaccurate labels at the hated. I prefer honesty.

From my perspective, I'd say, disagree all you like, but if you're going to indulge in a round of name-calling, at least make sure the name is accurate.

[miceelf]

36. You're not answering the question- who's dodging?

You claimed I took it out of context. What exactly is the context that makes opposition to the income tax not right wing?

As I said, there are a lot of valid criticisms of the Dems one could make. She just happens to be parroting the set that are right wing talking points.

The anti-income tax movement is comprised of libertarians who wish to return to the era when business men literally ruled. THAT'S what they're about.

you're technically correct. I don't know if she's right wing.

She's just using right wing talking points.

Whether it's intentional or out of historical ignorance, I don't know.

[LWolf]

40. "technically correct." Fine, I'll take that. n/t

[miceelf]

32. PS

You're right, of course.

If people want to be "saved" from income tax and from the federal reserve, they'll need to find a different party.

Similarly, if they want to be "saved" from the fact that slavery went on the US, again, the Dems can't do anything about that.

Cowards!

[LanternWaste]

64. I think it would be more valid to say that it's the very definition of libertarianism....

I think it would be more valid to say that it's the very definition of libertarianism.... they're the weirdo's who justify it's appeal with the unconstitutional argument, the Republics, though they hate it, argue it's demise through other arena's of thought.

[SoxFan]

30. It's thoroughly right wing

Her "Democrat Wars" meme is the very same attack line that Bob Dole used against Walter Mondale in the 1976 vice presidential debate.

And the canard about the "illegal" income tax is a favorite of far-right fringe dwellers, like Ed and Elaine Brown, the two NH loons who are holed up in their little fortress evading improsonment on tax fraud charges.

[LWolf]

34. I disagree, and have commented further above. n/t

[miceelf]

37. "commented"

You've simply asserted that we're taking her out of context, that she isn't right wing, without providing any evidence whatsoever.

In what sense is opposition to income tax NOT right wing? Can you answer the question?

[LWolf]

41. I don't need to. The question is irrelevant.

The point I'm making is that you are taking Cindy Sheehan out of context, and that you cannot support, looking at the complete person and what she stands for, an accusation that SHE is a "right winger." The OP does not say that opposition to income tax is, or isn't "right-wing." It clearly states:

"Anyone see this? Cindy Sheehan a right winger?"

If you want to discuss income tax, and you start a thread on it, I'll be happy to discuss it with you. The question "What is or isn't right wing about opposition to income tax" takes what I am saying out of context. This thread is about calling Cindy Sheehan a "right-winger." I'm saying that her life and her work does not support that nasty smear.

Evidence: until the DLC, anyway, "right-wingers" have generally not been "life-long Democrats," whether they were enthusiastic or not about it.

"Right-wingers" generally don't oppose war, either.

CINDY SHEEHAN IS NOT A "RIGHT-WINGER," AND I FIND ATTEMPTS TO SPIN HER THAT WAY TO BE DISHONEST AND DESPICABLE.

[miceelf]

44. dishonest

is repeatedly accusing people of taking her words out of context without providing any support for that assertion.

And, yes, actually, rightwingers have historically opposed war, very frequently, including the "libertarians" in this country who wanted FDR to stay out of WWII. Pat Buchanan opposes the war in Iraq, does that prove he's not right wing?

But it's okay. I undertsand that you have a religious belief in Cindy Sheehan, who can do no wrong. Good luck with that.

[LWolf]

49. Your post is absolutely dishonest, I agree.

You can spend the rest of your life trying to find somewhere I've espoused a "religous belief" in Cindy Sheehan OR ANY OTHER HUMAN BEING THAT HAS EVER LIVED. You won't find it, because I never have.

You can spend the rest of your life trying to find somewhere I've ever suggested that Cindy Sheehan, OR ANY OTHER HUMAN BEING, can do no wrong. You won't find it, because I never have.

I have repeatedly offered evidence for the point I'm making. IT IS DISHONEST TO TRY TO SPIN MY POINT INTO SOMETHING OTHER THAN IT IS FOR YOUR OWN PURPOSES.

Fuck that shit, to put it mildly.

You are not worth responding to.

[miceelf]

50. Look who's talking

the person who insists that Cindy Sheehan is being "taken out of context"

[ieoeja]

46. Then let's try it from another angle: what is LEFT wing about her?

Like most people due to her use of Democratic stereotypes popular among Republicans, I believe she is lying about having been a Democrat. All that leaves is her anti-war stance, but the Right has more anti-war history than the Left, and there are many on the Right who are still isolationists (Buchanan, all Libertarians, etc).

[miceelf]

47. You're right

But I don't think there's an angle you can take that will convince her disciples.

She could produce a paper she claims is a list of communist sympathizers and wave it around, and people would accuse us of "taking her out of context" if we compared her to McCarthy.

[LWolf]

48. You tell me.

Since you are now deciding she is "left wing."

Are you courageous enough to simply disagree with her, or to say you are angry with her because you don't like the targets of her activities, without having to categorize and label her?

