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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 02:33 PM
Original message
Ron Paul & His Aryan Nation Support
I can't really find a lot about this around the 'Net, but there is some.

It seems that in the Internet World of the Aryan Nation and White Power America there are reoccurring themes and sites they link to.

You'll find links to "Free Speech Live" a liberitarin talk show. You'll also find links to Alex Jones sites and his radio show, which is produced by the same network which produces FSL.

What's the freakin' link and support that the Aryan Nation has for Liberitarians????

I know I've seen banner ads on some of their sites for the Ron Paul 2008 campaign.

While people are listening and watching the debates, there are some Democrats, Liberals, and Progressives, who are actually entertaining the idea that Ron Paul is a good guy.

What?!

Some renewed discussion needs to take place on just how messed up most Libertarians are. Just when you think you agree w/ them they pull some kind of freak show belief out of their ass.

While Ron Paul might be all about the Constitution, about rights, and against the war; we can't come to the conclusion that he relates to liberals or progressives.

Through a little browsing of the Aryan sites, I've found that most of them are against the war, but they're against it because they see radical Islam as an Ally because they both equally hate Jews.

Yeah ... that's right folks. They support Al Queda and I've seen Aryan sites that come right out and say it. They think they can Ally w/ radical Islam, become their friends, and fight Israel.

Sounds insane? ... it is!

Now think about how Ron Paul is against the war and how he is getting support from the Aryan Nation.

Is the support the Aryan Nation gives to Liberitarian related web sites and radio shows just by chance?

I know I saw some kind of post on a site called the Vanguard News Network that praised Ron Paul for standing up to a Jew. It's crazy.

This guy and the entire freak show Liberatarian movement needs to be talked about and identified.

I find myself in agreement w/ about 75% of what Penn and Teller profess on their Showtime program "Bullshit!", but the 25% I disagree w/ is pretty signicant and I think they border on nutjobs in some cases.

Ron Paul shouldn't even be in Congress and not even one Democrat, Liberal, or Progressive should think even for a second about voting for this guy.

If you have links to Aryan Nation sites that are displaying Ron Paul 2008 banner ads, post them here. People need to know the ilk that are supporting this guy.

Thoughts?
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Ecumenist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wow...Just wow. I've never felt any interest in Paul and this..
just serves to make me less than interested.....EVER.
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Tucker Carlson voted for him when RP ran for president as a Libertarian
He's mentioned this several times on his tv program.

Nothing to do with your original posting but I thought to mention it.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. A great example of why single issue voting is so lame.
The only reason he got any notice at all is because he actually said something about the war that pissed off the other Repubs.In every other aspect the man is nutbag,but because he said ONE thing that some people agree with they ran with it.

I hope these people have come to their senses by now and see him for the idiot he is.
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rudeboy666 Donating Member (959 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. Your paintbrush is too broad
"This guy and the entire freak show Liberatarian movement needs to be talked about and identified."

I think that you are too haste in judging a whole political movement by the supposed ties of one member (or even a group i.e. paleo-libertarians).

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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. okay
... but find me a person who is a proclaimed Liberatarian who is for public education.

They think all public schools should be privatized. They are VERY free enterprise and are pretty anti-government.

While most people have their thoughts about Democrats and Republicans, they don't know much about Libertarians.

A better background of each party and its branches would be good.

We know about Yellow Dogs, Blue Dogs, Dixiecrats, etc., but what do we know about Libertarians and the kind of people who support them?

If the Aryan Nation is a major force behind Libertarians, don't you think that should be talked about?
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SergeyDovlatov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. find me a libertarian ... who is for public education
I have a whole bunch of liberatrian friends who do have knee-jerk reaction on public education.

However, this does not seem the case with Ron Paul. For example, in "The Voucher Debate and the Failure of Federal Education", he says:

"However, the voucher debate really ignores the more important question of whether public schools should be run by federal or local government. Constitution does not authorize any federal involvement in education... Public schools should be funded at the local level with local tax dollars, where waste is minimized and accountability is greatest. "

http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/topic.php?id=13

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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. He's basically against it
If public schools were kept up w/ local money then the success of the school would be based on the success of the local government.

