I've had it! There is Edwards and Dodd and fuck the rest of them

[Jersey Devil]

Reid, Pelosi, Clinton, Obama, fuck 'em all!

I don't think I've ever been this pissed off before at the Democrats and they are gonna have to do a shitload of 'splainin' before I'll ever trust any of them again.

[jillan]

1. Let's wait and see how they vote tomorrow.

And then get really really pissed off.:mad:

[ValiantBlue]

5. I concur

But somehow I have a sinking feeling I will be dissapointed. :(

[wryter2000]

45. Welcome to DU

:hi:

Not a good day to call oneself a Democrat. :(

[Jersey Devil]

49. Some have misinterpreted my post

I did not intend it to be an endorsement of Edwards or Dodd or that they were an all inclusive list of Dems fighting to do the right thing on Iraq. It was just that they have been the loudest of late and the kind of "leadership" that I would hope would be exhibited by Clinton, Obama, Pelosi, Reid and the other "leaders" who supposedly shape congressional opinions. Whether they vote for the supplemental or not it is clear to me that they have displayed no leadership on this issue.

As far as I am concerned if someone wants me to vote for them to be president they are going to have to be out front and strong on issues that I care about and not take the coward's way out by vacillating until the last possible minute. What kind of "leadership" is that for someone who wants to be president when they tell me that they still haven't made up their minds about ending this clusterfuck of a war as soon as possible?

And welcome to DU.

[Totally Committed]

46. They have set into motion, according to David Sirota, a plan to block us from knowing how they voted

See the DU thread about it here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x283292

See his entire article at:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/the-rise-of-the-dick-chen_b_49207.html

If they have their way, we will never kknow how ANY of them voted.

TC

[Heath Hatcher]

2. You do know Pelosi plans to vote no on this right?

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Yeh but the problem is that the speaker shoudl

not have agreed to this, PERIOD

[Jersey Devil]

8. Pelosi is equivocating with the rest of them

She could have shown leadership and said "no way" instead of pussyfooting her way around the issue by stating she is unsure. That might have made a difference in some votes. I don't call that "leadership" when she holds her finger up to the wind to see which way it is blowing. I call it cowardice.

[Heath Hatcher]

11. It dosen't matter now though

The fact is that garbage bill is on the floor and the speaker is voting it down

[Jersey Devil]

22. It matters a whole lot when you are "speaker"

A speaker is supposed to influence her party with her leadership. Her statements up until this morning were like lukewarm pudding.

[BootinUp]

3. Aren't Edwards and Dodd

both running for the nomination for Dem party Presidential candidate?

Maybe its just a coincidence.

[Jersey Devil]

7. You thought maybe I mentioned them because why?

Of course that's why I mentioned them. If Feingold was running for President I would have mentioned him too.

You want a President who would rather equivocate on principle than stand up and fight? Well, good luck to you.

[BootinUp]

17. No, you missed the point

Its called pandering to activists for votes in the primary.

[w4rma]

21. Who are Obama and Hillary pandering to when they don't fight against this bill?

I listened to Edwards today. He gets it. He understands the con. Most of the others don't, or support the con, or are scared to fight the con.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

26. Good question

[BootinUp]

27. Thats one of those trick questions I think.

Lets see, how should I respond...

:eyes:

[draft_mario_cuomo]

25. Who are Kerry and Feingold "pandering" to?

[BootinUp]

33. Mind if I correct your assumption?

I said no such thing about either of those fine men.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

13. Kerry and Feingold have also spoken out against capitulation

So some non-candidates have joined Edwards, Dodd, and Kucinich in opposing bending over for Bush.

[BootinUp]

23. Yes,

I am aware that some other Democrats have been consistently outspoken, the original post seemed to be trashing all Dems other than Edwards and Dodd, it was a bit much to swallow.

[JTFrog]

40. I was kinda shocked

when K.O. said with the exception of Edwards and Dodd that none of the rest of the Dems get it. I think he may have forgotten a few, tho he obviously influenced many.

I love K.O. and I usually agree with him 100%, but only agree 99% on this one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. May I sugest Kucinisch and Gravel too

as much as I disagree with the flat tax gravel proposes...

[Jersey Devil]

9. Certainly yes, and Feinstein and others but

I mentioned Edwards and Dodd because in my mind they are players in the presidential race. I am embarrassed not to have mentioned Kucinich, who I have come to admire more and more as time goes by.

[snowbear]

10. How's President Richardson sound?

My buddy.. my neighbor.. my schoolmate... my very own Jersey Devil is completely sold on him!!!!


"Scotty Gomez"

[Heath Hatcher]

14. Since Larissa brought it up

I must say screw the Devils GO PENGUINS!!!!

[jgraz]

16. Very quiet

What has he said about this bill?

[Jersey Devil]

18. Wrong "devil"

This is the one you want:

http://www.elktownship.com/myth.html

I have no idea where Richardson is on this issue. If he says that Bush should go take a flying leap and that the Dems should vote against the supplemental Iraq funding bill, then yes, I will support him.

[illinoisprogressive]

12. Obama is actually reading the bill. It is just his way to read and be thorough

He likes to have as much info before making a decision. it is just the way he is. He never rushes.

[Colobo]

19. I love how the former senator

who had the chance to make his point and vote against this failed war in 2002 didn't, is now acting though on the sidelines.