[ieoeja]

60. Fine. So she's neither leftwing, nor rightwing.

Am I courageous enough to simply disagree with her? How does that take courage? So I guess the answer is, sure, I disagree with her. The Democratic Party is not the party of slavery. We did not start every war of the past century (minus one). The federal Income Tax is not unconstitutional. And the Federal Reserve helps the gov't control the economy as opposed to everything just being run by a bunch of wealthy bankers as they see fit.

I disagree with her on every statement listed in the OP.

Your turn. Are you courageous enough to simply agree with her on all of any of these statements?

[LWolf]

62. I agree with her activism in regards to ending war and impeachment.

I understand and empathize with her frustration with the Democratic Party.

While the term "the party of slavery" is distasteful, in a historical context it is not incorrect. It is also true that many of the wars, if not all, in our history were started under democratic administrations.

I reserve comment on the income tax situation; whether or not income taxes are a good thing is a matter of opinion, and I tend to be ambivalent on that one.

It takes courage to step forward and say, "I disagree because," without trying to attack the person you disagree with. Without trying to "win." It takes courage to be comfortable enough with your pov that you don't need to "defeat" those who see it differently.

I respect your right to your opinion about Sheehan, and your right to express it.

[Cameron27]

35. She sounded like she lifted Dole's exact words in that

exchange with Mondale.

[miceelf]

38. How dare you?

Bob Dole isn't right wing.

Bob Dole will kick your butt.

/Bob Dole voice off.

[SoxFan]

58. Strangely enough...

Bob Dole's nomination for VP was considered a bow to the hard right back in 1976. The Reaganites weren't going to stand for Rockefeller, nor would they go for another eastern moderate such as Poppy Bush or Richard Schweiker.

[miceelf]

59. You're right

I was being facetious

[El Fuego]

52. Those are the canned RW talking points verbatim.

My rightwing pal says those same things over and over.

[miceelf]

55. That's not fair

You're probably taking your right wing pal "out of context"

And how do you know that he(or she) is right wing? Just because s/he spouts right wing rhetoric?
Why there are hundreds of other explanations. He might have Tourette's syndrome. He might be a performance artist. He might be the victim of Manchurian candidate-style mind control.

Unless you have absolute existential certainty that he's spouting right-wing talking points because he's rightwing, you're just being unfair.

[El Fuego]

56. How do I know he's right wing???? Because he says so. All the time.

He calls me a liberal with a sneer to insult me, like it's the new N-word. Rush Limpball is his hero. He still says GWB is the greatest president ever. He walks into the office repeating verbatim what he just heard on Fox or from someother RW water carrier. He aspires to be a RW talking head on TV so the whole world will hear his profound RW bullshit.

I've spent countless hours in futile liberal/consersative ying/yang debate with him. So I know with "absolute existential certainty" that he is a right-winger. You're saying I'm being unfair, but he is proud to be a right winger! (You know, it's like THEY think "liberal" is an real insult...)

I love my pet freep, even if he is an idiot. :)

[miceelf]

57. Sorry

I was being sarcastic. I believe you, I really do. :-)

Other folk here argue that when Cindy Sheehan spouts right wing talking points, it's wrong to extrapolate her political beliefs from that, or that we're somehow "taking her out of context"

[El Fuego]

61. Yes, I see your point about that.

Whatever she says, you know she means well. She's certainly not a "water carrier."

[Yukari Yakumo]

39. See my sig for the source.

I like this article. A must read for anyone, especially Cindybots. I find it hard to believe that anyone would support her could be called sane or intelligent.

[AX10]

51. She needs to go away.

She could be a right winger trying to make the Democrats look bad.

[El Fuego]

53. It's such delicious irony that the RW slimes her as the wacky left, and she's one of them!

:rofl:

[eggman67]

54. I've said it before

and I'll say it again I believe this is a result of hanging out with the likes of that nutball Rockwell & the ANSWER loons. These are the ones that love to shovel the "there's no difference between the two parties" bullshit. Much of what she says just regurgitates their crap and marginalizes her right along with them.

Does she have some history of activism prior to Casey's death? Of being particularly political? If not then it may be safe to say that she has gathered most if not all of her political information and theories from those she has surrounded herself with since then. It would certainly explain a lot.

Like the saying goes "You lay down with the dogs, you wake up with the fleas."

[Yukari Yakumo]

63. None known. Not at all. And highly likely. {nt}

[LanternWaste]

65. Now she's a right-winger?

Now she's a right-winger?

How quickly we devour those who deviate from the path True Faith.

Look, I respect her as a person, and find most of the hullabaloo on both side of the argument re: her silly at best and disingenuous at worst, but now we're at the point where she's a right-winger? Next week she'll be Franco, the week after that Mussolini and after that the anti-Christ.

Sometimes DU can take many, many steps forward, but when we get to the point where we begin using canned lines worthy of FR, we begin to lose so much more than we gain...

Oh, brother... :eyes:

[Name removed]

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