Wealthy areas would have the best schools and poor areas would suck.

It's hard to keep this from happening anyway, but under Paul's iniative it would be worse.

Don't think for a second that he wants taxpayers dollars to go to public schools. He's against, as most people are who support the voucher program, which is a transition program to privatize public schools.

The Constitution doesn't guarantee highways or roads, but it's in our best interest for our tax payers dollars to pay for roads, as we all benefit from them. We all benefit from an educated public in the same way. The Constitution doesn't have to guarantee it.

Being against the use of federal dollars for education is a corner stone for Liberitarians.
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SergeyDovlatov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. not exactly true
Edited on Mon Jun-11-07 03:54 PM by SergeyDovlatov
In the link I mentioned in the previous post he proposes giving teachers $1000 tax credit.
Though I agree that local funding is not enough, we need some state level funding to equalize poor and rich neighborhoods.

"Education Freedom Legislation Will Provide Meaningful Reform"
http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=185

That is quite a lot of federal dollars sent back to teachers and parents. This looks to me like federal money sent back to states without strings of federal control attached. What do you think?


--- quoting the article ---
The second measure is the "Education Improvement Tax Cut," legislation allowing individuals to claim up to $3,000 per year in tax credits for cash or "in-kind" donations to schools and scholarship programs. The goal is to encourage people to set up scholarship funds for disadvantaged youth, and also become more involved with their local schools.

Finally, I will introduce the "Teacher Tax Cut Act." This measure grants all teachers a $1,000 tax credit, effectively raising their salary by $1,000 annually without increasing local or federal education spending. Last year, new teachers made an average of $10,000 less than other college graduates. With teachers often ranking at the bottom tier of professional pay, the federal government must recognize that teaching our youth is an honorable and important profession. Many others in Congress agree that teachers deserve this tax credit: the "Teacher Tax Cut Act" already has received bipartisan support from Rep. Bob Etheridge (D-North Carolina), Rep. Dan Miller (R-Florida), Rep. Cynthia McKinney (D-Georgia), Rep. Richard Baker (R-Louisiana), and Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-Maryland).

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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. News to me
If he's up for improving education through government controlled by "We the People" and raising teacher's salaries, then he's a rare Liberatarian indeed.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. You're right on the money about libertarians.
And yes, using such a phrase is appropriate, since like all greed-based philosophies, it's about money.

Libertarians tend to be simplistic, selfish adolescents with generally somewhat reasonable intelligence who think they're smarter than everyone else and scoff at any responsibility they may have to the rest of the human race, completely disregarding what great benefits they reap because of individual specialization and governmental regulation. Blowhards like Penn Jillette sneer that there's never been any proof of one single person dying from secondhand smoke. Great, so anything short of causing undeniable death to a bystander is fair activity.

Lost productivity, lost income to people with breathing problems and general annoyance simply don't matter. It's a "fuck you" philosophy, and it simply wouldn't work on any big scale. Ayn Rand's utopian world is laughable, even when you disregard the complete ignoring of the weak and infirm.

Without regulation, one would have to spend virtually every waking hour making sure you weren't eating poison, destroying your car with bad fuel and having to confirm everything else while fending off the outright greed of others and the fallout from their mistaken actions; it'd be a nightmare.

Besides all that, people who sneer that we're only responsible for ourselves need to re-read the preamble to the Constitution (emphasis mine):

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, INSURE DOMESTIC TRANQUILITY, provide for the common defence, PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

That "promoting the general welfare" part can be interpreted in very broad ways, but the underlying sweep of it is to strive for some form of fairness and systems that are workable. That's the justification for public education, whether directly stated or not. Hell, there's no guarantee to keep and bear arms unless one's a member of a well-regulated militia...

Ug. Regulation bad. Get rid of the FCC and let the biggest tramsmitter win. The EPA's obviously not helping anybody. It's some kind of cruelty to have the FAA and tell people when and where they can't fly; the very idea! It's all just silly and based on a feeling of superiority and that old dark side of the American character: getting away with something; let those other suckers pay for the stuff I use.