We need good judgement, and I like the fact that Obama is reading the damned thing before voting. Let's judge him on his vote.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

31. RFK supported the Vietnam war initially

Using the "2002 forever" standard set by Obama supporters, RFK would be incorrect in 1968 because he was wrong years before that. It is sad that Obama has to milk what happened half a decade ago so much instead of relying on actions to end the war in 2007. We are supposed to ignore his HRC-like voting record on the war since he joined the Senate because of his opposition to it in 2002?

The "sideline" argument has also been made by many Obama and HRC supporters to excuse their silence and lack of leadership on capitulation. It is ironic in case of Obama's supporters, whose main selling point for Obama is what he did on the sidelines 5 years ago.

[waiting for hope]

38. Good Point!

"It is ironic in case of Obama's supporters, whose main selling point for Obama is what he did on the sidelines 5 years ago."

Sooo right on the money.

[ChiciB1]

48. It's MY Feeling That For Those Who Attack Edwards Now Because He

DOESN'T "have" to vote right now, should take note that Obama DIDN'T "have" to vote for the War originally. IMO, it's the same thing! So if you support Obama and say he's "reading" the bill, then you should probably excuse Edwards too!

I'm not putting Obama down because I do like him, just pointing out the obvious! I KNOW what MY reaction is, so why don't they?? Reading the bill isn't really the point IMO.

[Cosmocat]

43. YEP ... Edwards gets on my nerves ...

in a BIG way with this particular issue ... I am OK with him, I will support him if he ends up being the nominee ... But, it REALLY burns me to no end when he fires off from the sidelines like he does, when he isn't in the game, when he WAS in the game, he voted FOR the Iraq resolution ...

[Jersey Devil]

20. Are you kidding?

Anyone who doesn't have a visceral reaction to say "Fuck you" to Bush over this bill doesn't deserve serious consideration.

[Colobo]

24. Visceral reactions are not the ones that should dictate your actions

They usually lead to disastrous results.

[Jersey Devil]

32. Oh, so let's tiptoe through the tulips

That's the kind of thinking that's gotten us into this mess in the first place and led to the almost unanimous support of this fucking fiasco of a war.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

29. Exactly. There should be no need to read focus groups or polls on this

[draft_mario_cuomo]

30. Perhaps. Or perhaps he is making political calculations?

He wasn't going to state "I can't say how I will vote. I have to see the focus group results first." Saying he is "reading" the bill is convenient. Feingold came out against capitulation on Tuesday night...

[ShortnFiery]

15. You're not alone Jersey Devil!

It's time to hit the streets and protest like we did during Vietnam.

Fearing that they'll lose their coveted Congressional Seats is the only thing that will change these gutless wonders. :grr:

[Jersey Devil]

28. Damned right! We have to let them know we are not gonna take this

lying down and that they are going to pay a price for their treachery.

Obama's people called me yesterday looking for money. Next time they call I am gonna tell them to shove it unless he votes against it.

[Peace Patriot]

34. So that leaves Edwards. Cuz Dodd was the guy who gave us "TRADE SECRET,"

PROPRIETARY vote counting, with programming code owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations.

You want to know when the fascist coup occurred here? October 2002, and I don't mean the IWR. I mean the "Help America Vote for Bush Act," with Christopher Dodd the lead Democrat on it, colluding with the biggest crooks in the Anthrax Congress--Tom Delay and Bob Ney, to fast-track these election theft machines and central tabulators all over the country, with $3.9 billion in boondoggle funding. He also was Kerry's adviser on electronic voting and told him that secret vote counting by rightwing Bushite corporations--one of them, Diebold, headed by a CEO pledged to Bush/Cheney's reelection, and the other, ES&S, brethren to Diebold, initially funded by rightwing 'christian' nutball billionaire Howard Ahmanson--was nothing to worry about.

Christopher Dodd is a snake-in-the-grass (moreso than most politicians.)

[LittleClarkie]

35. Golly, I'd be sore if I did that

Isn't there an easier way?

[Bullet1987]

36. Let's see how Obama votes tomarrow people...

If he votes for it...I'll take his name off my sig and be dissenchanted with him for a while. Because I'm tired of the political BS...

EDIT: Let's not forget that Obama rallied against the Military Commissions Act and various other BS bills. So let's not act like he's Mr. DLC.

[Greeby]

37. Excuse me?

But can you say Kucinich?

[Jersey Devil]

47. Yes, definitely credit Kucinich

I already apologized in this string for omitting him. He (along with a very few others like Feingold) have been consistent in their positions I realize, unlike others (Edwards, Kerry, etc) who have changed their minds. But I give them credit as well for having the courage to admit they were wrong.

Kucinich is interesting. He hardly registers in the polls (probably because he had no real campaign money) but anyone who actually sees or hears him speak is impressed with him. My wife, who is basically a Democrat but pays no real attention to politics, watches only Bill Maher on TV as a political show. She asked me a few weeks ago, "Who is this guy from Ohio who was on Maher? He was great."

[foerschie]

39. What about Bill Richardson?

He says he'll stop the war the day he takes office. Don't forget about him!

[pberq]

41. what about real Democrats like Kucinich, Feingold, Boxer, etc.?

[Jersey Devil]

50. Sure, include them too

See my post above. I did not intend to leave anyone out. I was just so ticked off that I mentioned the first ones who came to mind when I wrote the post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3279439&mesg_id=3279914

[justinrr1]

42. Edwards?

The guy who was still full speed ahead on Iraq in 04 and changes his mind on his way out the door. I like him but he was really stubbornly supportive of the war in 04. Why does he get a free pass and the others dont? His change of heart was just as politically motivated if not more than others.

[BeyondGeography]

44. Because lots of people are suckers

and where would politicians who have stood squarely on both sides of the same issue be without them?