I'm sure libertarians wish the FDA had been abolished long before I was born; had it been, Mom would have taken thalidomide and I'd never be able to type so fast...
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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. On the money
... hell yeah, that's it in a good nutshell.

Recently there was an article about how few inspections there are now under the Shrub administration.

Our food is getting worse and worse because we're leaning increasingly toward a facist state. Fascism is Corportism, one and the same.

Whether it's workers inhaling buttered popcorn vapors, bad peanut butter, or fecal spinich, we need to have representation to keep free enterprise on the up and up so they don't shrug their shoulders and let pretty much anything happen.

No controls eventually leads to anacarchy.

I never did like punk music. ;-)
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. i read stormfront at least once a week and noticed that ron is
becoming their favorite..well the ones that might actually vote. they like him because they think because he`s anti-government like they are..i doubt he really is. he`s no threat to the democratic party but he could knock a few pts off the republicans. he`s pretty much a big to-do about nothing
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SergeyDovlatov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. Lol. I can prove that he is a socialist progressive using the same technique
Edited on Mon Jun-11-07 03:07 PM by SergeyDovlatov
Point 1: Ron Paul is white supremcist.

Is Ron Paul the One? - Stormfront White Nationalist Community http://www.whitecivilrights.com / Is Ron Paul the One? by Charles Coughlin Do ... NAFTA, GATT, WTO, and CAFTA are a threat to our independence as a nation. ...
www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php/ron-paul-one-38... - 86k -

Point 2: Ron Paul is progressive, liberal

Published on Saturday, June 9, 2007 by CommonDreams.org
Sean Gonsalves: Ron Paul for President?
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/06/09/1770 /

:rofl:

seriously, read this fragment from his interview when asked about Kucinich:

RP: Were close friends, and we certainly agree (on the war)... And you know, take some of the liberal welfare spending that Dennis might support more than I. But you know, Im not hostile toward that. If I can save the money from overseas, put some of it against the deficit, end up with a net reduction in the size of the budget, at the same time stopping a war, I may well be very open to funding some of these programs. Because Im not out to gut some of these programs that have taught people to be very dependant on the government, like medical care. I mean, thats not my goal. Ive never run for office with the goal of slashing even though philosophically I dont think its the best way to deliver services and prosperity to poor people.

from http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig7/davis4.html (at the end of the interview)
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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. ROTFLMAO LOL LOL LOL
You don't get the point.

My real intention here is to identify who is supporting him and if that has anything to do w/ anything.

The Aryan Nation truly is against the war. They HATE Israel and ALL Jews.

That's what they let drive every molecule in their body.

If Ron Paul shares their sentiment it should be identified. It's doubtful he'll come out w/ a statement of such in a press conference.

Is he Anti-Israel? Does he think Jews have taken over our government?

These are serious sentiments by the Aryan Nation. They're not joking around and they support Ron Paul.

If you think it's a joke so be it. I'm here to discuss it and get thoughts. I guess life's a joke to you pal.

lol lol lol lol lol
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SergeyDovlatov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Ok.
I went to Aryan Nation website and got scared by the swastika on the front page. They didn't let me to read their forums either.
Is it by invitation only?

I agree, a person subscribing to the idea of destruction of Israel should not be let anywhere close to the public office and such research is justified. I think I misunderstood you.

I interpreted your post not as the beginning of the investigation, but as a report of your conclusion on the subject.
You raise good questions: "Is he Anti-Israel?", "Does he think Jews have taken over our government?" let's do a little bit more research on this subject and reconvene here.

I am somewhat interested in the answers to those questions. Dennis and RP are my favorite candidates at the moment... and if RP is indeed holding such an offensive views, I would love to find it out before I embarrass myself supporting him and putting his name on the same line as Dennis Kucinich.
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SergeyDovlatov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. found something: discussion on Palestinians and Israel on Joe Briggs show
Who is Joe Briggs by the way?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVGTrCZ2O1Y

jump to about 20 minutes mark. They discuss Likud Party, Carter's book and what will happen if US stop supporting Israel militarily.

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SergeyDovlatov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. found one more: discussion on AIPAC, Jews, Arabs
http://www.reason.com/blog/show/120337.html

RP: I think our whole foreign policy is not helpful to Israel. It's actually ultimately very damaging to Israel. We restrict Israel, we're more likely to come in and tell them they can't do this, they can't do that. Israel has made overtures to Syria, which is great, and yet we've told them "don't talk to Syria or we'll cut off your money." It's that kind of stuff. I think the image that the Arabs and Muslims are all controlled by Osama bin Laden is absolutely erroneous. Israel and Egypt came to terms. I think ultimately we stir the pot and it's very harmful to Israel.

Sean Higgins of Investor's Business Daily followed up to ask what Paul meant when he said AIPAC "controls the votes" and whether they're "influential to the bad or influential to the good."

RP: I think it depends on the issue. I remember one time in the early '80s they were influential because the United States and the United Nations were condemning Israel for bombing Iraq's nuclear site. I believe that was the issue, or it was an issue like that, but I was one of the very few that said Israel has every right in the world to do what is necessary for their national sovereignty. On an issue like that they were right. On an issue like Iran, I don't think it's in their interests and I don't think it's in our interests. There's a lot of Jews in Israel who agree and I'd bet you there are a lot of Jews in this country that would agree that taking on Iran right nowI can't think of anything more absurd. And the idea that we wouldn't even take off the table a nuclear first strike on Iran who is incapable of attacking us. If they want me to vote to go to war against Iran, that would be be bad. If they want me to defend Israel's position of defending their borders and doing what's in their best interest, I'd say that's good.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. The aryan nation is pretty much a joke, a sick joke, but a joke.
Their heyday was in the late 80's early 90s. They are pretty much done as a political force, even on the lunatic right.

Now back to Ron Paul. Do you have any evidence that he supports the Aryan Nation? What you have done is basically said: some bad people support Ron Paul, therefor Ron Paul supports those bad people too. That doesn't work, except as an outright smear.

If you want to attack Paul on legitimate grounds, go after his libertarian policies many of which are completely absurd. For example: no public education. That will turn most people off right there.

Libertarians are against this war, aryan nation jew hating nazis are against this war, progressives are against this war. Other than that we all do not have much in common.

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pepperbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
8. OMFG. The man wants to privatize EVERYTHING without taking...
Edited on Mon Jun-11-07 03:10 PM by pepperbear
human nature into account.
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thethinker Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. Don't Look a Gift Horse in the Mouth
I am so tired of people posting on DU that think the democrats will lose votes to Ron Paul. Democrats will not be attracted to his message.

But on the other hand, he may be the best thing that ever happened for Democrats. He may split the republican vote down the middle. Republicans will be very attracted to his message. He has been getting a lot of attention since the Republican debates. If he got half the republican vote and say, Rudy Giuliani got half of the republican vote, we would beat them in the general election no matter who we ran as a candidate.

Just because the Aryan Nation supports Ron Paul, does not mean he supports them.

He is one member of congress that votes his own mind. He votes against the Republicans as often as he votes with them. He is their worst nightmare. The RNC must be going crazy trying to figure out what to do about this guy.

Stop being afraid of him. This could get really interesting.



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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Didn't Say He Supports Them
His conclusions may have a lot in common w/ the Aryan Nation, that's enough to make him slime in my book.

It's VERY doubtful he'll come out in support of the Aryan Nation, but having the Aryan Nation in support of him should raise eyebrows.

I'm not worried about Ron Paul getting the nod from the Rethugs and Dems supporting Ron Paul over our rep.

The main concern is the general public ... the general public isn't hardcore Rethug or Democrat. This guy could generate interest in the Liberatarian movement in general. Or, he could cause a different kind of movement in the Republican and/or Democratic parties in the future.

We know how the neo-cons took over the Republican Party. Do you not think the Liberatarians could be the next movement to take the party?

The whole party has been in a shambles since Nixon. Reagan dissembled it and the two Shrubs finished up the job. The neo-con movement has been exposed and it only makes sense that the Republican Party will go through another transition. The chances that a third party will rise is beyond small.

However, elements of a third party could take over what's left of the Republican Party after this election. I could see Liberatarians doing just that. Conservatives are a huge part of the Liberatarian Party, I'm sure they would love to be next in line to put on the elephant suit and the Aryan Nation would love to take the table w/ them.
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thethinker Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. The republican party is in shambles
and we should be glad.

The majority of republicans are just conservative good old boys. They believe in all the things Reagan preached. Bush got elected and immediately put in neo-con policies. That is not the message he put forth when he running for office. My guess would be that maybe 1% of the republicans are neo-cons. The republican base feels betrayed. They have turned against Bush. They were betrayed.

I doubt Ron Paul will get the nod from the RNC. They can't control him.

The libertarians have a lot of nut cases in their membership. I don't see them as a serious threat.

The more the republican party fractures into pieces, the easier they are to beat. It is a numbers game, when they count the votes right.


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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
17. Its pretty simple. Paul thinks black people are criminals and the US is controlled by Zionists.
http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/aol-metropolitan...

"Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5 percent of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty and the end of welfare and affirmative action,"Paul wrote.

Paul continued that politically sensible blacks are outnumbered "as decent people." Citing reports that 85 percent of all black men in the District of Columbia are arrested, Paul wrote:

"Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the `criminal justice system,' I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal," Paul said.

Paul also wrote that although "we are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers."
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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. that could be ....
... the kind of talk the Aryan Nation LOVES.

Enough to call him slime in my book.
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StudentsMustUniteNow Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
21. CP-USA endorsed John Kerry
I don't see what the issue is here.

Can we attack Ron Paul on his ultraliberal capitalist "I Got Mine" economic policies instead?
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Khaotic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. sure
Attack him on anything you want.

I'm pointing out something that people have an instant reaction to.

If the reality is that the Aryan Nation is supporting him then that is a bad thing for him.

My main thing is for a more indepth discussion to take place on Liberatarians. People are putting their arms around Ron Paul as if he's the man.

I think we should know the reason he doesn't support the war and if he's anti-Israel. That's valid.
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Bullet1987 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. White Supremists tend to be Libertarians...not the other way around.
They are generally anti-government, but not Liberal. The only reason some Dems like him is because of his stance on the war...like me. Though, I would NEVER vote for him over a Democrat.
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rudeboy666 Donating Member (959 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. You are very likely wrong
You need empirical data to demonstrate that.

How many white supremacists support the Republican Party? The Democratic Party? (note that being a Democrat does not necessarily put you above racism or bigotry).

My point (as I tried to make above) is that we should not be too haste in painting a whole movement with just anecdotal data.

Also, we must distinguish between the Libertarian Party and the libertarian movement (of which Ron Paul appears to be a member but from the paleo-reactionary wing).

Oh yeah, I'm not a libertarian by the way.




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razors edge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
29. Do you actualy think Ron Paul
could be an effective libertarian agent of change as president, while surrounded by a sea of corporatist congress sellouts?

You sound more like someone afraid of a different opinion getting a foothold in the marketplace of ideas. You try linking him (without any links of your own)to subversive right-wing groups he has never endorsed.

I'm a big "D", little "l", and find allot of your comments uninformed and overly simplistic, like someone trying to define the entire Democratic platform with ten paragraphs on LBJ and Vietnam, which, I would guess killed more black men in disproportionate numbers to white men in the US population, than any other event in the twentieth century, and then using those statistics to prove the Democratic party is racist.

No political party will ever hold total sway and achieve it's idea of political nirvana, it just ain't gonna happen. But fear of the unknown and slanderous propaganda only serve to shut down debate and pigeon hole the mindset. Comments taken out of context and with no understanding or consideration to the point being made are very effective in political hit jobs, but I would be willing to bet $20.00 Ron Paul's comments on 95% of blacks in DC being criminals was in relation to his feelings that the laws that make them criminals are unjust to begin with, and not a racist stance as you have implied and so obviously failed to show.

Want to know what a real libertarian blog looks like? http://www.strike-the-root.com /

If these people scare you, then I suggest hiding under you bed for the rest of your life.

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